I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.

Caecilius wrote:

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.
I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable

I'd put in at least three coax cables, use foil and braid screened coax
cable

and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

F-Connectors

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

Guessing where people will want the sockets is the tricky bit, most
people probably just use WiFi for PCs/Laptops within the house, put a
couple with the TV aerials or internet connected TVs and games consoles

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

yep.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Openreach let builders do that, talk to them they'll supply cable and
conduit

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

Most people will want a phone line if only for broadband.

"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.

For you or someone else? Were I doing this from scratch I'd be tempted to
go for:

- Lots of CT100 equivalent TV/satellite/FM/DAB cable from rooms to central
point (and yes, F-plugs are what people use these days not BLs.).
- Similar with Ethernet (at least Cat 5e for 1GB)
- A few phone cables too (can use Cat5e if you like with suitable sockets -
which you could swap later if you stop using the phones and want another
ethernet socket..., or even a VoIP system).

- Bring them to a central point where they terminate, ideally at a patch
panel.
- Bring the phone line, cable feed, satellite, TV aerial feed to the same
point.
- Let the new owners connect together however they want using ADSL
modem/router, TV/Radio distribution box, satellite distribution etc or if
they're only using a small number of outputs, a simple connection cable.

If you use the right Satellite LNB (quattro I think they're called), you can
get a box which takes the 4 inputs and allows a large number of satellite
boxes/Sky/TVs to share them.

Paul DS.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:51:03 +0100, Caecilius wrote:

1. TV

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

Still 75R but the cabling has improved in quality, use CT100 or equivalent.
Standrad connector is also the F type (still cheap and cheerful but not a s
nasty as Belling Lee). These days also consider installing a dish for
satellite reception, they are cheap. I'd fit a Quad LNB (two for the living
room for Sky+ or other PVR and one each for the bedrooms). The cables from
the LNB would go to their respective destinations via the cable closet, the
same place that all the network cables end up. They can just be barrelled
through at this stage but it makes life easier to fit a multiswitch later.
I'd also run 4 CT100 cables to the living room as a PVR may well need two,
the TV another and you'll probably need terrestial there as well. Cable is
cheap and easy to fit at this stage perhaps make that 6...

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

Where ever you think you might need a network point fit two and cable them
back to a central point, preferably not in a room where some one might want
to sleep. The telly position may need several, TV, PVR, Wii, Xbox etc. 6
again?

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Yes keeps things simple. You could terminate some on BT style sockets but I
wouldn't just use adapters into the RJ45 sockets.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

You can provision the location for the master socket with cable and back box
etc. BT will install the master socket. As this is new build try and
determine where the line will arrive and make the master close to where that
is in the building run two Cat5e cables from there back to the cable closet
and make sure there is mains at the master BT socket as well. Enables you to
fit the ADSL or FTTC box at the master socket and send the filtered POTS
around the house without so much worry about local interference messing up
the ADSL. Wireless AP would be a seperate box mouted in the best place for
wirless coverage, in the loft? So a couple of Cat5e up there as well.

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

You need a land line for VOIP (well mostly). I'd mark down a place without
provision for a landline and as FTTC rolls out it will be needed for that.
Anybody who relies only a mobile hasn't thought it through properly.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Caecilius wrote:

I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

I did something like that once. The multiway outlets could be used as a
crude patch panel with 20cm leads.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Yep - terminate with Cat5e sockets and use adaptor for phones.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

A Dumb (unpowered) phone is essential in emergencies when the power fails
and the mobile base station goes out (happened everytime our village blacks
out) - only thing that works is a dumb handset powered from the batteries in
the BT exchange.

