Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set repaired,
and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer choice
seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in the
future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we would
benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage of
future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name are
probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth paying
extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of reasonable
quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to keep the
price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth
paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be
"Best Buys" in reviews.
Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD built
in.
I doubt my Panasonic was any much dearer than the equivalent non Freesat
model, but I did shop around and priced matched at Comet with the Richerr
Sounds price.
Regards
David

CRT TVs were invariably repairable.
A CRT TV has a lot of discrete components. A component failure did not
write-off the TV despite a bit of labour involved particularly having
to resolder everything in sight.

LCD & Plasma TVs are invariably not repairable.
An LCD TV is Panel + Processing + Backlight + PSU, and that is about
it. Of those PSU & backlight are replaceable if you have a branded
unit - on cheaper TVs it can prove difficult to source the parts
rendering it landfill..

So look for a TV with free 3yr or 5yr warranty, I say free to the
extent of paying £29 or £75 - but not the overpriced high street
warranties. A flip side is that in 5yrs it may be out of date, but
alternatively not everyone wants to spend £300-500 every 5yrs.

Panel type matters if you are viewing from below the TV or around a
room.
TN panels do 6-bit colour with limited viewing angle (contrast lost &
colours go AWOL), whereas (S-)PVA & (S-)IPS do 8-bit colour with wider
viewing angle before suffering degradation. If you are used to CRT, no
LCD is a perfect replacement - the top ones are good on foliage &
particularly sea scenes, but not so good on dark scenes & human face
colours. In particular the cheaper panels can do quite poorly re dark
scenes & suffer backlight "spotlight casts".

Plasma do a lot better, there used to be a good Hitachi unit quite
cheaply at Richer Sounds. On plasma you really do want a free 5yr
warranty - they run hotter, consumer more power, more dependent on
active cooling (fans).

Check Online, Richer Sounds, John Lewis, even the local supermarket.

Samsung have good picture, the smaller end models can have diabolical
sound (3W mono cassette recorder). Toshiba have good picture, not so
good sound. Hitachi a bit better. Sony & Panasonic better. Now gone
Pioneer plasma the best at a price to match. No-name can be variable.
The better models have better sound, not just better picture BTW.

Shop LCD are rarely set up correctly.
The most immediate thing to change is the noise reduction & sharpness
settings, too high a sharpness setting and it looks like a jaggy
grainy jiggery computer image. If you can see motion judder you need a
better TV, some cheap TVs suffer it quite badly on motion and even the
major names can suffer it slightly on slow panning of foliage scenes.
Some people are very sensitive to it and once pointed out to them or
noticed they do not like it.

Look for Freeview HD if you want to avoid another box. You can often
pick up last years models very cheaply, eg, Asda & Sainsburys, however
check what the specs are. A while back the typical cost-cutting was a
cheaper panel or cheap sound or one HDMI input. Today another item to
check is no Freeview HD built-in.

Tesco Direct is another good source - and check on Ebay because they
have a refurbished store. I think they do various LG & other TVs are
heavily discounted prices, refurbished, 12 months warranty. LG are
Lucky Goldstar of Tottenham Court road fame in the early 1980s and
slightly below Samsung, although both LG & Samsung PSU designs are a
weak point (on anything).

Amazon UK website is a good place to read reviews, just read the bad
ones first because they are often from people who can tell the
difference between a junk TN panel and IPS panel rather than someone
who just stuck an Xbox on it.

In article ,
"David" writes:


"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth
paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be
"Best Buys" in reviews.
Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD built
in.
I doubt my Panasonic was any much dearer than the equivalent non Freesat
model, but I did shop around and priced matched at Comet with the Richerr
Sounds price.

Check out Costco too, if you have a card, or are eligable for one.
A couple of friends ended up buying TVs on my card last year,
as they were over £100 cheaper than high street for a £500 TV,
and that included a 5 year guarantee. High street shops probably
won't price-match Costco.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
"David" writes:


"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth
paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be
"Best Buys" in reviews.
Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD built
in.
I doubt my Panasonic was any much dearer than the equivalent non Freesat
model, but I did shop around and priced matched at Comet with the Richerr
Sounds price.

Check out Costco too, if you have a card, or are eligable for one.
A couple of friends ended up buying TVs on my card last year,
as they were over £100 cheaper than high street for a £500 TV,
and that included a 5 year guarantee. High street shops probably
won't price-match Costco.

