harry wrote:
On Nov 8, 4:48 pm, Mark wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:03:47 +0000, Roger Chapman





wrote:
On 08/11/2011 15:50, Mark wrote:
I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
about 300,000
Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? (I want to know the power output)
Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10,000 Kw
array for their money. There must be some economy of scale for the
bigger set-up but FIT wise it wouldn't make sense to exceed 10 Kw by a
small margin as that would give a lower FIT. (But rules may have been
different for schools).
10 or 10,000 KW? If £15K pays for 4KW then I assume that they won't
get 10,000KW for £30K ;-)

What I would like to know is whether a 4 Kw array is ever going to
produce 4 Kw or will the practical maximum always be a rather lower
figure. If Harry has been watching his meter assiduously he should be
able to tell us.
10-50% I'd assume.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A 4Kwp array can in fact generate more than 4Kw on cold and sunny
days. (They are more efficient when cold).
The limiting factor is the grid tie inverter which manipulates the
output of the panels for max output, but won't let them go above it's
designed maximum.
On virtually any Summer sunny day they will hit max for a period of a
few hours. The output is very like half a sine wave from dawn to dusk
if there are no clouds. On exceptional days you can see the top of
the wave is "clipped" by the inverter. (The panel on mine draws a
graph every day.)

Yes I do read the meter every day.

KWh max/day was just under 30. (May)
Kwh max/day recent, was 15 sunny all day. (Last week)
Kwh/day min was yesterday 0.2 Foggy/rain all day.

welcome to the winter.

When 0.2 a day is par for the course.
I remember you saying someth8ing to te effect 'teh clouds dont make any
difference: its the light that counts.

Yeah. Right


Happy to see you are getting just 8p a day dividend off your 'fantastic
investment'


I made more by not having a cup of extra coffee.



Recent Kw max I saw was last week around 3 (Sun is now lower in sky.)

Present Kwh generated 2787 since April 21

Target is 3300Kwh

harry wrote:


It's not possible to give a definative answer for Kwh anyway.There is
anly the capital cost to take into account (plus loss of interest)
So it depends how you want to write this cost off.

There is no primary fuel to purchase and little maintenance.

In the first guaranteed years...after that of course lichen, dirt,
bird**** and shoddy far east electronics will render the things more or
less useless in short order.


So the only running cost will be for repairs and there are few
statistics to date.

And you didn't want to look for them anyway did you?

On Nov 4, 8:11 am, harry wrote:
On Nov 3, 9:59 pm, "dennis@home" wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message

news:GvudnUN7neINZi_TnZ2dnUVZ8lednZ2d@brightview. co.uk...

Most CAT scans are MRI these days, and not ionising at all.

I think you will find cat scans are not the same as mri.
Cat scans are good for bones and dyes, mri is good for soft tissue and not
so good for bones (no water) and doesn't know what a dye is.

CAT
Computer Automated Tomography.

Axial

Just refers to how the data obtained is processed.
It can be Xray or Magnetic Resonance Imaging.

and each produces different results with different applications...
- both are scans that aid diagnosis of illnesses...

Jim K

Roger Chapman wrote:
On 08/11/2011 15:50, Mark wrote:
I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
about 300,000

Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? (I want to know the power output)


Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10,000 Kw
array for their money. There must be some economy of scale for the
bigger set-up but FIT wise it wouldn't make sense to exceed 10 Kw by a
small margin as that would give a lower FIT. (But rules may have been
different for schools).

What I would like to know is whether a 4 Kw array is ever going to
produce 4 Kw or will the practical maximum always be a rather lower
figure. If Harry has been watching his meter assiduously he should be
able to tell us.

My array is rated at 2.35kWp and is connected to a 2500watt inverter.
My data logger records average power over each 10 minute period.
On a few occasions the inverter has clipped the power output to
2508watts so it appears possible that an array can generate a few
percent more than it's rated power (even after allowing for inverter
efficiency losses)

Bob

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
harry wrote:
On Nov 7, 9:36 am, Mark wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:44:38 +0000, Roger Chapman

wrote:
On 06/11/2011 10:07, tim.... wrote:
I am beginning to find posters whose software doesn't properly
distinguish between their remarks and those that have gone before more
than a little confusing. Tim at least has added a divider.
But it's easy to get it *right*. I assume it's a another broken copy
of windows live mail to blame.

On a slightly different note I've just found out that my local (state)
school has spent £30,000 installing PV panels. IMHO they should be
spending this money on the kids, not be gambling for the future.