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

First - just put loads of conduit in (20mm oval will take 2 ELV cables, eg 2
Cat5e, aerial etc). Have an empty backbox next to every socket outlet (or at
least every 2nd) with conduit. If lifting the floor to thread cable is hard,
then buy a drum of Cat5e and thread cables to everything even if you do not
terminate - leave coil of cable in back of box and fit blanking plate.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.
--
Tim Watts

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:38:32 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:51:03 +0100, Caecilius wrote:

1. TV

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

Still 75R but the cabling has improved in quality, use CT100 or equivalent.
Standrad connector is also the F type (still cheap and cheerful but not a s
nasty as Belling Lee). These days also consider installing a dish for
satellite reception, they are cheap. I'd fit a Quad LNB (two for the living
room for Sky+ or other PVR and one each for the bedrooms). The cables from
the LNB would go to their respective destinations via the cable closet, the
same place that all the network cables end up. They can just be barrelled
through at this stage but it makes life easier to fit a multiswitch later.
I'd also run 4 CT100 cables to the living room as a PVR may well need two,
the TV another and you'll probably need terrestial there as well. Cable is
cheap and easy to fit at this stage perhaps make that 6...

You can't fit too many ;-) I found BL connectors are adequate for
teresstrial TV but F type are "better".

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

Where ever you think you might need a network point fit two and cable them
back to a central point, preferably not in a room where some one might want
to sleep. The telly position may need several, TV, PVR, Wii, Xbox etc. 6
again?

We decided not to install network points in the bedrooms or by the TV.
Big mistake. We hadn't anticpated needing so many PCs and that TVs
would want a network connection when I installed the cabling many
years ago.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Yes keeps things simple. You could terminate some on BT style sockets but I
wouldn't just use adapters into the RJ45 sockets.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

You can provision the location for the master socket with cable and back box
etc. BT will install the master socket. As this is new build try and
determine where the line will arrive and make the master close to where that
is in the building run two Cat5e cables from there back to the cable closet
and make sure there is mains at the master BT socket as well. Enables you to
fit the ADSL or FTTC box at the master socket and send the filtered POTS
around the house without so much worry about local interference messing up
the ADSL. Wireless AP would be a seperate box mouted in the best place for
wirless coverage, in the loft? So a couple of Cat5e up there as well.

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

You need a land line for VOIP (well mostly). I'd mark down a place without
provision for a landline and as FTTC rolls out it will be needed for that.
Anybody who relies only a mobile hasn't thought it through properly.

You may not get enough signal inside the house.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:03:17 +0100, Mark wrote:

We decided not to install network points in the bedrooms or by the TV.
Big mistake. We hadn't anticpated needing so many PCs and that TVs
would want a network connection when I installed the cabling many years
ago.

I agree. We have a total of 27 network points round the house (although
12 of them are in the 'office'). I put three in the living room; there is
a whole host of stuff near the TV, including a multicore cable to the
roof for antenna rotation, and a telephone socket.

I put them in the bedrooms and one turned out to be useful for an IP
camera (no, not what you think, Adam!). We had a vandalism issue outside
and the bedroom window was a good vantage point.

May not be worth it for the OP, but I ran multiple pairs to the front
door for doorphone/door release, terminating in the big central Krone box
for telecoms.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:51:03 +0100
Caecilius wrote:

I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.

Adding in some random thoughts:
If you are renting it out, tenants are capable of ruining anything you
build, and stealing anything you install. So have good notes of what you
have installed, and make sure it's on the inventory. Take photos of all
sockets, dishes etc.
Check it ALL before refunding deposit. Don't trust an agent to do this,
only you will know what you put in there.
Not all tenants are like this, of course, but plenty seem to think that
your stuff is fair game for them.
Been there, done that.
--
Davey.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Caecilius wrote:

I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

I did something like that once. The multiway outlets could be used as a
crude patch panel with 20cm leads.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Yep - terminate with Cat5e sockets and use adaptor for phones.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

A Dumb (unpowered) phone is essential in emergencies when the power fails
and the mobile base station goes out (happened everytime our village
blacks
out) - only thing that works is a dumb handset powered from the batteries
in
the BT exchange.

That assumes you actually need to call anyone in that situation.