Seconded, the TV I bought last year (or was it the year before, maybe I
should join the silversurfers ...) from Richer Sounds was cheaper and
had a longer warranty in Costco



--
geoff

On Jul 25, 2:25*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

We still have a CRT. I hope it keeps going because all the LCDs I've
seen have been pretty poor in comparison.

In message
,
js.b1 writes
CRT TVs were invariably repairable.
A CRT TV has a lot of discrete components. A component failure did not
write-off the TV despite a bit of labour involved particularly having
to resolder everything in sight.

It does in most cases - all the TV repair shops around here have gone.
Unless you know what you are doing, TV repair is becoming a thing of the
past


--
geoff

js.b1
wibbled on Sunday 25 July 2010 14:25


Panel type matters if you are viewing from below the TV or around a
room.
TN panels do 6-bit colour with limited viewing angle (contrast lost &
colours go AWOL), whereas (S-)PVA & (S-)IPS do 8-bit colour with wider
viewing angle before suffering degradation. If you are used to CRT, no
LCD is a perfect replacement - the top ones are good on foliage &
particularly sea scenes, but not so good on dark scenes & human face
colours. In particular the cheaper panels can do quite poorly re dark
scenes & suffer backlight "spotlight casts".

Agree. Half the quality is to do with the Panel. Sony Bravia panels are
brilliant, but many Samsungs have the same panel - do some reading and know
what's in the set. Panel is everything for vibrance, contrast (blacks on
LCDs are sometimes not actually very black - look for the contrast ratio
figures). And as js says, viewing angle. I have 2 Samsungs. One 42" decent
on with a Sony panel and it is brilliant. And one little cheap one that is
OK until you look at it from the floor and it blacks out fast below 0
degrees.

snip


Samsung have good picture, the smaller end models can have diabolical
sound (3W mono cassette recorder). Toshiba have good picture, not so
good sound. Hitachi a bit better. Sony & Panasonic better. Now gone
Pioneer plasma the best at a price to match. No-name can be variable.
The better models have better sound, not just better picture BTW.

The other thing you get with a decent make is more likely a decent decoder.
It's not just about reception and picture anymore - with DTV it's aboout how
good the MPEG decoder is. Some are bloody awful with rapid degeneration to
artifacts and motion blur, and coupled with a poor tuner that takes ages to
lock on and present the multiplexes, leads to a crap viewing experience. OK
for a kitchen table TV, but you'd want to avoid such nastinesses on your
main set.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:41:35 +0100, "john hamilton"
wrote:

Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set repaired,
and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer choice
seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in the
future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we would
benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage of
future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name are
probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth paying
extra for a Japanese name?

[snip]

My impression is that 'Japanese' sets are usually assembled in eastern
Europe. My Sony was assembled in Slovakia.

"David" wrote in message
:

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth
paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be
"Best Buys" in reviews.
Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD built
in.

One problem with built in tuners is that, as far as I am aware, most of
those sets don't have a hard drive and recording facility built in, thus
necessitating another box as well. Similarly, if the tuner "breaks" for
any reason, you need to buy the whole new TV. Another problem is that if
(more likely when) there are new technological developments you have to
get a new TV set to upgrade, whereas a separate box is cheaper and
easier to change. Perhaps the best way at the moment is to have a TV set
with Freeview HD built in, and a separate Freesat box. I'd do it that
way as most new developments are likely to be available on satellite
first, and in most areas (unless you're in a very good terrestrial
reception area) the HD picture will most likely be better on satellite.
My set only has an ordinary terrestrial tuner built in (HD terrestrial
didn't exist when I bought it) but it makes a useful backup (and gives
you a few more channels) on the very rare occasions (exceptionally heavy
rain or snow) when satellite reception is not 100%.

Back to John's original question as to which brand of TV, I think the
same applies as to most things, you get what you pay for. I would always
go for the best brand that I could afford. I picked a Samsung, but would
have bought Panasonic or Sony (the latter somewhat overpriced) if not. I
paid a little more for mine by buying from John Lewis, but got a five
year guarantee for free, making it more or less the same as the cheaper
suppliers with a guarantee added. The satellite PVR is a Humax Foxsat.


Regards,

Bob

john hamilton wrote:
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the
sheer choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime
in the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that
means we would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to
take advantage of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand
name are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its
not worth paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would
prefer to keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any
advice.

