A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution, I'm not so sure and I told
him so, but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services have to
pay the toll to get on these roads?

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!

On Feb 18, 10:22*am, Huge wrote:
On 2012-02-18, Brian Gaff wrote:
but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services have to
pay the toll to get on these roads?

No idea.

Certainly never if on a blue-light.
Helicopters & video cameras do not either.

There are race tracks up and down the country where you can go along,
pay a small fee, sign a waver, and go around. There is instruction
available, usually an ambulance... coroner... undertaker available
too. Race track use will get 8-9mpg on many cars.

There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

There is no excuse for being a prat.

On 18/02/2012 08:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution,

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which is the authority for speed
limits, applies to 'any length of highway or of any other road to which
the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes',
so he will find out he is wrong if he tries.

I'm not so sure and I told
him so, but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services have to
pay the toll to get on these roads?

Emergency services and Motability vehicles are exempt from tolls on the
M6 toll road and, I would expect at least the emergency services would
be exempt on any other toll road. Any likely to use the M6 toll road or
Dartford crossing probably has the appropriate electronic tag fitted, so
they can pass straight through the toll booths.

Colin Bignell

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution, I'm not so sure and I
told him so, but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services
have to pay the toll to get on these roads?


Europe is full of toll roads where the usual laws apply.
They even check the time on your ticket to make sure you haven't arrived so
soon that you must have been speeding.
Why does this person think that UK toll roads are different?
Perhaps he also thinks no MOT, no insurance, no driving licence, lets give
the 14 year olds a chance to blast along at 100mph because they can't stop
me.

If there is some bizzarre legislation which makes toll roads private and not
subject to the Road Traffic Act or whatever it is nowadays I would be
interested in supporting evidence.
Which I could then forward to the Daily Mail :-)

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
..
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

Colin Bignell

On 18 Feb 2012 10:22:31 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2012-02-18, Brian Gaff wrote:
A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution, I'm not so sure and I told
him so,

Your friend is an idiot.

but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services have to
pay the toll to get on these roads?

No idea.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg-mozGsU



--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:35:53 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:


Emergency services and Motability vehicles are exempt from tolls on the
M6 toll road and, I would expect at least the emergency services would
be exempt on any other toll road. Any likely to use the M6 toll road or
Dartford crossing probably has the appropriate electronic tag fitted, so
they can pass straight through the toll booths.

Story is that when the police have a session with a speed camera on
the M6 toll they get good results because of the number of people who
think they can got at any speed along it. Can't think where I got that
from.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:30:37 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution, I'm not so sure and I told
him so, but it does make me think, do Police and emergency services have to
pay the toll to get on these roads?

Brian


http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=45832


On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

HN

On Feb 18, 11:39*am, Nightjar
wrote:
On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

99mph, not that fast and whilst drag is higher it is not that much
higher than 75-80mph.
It is as you pass 140mph that drag takes over, bhp required rockets
and mpg begins to collapse.

On Feb 18, 2:18*pm, "js.b1" wrote:
On Feb 18, 11:39*am, Nightjar
wrote:

On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas..
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

99mph, not that fast and whilst drag is higher it is not that much

higher than 75-80mph.
It is as you pass 140mph that drag takes over, bhp required rockets
and mpg begins to collapse.

The main form of drag varies as the square of speed. There is no magic
number at which it suddenly happens.
As you are an idiot, that means if you go twice as fast you get four
times the drag.
If you go three times as fast, you get nine times the drag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

In article ,
H. Neary wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/02/2012 17:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
H. wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

The law applies to any road to which the public has access, which does
include supermarket car parks.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:16:48 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
H. Neary wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

True!

It is actually a religious shrine. A place of miracles!
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

When it rains they have been known to jog the 25yds or so to the
store.

HN

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
.
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

Surely , nobody goes that slow on an Autobahn

--
geoff

H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

On Feb 18, 6:07*pm, H. Neary nearyh @clara.co.uk wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:16:48 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

wrote:
In article ,
* H. Neary nearyh @clara.co.uk wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

True!

It is actually a religious shrine. A place of miracles!
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

When it rains they have been known to jog the 25yds or so to the
store.

HN

LOL !!

On 18/02/2012 18:12, geoff wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
.
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

Surely , nobody goes that slow on an Autobahn

I was sightseeing.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:03:24 -0800 (PST), jgharston
wrote:

H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

I have seen the paralympics, and none of the Asda sprinters seem to
bear much resemblance, for a start the Asda sprinters seem to favour
4X4's rather than manually powered traction units favoured by the
paralympians.

The idea of a disabled car park is to provide room for those with
artificial aids or limited mobility to get to and from their vehicles.