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

First - just put loads of conduit in (20mm oval will take 2 ELV cables, eg
2
Cat5e, aerial etc). Have an empty backbox next to every socket outlet (or
at
least every 2nd) with conduit. If lifting the floor to thread cable is
hard,
then buy a drum of Cat5e and thread cables to everything even if you do
not
terminate - leave coil of cable in back of box and fit blanking plate.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.
--
Tim Watts

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:51:03 +0100, Caecilius
wrote:

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

In new builds BT may use an external NTE5 (XNTE) usually positioned
outside near the front door. However, despite only recently being
introduced the XNTE is now being discontinued once stocks are
exhausted as it doesn't support vDSL.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:27:35 +0100, Paul D Smith wrote:

If you use the right Satellite LNB (quattro I think they're called), you
can get a box which takes the 4 inputs and allows a large number of
satellite boxes/Sky/TVs to share them.

A multiswitch ideally it'll also take terrestial TV, DAB and FM as well as
the four feeds from the LNB and send the whole lot down each of it's outputs.
Some multiswitches can drive a Quad LNB to get the right signals on the right
inputs others require the connections to be be correct and the use of a
Quattro LNB.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:27:35 +0100, Paul D Smith wrote:

If you use the right Satellite LNB (quattro I think they're called), you
can get a box which takes the 4 inputs and allows a large number of
satellite boxes/Sky/TVs to share them.

A multiswitch ideally it'll also take terrestial TV, DAB and FM as well as
the four feeds from the LNB and send the whole lot down each of it's
outputs.
Some multiswitches can drive a Quad LNB to get the right signals on the
right
inputs others require the connections to be be correct and the use of a
Quattro LNB.

That's clever - how do you demultiplex the FM/DAB/TV/Sat at the other end or
do you still need an individual cable per input?

Paul DS.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:33:40 +0100, Davey
wrote:
If you are renting it out, tenants are capable of ruining anything you
build, and stealing anything you install. So have good notes of what you
have installed, and make sure it's on the inventory. Take photos of all
sockets, dishes etc.

I was hoping that by putting cables in the walls and installing RJ45
sockets there would be less liklihood of the tenants drilling holes
through walls or gluing cables to skirting boards.

I don't plan to install any equipment like routers, wifi APs, switches
Etc. That would be asking for trouble, and I'd end up owning the
problem when it goes wrong.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:55:17 +0100, Paul D Smith wrote:

A multiswitch ideally it'll also take terrestial TV, DAB and FM as well
as the four feeds from the LNB and send the whole lot down each of it's
outputs.

That's clever - how do you demultiplex the FM/DAB/TV/Sat at the other
end or do you still need an individual cable per input?

One cable per input is best but there is probably enough signal available to
passively split TTV, DAB and FM from one cable. The satellite stuff uses
volts and tones on the cable to control the signal it gets from the
multiswitch/LNB so best to leave those alone.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:23:22 +0100
Caecilius wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:33:40 +0100, Davey
wrote:
If you are renting it out, tenants are capable of ruining anything
you build, and stealing anything you install. So have good notes of
what you have installed, and make sure it's on the inventory. Take
photos of all sockets, dishes etc.

I was hoping that by putting cables in the walls and installing RJ45
sockets there would be less liklihood of the tenants drilling holes
through walls or gluing cables to skirting boards.

I don't plan to install any equipment like routers, wifi APs, switches
Etc. That would be asking for trouble, and I'd end up owning the
problem when it goes wrong.

Good plan. Be warned that even sockets can go for a walk!
Good luck; landlording isn't as easy as it used to be, as the rules
keep getting more onerous.
--
Davey.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:51:03 +0100, Caecilius wrote:

I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses the
same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago. Or
have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors with
something better?

Ours is all cat5e between a hub in the basement and the decoders in the
rooms (and also between the hub and the interface box on the wall
outside). That was all installed by the TV co though; I'm not sure how
happy they are if they come in to set up and find pre-existing cable.

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way socket
in one of the bedrooms.

Personally I'd run everything back to a common point somewhere and patch
as necessary - but if that were a loft I'd be a bit worried about network
hardware cooking in the summer.

cheers

Jules

Peter Parry wrote:

BT may use an external NTE5 (XNTE) usually positioned
outside near the front door. However, despite only recently being
introduced the XNTE is now being discontinued once stocks are
exhausted as it doesn't support vDSL.

0/10 for forward planning!

On 27/06/2012 08:27, Paul D Smith wrote:
"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.

