mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

ta
Jim K

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?


If you are obstructing a right of way they have powers to issue an
enforcement notice to remove the obstruction within a specified time. If the
obstruction is not removed they can go to court or remove it themselves at
your cost. The price they charge to remove it will probably be substantially
higher than if you paid to have it removed yourself.

Peter Crosland

Jim K wrote:

mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:
Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

Jim K

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

It might help if you told us what sort of Right of Way it is and just
what use you consider to be unlawful..
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On 25 Oct, 14:31, "Robin" wrote:
what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

It might help if you told us what sort of Right of Way it is and just
what use you consider to be unlawful..
--

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 06:16:08 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Jim K
wrote this:-

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

Depends on what sort of track it is, what the obstructions are and
whether what you think is "illegal" actually is.

It is possible to get the status of a track changed,if what you
think is "illegal" is not. The bod from the council can be very
helpful in providing help and advice, though if you annoy them at
the outset then they may feel less inclined to bother.

Bear in mind that there are a number of things to consider, for
example the Disability Discrimination Act.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:

Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

No different, you are not allowed to take the law into your own hands.

MBQ

On 25 Oct, 14:41, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16 pm, Jim K wrote:



On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:

Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

No different, you are not allowed to take the law into your own hands.


sigh

and just tell me who else *actually* will apply it?

Jim K

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On Oct 25, 2:43*pm, Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 14:41, "Man at B&Q" wrote:



On Oct 25, 2:16 pm, Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:

Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

No different, you are not allowed to take the law into your own hands.

sigh

and just tell me who else *actually* will apply it?

sigh

MBQ

Robin wrote:
motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

I spoke to tow lads on bikes.

"This is private land, its not my land and I cant tell you to get off
it, but someone else might: This is also a footpath and you should
strictly not be using it. That is a green road and you are permitted to
ride on it if you are licensed and insured. Nice bikes you have. Bye."

They were gone in 5 minutes...

On 25 Oct, 14:50, "Robin" wrote:
motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

Jim K

On 25 Oct, 14:58, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:43 pm, Jim K wrote:



On 25 Oct, 14:41, "Man at B&Q" wrote:

On Oct 25, 2:16 pm, Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:

Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

No different, you are not allowed to take the law into your own hands.

sigh

and just tell me who else *actually* will apply it?

sigh

precisement....

On 25/10/2010 15:48, Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 14:50, wrote:
motor powered vehciles on Bridelways& footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?


As far as footpaths are concerned I have seen a number of places where
stiles have been replaced by gates supposedly to facilitate wheelchair
access. I can't see how that would have any bearing on a bridleway where
horses need gates at least as wide as a wheelchair but we did have near
here some considerable time ago (10 - 20 years) ( and probably still do
have) a section of a BOAT (Byway Open to All Traffic, AKA Green Lane)
that had tractor ruts so deep that any mere 4 x 4 had to straddle one of
the ruts rather than follow the centre of the track. The local authority
managed to downgrade this to a bridleway on the grounds they could not
afford to maintain the highway. They subsequently levelled the surface
with road scrapings and put a horse width restriction at one end. (So
much for their lack of funds to maintain the highway). Last time I was
in that area the signs said cars were prohibited but motorcycles were
allowed, along with horses. So the answer to preventing illegal
motorcycle traffic is obvious - make it legal.

On 25 Oct, 16:14, Roger Chapman wrote:
On 25/10/2010 15:48, Jim K wrote:

On 25 Oct, 14:50, wrote:
motor powered vehciles on Bridelways& footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

As far as footpaths are concerned I have seen a number of places where
stiles have been replaced by gates supposedly to facilitate wheelchair
access. I can't see how that would have any bearing on a bridleway where
horses need gates at least as wide as a wheelchair but we did have near
here some considerable time ago (10 - 20 years) ( and probably still do
have) a section of a BOAT (Byway Open to All Traffic, AKA Green Lane)
that had tractor ruts so deep that any mere 4 x 4 had to straddle one of
the ruts rather than follow the centre of the track.