I would expect loonies, people with limited hearing or ugly mothers in
law to make do with a 50 yard walk like the rest of us.

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

HN

On Feb 18, 4:51*pm, harry wrote:
It is as you pass 140mph that drag takes over, bhp required rockets
and mpg begins to collapse.

The main form of drag varies as the square of speed. There is no magic
number at which it suddenly happens.

What? I do not imply that there is...

At 99mph only 64 bhp is needed - hence mpg is 32.
At 140mph drag is SO much higher that bhp required rockets and mpg
begins to collapse.

56mph may only require 8 bhp, with mpg of 58.
100mph however requires 64 bhp, with mpg of 32.
140mph requires over 171 bhp, with mpg of 17.
250mph requires over 1000 bhp, with mpg of 5.

As cars pass a 140mph top speed so bhp rockets & mpg collapses,
including around town (the 1000bhp car for example only delivers 15mpg
on the urban cycle). Aesthetically people are not too keen on a super
low coefficient of drag vehicles, but at some point that will change
as oil company pricing bites.


As you are an idiot,

You are a ****ing moron. Try using batteries instead of PV.


that means if you go twice as fast you get four times the drag.
If you go three times as fast, you get nine times the drag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

Drag at 99mph is not particularly high in modern cars, drag past
140mph most certainly is and bhp must rocket to compensate.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:36 -0000, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:03:24 -0800 (PST), jgharston
wrote:

H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

I have seen the paralympics, and none of the Asda sprinters seem to
bear much resemblance, for a start the Asda sprinters seem to favour
4X4's rather than manually powered traction units favoured by the
paralympians.

The idea of a disabled car park is to provide room for those with
artificial aids or limited mobility to get to and from their vehicles.

I would expect loonies, people with limited hearing or ugly mothers in
law to make do with a 50 yard walk like the rest of us.

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

HN


My partner has a form of disability that could not be identified by X-rays
(vision or machine), MRI, or pretty much anything else. But they severely
impact on her ability to walk across a car park - or anywhere else,
especially outdoors. (Mostly she can just about manage indoors.) However,
whilst I am sure she would be granted one, she has decided not to ask for
a blue badge, partly because she feels so many others are more deserving
than she.

There are plenty of people who grossly misuse blue badges. But there are
plenty in whom the disability for which a blue badge has been granted is
anything but obvious.

--
Rod

"H. Neary" wrote in message
...

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"H. Neary" wrote in message
.. .

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.





We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.


A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.

Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!

In message , polygonum
writes
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:36 -0000, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:03:24 -0800 (PST), jgharston
wrote:

H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

I have seen the paralympics, and none of the Asda sprinters seem to
bear much resemblance, for a start the Asda sprinters seem to favour
4X4's rather than manually powered traction units favoured by the
paralympians.

The idea of a disabled car park is to provide room for those with
artificial aids or limited mobility to get to and from their vehicles.

I would expect loonies, people with limited hearing or ugly mothers in
law to make do with a 50 yard walk like the rest of us.

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

HN


My partner has a form of disability that could not be identified by
X-rays (vision or machine), MRI, or pretty much anything else. But
they severely impact on her ability to walk across a car park - or
anywhere else, especially outdoors. (Mostly she can just about manage
indoors.) However, whilst I am sure she would be granted one, she has
decided not to ask for a blue badge, partly because she feels so many
others are more deserving than she.

There are plenty of people who grossly misuse blue badges. But there
are plenty in whom the disability for which a blue badge has been
granted is anything but obvious.

New system now being introduced. Badges which have photo and less easily
forged. Over 80s will get automatic renewal if they already have a
badge, those younger will be subject to reassessment.
Over 90s qualify automatically.
There is a 34 page booklet on rules and regulations on use of blue badge
- that's bigger than the instruction manual for a video recorder/mobile
phone/digital TV in seven languages!!
--
hugh

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:30:37 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

A friend of mine reckons he can use toll roads in this country to open up
his high speed motor without fear of prosecution,

There's no limit on stupidity, so tell him to go ahead. Remember to
post the outcome.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:36 +0000, H. Neary
wrote:

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Umm.. how about a heart condition or one lung? How about chronic
arthritis? How about, .... etc?

There's no shortage of conditions that could allow the driver to 'have
a good day' when he/she can actually walk fine without displaying the
signs of pain or disablement that you are scanning for in your cursory
examination.
However, I know that some do take the ****; especially those who are
out in the disabled person's car for essential supplies. They're not
supposed to do their own shopping at the same time - or at least, use
disabled spaces when they do.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:36 +0000, H. Neary
wrote:

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Umm.. how about a heart condition or one lung? How about chronic
arthritis? How about, .... etc?