For you or someone else? Were I doing this from scratch I'd be tempted
to go for:

- Lots of CT100 equivalent TV/satellite/FM/DAB cable from rooms to
central point (and yes, F-plugs are what people use these days not BLs.).

And a number of extra Cat5e or better - what's the betting that media
systems will move over more and more to networked systems?

- Similar with Ethernet (at least Cat 5e for 1GB)
- A few phone cables too (can use Cat5e if you like with suitable
sockets - which you could swap later if you stop using the phones and
want another ethernet socket..., or even a VoIP system).

Why not just install Ethernet sockets and a patch panel, so that any one
can be swapped between Ethernet and phone and the phone can be plugged
in with a simple adapter?

- Bring them to a central point where they terminate, ideally at a patch
panel.
- Bring the phone line, cable feed, satellite, TV aerial feed to the
same point.
- Let the new owners connect together however they want using ADSL
modem/router, TV/Radio distribution box, satellite distribution etc or
if they're only using a small number of outputs, a simple connection cable.

If you use the right Satellite LNB (quattro I think they're called), you
can get a box which takes the 4 inputs and allows a large number of
satellite boxes/Sky/TVs to share them.

Paul DS.

On Jun 27, 7:51*am, Caecilius wrote:
I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed
house, which will be rented out when it's complete, so I'm not looking
to do anything exotic or complex.

I'm thinking about TV, network and telephone. My thoughts a

1. TV

Standard 75 ohm coax from the loft to a socket in the living room.

I've not used TV for ages, so I assume the new digital TV still uses
the same cable and connectors as the old analog TV from 20+ years ago.
Or have they finally replaced those horrible belling-lee connectors
with something better?

Cable: use only CAI approved stuff suitable for satellite.

Connectors: F plugs and BLs are both used.


2. Network

CAT 5e from RJ45 sockets bedrooms and living room to a multi-way
socket in one of the bedrooms.

wireless is what's popular now

3. Telephone

Might as well use CAT 5e for this as well I guess, to avoid getting a
seperate reel of telephone grade cable.

cat5 is the right stuff now, as you're likely to have broadband
signals on the phone wiring

Can I install a BT master socket and just leave it to BT to connect
the A/B pair, or are only BT allowed to do that?

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

Any thoughts or pointers to guides Etc. would be welcome.

I'm looking for anything that would be seen as standard or desirable
in a small new build house without adding too much complexity. Bearing
in mind that cabling is dead easy at the moment because the
plasterboard isn't up yet.

Most tenants are clueless about such things, so whatever goes in needs
to work without any configuration.

Wiki has articles on LV wiring, tv aerial cable and networking.


NT

Check it ALL before refunding deposit. Don't trust an agent to do this,
only you will know what you put in there.
Not all tenants are like this, of course, but plenty seem to think that
your stuff is fair game for them.
Been there, done that.

Just take plenty of piccys of all rooms and contents when you rent it
out and give them copies. Then you can compare yours and the ones they
have if there is a dispute;!..


--
Tony Sayer

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...


--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:17:07 +0100
tony sayer wrote:

Check it ALL before refunding deposit. Don't trust an agent to do
this, only you will know what you put in there.
Not all tenants are like this, of course, but plenty seem to think
that your stuff is fair game for them.
Been there, done that.

Just take plenty of piccys of all rooms and contents when you rent it
out and give them copies. Then you can compare yours and the ones
they have if there is a dispute;!..



Yeah, that's what I said! Must be good advice. We had a friend acting as
agent, and we later discovered that he had been very lenient with the
inventory checks.

Davey.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return when the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power as
next time as it might not.

Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27/06/2012 07:51, Caecilius wrote:
I'll soon be wiring a new house, and I want to install some
communication cabling at the same time. It's a small two-bedroomed


I wrote sect in UK Selfbuild FAQ that may be of use.

For myself I decided on a Node zero position ...
Ran 2 x Cat6 to every room
Ran 2 x CT100 terminated on F-connector front plates

In Lounge I ran extra 2 x CT100 to every corner, plus 4 x Ct100 & 4 x
Cat 6 at position I wanted Home Cinema.


Put in extra Cat 6 in study.