The local authority
managed to downgrade this to a bridleway on the grounds they could not
afford to maintain the highway. They subsequently levelled the surface
with road scrapings and put a horse width restriction at one end.

how wide was that? roughly will do..

(So
much for their lack of funds to maintain the highway). Last time I was
in that area the signs said cars were prohibited but motorcycles were
allowed, along with horses.

so not a true Bridleway then?

So the answer to preventing illegal
motorcycle traffic is obvious - make it legal.

mmmmm

Jim K

"Jim K" wrote in message
...
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

ta
Jim K

I should wait and hear what the council has to say. In my experience they
are much keener on closing rights of way than opening them, and they may
even be sounding you out as an ally in trying to get the thing closed. Our
council are also chainsaw happy and even tried a similar ploy, ringing up
people along our road to ask them if they found the trees a nuisance.
Luckily the locals saw through the deception and told them to leave the
trees alone please! Some of your residents may be using the track for
access: others might be campaigning to have it shut down. On the other hand
it may be ramblers or horse riders who have complained of the conditions.
The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else: possibly your
RoW man wants to discuss putting restrictions on the use of this particular
lane. You will have to wait for the discussion and see.

S

Huge wrote:
On 2010-10-25, Spamlet wrote:

The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Garbage.


Out of interest, in what way garbage ?

That they are campaigning vigorously or damaging lanes ?

On 25/10/2010 16:45, Jim K wrote:
The local authority
managed to downgrade this to a bridleway on the grounds they could not
afford to maintain the highway. They subsequently levelled the surface
with road scrapings and put a horse width restriction at one end.

how wide was that? roughly will do..


It might be as long as 10 years since I went that way but ISTR something
like 4 feet.

(So
much for their lack of funds to maintain the highway). Last time I was
in that area the signs said cars were prohibited but motorcycles were
allowed, along with horses.

so not a true Bridleway then?

No and looking at the map it might not be although that was the
impression I got when the change was first made. Looking at my 1:25000
map of the area (before the change) the whole of the track is shown as a
white road. looking at get-a-map the whole of the track is shown as
"other routes with public access" (with widely spaced green dots). But
that doesn't differentiate between the section that I thought was still
open to cars and that restricted to motorcycles.

The road in question is Altar Lane which runs up from Bingley via
Druid's Alter to Keighley Road on Harden Moor if anyone has any
pertinent information.

On Oct 25, 5:03*pm, "Spamlet" wrote:
"Jim K" wrote in message

...

mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

ta
Jim K

I should wait and hear what the council has to say. *In my experience they
are much keener on closing rights of way than opening them, and they may
even be sounding you out as an ally in trying to get the thing closed. *Our
council are also chainsaw happy and even tried a similar ploy, ringing up
people along our road to ask them if they found the trees a nuisance.
Luckily the locals saw through the deception and told them to leave the
trees alone please! *Some of your residents may be using the track for
access: others might be campaigning to have it shut down. *On the other hand
it may be ramblers or horse riders who have complained of the conditions.
The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Horses are just as bad, even worse in that they can churn up the whole
width of a track rather than just leaving a couple of ruts.

MBQ

On 25 Oct, 18:26, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Oct 25, 5:03 pm, "Spamlet" wrote:



"Jim K" wrote in message

...

mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

ta
Jim K

I should wait and hear what the council has to say. In my experience they
are much keener on closing rights of way than opening them, and they may
even be sounding you out as an ally in trying to get the thing closed. Our
council are also chainsaw happy and even tried a similar ploy, ringing up
people along our road to ask them if they found the trees a nuisance.
Luckily the locals saw through the deception and told them to leave the
trees alone please! Some of your residents may be using the track for
access: others might be campaigning to have it shut down. On the other hand
it may be ramblers or horse riders who have complained of the conditions.
The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Horses are just as bad, even worse in that they can churn up the whole
width of a track rather than just leaving a couple of ruts.

those "couple of ruts" rapidly turn an evenly worn surface into a ruin
given enough rain and gradient....