They proudly announced they had made £20 on the first day! (A bright
sunny one at that).
--
Not bad if it was recent (Weather is deteriorating now.). The most

ever made in a day was £13 but that was in May. There are other
factors besides sunshine.


I made $20 in a day once working in a Los Angeles scrapyard breaking
yank tanks.

I wonder how much I would get paid for smashing harry's PV panels?
Half a days work - I'll give you a tenner
20 if you let dennis's tyres down on the way

Will you pay travelling expenses?

I'd give you another £20 towards ...

more than enough for the distance between Harry's and Dennis's hovels


--
geoff

In message , Andrew
writes
Sensible people recognised that a standard mortgage paid off some
capital every year, and increasingly after year 10, so the debt
is going down. I have to query the mental state of anyone who
thought that an endowment mortgage was a good idea.
Endowment mortgages were a good idea when the premium was tax
deductable. As soon as that was removed they were a waste of time. But
the providers then upped the commission and mortgage advisors carried on
advising people to buy them
--
hugh

In message , djc
writes
On 07/11/11 01:08, Andrew wrote:
On 06/11/2011 22:19, Roger Chapman wrote:


Unless you are a higher rate tax payer the only persons who are going to
get any real benefit from an all share ISA are the agent who sold you
the scheme and the firm that administers the ISA.


Not true. My ISA is self invested in whatever I choose, shares, bonds,
etfs, gilt funds, unit trusts, investment trusts etc. No-one sold it to
me, I opened it years ago and it now worth 6 figures. The freedom
from CGT alone has made it worthwhile, despite hiccups with BP shares
in 2010, 75% loss on Barclays bank and theft of railtrack shares by that
money-grabbing lying cheat Byers.

[...]

Only stupid people use 'independent financial advisers'. A fool and his
money are soon parted, and that applies to anyone dealing with a
salesman who is on commission. Anyway, just because an investment has
turned out badly, doesn't mean that you were badly advised.
An IFA should asses what your level of risk is before suggesting
any particular products, but just remember that they are paid
by commission (until 2012).
[...]

Some people like managing their money, just as other DIYers like cabinet
making or decorating. But not everyone has the skill, the knowledge, nor
talent and favourable circumstance. If you DIY and it turns out well for
you fine, but others look upon self-made disasters and choose to
get-a-man-in. In which case the problem with finance as with every other
form of not-DIY is how to find a reliable competent tradesman these days.

Congratulations on skilfully bringing this part of the thread back OT
--
hugh

On Nov 8, 6:57*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
harry wrote:
On Nov 8, 4:48 pm, Mark wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:03:47 +0000, Roger Chapman

wrote:
On 08/11/2011 15:50, Mark wrote:
I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
*about 300,000
*Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? *(I want to know the power output)
Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10,000 Kw
array for their money. There must be some economy of scale for the
bigger set-up but FIT wise it wouldn't make sense to exceed 10 Kw by a
small margin as that would give a lower FIT. (But rules may have been
different for schools).
10 or 10,000 KW? *If £15K pays for 4KW then I assume that they won't
get 10,000KW for £30K ;-)

What I would like to know is whether a 4 Kw array is ever going to
produce 4 Kw or will the practical maximum always be a rather lower
figure. If Harry has been watching his meter assiduously he should be
able to tell us.
10-50% I'd assume.
--
(\__/) *M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. *If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A 4Kwp array can in fact generate more than 4Kw on cold and sunny
days. (They are more efficient when cold).
The limiting factor is the grid tie inverter which manipulates the
output of the panels for max output, but won't let them go above it's
designed maximum.
On virtually any Summer sunny day they will hit max for a period of a
few hours. *The output is very like half a sine wave from dawn to dusk
if there are no clouds. *On exceptional days you can see the top of
the wave is "clipped" by the inverter. *(The panel on mine draws a
graph every day.)

Yes I do read the meter every day.

KWh max/day was just under 30. * * (May)
Kwh max/day *recent, was 15 * * sunny all day. *(Last week)
Kwh/day min was yesterday 0.2 * *Foggy/rain all day.

welcome to the winter.

When 0.2 a day is par for the course.
I remember you saying someth8ing to te effect 'teh clouds dont make any
difference: its the light that counts.

I have never said that. Your dementia troubling you again?
Once again being selective with facts.
One of the characteristics of a half wit.

On Nov 8, 7:00*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not possible to give a definative answer for Kwh anyway.There is
anly the capital cost to take into account (plus loss of interest)
So it depends how you want to write this cost off.

There is no primary fuel to purchase and little maintenance.

