I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....m_x_700mm.html

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Dec 18, 11:52*am, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Some of this high tech shiny bubble wrap stuff?

PeterC formulated on Saturday :
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....m_x_700mm.html

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?

Could you not mount the ladder fixed to battons, to space the ladder
away from the hatch and then that would give room for insulation?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article
,
harry writes
On Dec 18, 11:52*am, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Some of this high tech shiny bubble wrap stuff?

Apart from the fact that it is ****, it also requires to sit in a
compartment with 1" of still air on either side of it so you still lose
2" of space.

HB's idea of battening off sounds good although creating a sandwich with
the existing hatch panel, 2" of Celotex and 1/2" of ply to protect the
insulation from foot impact might work just as well with the 'tex
provising the stand-off instead of the battens.

1" of celotex might do the job in which case it could be stuck to the
underside and with a 45deg chamfer around the edge to half depth and
appropriate decorating finish it wouldn't look too obtrusive.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 18/12/2010 11:52, PeterC wrote:

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!


50mm lump of insulation attached by super magnets, to be put up when
really cold and sod the aesthetics of it. Could store it up in the loft
when it gets a bit warmer?

--
Adrian C

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:01:31 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

PeterC formulated on Saturday :
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....m_x_700mm.html

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?

Could you not mount the ladder fixed to battons, to space the ladder
away from the hatch and then that would give room for insulation?

That's a thought, but I'd need to move the bracketry up on the carcass to
retain the relative positioning of ladder and springs. Those springs are
very strong and might do nasty things if out of kilter.

Ah, the ladder is cut to length already - also, it only just clears the end
of the hatch so it would clash if any higher.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:55:24 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
PeterC wrote:

I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....adder_-_1100mm
_x_700mm.html

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Normally a loft hatch is recessed so it's above ceiling height. Are you
saying that this is not the case when there's a ladder - and in your
particular case?

I've fitted 2 loft ladders, one being the standard fold-into-the-loft type
and the other mine and in each case the instructions showed the bottom of
the hatch flush with the ceiling. The edging frame is meant to be on the
ceiling and the lower edge of the carcass.

This year I've insulated two loft hatches here. I bought a (IIRC 2"
thick) sheet of celotex which I cut to size, and covered round all the
edges with heavy-duty 2" wide sellotape. I then glued these to the top
of each loft hatch.

That would take up a lot of the 1.75" between the ladder and the hatch!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:13:08 +0000, fred wrote:

1" of celotex might do the job in which case it could be stuck to the
underside and with a 45deg chamfer around the edge to half depth and
appropriate decorating finish it wouldn't look too obtrusive.

Now that's an idea that could work and it'd be out of harm's way when the
hatch is open.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:20:10 +0000, Adrian C wrote:

On 18/12/2010 11:52, PeterC wrote:

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!


50mm lump of insulation attached by super magnets, to be put up when
really cold and sod the aesthetics of it. Could store it up in the loft
when it gets a bit warmer?

Good point; in my house, aesthetics is a foreign concept!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article , PeterC
writes
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:13:08 +0000, fred wrote:

1" of celotex might do the job in which case it could be stuck to the
underside and with a 45deg chamfer around the edge to half depth and
appropriate decorating finish it wouldn't look too obtrusive.

Now that's an idea that could work and it'd be out of harm's way when the
hatch is open.

I wondered if 1" would do so did a little calc:

If your hatch is the same size as the one you linked to it works out
about 15W loss for a 21degC diff (I assumed 18C for a hall and -3C in
the loft).

This from 0.77sqm door x U value of 0.95W/m2K for 25mm Celotex times
21degC diff.

Wallpaper/lining paper will stick to the foil on Celotex, I have done
something similar and mixed a little PVA into wallpaper paste to be
sure.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

On 18 Dec, 11:52, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Is there a flat area in the loft, around the hatch? You could make a
foot deep upside-down box out of 50mm Celotex, just larger than the
hatch, and pull it down overhead to cover the whole hatch and ladder
arrangement before you stow it. When you pull the ladder down, go up
it and push the box out of the way (Celotex weighs about the same as
David Cameron's brain). That way the whole hatch and ladder is on the
warm side of the insulation, when it's stowed. I'd fix the box
together with low-expansion PU foam and drywall screws.

Cheers
Richard

In article , Harry
Bloomfield scribeth thus
PeterC formulated on Saturday :
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....adder_-_1100mm
_x_700mm.html

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?

Could you not mount the ladder fixed to battons, to space the ladder
away from the hatch and then that would give room for insulation?


I bet more heat leaks around the poor seal that most loft hatches have
like the bl**dy Wavin plastics one we have that distorts.

Must get one of these new ones..
--
Tony Sayer

On Dec 18, 11:52*am, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?