I like the sound of horses *infinitely* more than the sound of "off
roaders" incl. inconsiderate scrotes on illegal quads/motorbikes....

but how do you differntiate them at access points?

Jim K

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:56:35 -0700 (PDT), Jim K
wrote:

On 25 Oct, 18:26, "Man at B&Q" wrote:
On Oct 25, 5:03 pm, "Spamlet" wrote:



"Jim K" wrote in message

...

mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

ta
Jim K

I should wait and hear what the council has to say. In my experience they
are much keener on closing rights of way than opening them, and they may
even be sounding you out as an ally in trying to get the thing closed. Our
council are also chainsaw happy and even tried a similar ploy, ringing up
people along our road to ask them if they found the trees a nuisance.
Luckily the locals saw through the deception and told them to leave the
trees alone please! Some of your residents may be using the track for
access: others might be campaigning to have it shut down. On the other hand
it may be ramblers or horse riders who have complained of the conditions.
The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Horses are just as bad, even worse in that they can churn up the whole
width of a track rather than just leaving a couple of ruts.

those "couple of ruts" rapidly turn an evenly worn surface into a ruin
given enough rain and gradient....

I like the sound of horses *infinitely* more than the sound of "off
roaders" incl. inconsiderate scrotes on illegal quads/motorbikes....

but how do you differntiate them at access points?

Angle grinder, judiciuosly applied.

--
Frank Erskine

? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

Sorry about the TLA [1]. Yes, that's what I meant.

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

Before the DDA an option sometimes used on some bridleways was a "horse
stile". See eg http://www.ride-uk.org.uk/standard/hstile.htm or
http://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/docume...20guidance.pdf
Since the DDA horse stiles can AIUI still be used *but* there needs to
be an alternative route for wheelchair users.

Also (according to a keen horsewoman with whom I used to work) some
equestrian enthusiasts deprecate horse stiles because they cannot be
negotiated by arthritic horses. But she may have been pulling my
chain.


[1] Three Letter Acronym

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

On 25 Oct, 20:00, "Robin" wrote:
? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

Sorry about the TLA [1]. Yes, that's what I meant.

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

Before the DDA an option sometimes used on some bridleways was a "horse
stile". See eghttp://www.ride-uk.org.uk/standard/hstile.htmorhttp://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/documents/equestrian%20paths%20guidance...
Since the DDA horse stiles can AIUI still be used *but* there needs to
be an alternative route for wheelchair users.

Also (according to a keen horsewoman with whom I used to work) some
equestrian enthusiasts deprecate horse stiles because they cannot be
negotiated by arthritic horses. But she may have been pulling my
chain.

interesting links - thankyou

Jim K

On 25 Oct, 20:00, "Robin" wrote:
? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

Sorry about the TLA [1]. Yes, that's what I meant.

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

Before the DDA an option sometimes used on some bridleways was a "horse
stile". See eghttp://www.ride-uk.org.uk/standard/hstile.htmorhttp://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/documents/equestrian%20paths%20guidance...
Since the DDA horse stiles can AIUI still be used *but* there needs to
be an alternative route for wheelchair users.

Also (according to a keen horsewoman with whom I used to work) some
equestrian enthusiasts deprecate horse stiles because they cannot be
negotiated by arthritic horses. But she may have been pulling my
chain.

[1] Three Letter Acronym

NB I thought acronyms had to be pronounceable - e.g. COBOL
TDAs seems more appropriate (Three Digit Abbreviation)

;))
Jim K

"Man at B&Q" wrote
I should wait and hear what the council has to say. In my experience they
are much keener on closing rights of way than opening them, and they may
even be sounding you out as an ally in trying to get the thing closed.
Our
council are also chainsaw happy and even tried a similar ploy, ringing up
people along our road to ask them if they found the trees a nuisance.
Luckily the locals saw through the deception and told them to leave the
trees alone please! Some of your residents may be using the track for
access: others might be campaigning to have it shut down. On the other
hand
it may be ramblers or horse riders who have complained of the conditions.
The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the
old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Horses are just as bad, even worse in that they can churn up the whole
width of a track rather than just leaving a couple of ruts.