In the first guaranteed years...after that of course lichen, dirt,
bird**** and shoddy far east electronics will render the things more or
less useless in short order.

So the only running cost will be for repairs and there are few
statistics to date.

And you didn't want to look for them anyway did you?

You show a remarkable knowledge/bigotry for someone that doesn't
posses any.

hugh wrote:
In message , Andrew
writes
Sensible people recognised that a standard mortgage paid off some
capital every year, and increasingly after year 10, so the debt
is going down. I have to query the mental state of anyone who
thought that an endowment mortgage was a good idea.
Endowment mortgages were a good idea when the premium was tax
deductable. As soon as that was removed they were a waste of time. But
the providers then upped the commission and mortgage advisors carried on
advising people to buy them

Then the government phased out mortgage income relief, and we were done
from both angles.

When I got my endowment mortgage, it was a good idea, as I got tax
relief on the insurance element of the endowment policy, and tax relief
on the entire mortgage payment. The numbers looked very good compared
with a repayment mortgage, with a significantly lower monthly repayment.
Then the government changed the rules.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:

When I got my endowment mortgage, it was a good idea, as I got tax
relief on the insurance element of the endowment policy, and tax relief
on the entire mortgage payment. The numbers looked very good compared
with a repayment mortgage, with a significantly lower monthly repayment.
Then the government changed the rules.

I was fortunate because when I took out my final mortgage, I had
no need of life insurance. The endowment policy was therefore not
the best buy, and I was saved from later problems.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Nov 8, 4:03*pm, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 08/11/2011 15:50, Mark wrote:

I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
*about 300,000

*Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? *(I want to know the power output)

Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10,000 Kw
array for their money.

School = Local Authority = Procurement system with "approved
contractors" therefore make no sensible assumptions about control of
costs and common sense!

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 02:50:54 -0800 (PST), cynic
wrote:

On Nov 8, 4:03*pm, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 08/11/2011 15:50, Mark wrote:

I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
*about 300,000

*Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? *(I want to know the power output)

Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10,000 Kw
array for their money.

School = Local Authority = Procurement system with "approved
contractors" therefore make no sensible assumptions about control of
costs and common sense!

This is not an LA school.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 09/11/2011 11:09, Mark wrote:

I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
about 300,000

Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? (I want to know the power output)

Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10 [edited] Kw
array for their money.

School = Local Authority = Procurement system with "approved
contractors" therefore make no sensible assumptions about control of
costs and common sense!

This is not an LA school.

Unfortunately 'approved contractors' are the only route to the higher
FITS. PV panels, like some other home projects, would make good DIY
schemes and would be viable at much lower rewards.

--
Roger Chapman

On Nov 9, 11:31*am, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 09/11/2011 11:09, Mark wrote:





I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
* about 300,000

* Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? *(I want to know the power output)

Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10 [edited] Kw
array for their money.

School = Local Authority = Procurement system with "approved
contractors" therefore make no sensible assumptions about control of
costs and common sense!

This is not an LA school.

Unfortunately 'approved contractors' are the only route to the higher
FITS. PV panels, like some other home projects, would make good DIY
schemes and would be viable at much lower rewards.

--
Roger Chapman- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No Roger, I did not mean an MCC approved contractor (which is a
prerequisite for qualifying for FIT) but a Local Authority Approved
Contractor which basically means we know which bits of paper to wave
at the faceless ones in the back office so we get on the list, but in
general will charge through the nose for this and then deliver the
cheapest way to us while extracting the highest price we can screw out
of the local authority. A second tier on top of MCC registration and
another factor into why our council taxes are high.

In message , John Williamson
writes
hugh wrote:
In message , Andrew
writes
Sensible people recognised that a standard mortgage paid off some
capital every year, and increasingly after year 10, so the debt
is going down. I have to query the mental state of anyone who
thought that an endowment mortgage was a good idea.
Endowment mortgages were a good idea when the premium was tax
deductable. As soon as that was removed they were a waste of time. But
the providers then upped the commission and mortgage advisors carried
on advising people to buy them

Then the government phased out mortgage income relief, and we were done
from both angles.

When I got my endowment mortgage, it was a good idea, as I got tax
relief on the insurance element of the endowment policy, and tax relief
on the entire mortgage payment. The numbers looked very good compared
with a repayment mortgage, with a significantly lower monthly
repayment. Then the government changed the rules.