Just a possibility: remove ladder, fit a 1-2" layer of the squashy
loft insulation with outer wrap on it, and refit ladder. Now feet
compress it in use.

Another option is a box of insulation above as someone said, but
hinged so its a secondary flap. Add a short pullcord, just makes it
trivially easy to use.


NT

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 18:11:41 +0000, fred wrote:

In article , PeterC
writes
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:13:08 +0000, fred wrote:

1" of celotex might do the job in which case it could be stuck to the
underside and with a 45deg chamfer around the edge to half depth and
appropriate decorating finish it wouldn't look too obtrusive.

Now that's an idea that could work and it'd be out of harm's way when the
hatch is open.

I wondered if 1" would do so did a little calc:

If your hatch is the same size as the one you linked to it works out
about 15W loss for a 21degC diff (I assumed 18C for a hall and -3C in
the loft).

This from 0.77sqm door x U value of 0.95W/m2K for 25mm Celotex times
21degC diff.

Wallpaper/lining paper will stick to the foil on Celotex, I have done
something similar and mixed a little PVA into wallpaper paste to be
sure.

Thanks for the calculation, Fred.
One factor that I forgot to point out: the linked item has a hatch that's
insulated and 35mm thick; mine's an older model and is 27mm thick, so any
insulating properties will be insignificant, making any addition worthwhile.

Now to find a small amount of Celotex...
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:28:01 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster wrote:

On 18 Dec, 11:52, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Is there a flat area in the loft, around the hatch? You could make a
foot deep upside-down box out of 50mm Celotex, just larger than the
hatch, and pull it down overhead to cover the whole hatch and ladder
arrangement before you stow it. When you pull the ladder down, go up
it and push the box out of the way (Celotex weighs about the same as
David Cameron's brain). That way the whole hatch and ladder is on the
warm side of the insulation, when it's stowed. I'd fix the box
together with low-expansion PU foam and drywall screws.

Cheers
Richard

Now that's an idea - it would also make a cover for when I'm working up
there in cold weather.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:36:39 -0800 (PST), Tabby wrote:

On Dec 18, 11:52*am, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( *it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?

Just a possibility: remove ladder, fit a 1-2" layer of the squashy
loft insulation with outer wrap on it, and refit ladder. Now feet
compress it in use.

Another option is a box of insulation above as someone said, but
hinged so its a secondary flap. Add a short pullcord, just makes it
trivially easy to use.

NT

This is developing; now, semi-automation?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 19 Dec, 11:10, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:28:01 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster wrote:
On 18 Dec, 11:52, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Is there a flat area in the loft, around the hatch? You could make a
foot deep upside-down box out of 50mm Celotex, just larger than the
hatch, and pull it down overhead to cover the whole hatch and ladder
arrangement before you stow it. When you pull the ladder down, go up
it and push the box out of the way (Celotex weighs about the same as
David Cameron's brain). That way the whole hatch and ladder is on the
warm side of the insulation, when it's stowed. I'd fix the box
together with low-expansion PU foam and drywall screws.

Cheers
Richard

Now that's an idea - it would also make a cover for when I'm working up
there in cold weather.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You could wear it on your head.

Cheers
Richard

On 19 Dec, 11:10, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 13:28:01 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster wrote:
On 18 Dec, 11:52, PeterC wrote:
I've a largish hatch with the ladder mounted on it. It's 1100x700mm, so a
good source of overhead cooling :-( it's this one more or less:

http://www.laddersandscaffoldtowers....en_Loft_Ladder...

Now, I can't afford to lose any depth behind the treads - in fact, could do
with more - as me feets too big, so the simple method of sticking on 50mm of
insulation is out.

The only other way I can think of is to insulate the underside, but that
means a lump sticking down from the ceiling!

Any ideas, please?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Is there a flat area in the loft, around the hatch? You could make a
foot deep upside-down box out of 50mm Celotex, just larger than the
hatch, and pull it down overhead to cover the whole hatch and ladder
arrangement before you stow it. When you pull the ladder down, go up
it and push the box out of the way (Celotex weighs about the same as
David Cameron's brain). That way the whole hatch and ladder is on the
warm side of the insulation, when it's stowed. I'd fix the box
together with low-expansion PU foam and drywall screws.

Cheers
Richard

Now that's an idea - it would also make a cover for when I'm working up
there in cold weather.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Two enhancements - if it's not heavy enough to sit properly you could
add some timber to it; a soft roll of something fixed to the bottom
edge would prevent draughts getting under it.