And use for their original purpose - drovers' roads for driving herds of
cattle - is even worse!

Funnily enough, I didn't notice any of the Rambers, horsey types etc.
complain when local 4x4 green laners cut up and winched off the trees
blocking our local RUPPs after the '87 storm...

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

"Robin" wrote in message
...

? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

Sorry about the TLA [1]. Yes, that's what I meant.



[1] Three Letter Acronym




I'll raise you an ETLA[2]

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

[2] Extended Three Letter Acronym...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:00:21 +0100, "Robin" wrote:


? Disability Discrimination Act?? or someat else

Sorry about the TLA [1]. Yes, that's what I meant.

How did that make it more difficult? a horse is/was a horse?

Before the DDA an option sometimes used on some bridleways was a "horse
stile". See eg http://www.ride-uk.org.uk/standard/hstile.htm or
http://www.bhsscotland.org.uk/docume...20guidance.pdf
Since the DDA horse stiles can AIUI still be used *but* there needs to
be an alternative route for wheelchair users.

Also (according to a keen horsewoman with whom I used to work) some
equestrian enthusiasts deprecate horse stiles because they cannot be
negotiated by arthritic horses. But she may have been pulling my
chain.


[1] Three Letter Acronym

ITYM "Three Letter Abbreviation" - an acronym has to be pronounceable
as a word - hence the "nym" bit...

:-)

--
Frank Erskine

In message
, Man
at B&Q writes
On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, Jim K wrote:
On 25 Oct, 14:12, (A.Lee) wrote:

Jim K wrote:
mmmm just heard the RoW enforcement bod wants a meet re the track at
the rear of our houses :- overhanging trees, certain motor vehicle
"obstructions" that I "may be aware" of ....

Presume they are particularly budget constrained and especially
desperate to appear useful in these "public sector deep cuts" times?
Does it depend how they want to appear "useful" and to whom?

How much clout do they have? any gotchas/experiences?

They can ask you to cut back your trees/obstructions. If you continually
ignore them, they can do it themselves/get a Contractor in, and send you
the bill, which would be far larger than if you DIY.

what if the obstructions are intended to dissuade illegal motors' use
of the trackway?

No different, you are not allowed to take the law into your own hands.

Different areas may have different rules but here (Herts.) something
like a 5' 0" width restriction may be found acceptable on a public
bridleway. Travelling widths would normally be 2m for a crossfield route
and 3m for a field edge one.

The Rights of Way Officer is someone you need to befriend rather than
offend. He may be sympathetic to your perceived problem and able to
help.

Are you sure it is only a bridleway and not a byway open to all traffic?
BOATs can cross land in private ownership (I have one) the surface is
vested in the local highway authority.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

ITYM "Three Letter Abbreviation" - an acronym has to be pronounceable
as a word - hence the "nym" bit...

Sniff.

I had thought I might adopt the Humpty Dumpty defence [1].

But I think I shall proffer first the plain OED defence and cite the
definition of Acronym form the current online version:

"acronym

A word formed from the initial letters of other words. Hence as v.
trans., to convert into an acronym (chiefly pass. and as pa. pple.).
Also acronymic a.; acronymically adv.; acronyming vbl. n.; acronymize v.
trans."

Nowt there about pronounceability.