There's no shortage of conditions that could allow the driver to 'have
a good day' when he/she can actually walk fine without displaying the
signs of pain or disablement that you are scanning for in your cursory
examination.
However, I know that some do take the ****; especially those who are
out in the disabled person's car for essential supplies. They're not
supposed to do their own shopping at the same time - or at least, use
disabled spaces when they do.

on the other hand, when I, as a driver for a local charity, take someone to
the local hospital, I am permitted to use one of the Disabled Only spaces at
the hospital while I wait - not that I can ever find one free - so I go down
the road to Tesco.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

On Feb 18, 9:19*pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
.. .

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.

We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? *The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.

That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.

A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.

The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.

Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!

and?

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:42:57 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Feb 18, 9:19*pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
.. .

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.

We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? *The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.

That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.

A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.

The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.

Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!

and?
How then does the extra space help the heart patient?

You still miss the point.

HN

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 18/02/2012 18:12, geoff wrote:
In message , Nightjar
writes
On 18/02/2012 10:51, js.b1 wrote:
.
There is the german autobahn a short trip away. They have unrestricted
autobahn use - wrapped up in very restrictive and punitive fine areas.
High speed use will get 14-18mpg on many cars.

I was getting around 32mpg at a steady 160kph.

Surely , nobody goes that slow on an Autobahn

I was sightseeing.

What, windmills?

Actually I love it when you're in a line of vehicles doing 120-130 and
some fat german in his big mercedes comes up behind and flashes you when
you can't go anywhere - hit the brakes and watch him **** himself then
get more aggressive

Then comes the road works with a 120kmh limit, they all slow down
leaving it clear for me to zoom past

and poor old fritz in his big mercedes ...

LMAA - as they say


--
geoff

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
H. Neary wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

But (ICBW) the laws of the road still apply

--
geoff

On 18/02/2012 19:03, jgharston wrote:
H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

It's not just physical ability. Some people have mental health problems
that necessitate spaces close to the entrance, as disabled spaces
generally are.

SteveW

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 18/02/2012 19:03, jgharston wrote:
H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

It's not just physical ability. Some people have mental health problems
that necessitate spaces close to the entrance, as disabled spaces
generally are.

"Doctor, I need a blue badge"

"What for"

"I suffer from Lazicus ****ticus"

--
geoff

H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:42:57 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Feb 18, 9:19 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
...
Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?
Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.
We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.
That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.
A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.
The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.
Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!
and?
How then does the extra space help the heart patient?

You still miss the point.

The extra space is for the wheelchair and users of other mobility aids.
The closeness to the store entrance is to help those who can't walk far,
including, but not limited to those with pneumoconioisis or other lung
diseases (Miners' lung and Farmers' lung are two common, non jargon
names), and heart problems. Did you not notice the way that once they
got into the dry, your "jogging" disabled people stopped for a breather
on the seats just inside the store doors?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:04:01 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 18/02/2012 19:03, jgharston wrote:
H. Neary wrote:
You should see all the diabled people that are miraculously "cured"
when they stop in the disabled car park.

Oo, wonderful, you have temporal x-ray vision and determine
a person's physcal ability by just looking at them from a
distance.

JGH

It's not just physical ability. Some people have mental health problems
that necessitate spaces close to the entrance, as disabled spaces
generally are.

SteveW

OMG

Roads populated by agrophobics that freak out if they are out in the
open.

Methinks any fruitcake that is incapable of walking a few yards over
open ground is definately not stable enough to drive.

HN

geoff wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
H. Neary wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

But (ICBW) the laws of the road still apply

I've seen many signs in car parks warning people that the Road Traffic
laws apply in the car park.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:17:04 +0000, John Williamson
wrote:

H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:42:57 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Feb 18, 9:19 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
...
Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?
Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.
We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.
That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.
A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.
The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.
Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!
and?
How then does the extra space help the heart patient?

You still miss the point.

The extra space is for the wheelchair and users of other mobility aids.
The closeness to the store entrance is to help those who can't walk far,
including, but not limited to those with pneumoconioisis or other lung
diseases (Miners' lung and Farmers' lung are two common, non jargon
names), and heart problems. Did you not notice the way that once they
got into the dry, your "jogging" disabled people stopped for a breather
on the seats just inside the store doors?

No



Actually some of the spaces for the disabled are further away than the
standard spaces at my local Asda. Guess what, every user seems to
manage to display a blue badge on those spaces, whereas those opposite
the entrance seem to be taken up by what most uninformed individuals
would assume are fit healthy people who are just too embarassed to
display a badge advertising their condition.