Panasonic from Richer Sounds

In article , geoff
scribeth thus
In message
,
js.b1 writes
CRT TVs were invariably repairable.
A CRT TV has a lot of discrete components. A component failure did not
write-off the TV despite a bit of labour involved particularly having
to resolder everything in sight.

It does in most cases - all the TV repair shops around here have gone.
Unless you know what you are doing, TV repair is becoming a thing of the
past



Don't think its knowing what your doing, its just Joe Publicke doesn't
want to pay anything to have anything repaired any longer...

--
Tony Sayer

Bob Henson wrote:


"David" wrote in message
:

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the
sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take
advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not
worth
paying extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would
prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



I have a Panasonic with Freesat HD built in, Panasonic always seem to be
"Best Buys" in reviews.
Personally would not buy a new TV without a Freesat HD or Freeview HD
built
in.

One problem with built in tuners is that, as far as I am aware, most of
those sets don't have a hard drive and recording facility built in, thus
necessitating another box as well. Similarly, if the tuner "breaks" for
any reason, you need to buy the whole new TV. Another problem is that if
(more likely when) there are new technological developments you have to
get a new TV set to upgrade, whereas a separate box is cheaper and
easier to change. Perhaps the best way at the moment is to have a TV set
with Freeview HD built in, and a separate Freesat box. I'd do it that
way as most new developments are likely to be available on satellite
first, and in most areas (unless you're in a very good terrestrial
reception area) the HD picture will most likely be better on satellite.
My set only has an ordinary terrestrial tuner built in (HD terrestrial
didn't exist when I bought it) but it makes a useful backup (and gives
you a few more channels) on the very rare occasions (exceptionally heavy
rain or snow) when satellite reception is not 100%.

Back to John's original question as to which brand of TV, I think the
same applies as to most things, you get what you pay for. I would always
go for the best brand that I could afford. I picked a Samsung, but would
have bought Panasonic or Sony (the latter somewhat overpriced) if not. I
paid a little more for mine by buying from John Lewis, but got a five
year guarantee for free, making it more or less the same as the cheaper
suppliers with a guarantee added. The satellite PVR is a Humax Foxsat.


Regards,

Bob



Having a built in tuner doesn't prevent you from having an external box,
or boxes.

--
Adrian

In message , Bob Henson
writes


"David" wrote in message
:

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.


One problem with built in tuners is that, as far as I am aware, most of
those sets don't have a hard drive and recording facility built in,
thus necessitating another box as well. Similarly, if the tuner
"breaks" for any reason, you need to buy the whole new TV.

Most come with tuners built in nowadays


Back to John's original question as to which brand of TV, I think the
same applies as to most things, you get what you pay for. I would
always go for the best brand that I could afford. I picked a Samsung,
but would have bought Panasonic or Sony (the latter somewhat
overpriced) if not. I paid a little more for mine by buying from John
Lewis, but got a five year guarantee for free, making it more or less
the same as the cheaper suppliers with a guarantee added. The satellite
PVR is a Humax Foxsat.


I think in these throwaway days, where greenwash is paid no more than
lipservice, very little is economically repairable, unless it is a
really trivial problem

You might be surprised to know that even central heating boilers are
expected to only have a 5-7- year life now

So much for conserving resources

Don't buy too big if you are watching it in a small room

An important consideration is what inputs it has. If, for example, you
have only a SCART output from a video and your TV doesn't you would be a
bit buggered

Panasonic are I think good TVs, I have a Sharp, and while the picture is
good, I find it slow and it's response to the remote clumsy.




--
geoff

In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?


We still have a CRT. I hope it keeps going because all the LCDs I've
seen have been pretty poor in comparison.



--
geoff

On 25/07/2010 13:41, john hamilton wrote:
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set repaired,
and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer choice
seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in the
future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we would
benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage of
future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name are
probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth paying
extra for a Japanese name?

Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of reasonable
quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to keep the
price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



looking for the 'made in' label can be like the bran tub. you just do
not know, and these days it can be anywhere at all. one thing though,
each manufacturer, whilst using foreign labour and expertise to
assemble, have their own specifications. chances are that the components
all come from the same source. I should think that it is as it always
has been with these things, each Brand has it's own quality, some better
than others

"mike" wrote in message
...
On Jul 25, 2:25 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

- Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
- so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Flat panels are that much cheaper and more convenient to ship, warehouse and
display in the showroom. Certainly for the equivalent size screen, The same
may go for manufacturing costs. And so any "benefits" are pushed to the exclusion
of everything else.
Exactly the same applies with portable computers. 20 years ago anyone with any
knowledge of ergonomics would have explained that the relative position
of the keyboard and screen in laptops means that anyone using one for extended
periods could expect serious neck problems after about 10 years of use.
For executives travelling on planes or trains that was no problem.
But now they're the preferred choice of home computer for almost everyone.
Simply because they take up that much lesss space in a container, warehouse or
showroom. So they're promoted to the exclusion of almost everything else



- We still have a CRT. I hope it keeps going because all the LCDs I've
- seen have been pretty poor in comparison.

Indeed. The only incontestable benefit of all flat panels is however the much
smaller footprint. To fit an equivalent size of CRT to the larger flat panels
into many smaller modern rooms, would mean almost having the viewers knees
touching the screen. So its often more a case of never mind the quality feel
the width.


michael adams

....

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , geoff
scribeth thus
In message
,
js.b1 writes
CRT TVs were invariably repairable.
A CRT TV has a lot of discrete components. A component failure did not
write-off the TV despite a bit of labour involved particularly having
to resolder everything in sight.

It does in most cases - all the TV repair shops around here have gone.
Unless you know what you are doing, TV repair is becoming a thing of the
past



Don't think its knowing what your doing, its just Joe Publicke doesn't
want to pay anything to have anything repaired any longer...

--
Tony Sayer


Not always true.

I took my Makita drill in for repair. The final repair bill was more than
the cost of a new drill. I told them to keep the drill and walked out of the
shop. I did get a letter threatening me with court action over non payment
but nothing ever happened.
I suspect that the repairer was working on a "lets see if swapping this part
will fix it" basis instead of finding the fault and swapping the faulty
part.

When one of my computer monitors packed in I found it cheaper to buy a
bigger and better second hand one from ebay for less than a repair would
have cost.

Cheers

Adam

CRT are gone due to component count, assembly cycle time, profit
margins. CRT are still made for a lot of the rest-of-world, but
quality is someway down (or rather calibration is someway down).

LCD are winning due to economy of scale, particularly "sweet spot
size", driving down cost & maintaining profit margins. A case of a
cash-cow replacing cash-dog where CRT are concerned.

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:41:35 +0100, john hamilton wrote:

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen.

I wouldn't touch an LCD panel with a barge pole. They aren't as a bad
as they where for smearing on movement but they still aren't good.
The crystals take a finite time to move, they just can't colour
change fast enough. Then there is the lack of decent black and the
viewing angle restrictions.

Sometime in the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess
that means we would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to
take advantage of future high definition broadcasts.

Definitely, make sure the native panel resolution is at least 1920 x
1080. I'm not sure that the "Full HD 1080p" marketing sticker means
that. The "HD Ready" one isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

See if the makers have the user manual on their website, it's always
worth a read before you buy both for the proper specs and to see what
features the marketing has missed out.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not
worth paying extra for a Japanese name?

We have a Pansonic plasma Full HD 1080p 1920 x 1080 native resolution
and HD stuff does look like an open window (even off air, Blu-ray is
even better). The label on the back says assembled in the Czech
Republic.
This set is a 42" plasma but it doesn't have any fans, most of the
300W odd of waste heat seems to come out the front...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"geoff" wrote in message
:

You might be surprised to know that even central heating boilers are
expected to only have a 5-7- year life now

I'm not that surprised. Mine has been running for 20 years, and I'm
resisting all attempts to persuade me to change it until it goes
altogether. On something as low-tech and yet as highly priced as a
boiler it's a disgrace that the expected life is so short.


Regards,

Bob

In message , Adrian
writes
Having a built in tuner doesn't prevent you from having an external
box, or boxes.
My experience with 4 Freeview boxes and a Sony TV and Sony recorder
might be relevant.