I know that some other sources (especially US sources) disagree but I am
sticking with the OED unless and until pointed to persuasive contrary
authority that an acronym has to be pronounceable[2][3]

[1] "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
`it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
[2] In English? Having spent a few days in Basque country in the early
70s what isn't pronounceable at large?
[3] This being uk.d-i-y I shall of course accept (a) "my dad/brother/me
is bigger than yours/you and will beat you up" or (b) "my angle grinder
is bigger than
yours" - especially if you know where I live
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

"Robin" wrote in message
...

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

A few close spaced two foot high fences across the track discourage motor
cyclists without stopping horses.
A lockable gate with a radar key lets the disabled through if they want to
wheel through a foot of horse muck.

On 25 Oct, 21:04, "Robin" wrote:
ITYM "Three Letter Abbreviation" - an acronym has to be pronounceable
as a word - hence the "nym" bit...

Sniff.

I had thought I might adopt the Humpty Dumpty defence [1].

But I think I shall proffer first the plain OED defence and cite the
definition of Acronym form the current online version:

"acronym

A word formed from the initial letters of other words. Hence as v.
trans., to convert into an acronym (chiefly pass. and as pa. pple.).
Also acronymic a.; acronymically adv.; acronyming vbl. n.; acronymize v.
trans."

Nowt there about pronounceability.

I know that some other sources (especially US sources) disagree but I am
sticking with the OED unless and until pointed to persuasive contrary
authority that an acronym has to be pronounceable[2][3]

[1] "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
`it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
[2] In English? Having spent a few days in Basque country in the early
70s what isn't pronounceable at large?
[3] This being uk.d-i-y I shall of course accept (a) "my dad/brother/me
is bigger than yours/you and will beat you up" or (b) "my angle grinder
is bigger than
yours" - especially if you know where I live
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

mmm -seems there amy be further pedantry afoot:-

http://www.examples-help.org.uk/acro...ions/index.htm

"Acronyms, Initials and Abbreviations - What is the Meaning and Origin
of the word Acronym?
The meaning of acromyn is 'A word formed from the initial letters of a
multi-word name'. What is the origin of the word? The word derives
from the Greek word 'acro' meaning 'tip, end' and the English word
'onym' meaning name e.g. NATO or RADAR

Acronyms, Initials and Abbreviations - What is the meaning of Initials
and Initialism?
Initials used as words are called initialism which is defined as an
abbreviation that consists of the initial letters of a series of
words, pronounced in sequence e.g. HTML.

Acronyms, Initials and Abbreviations - What is the Meaning of the word
Abbreviation?
The meaning of abbreviation is a shortened form of a written word or
phrase used in place of the whole e.g. APP for application."

So NATO, COBOL are acronyms?
TDA, ITN, BBC etc are initialisms?
but abbreviations are shortened form of *a* written word (not multiple
word phrases)?

Jim K

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:04:39 +0100, "Robin" wrote:


ITYM "Three Letter Abbreviation" - an acronym has to be pronounceable
as a word - hence the "nym" bit...

Sniff.

I had thought I might adopt the Humpty Dumpty defence [1].

But I think I shall proffer first the plain OED defence and cite the
definition of Acronym form the current online version:

"acronym

A word formed from the initial letters of other words.

Exactly. Note "A word".

--
Frank Erskine

Exactly. Note "A word".

Interesting as the OED gives among its quotations:

"1971 Daily Tel. 3 Feb. 12 Has the Establishment realised, inquires an
acronymically-minded reader, that if the Industrial Relations Bill
becomes law, it will not be only Ireland that is saddled with an IRA?"
I don't recall "IRA" being pronounced other than as the 3 letters.

I should have emphasised that I accept acronym used often (but not
always) to be defined as soemthing pronounceable other than as its
component letters but that I believe that meaning has drifted as
foreseen by the Beeb's h2g2 in 2002 and recognised by Merriam-Webster
earlier this year:

"Acronym" was created by combining "acr-" ("beginning") with "-onym,"
("name" or "word"). You may recognize "-onym" in other familiar English
words such as "pseudonym" and "synonym." English speakers borrowed
"-onym" directly from the Greek (it derives from "onyma," the Greek word
for "name"). "Acr-" is also from Greek, but it made a side trip through
Middle French on its way to English. When "acronym" first entered
English, some usage commentators decreed that it should refer to
combinations of initial letters that were pronounced as if they were
whole words (such as "radar" or "scuba"), differentiated from an
"initialism," which is spoken by pronouncing the component letters (as
"FBI" and "CEO"). These days, however, that distinction is largely lost,
and "acronym" is a common label for both types of abbreviation."