HN

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:52:26 -0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , polygonum
writes
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:36 -0000, wrote:


My partner has a form of disability that could not be identified by
X-rays (vision or machine), MRI, or pretty much anything else. But
they severely impact on her ability to walk across a car park - or
anywhere else, especially outdoors. (Mostly she can just about manage
indoors.) However, whilst I am sure she would be granted one, she has
decided not to ask for a blue badge, partly because she feels so many
others are more deserving than she.

There are plenty of people who grossly misuse blue badges. But there
are plenty in whom the disability for which a blue badge has been
granted is anything but obvious.

New system now being introduced. Badges which have photo and less easily
forged. Over 80s will get automatic renewal if they already have a
badge, those younger will be subject to reassessment.
Over 90s qualify automatically.
There is a 34 page booklet on rules and regulations on use of blue badge
- that's bigger than the instruction manual for a video recorder/mobile
phone/digital TV in seven languages!!

Hadn't heard of the over-90 bit. Which is actually pertinently crazy. My
to-be-90-in-a-few-weeks mother can walk from car to supermarket with far
fewer issues than my partner!

--
Rod

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:16:48 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
H. Neary wrote:
On the plus side, as far as I am aware no one has been done for
speeding on my local Asda car park.

Probably isn't defined as a highway anyway.

Irrelevant. Anywhere that the public has access is subject to the RTA,
with specific exemptions for motor sport events organised by
recognised bodies - autotests often take place in car parks for
instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotesting

Road Traffic Act 1991

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/contents

The Motor Vehicles (Off Road Events) Regulations 1995

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

On Feb 18, 10:52*pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:42:57 -0800 (PST), thirty-six









wrote:
On Feb 18, 9:19*pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
.. .

Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?

Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.

We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? *The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.

That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. *Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.

A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.

The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.

Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!

and?

How then does the extra space help the heart patient?



You still miss the point.

I've rarely seen a wheelchair user at the supermarket and the space
reserved for blue badge holders could be better distributed so as to
provide more spaces for those who struggle with walking nearest to the
store door. Those with wheelchairs do not require this close
proximity. I've tried to use a manual chair to ease the strain. It's
more taxing than walking slowly for me. I have heart failure,
thickening of the septum and lung fibrosis along with muscle pain and
weakness. I can barely stand for much of the time and an episode to
the supermarket can leave me in bed for four days to recover. With a
closer location for parking space, I could use the shops more
frequently and be less at risk from the extended exhaustion, pain and
weakness which commonly follows. Of course I don't use a wheelchair
so you can accuse me of lead-swinging!

On Feb 18, 11:30*pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:17:04 +0000, John Williamson









wrote:
H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:42:57 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Feb 18, 9:19 pm, H. Neary wrote:
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:27:44 -0000, "dennis@home"

wrote:

"H. Neary" wrote in message
om...
Disabilities that only become apparent using X ray vision would hardly
limit someones ability to walk a few yards extra now, would they?
Heart failure!
You don't have to have visible damage to be disabled.
We are not talking a polar trek now are we? A supermarket car park is
not a great distance to travel even for those with health problems.

Someone who's walking ability is restricted because of heart failiure
would not magically be o/k if they were saved walking ten yards or so
would they? *The fact that they are allowed to drive at all if they
have such a serious heart problem may be open to debate BTW.

Incidentally if there are no obvious signs or sounds of their problem,
a bit of a walk may not be a bad idea anyway.
That could lead to collapse, particularly at this time of year. *Yes a
few yards can make all the difference to someone with heart failure.
A disabled car park is more spacious, although an enlarged heart may
be one of the problems associated with the condition, I would doubt
that the expansion warrants an extra meter or so of wheelchair of
wheelchair space to manouver in.
The enlargement occurs when the heart has been weakened for
considerable time it is compensation for weakness in the heart muscle,
however that has occured.
Disabled spaces are not a consolation prize for someone with a cross
to bear, they are specifically designed to serve a purpose for those
that need it!
and?
How then does the extra space help the heart patient?

You still miss the point.

The extra space is for the wheelchair and users of other mobility aids.
The closeness to the store entrance is to help those who can't walk far,
including, but not limited to those with pneumoconioisis or other lung
diseases (Miners' lung and Farmers' lung are two common, non jargon
names), and heart problems. Did you not notice the way that once they
got into the dry, your "jogging" disabled people stopped for a breather
on the seats just inside the store doors?

No

Actually some of the spaces for the disabled are further away than the
standard spaces at my local Asda. Guess what, every user seems to
manage to display a blue badge on those spaces, whereas those opposite
the entrance seem to be taken up by what most uninformed individuals
would assume are fit healthy people who are just too embarassed to
display a badge advertising their condition.

HN

Sometimes I don't.