The bunch of no-marks who "planned" the digital changeover have stuck
Welsh TV onto a mast designed to face the opposite way and provide the
sheltered-from-Winter Hill, Mersey shores of Liverpool with English TV.
This mast is now pointing Welsh at the mainly English speaking Welsh
banks of the Dee and in the process has made reception in this part of
Cheshire pretty weird. Polarisation and channels of these backward
facing Welsh are virtually the same as WH, so this is a real test of the
logic of tuner set up procedures.
The 2 Sony devices have different channel setup logic, one set itself up
automatically, the other needed simple human input.
All 4 Freeview boxes are different and all are almost impossible to set
up. We eventually gave up on my sis-in-law's unit and I wrote out a
small chart saying things like BBC1 = 57, BBC2 = 73 (numbers made up,
but similar, as I can't remember). My PVR from Maplin can and has been
set up, but it involved many passes through the set up procedure and I
can't be bothered going beyond Channel 5. One other didn't work at all
(money back after 2 samples tried). The final one is in a box in the
loft and I can't remember the problem, but it was something to do with
channel allocations. All these were dubious makes, badged things like
Nikkai.

The moral is.... Buy a known make and make sure you can return it.
--
Bill

On Sunday, July 25th, 2010 16:10:49 +0100, Bill explained:

so this is a real test of the logic of tuner set up procedures.

If you have a digital converter box which allows you to reposition
the LCN of stations on the EPG such as the Sony VTX-D800U, then
any such problem of receiving stations from multiple transmitters
can readily be solved, except for the annoyance of when having
to do the regular re-scan for changes to the EPG.

This allows you for example to ensure the Channel 4 is on 4,
and instead of having a duplicate Channel 4 on 8, you can put
S4C there and continue to enjoy Pobol y Cwm each weeknight at
20:00h (with English sub-titles).

"Pobol y Cwm has beaten off competition from EastEnders and Doctors
to win a Mental Health in the Media Award in the soaps and continuing
drama category."

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:56:39 +0100, michael adams wrote:

Indeed. The only incontestable benefit of all flat panels is however the
much smaller footprint. To fit an equivalent size of CRT to the larger
flat panels into many smaller modern rooms, would mean almost having the
viewers knees touching the screen.

If you have the TV in the middle of a wall and not, like most people,
in a corner. A flat panel across a corner takes just as much room
space as a CRT.

--
Cheers
Dave.

john hamilton burst on the scene, and said:


Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand
name are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan?

Not necessarily. Many of the best known Japanese companies have
manufacturing bases in Europe. My new (three days old) Samsung monitor
was made in Hungary.

I think it's always best to go for a brand that you recognise and has a
track record of good after-sales service, which should apply regardless
of where the actual factory is located As others have said, 'you get
what you pay for'.

--
Michaelangelo
www.flickr.com/photos/mikenagel

Self-catering, holiday accommodation in the Scottish Highlands - for
disabled people:
www.woodhead-cottage.co.uk

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:03:40 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

You might be surprised to know that even central heating boilers
are
expected to only have a 5-7- year life now

I'm not that surprised. Mine has been running for 20 years, and I'm
resisting all attempts to persuade me to change it until it goes
altogether. On something as low-tech and yet as highly priced as a
boiler it's a disgrace that the expected life is so short.

Modern boilers are no longer low-tech as in BFO burner and lump of
cast iron through which water circulates possibly under nothing more
than the influence of gravity. Modern boilers have modulating
burners, several safety interlocks and their sensors, complex low
capacity ali heat exchangers that *must* have water flow for a while
after the burner cuts out, etc etc and recover heat from the flu
gases. Far to many bits to go wrong these days.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?

The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Michaelangelo writes:
john hamilton burst on the scene, and said:


Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand
name are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan?

Not necessarily. Many of the best known Japanese companies have
manufacturing bases in Europe. My new (three days old) Samsung monitor
was made in Hungary.

My 8 month old Samsung monitor is made in Romania.
Very happy with it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"john hamilton" wrote in message
...
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set
repaired, and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer
choice seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in
the future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we
would benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage
of future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name
are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? for a Japanese name?

No Korea, where Philips and LG set up the original facilities.

Probably not - LG will do fine. Skip Philips - they bodged the firmware and
w/could not fix it.


Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of
reasonable quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to
keep the price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.

On Jul 25, 6:37*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Price depends on volume, and as LCDs became popular and CRT sales
volume fell, CRT prices go north. Manufacturers wantt o get into LCDs
before that point so they can keep up with ongoing product development
rather than being left behind.

CRT sets are easy to buy of course, they're just all used sets now.


Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?

there's no shortage of either, but why would a manufacturer invest in
an obsolescent technology like fim cameras.
Most HDD sellers still have IDEs


The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.


As was said a few posts up, CRTs still win in every respect bar one,
ie that LCDs look better when off. I wouldnt rule out CRT TVs yet.