PS

Any why is it that the render I put on the chimney stack in my loft at
~2 pm today still hasn't gone off enough for me to polish it? It was a
1:1:5 mix with FebMix. I'm not that bothered since it's only used for
storing junk and my rendering usually ends up looking like cow pats in
any event. But I did actually read the advice in uk.d-i-y this time and
try.

--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"Robin" wrote in message
...

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all
that far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a
challenge since the DDA.

A few close spaced two foot high fences across the track discourage
motor cyclists without stopping horses.

It's also a obstacle to pedal cyclists.

Ok, a cycle can be lifted over, but it's a PITA if it has to be done to
often. But not everyone finds lifting a cycle easy. If you have a
tandem, or trailer then it's more than just a PITA. (manhandling a kiddy
trailer laden with 2 kids and stuff single handedly over such an
obstruction would be more than a PITA.)


--
Chris French

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 00:37:17 +0100, chris French wrote:

In message , "dennis@home"
writes


"Robin" wrote in message
...

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all
that far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a
challenge since the DDA.

A few close spaced two foot high fences across the track discourage
motor cyclists without stopping horses.

It's also a obstacle to pedal cyclists.

Ok, a cycle can be lifted over, but it's a PITA if it has to be done to
often. But not everyone finds lifting a cycle easy. If you have a
tandem, or trailer then it's more than just a PITA. (manhandling a kiddy
trailer laden with 2 kids and stuff single handedly over such an
obstruction would be more than a PITA.)

Much the same with a tandem trike or, worse, a recumbent tandem trike. So
much for access when only one rider can do any lifting of a vehicle of about
50kg and 3.5m long (not that many BWs are fit for 3" ground clearance!).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 25 Oct, 20:00, "Robin" wrote:

Also (according to a keen horsewoman with whom I used to work) some
equestrian enthusiasts deprecate horse stiles because they cannot be
negotiated by arthritic horses. *

So when did the DDA apply to nags that might be better off as glue?

On 25 Oct, 21:15, "dennis@home" wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message

...



motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all that
far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a challenge
since the DDA.

A few close spaced two foot high fences across the track discourage motor
cyclists without stopping horses.
A lockable gate with a radar key lets the disabled through if they want to
wheel through a foot of horse muck.

mmm nice idea but...
even if these muppets won;t supply "anyone" they appear to have the
profile on a zoomable web pic...

http://www.replacementkeys.co.uk/rad...FVD-2AodIzB_0g

Jim K

On 25 Oct 2010 19:51:22 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2010-10-25, Andy Cap wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2010-10-25, Spamlet wrote:

The 4Wheel Drive clubs are campaigning vigorously for access to all the old
'green lanes' - thereby making them unusable to anyone else:

Garbage.


Out of interest, in what way garbage ?

That they are campaigning vigorously or damaging lanes ?

The latter.

IME horses often cause as much damage to footpaths as do motor
vehicles. Horses have rendered one of my favourite footpaths unusable
for large parts of the year.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 26 Oct, 00:37, chris French
wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes



"Robin" wrote in message
...

motor powered vehciles on Bridelways & footpaths

Ah - you have my sympathy on that one since AIUI (which ain't all
that *far) stopping motorbikes while allowing horses is a bit of a
challenge *since the DDA.

A few close spaced two foot high fences across the track discourage
motor cyclists without stopping horses.

It's also a obstacle to pedal cyclists.


That's a plus, then.

--
Halmyre