I installed in Node zero an 8U minirack ... 2 x 24w patch panels ...
modified one of these so that 2 of the groups of 4 w sockets were
connected to telephone lines .. so I could patch around telephones, and
used PABX adapters on each outlet where I wanted a phone.
I used the modified BT front plates to separate out Data & POTS

I fitted 3 x 1U blank plates with 10 f-type bulkhead connectors ..
terminating all the CT100 there .. (30 seemed a lot at the time) I can
then patch any CT100 faceplate to my aerial distribution amp (Antiference)


All the CAT5/6 cable was free .. they were rewiring office, and after
each big ruin they would dump part used boxes .... my car went home with
many of these.


It's surprising how many CAT5 runs I have in use .... just put ina new
TV .. that has Ethernet connection, as does my PVR and my new Home
Cinema amp also takes one ..
Plus I use an extra 3 to provide aerial feeds to DVD recorder, PVr & TV
.... I could use loop in ... but then there are issue when they go into
standby ... this way any can be in very low consumption standby without
causing problems.



I also run 3 x Cat 5 to each external door .... these hook into Comfort
Alarm system (door keypad, bell, video camera)

Into every room I also put in a ceiling Cat5 above each door - wired to
PIR detector and back to Comfort system.


I also put in a Cat6 run to each room ... currently only a faceplate at
moment, along with a pair of speaker cables .... intent is to have
distributed audio throughout the house ... an MP3 jukebox & radio ...
just not decide what to put in yet.

External I also added Cat5 runs to 8 separate PIR external sensors ..
again back to comfort system.
In 4 location I have also put in a CT100 plus 6 core flex ... currently
just to wall mount boxes - intent is to install video camera back to web
accessible Digital recorder.

Although I had included the built in double garage and wired accordingly
............ I had missed out, since main build went in I have also added
a separate quad garage outbuilding ... if I had thought in advance I
could have allowed CT100 & Cat5 runs for that.


All in, a large quantity of cable into Node zero .... but all needed :-)

In article , Davey
scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:17:07 +0100
tony sayer wrote:

Check it ALL before refunding deposit. Don't trust an agent to do
this, only you will know what you put in there.
Not all tenants are like this, of course, but plenty seem to think
that your stuff is fair game for them.
Been there, done that.

Just take plenty of piccys of all rooms and contents when you rent it
out and give them copies. Then you can compare yours and the ones
they have if there is a dispute;!..



Yeah, that's what I said! Must be good advice. We had a friend acting as
agent, and we later discovered that he had been very lenient with the
inventory checks.

Davey.

As most all of them are as well as replacing any appliance with new
rather then seeing what's wrong with it etc...
--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier, mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or what
network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine. OK their might be
times when calls break up a bit but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return when the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for
them;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:51:30 +0100
tony sayer wrote:

In article , Davey
scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:17:07 +0100
tony sayer wrote:

Check it ALL before refunding deposit. Don't trust an agent to do
this, only you will know what you put in there.
Not all tenants are like this, of course, but plenty seem to think
that your stuff is fair game for them.
Been there, done that.

Just take plenty of piccys of all rooms and contents when you rent
it out and give them copies. Then you can compare yours and the
ones they have if there is a dispute;!..



Yeah, that's what I said! Must be good advice. We had a friend
acting as agent, and we later discovered that he had been very
lenient with the inventory checks.

Davey.

As most all of them are as well as replacing any appliance with new
rather then seeing what's wrong with it etc...

That last bit worked in our favour when we were tenants in the US, the
clothes dryer was making loud screeching noises and not running, the
landlord (owner's brother-in-law) just bought a new one, and was happy
when I said I would keep the old one. It needed a new belt idler, and
for $10 I had a good working machine, which travelled with us to
several places.
So sometimes things work out ok!
--
Davey.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier,

I get untimed calls for 9c for the entire call anywhere in the
country and to britain, the US, china and singapore too.

mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality
audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or
what network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine.

Yeah, I don’t get anything like that with any of the Nokia 5110.
6310 or N95 8GB.

OK their might be times when calls break up a bit

Doesn’t happen here.

but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Don’t get that here. You either have coverage or you don’t.