NT

In message
, NT
writes
On Jul 25, 6:37*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25*pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Price depends on volume, and as LCDs became popular and CRT sales
volume fell, CRT prices go north. Manufacturers wantt o get into LCDs
before that point so they can keep up with ongoing product development
rather than being left behind.

CRT sets are easy to buy of course, they're just all used sets now.


Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?

there's no shortage of either, but why would a manufacturer invest in
an obsolescent technology like fim cameras.
Most HDD sellers still have IDEs


The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.


As was said a few posts up, CRTs still win in every respect bar one,
ie that LCDs look better when off. I wouldnt rule out CRT TVs yet.

Well, if as Andrew says "The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed
down." , I think you might have to



--
geoff

john hamilton wrote:
Have now given up on the idea of having our old crt television set repaired,
and am looking at the televisions listed in Argos etc, the sheer choice
seems a bit daunting.

We thought we would go for a new 40 or 42" LCD flat screen. Sometime in the
future we would get a FreeSat digital box, so I guess that means we would
benefit from the 1080p resolution spec on the set to take advantage of
future high definition broadcasts.

Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand name are
probably manufactured in China or Taiwan? If so I guess its not worth paying
extra for a Japanese name?

Maybe it is.

Sony software is IME a bit better. OK the LCD is the same probably, but
what drives it may be somewhat better.

There are some downright irritating users interfaces out there, and
having processing power on digital signals that cant keep up with rapid
picture change, or possibly interpolate data to give the most pleasant
results from a limited bandwidth compressed stream.

Fortunately, the TV showroom is your friend. If they wont watch you
select a bunch of different channels, and play with the controls, find a
shop that will.

Pick one that seems best to YOU on the stuff YOU lie to watch, after
you have reset the color balance of course. The most telling trick is to
make the cheaper TV look crap by maladjusting it.



Grateful for any advice on what you might think is a good buy of reasonable
quality around at the moment, bearing in mind I would prefer to keep the
price down if possible. Many thanks for any advice.



Best bargain I saw was a repaired 36" CRT set for 30 quid. Very tempted.
I have a few STB's.

geoff wrote:
In message
, NT
writes
On Jul 25, 6:37 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Price depends on volume, and as LCDs became popular and CRT sales
volume fell, CRT prices go north. Manufacturers wantt o get into LCDs
before that point so they can keep up with ongoing product development
rather than being left behind.

CRT sets are easy to buy of course, they're just all used sets now.


Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?

there's no shortage of either, but why would a manufacturer invest in
an obsolescent technology like fim cameras.
Most HDD sellers still have IDEs


The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.


As was said a few posts up, CRTs still win in every respect bar one,
ie that LCDs look better when off. I wouldnt rule out CRT TVs yet.

Well, if as Andrew says "The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed
down." , I think you might have to



Loads of life left in S/H CRT's

I've owned 25yr + CRT TVs. Still going reasonably well although the guns
were getting weak.

Cheap as chips to pick up a 5 year old analogue set with a SCART on it
to attach an STB.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
geoff wrote:
In message
,
NT writes
On Jul 25, 6:37 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Price depends on volume, and as LCDs became popular and CRT sales
volume fell, CRT prices go north. Manufacturers wantt o get into LCDs
before that point so they can keep up with ongoing product development
rather than being left behind.

CRT sets are easy to buy of course, they're just all used sets now.


Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately, or an
IDE hard drive?

there's no shortage of either, but why would a manufacturer invest in
an obsolescent technology like fim cameras.
Most HDD sellers still have IDEs


The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.


As was said a few posts up, CRTs still win in every respect bar one,
ie that LCDs look better when off. I wouldnt rule out CRT TVs yet.

Well, if as Andrew says "The last factory mass producing TV tubes
closed down." , I think you might have to

Loads of life left in S/H CRT's

I've owned 25yr + CRT TVs. Still going reasonably well although the
guns were getting weak.

Cheap as chips to pick up a 5 year old analogue set with a SCART on it
to attach an STB.

Unlikely to see shop windows full of them, though, I think

--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher
wibbled on Sunday 25 July 2010 20:22


Fortunately, the TV showroom is your friend. If they wont watch you
select a bunch of different channels, and play with the controls, find a
shop that will.

Neither Comet and Curries round T Wells have a real aerial feed which makes
testing impossible.

Couldn't believe it - I did have a major go at them before wandering off
somewhere else.

