fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

So what's the correct approach?

Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)?
Cheers
Jim K

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach?

Define "modern lights". Brand new light fittings can come with a
variety of electrical fittings. The most common method of fitting
lights is to use a ceiling rose that has loop-in terminals.

JGH

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 23/09/2012 15:13, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach?

Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's
terminals,

Commonly seen, but not nice...

Choc box into void & similar?

Yup, that is fine. Basically you want a proper enclosure round the
joins. Wago boxes and terminals are nice. There are also some proper
matin connector systems that allow the fixture to plug into the "rose"
in the ceiling void)

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/re...questid=464292



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 23/09/2012 15:13, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach?

Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)?

When I have to do this I usually use a junction box to replace the
function of the terminals within the rose, positioned above the ceiling,
either accessed from above or pushed up through as small a hole as
possible (you can get pretty tiny junction boxes...)

David

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:13:42 PM UTC+1, Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach?



Taped up Terminal block poked up into void with feeds to fitting's terminals, Choc box into void & similar? All will work what's the official line(s)?

Cheers

Jim K

Connections must be made inside something that can prevent spread of fire. Jbox and ceiling rose both do that. I'm far from convinced thermoplastics will, as they simply melt when hot.

Given 69,000 house fires a year in the uk, with many deaths resulting, its one reg best not ignored.


NT

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

wrote in message
...
Jim K wrote:
So what's the correct approach?

Define "modern lights". Brand new light fittings can come with a
variety of electrical fittings. The most common method of fitting
lights is to use a ceiling rose that has loop-in terminals.

Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not the
ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting wire to
each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire from the
block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is common in old
flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing
about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

I used these boxes and connectors when I re-did the upstairs lights.
They were a damn sight easier than faffing with traditional screw-
terminal junction boxes.

http://www.lineproducts.co.uk/shopat..._page=specials

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not
the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting
wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire
from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is
common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is
well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the
accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable. So more expensive as well as taking longer.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 24/09/2012 10:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not
the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting
wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire
from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is
common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is
well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the
accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable. So more expensive as well as taking longer.


These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing
rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit
of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more
forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of
wood nearby.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing
rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit
of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more
forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of
wood nearby.

I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even
if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things.

--
*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 24/09/2012 13:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing
rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit
of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more
forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of
wood nearby.

I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even
if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things.

The last couple of lights that I fitted at home were fitted to a new
ceiling - I planned ahead and not only placed battens, but installed
round conduit boxes.

SteveW

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 24/09/2012 13:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:

These huge Ikea fittings are a PITA. Once people realise their existing
rose is hanging on not very much at all, fixing a hook can become a bit
of a nightmare. Fortunately the old lath and plaster ceilings are more
forgiving in that respect, and you're more likely to hit some form of
wood nearby.

I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light - even
if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you change things.


Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it.
I put a long threaded cup hook up through the lath and plaster, gave it
a tug, and that was good enough for me. The fitting is heavy but, unless
somebody swings on it.......
I've had reasonable success with metal toggle fixings but that would
require a hook mounted on a plate which I didn't have about my person

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light -
even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you
change things.


Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it.

But there must have been access when the wiring was installed?

--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 24/09/2012 14:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
I always run a batten between joists when fitting a central light -
even if just a ceiling rose. Saves so much time later on when you
change things.


Alas no easy access. Carpet and a room full of stuff above it.

But there must have been access when the wiring was installed?


There is no doubt still access, just not easy access :-)

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit, not
the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the lighting
wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside, then a wire
from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling rose. This is
common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch box and all is
well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose - all in the
accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable.

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit,
not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the
lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside,
then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling
rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch
box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose
- all in the accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable.

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who
has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do
the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit,
not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the
lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block
inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the
ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a
deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at
a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable.

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

Just

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On 25/09/2012 11:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit,
not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the
lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block inside,
then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to the ceiling
rose. This is common in old flats being rewired. Have a deep switch
box and all is well. No playing about with a loop at a ceiling rose
- all in the accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable.

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone who
has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box to do
the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world.

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not
to use more cable?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not to
use more cable?

I bet that's why he uses string in his bathroom.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

John Rumm wrote:
On 25/09/2012 11:12, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Some light switches have the loop in them with a terminal to suit,
not the ceiling rose. I thing Hagar do one. Some Sparks loop the
lighting wire to each light switch box with a terninal block
inside, then a wire from the block to the switch and a wire to
the ceiling rose. This is common in old flats being rewired.
Have a deep switch box and all is well. No playing about with a
loop at a ceiling rose - all in the accessible switch boxes.

But wasteful of cable.

This senile person hasn't got a clue.

Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone
who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch
box to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world.

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not
to use more cable?

My God! Essex wit.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

dennis@home wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as
not to use more cable?

I bet that's why he uses string in his bathroom.

Dennis, now you have been told not to think too much.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone
who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box
to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world.

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not
to use more cable?

Could be.;-) But reading between the lines its very likely he's never done
any practical thing in his life. And now, of course, they wouldn't allow
him to fiddle with the home wiring...

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Just shows you've never done a practical thing in your life. Anyone
who has knows how much extra cable is needed if you use the switch box
to do the loop in and out. But carry on in your fantasy world.

Perhaps dribble installs all his switch boxes on the ceiling so as not
to use more cable?

Could

This man is senile.

fitting modern lights in place of loop in roses
 

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:15:06 PM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
On Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:13:42 PM UTC+1, Jim K wrote:


Connections must be made inside something that can prevent spread of fire.. Jbox and ceiling rose both do that. I'm far from convinced thermoplastics will, as they simply melt when hot.

Given 69,000 house fires a year in the uk, with many deaths resulting, its one reg best not ignored.

Where does that statistic come from? 2010-11 statistics show 45,000 dwelling fires, of which 38,500 were accidental. Out of those, about 4000 were shown as being caused by electrical distribution (up from about 3000 in 2007, so obviously Part P is having an effect!).
Still worth making sure it doesn't hapen to you, though.