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return when
the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after
power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies
randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power
as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for them;!...

I pay **** all for mine.

In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier,

I get untimed calls for 9c for the entire call anywhere in the
country and to britain, the US, china and singapore too.

Save me looking it up whats that in GBP?..


mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality
audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or
what network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine.

Yeah, I dont get anything like that with any of the Nokia 5110.
6310 or N95 8GB.

OK their might be times when calls break up a bit

Doesnt happen here.

Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Dont get that here. You either have coverage or you dont.

And in between you have signal break-ups..

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return when
the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after
power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies
randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power
as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for them;!...

I pay **** all for mine.

You don't have teenage children I'll bet;?..


--
Tony Sayer

Bancom Communications U.K. Tel+44 1223 566577 Fax+44 1223 566588

4 Wingate close, Cambridge, England, CB2 9HW E-Mail

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier,

I get untimed calls for 9c for the entire call anywhere in the
country and to britain, the US, china and singapore too.

Save me looking it up whats that in GBP?..

5.8p, 6p basically.


mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality
audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data
to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or
what network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine.

Yeah, I dont get anything like that with any of the Nokia 5110.
6310 or N95 8GB.

OK their might be times when calls break up a bit

Doesnt happen here.

Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they dont, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you dont.

but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Dont get that here. You either have coverage or you dont.

And in between you have signal break-ups..

Nope. There is no in between, you either have coverage or you dont.

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return
when
the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after
power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies
randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power
as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for
them;!...

I pay **** all for mine.

You don't have teenage children I'll bet;?..

We have capped plans if you want them so you only
pay a fixed amount that doesnt change based on use.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don’t, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don’t.

Wrong. The data is still tranmitted using RF. The fact that the
underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don't, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don't.

Wrong.

Nope.

The data is still tranmitted using RF.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

The fact that the underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.

Wrong, as always.

The GSM digital cliff happens because with the GSM system, even
when the base can hear the handset fine, if its too far away as
determined by the round trip delay, it ignores it completely.

In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier,

I get untimed calls for 9c for the entire call anywhere in the
country and to britain, the US, china and singapore too.

Save me looking it up whats that in GBP?..

5.8p, 6p basically.

1.5 pence here, or a bit less with some carriers....


mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality
audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data
to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or
what network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine.

Yeah, I dont get anything like that with any of the Nokia 5110.
6310 or N95 8GB.

OK their might be times when calls break up a bit

Doesnt happen here.

Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they dont, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you dont.

No you don't you do have a transition period. Do you have digital TV as
yet with indifferent signals that go blocky and pixellated..


but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Dont get that here. You either have coverage or you dont.

And in between you have signal break-ups..

Nope. There is no in between, you either have coverage or you dont.

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return
when
the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently after
power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies
randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the power
as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for
them;!...

I pay **** all for mine.

You don't have teenage children I'll bet;?..

We have capped plans if you want them so you only
pay a fixed amount that doesnt change based on use.


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don't, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don't.

Wrong.

Nope.

The data is still tranmitted using RF.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

The fact that the underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.

Wrong, as always.

The GSM digital cliff happens because with the GSM system, even
when the base can hear the handset fine, if its too far away as
determined by the round trip delay, it ignores it completely.

Thats not quite a same thing as was implied there are areas within the
otherwise usable service area of a base station that are difficult owing
to topography..

Do you have any hilly areas like say the Welsh valley's?..
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article o.uk,
Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:18:26 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Is it actually worth installing telephone, or does everyone just
use
mobiles or VOIP now?

landline phone please

+1

Done away with that, much cheaper and better...

Mobiles "much cheaper and better..."?

We get our BB via VM co-axial (20 meg to go up to 40 before long) )and
I
must say its been very good and reliable. We also have a backup feed
to
that via a radio link. We now use VoIP for the landline phone and its
been excellent. If for any reason the BB should fall down it will
automatically divert to the mobile which is on 24/7. I can now
configure
a lot on this system and get charged sod all line rental around a quid
a
month ported our number, calls that are charged by the second and
cheaper than most any other carrier,

I get untimed calls for 9c for the entire call anywhere in the
country and to britain, the US, china and singapore too.