Cheers
Richard

On Dec 19, 3:39*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:

Two enhancements - if it's not heavy enough to sit properly you could
add some timber to it; a soft roll of something fixed to the bottom
edge would prevent draughts getting under it.
Good idea. I had to make a similar hood for to go over my loft hatch
as the wooden drop down ladder protrudes about 150mm above the loft
floor. If you don't cover the celotex with something you end up with
foam snowing down whenever you move it. I ended up spray gluing
breathable roofing membrane to the celotex. It sort of works. There
are still draughts around the bottom so I need to take your advice and
create a seal. I wondered about making a small upstand lip around the
edge of the opening which the hood sits into. I am wary of this as it
might be a trip hazard when going up and down the ladder.

Dave.

On 19 Dec, 18:23, Dave Starling wrote:
On Dec 19, 3:39*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:

Two enhancements - if it's not heavy enough to sit properly you could
add some timber to it; a soft roll of something fixed to the bottom
edge would prevent draughts getting under it.

Good idea. I had to make a similar hood for to go over my loft hatch
as the wooden drop down ladder protrudes about 150mm above the loft
floor. If you don't cover the celotex with something you end up with
foam snowing down whenever you move it. I ended up spray gluing
breathable roofing membrane to the celotex. It sort of works. There
are still draughts around the bottom so I need to take your advice and
create a seal. I wondered about making a small upstand lip around the
edge of the opening which the hood sits into. I am wary of this as it
might be a trip hazard when going up and down the ladder.

Dave.

Foam spraying down - Christ yes, use foil-backed, the non-foil Celotex
and Kingspan is horrible. I used some non-foil Kingspan to insulate my
rafters, because it was cheap from Seconds and Co (obviously I used
foiled over, for a vapour barrier). We christened it FPS, for f******
pink ****e, because it got everywhere when you cut it and trod on the
bits. All over your clothes and everything

Cheers
Richard

Cheers
Richard

On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:08:57 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster wrote:

On 19 Dec, 18:23, Dave Starling wrote:
On Dec 19, 3:39*pm, geraldthehamster wrote:

Two enhancements - if it's not heavy enough to sit properly you could
add some timber to it; a soft roll of something fixed to the bottom
edge would prevent draughts getting under it.

Good idea. I had to make a similar hood for to go over my loft hatch
as the wooden drop down ladder protrudes about 150mm above the loft
floor. If you don't cover the celotex with something you end up with
foam snowing down whenever you move it. I ended up spray gluing
breathable roofing membrane to the celotex. It sort of works. There
are still draughts around the bottom so I need to take your advice and
create a seal. I wondered about making a small upstand lip around the
edge of the opening which the hood sits into. I am wary of this as it
might be a trip hazard when going up and down the ladder.

Dave.

Foam spraying down - Christ yes, use foil-backed, the non-foil Celotex
and Kingspan is horrible. I used some non-foil Kingspan to insulate my
rafters, because it was cheap from Seconds and Co (obviously I used
foiled over, for a vapour barrier). We christened it FPS, for f******
pink ****e, because it got everywhere when you cut it and trod on the
bits. All over your clothes and everything

Cheers
Richard

Ah, a bit like a super version of some packaging foam that sticks little
bits of white stuff all over dark clothing.
If I go with this method - and it's looking the least intrusive - I'll
probably use thin ply and make a double-wall box, so the Celotex is fully
enclosed.


--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 20/12/2010 16:13, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:08:57 -0800 (PST), geraldthehamster wrote:

On 19 Dec, 18:23, Dave wrote:
On Dec 19, 3:39 pm, wrote:

Two enhancements - if it's not heavy enough to sit properly you could
add some timber to it; a soft roll of something fixed to the bottom
edge would prevent draughts getting under it.

Good idea. I had to make a similar hood for to go over my loft hatch
as the wooden drop down ladder protrudes about 150mm above the loft
floor. If you don't cover the celotex with something you end up with
foam snowing down whenever you move it. I ended up spray gluing
breathable roofing membrane to the celotex. It sort of works. There
are still draughts around the bottom so I need to take your advice and
create a seal. I wondered about making a small upstand lip around the
edge of the opening which the hood sits into. I am wary of this as it
might be a trip hazard when going up and down the ladder.

Dave.

Foam spraying down - Christ yes, use foil-backed, the non-foil Celotex
and Kingspan is horrible. I used some non-foil Kingspan to insulate my
rafters, because it was cheap from Seconds and Co (obviously I used
foiled over, for a vapour barrier). We christened it FPS, for f******
pink ****e, because it got everywhere when you cut it and trod on the
bits. All over your clothes and everything

Cheers
Richard

Ah, a bit like a super version of some packaging foam that sticks little
bits of white stuff all over dark clothing.
If I go with this method - and it's looking the least intrusive - I'll
probably use thin ply and make a double-wall box, so the Celotex is fully
enclosed.



I did that with 6mm mdf, Rockwool slab, and a dustbin liner. I used hot
melt glue to join the pieces, and stick them to the flap. Not that
structurally sound without fixings, but it's enough.