Bit like PC World not having WiFI while trying to flog iPads and related
stuff - what ****tards run these places?...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

geoff wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
geoff wrote:
In message
,
NT writes
On Jul 25, 6:37 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message
,
mike writes
On Jul 25, 2:25 pm, "js.b1" wrote:

If you are used to CRT, no LCD is a perfect replacement

Given that, until a few years ago, we were all used to CRT, how come
so many have gone over to LCD and CRT are now impossible to buy new?

Life moves on

Price depends on volume, and as LCDs became popular and CRT sales
volume fell, CRT prices go north. Manufacturers wantt o get into LCDs
before that point so they can keep up with ongoing product development
rather than being left behind.

CRT sets are easy to buy of course, they're just all used sets now.


Have you tried buying a camera that takes emulsion film lately,
or an
IDE hard drive?

there's no shortage of either, but why would a manufacturer invest in
an obsolescent technology like fim cameras.
Most HDD sellers still have IDEs


The last factory mass producing TV tubes closed down.
There is still a small requirement for CRTs for other
purposes, but apparently the price of such tubes has
jumped almost 10 fold.

BTW, I bought a 250GB IDE drive about a year ago, and
they are still around, even though SATA overtook IDE (PATA)
in 2004 in terms of quantities manufacturered.


As was said a few posts up, CRTs still win in every respect bar one,
ie that LCDs look better when off. I wouldnt rule out CRT TVs yet.

Well, if as Andrew says "The last factory mass producing TV tubes
closed down." , I think you might have to

Loads of life left in S/H CRT's

I've owned 25yr + CRT TVs. Still going reasonably well although the
guns were getting weak.

Cheap as chips to pick up a 5 year old analogue set with a SCART on
it to attach an STB.

Unlikely to see shop windows full of them, though, I think

do you want cheap, or do you want shop? :-)

I saw one in an independent TV shop - he fixed it for a customer, who
decided he didn't want it and traded it for a new set.

Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher
wibbled on Sunday 25 July 2010 20:22

Fortunately, the TV showroom is your friend. If they wont watch you
select a bunch of different channels, and play with the controls, find a
shop that will.

Neither Comet and Curries round T Wells have a real aerial feed which makes
testing impossible.

well **** them, then.


Couldn't believe it - I did have a major go at them before wandering off
somewhere else.

Bit like PC World not having WiFI while trying to flog iPads and related
stuff - what ****tards run these places?...

You dont want to know. They are completely clueless.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Tim Watts wrote:
The Natural Philosopher
wibbled on Sunday 25 July 2010 20:22

Fortunately, the TV showroom is your friend. If they wont watch you
select a bunch of different channels, and play with the controls, find a
shop that will.

Neither Comet and Curries round T Wells have a real aerial feed which
makes testing impossible.

well **** them, then.


Is that allowed?

Adam

On 25/07/2010 17:07, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:03:40 +0000, Bob Henson wrote:

You might be surprised to know that even central heating boilers
are
expected to only have a 5-7- year life now

I'm not that surprised. Mine has been running for 20 years, and I'm
resisting all attempts to persuade me to change it until it goes
altogether. On something as low-tech and yet as highly priced as a
boiler it's a disgrace that the expected life is so short.

Modern boilers are no longer low-tech as in BFO burner and lump of
cast iron through which water circulates possibly under nothing more
than the influence of gravity. Modern boilers have modulating
burners, several safety interlocks and their sensors, complex low
capacity ali heat exchangers that *must* have water flow for a while
after the burner cuts out, etc etc and recover heat from the flu
gases. Far to many bits to go wrong these days.

That's just the reason we opted for a standard boiler before the new
regs cam in.

Dave

On 25/07/2010 17:07, Michaelangelo wrote:
john hamilton burst on the scene, and said:


Am I right in thinking that most of these sets, whatever the brand
name are probably manufactured in China or Taiwan?

Not necessarily. Many of the best known Japanese companies have
manufacturing bases in Europe. My new (three days old) Samsung monitor
was made in Hungary.

I think it's always best to go for a brand that you recognise and has a
track record of good after-sales service, which should apply regardless
of where the actual factory is located As others have said, 'you get
what you pay for'.

Having been a big fan of Panasonic goods, I have never had to use their
after sales service. I think a better way of doing this is for someone
to create a web site, or wiki of manufacturers product satisfaction.

Dave