Indeed and promised to use the extra cash raised for - guess what - yes,
social housing
--
hugh

On Nov 9, 11:31*am, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 09/11/2011 11:09, Mark wrote:





I wonder how many KW £30,000 buys?
* about 300,000

* Is that W or KW?
Kwh
Over what period? *(I want to know the power output)

Your original question related to a school spending £30,000. I don't
know the answer for sure but if £15,000 was the benchmark for a 4Kw
array then I think it reasonable to assume the school got a 10 [edited] Kw
array for their money.

School = Local Authority = Procurement system with "approved
contractors" therefore make no sensible assumptions about control of
costs and common sense!

This is not an LA school.

Unfortunately 'approved contractors' are the only route to the higher
FITS. PV panels, like some other home projects, would make good DIY
schemes and would be viable at much lower rewards.



An easy DIY project but ideal for numerous scams and fiddles.

On Oct 31, 4:18*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15507750

Down to 21p/kWHr for installations completed after 12th Dec 2011.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Fascinating planning application floated across the table for comment
at last nights Parish Council meeting. A local farm wants to put a
large system on top of an agricultural building and therefore not
permitted development. The application was submitted by the
installation company and consisted of a large number of panels on the
South facing slope of the roof PLUS another array on the NORTH slope.
Methinks someone is going to get their eyes opened if the application
is passed and the installation goes ahead! Of course there is a vast
difference between putting in an application and completing the
installation.

In message
, cynic
writes
On Oct 31, 4:18*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15507750

Down to 21p/kWHr for installations completed after 12th Dec 2011.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Fascinating planning application floated across the table for comment
at last nights Parish Council meeting. A local farm wants to put a
large system on top of an agricultural building and therefore not
permitted development. The application was submitted by the
installation company and consisted of a large number of panels on the
South facing slope of the roof PLUS another array on the NORTH slope.
Methinks someone is going to get their eyes opened if the application
is passed and the installation goes ahead! Of course there is a vast
difference between putting in an application and completing the
installation.

Agricultural roof pitches can be 12.5 or 15deg.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Nov 9, 9:22*pm, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message
, cynic
writes





On Oct 31, 4:18*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15507750

Down to 21p/kWHr for installations completed after 12th Dec 2011.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Fascinating planning application floated across the table for comment
at last nights Parish Council meeting. A local farm wants to put a
large system on top of an agricultural building and therefore not
permitted development. The application was submitted by the
installation company and consisted of a large number of panels on the
South facing slope of the roof PLUS another array on the NORTH slope.
Methinks someone is going to get their eyes opened if the application
is passed and the installation goes ahead! Of course there is a vast
difference between putting in an application and completing the
installation.

Agricultural roof pitches can be 12.5 or 15deg.

regards


I was just going to say that.
Also there are brackets they use to prop the panels up at a more
favourable angle.
So it should not be a problem though they still will not be ideal.
There is another advantage in that the wiring can be more easily got
at than with flush panels.

cynic wrote:

Fascinating planning application floated across the table for comment
at last nights Parish Council meeting. A local farm wants to put a
large system on top of an agricultural building and therefore not
permitted development.

I noticed in my local planning applications one for the building
of a barn/ animal shelter, on the roof of which it is proposed to
mount solar PV panels.

The applicant clearly finds the standard clauses in the Design
and Access Statement a bit tedious:

http://www.document1.co.uk/blueprint/Documents.asp?Acpt=189872465&CaseId=1001580&CaseNo =10/01580/FUL

Access
The policy or approach adopted to access, and how policies
relating to access in relevant local development documents have
been taken into account.

"My policy is that users will be expected to make their own way
into the development using their own four little legs. There will
be no restriction on access as long as they all use the open side
and not try to go through the walls."

The planners can't have been too upset - permission granted, and
it is now built.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:40:41 +0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , John Williamson
writes
hugh wrote:
In message , Andrew
writes
Sensible people recognised that a standard mortgage paid off some
capital every year, and increasingly after year 10, so the debt
is going down. I have to query the mental state of anyone who
thought that an endowment mortgage was a good idea.
Endowment mortgages were a good idea when the premium was tax
deductable. As soon as that was removed they were a waste of time. But
the providers then upped the commission and mortgage advisors carried
on advising people to buy them

Then the government phased out mortgage income relief, and we were done
from both angles.

When I got my endowment mortgage, it was a good idea, as I got tax
relief on the insurance element of the endowment policy, and tax relief
on the entire mortgage payment. The numbers looked very good compared
with a repayment mortgage, with a significantly lower monthly
repayment. Then the government changed the rules.

Indeed and promised to use the extra cash raised for - guess what - yes,
social housing

Another lie then? ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.