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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
So what's the correct approach?
Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)? Cheers Jim K |
#2
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach? Define "modern lights". Brand new light fittings can come with a variety of electrical fittings. The most common method of fitting lights is to use a ceiling rose that has loop-in terminals. JGH |
#3
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 23/09/2012 15:13, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach? Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Commonly seen, but not nice... Choc box into void & similar? Yup, that is fine. Basically you want a proper enclosure round the joins. Wago boxes and terminals are nice. There are also some proper matin connector systems that allow the fixture to plug into the "rose" in the ceiling void) http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/re...questid=464292 -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#4
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 23/09/2012 15:13, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach? Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)? When I have to do this I usually use a junction box to replace the function of the terminals within the rose, positioned above the ceiling, either accessed from above or pushed up through as small a hole as possible (you can get pretty tiny junction boxes...) David |
#5
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:13:42 PM UTC+1, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach? Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)? Cheers Jim K Connections must be made inside something that can prevent spread of fire. Jbox and ceiling rose both do that. I'm far from convinced thermoplastics will, as they simply melt when hot. Given 69,000 house fires a year in the uk, with many deaths resulting, its one reg best not ignored. NT |
#6
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
wrote in message ... Jim K wrote: So what's the correct approach? Define "modern lights". Brand new light fittings can come with a variety of electrical fittings. The most common method of fitting lights is to use a ceiling rose that has loop-in terminals. Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. |
#7
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
I used these boxes and connectors when I re-did the upstairs lights.
They were a damn sight easier than faffing with traditional screw- terminal junction boxes. http://www.lineproducts.co.uk/shopat..._page=specials |
#8
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. So more expensive as well as taking longer. -- *How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#9
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 24/09/2012 10:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. So more expensive as well as taking longer. These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of wood nearby. |
#10
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
In article ,
stuart noble wrote: These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of wood nearby. I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things. -- *Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#11
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 24/09/2012 13:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , stuart noble wrote: These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of wood nearby. I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things. The last couple of lights that I fitted at home were fitted to a new ceiling - I planned ahead and not only placed battens, but installed round conduit boxes. SteveW |
#12
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 24/09/2012 13:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , stuart noble wrote: These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of wood nearby. I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things. Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it. I put a long threaded cup hook up through the lath and plaster, gave it a tug, and that was good enough for me. The fitting is heavy but, unless somebody swings on it....... I've had reasonable success with metal toggle fixings but that would require a hook mounted on a plate which I didn't have about my person |
#13
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
In article ,
stuart noble wrote: I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things. Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it. But there must have been access when the wiring was installed? -- *Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#14
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 24/09/2012 14:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , stuart noble wrote: I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things. Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it. But there must have been access when the wiring was installed? There is no doubt still access, just not easy access :-) |
#15
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. This senile person hasn't got a clue. |
#16
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. This senile person hasn't got a clue. Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world. -- *I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#17
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. This senile person hasn't got a clue. Just This senile person hasn't got a clue. |
#18
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On 25/09/2012 11:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. This senile person hasn't got a clue. Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world. Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#19
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? I bet that's why he uses string in his bathroom. |
#20
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
John Rumm wrote:
On 25/09/2012 11:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Drivel wrote: Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes. But wasteful of cable. This senile person hasn't got a clue. Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world. Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? My God! Essex wit. |
#21
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? I bet that's why he uses string in his bathroom. Dennis, now you have been told not to think too much. |
#22
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world. Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? Could be.;-) But reading between the lines its very likely he's never done any practical thing in his life. And now, of course, they wouldn't allow him to fiddle with the home wiring... -- *I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , John Rumm wrote: Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world. Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to use more cable? Could This man is senile. |
#24
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fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
On Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:15:06 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:13:42 PM UTC+1, Jim K wrote: Connections must be made inside something that can prevent spread of fire.. Jbox and ceiling rose both do that. I'm far from convinced thermoplastics will, as they simply melt when hot. Given 69,000 house fires a year in the uk, with many deaths resulting, its one reg best not ignored. Where does that statistic come from? 2010-11 statistics show 45,000 dwelling fires, of which 38,500 were accidental. Out of those, about 4000 were shown as being caused by electrical distribution (up from about 3000 in 2007, so obviously Part P is having an effect!). Still worth making sure it doesn't hapen to you, though. |
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