Save me looking it up whats that in GBP?..

5.8p, 6p basically.

1.5 pence here, or a bit less with some carriers....

Not for the entire cost of the call, untimed, for hours if you want to.

mobile to landline rates much
cheaper and best of all no "connection charge"


I can access my account for billing and see who has called etc if
required, and their VoIPfone customer service is streets quicker than
the major carriers. And best of all they have a very useful divert
line...

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/Voipfone_1...sales_Tool.mp4


Not IMHO, there is an awful delay, the codecs produce terrible quality
audio,
that's assuming the signal is strong and stable enough for enough data
to
arrive for the audio to be reconstructed in the first place.


I really don't know what the service is like up there Dave or
what network your on but I use a Nokia 6303 and its fine.

Yeah, I dont get anything like that with any of the Nokia 5110.
6310 or N95 8GB.

OK their might be times when calls break up a bit

Doesnt happen here.

Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they dont, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you dont.

No you don't you do have a transition period.

Nope.

Do you have digital TV as yet

Yep, they have just turned the analog TV off.

with indifferent signals that go blocky and pixellated..

Nope, much better than analog TV.

but its very few and far between and
only these days right out in the country...

Dont get that here. You either have coverage or you dont.

And in between you have signal break-ups..

Nope. There is no in between, you either have coverage or you dont.

Power failure at local cell and the service stops and may not return
when
the
power comes back. One cell around here was off for weeks recently
after
power
problems. That's not the first time that power glitches have knocked
out
cells for a while (days) after the power has been restored. Varies
randomly
by network so you can't say that network X will come back with the
power
as
next time as it might not.

Well seeing where you live and how remote that is I expect you'll have
to accept that. Here mains failures around three in 10 years one of
them
caused by the builders next door and I've yet to see major faults
around
this way of the main mobile carriers..


Mobiles should be treated with a lucky if it works and pure
convenience
attitude and should not be relied upon.


Well they work for us and we use them all the time and I sometimes
wish
they hadn't been invented as I have to pay the bl^^dy bills for
them;!...

I pay **** all for mine.

You don't have teenage children I'll bet;?..

We have capped plans if you want them so you only
pay a fixed amount that doesnt change based on use.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"Mark" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don't, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don't.

Wrong.

Nope.

The data is still tranmitted using RF.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

The fact that the underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.

Wrong, as always.

The GSM digital cliff happens because with the GSM system, even
when the base can hear the handset fine, if its too far away as
determined by the round trip delay, it ignores it completely.

Thats not quite a same thing as was implied

Yes it is. And it wasn’t implied, it was stated explicitly.

there are areas within the otherwise usable service area
of a base station that are difficult owing to topography..

That’s a different matter entirely.

Do you have any hilly areas like say the Welsh valley's?..

Corse we do.

On 27/06/2012 08:27, Paul D Smith wrote:


For you or someone else?

Oh gawd, that's my beef....

Someone related to a friend of my mum heard about me skills in IT and
installation whatnot, and had heard about this distributed network, TV
and telephone malarky. He was gutting and almost rebuilding his house, a
geeky friend of his had done this kind of thing, so this fellow though
it would be a must to have it done as well.

I got an emergency call a couple of days before the plasterboard was
going up, would I help him thread through some cables? He hadn't a clue
what was going where, so I concocted a plan and flood wired the place
with 2 pairs of CAT5e and 4 lots of CT100 to each room. At the patch
panel he could decide what was going to be phone and what ethernet.

And then the daft questions started.... he really had no clue what he
was meant to do with it. Distributed media, VOIP, security, Satellite
TV, multi-switches, servers, routers etc. Whoosh.... The labeled patch
panel he found particulary confusing. In and out. Phone or LAN, Whoosh......

I pointed him (a youngish engineer type) at a few websites and left him
to it. Perhaps his geeky friend will aid him in a bit of spoon feeding.

I've done me bit. A system like that I would really enjoy learning,
tweaking, and configuring. With him, hopeless - he wants callout... :-(

--
Adrian C

In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don't, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don't.

Wrong.

Nope.

The data is still tranmitted using RF.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

The fact that the underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.

Wrong, as always.

The GSM digital cliff happens because with the GSM system, even
when the base can hear the handset fine, if its too far away as
determined by the round trip delay, it ignores it completely.

Thats not quite a same thing as was implied

Yes it is. And it wasnt implied, it was stated explicitly.

No these are two differing things. One is where it won't work at all and
one where there is insufficient signal and too high a BER (bit error
rate).

Contrary to what people might believe there isn't a clean transition
between perfectly OK to not OK at all. I don't know if you've
experienced it but on a Broadcast DAB system a phenomena known as
"bubbling mud" happens when reception is in this transition phase.
Mobile phones have been doing just that since the GSM system was
implemented...



there are areas within the otherwise usable service area
of a base station that are difficult owing to topography..

Thats a different matter entirely.

Do you have any hilly areas like say the Welsh valley's?..

Corse we do.

It's course BTW...

Then you'll have pockets of poor reception or rather communication..
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Rod Speed
scribeth thus


"Mark" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:17:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
-snip-
Course it must a country of that size I'm sure they don't bother to
cover all of it do they?.

No they don't, but because of the digital cliff seen
with GSM you either have coverage or you don't.

Wrong.

Nope.

The data is still tranmitted using RF.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

The fact that the underlying data is encoded digitally is irrelevant.

Wrong, as always.

The GSM digital cliff happens because with the GSM system, even
when the base can hear the handset fine, if its too far away as
determined by the round trip delay, it ignores it completely.

Thats not quite a same thing as was implied

Yes it is. And it wasnt implied, it was stated explicitly.

No these are two differing things. One is where it won't work at all and
one where there is insufficient signal and too high a BER (bit error
rate).

Contrary to what people might believe there isn't a
clean transition between perfectly OK to not OK at all.

There is with the ALL OF THE COUNTRY which was clearly what
was being discussed in the original comment still right at the top.

I don't know if you've experienced it but on a Broadcast DAB
system a phenomena known as "bubbling mud" happens when
reception is in this transition phase.

The GSM digital cliff is something else entirely.

Mobile phones have been doing just that
since the GSM system was implemented...

Separate issue entirely to the digital cliff being discussed.

there are areas within the otherwise usable service area
of a base station that are difficult owing to topography..

Thats a different matter entirely.

Do you have any hilly areas like say the Welsh valley's?..

Corse we do.

It's course BTW...

Nope.

Then you'll have pockets of poor reception or rather communication..

Nothing to do with what you originally were talking about.

Contrary to what people might believe there isn't a
clean transition between perfectly OK to not OK at all.

There is with the ALL OF THE COUNTRY which was clearly what
was being discussed in the original comment still right at the top.

I don't know if you've experienced it but on a Broadcast DAB
system a phenomena known as "bubbling mud" happens when
reception is in this transition phase.

The GSM digital cliff is something else entirely.

The digital "cliff" isn't that well defined. Some think its the point
where bit errors start to occur, some think its when all the bits fail.

In any digital communications system thats anywhere near practical there
will be a system for error correction. Especially using such a variable
as radio. This can result in what's described as pixelation on a TV
system or a garbled sound on a radio or voice band channel.

If the errors get too great then the radio or TV can do a full mute if
its designed to do so.

I'm sure there are a lot on here who have this experience with digital
TV reception of pix freezes and pixelation which is distracting, but it
doesn't usually case a complete pix mute. If it did for a lot of people
digital TV reception and radio for that matter would be neigh on
impossible..

And for that matter mobile comms too..



Mobile phones have been doing just that
since the GSM system was implemented...

Separate issue entirely to the digital cliff being discussed.

there are areas within the otherwise usable service area
of a base station that are difficult owing to topography..

Thats a different matter entirely.

Do you have any hilly areas like say the Welsh valley's?..

Corse we do.

It's course BTW...

Nope.

Well up here it is...


Then you'll have pockets of poor reception or rather communication..

Nothing to do with what you originally were talking about.

Not what you understand..
--
Tony Sayer