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#1
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up
- water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine -- Chris French |
#2
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:33:01 +0000, chris French wrote:
The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up - water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Black magic, I always think. Most of the DIY books have an explanation. Ours did the same last week. It was a tiny bit of grit in the needle- sized hole in the outer cap - the hole that gets covered by the small circular rubber pad on the float arm attachment. I used a needle and air to clear it...at 12.30 a.m.! -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org |
#3
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
In article ,
chris French wrote: but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine That's a good question. I have no idea either. ;-) -- *Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#4
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:48:48 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Black magic, I always think. Most of the DIY books have an explanation. Indeed :-) It's what's called an equilibrium valve. The basic principle is that water pressure bears on both sides of the rubber diaphragm but there's more surface area exposed to the water on the side that presses the diaphragm against the inlet shutting off the water flow. But on that side there's a tiny hole - the one you see which gets covered by the tiny rubber bung attached to the float arm. When the float drops and uncovers the hole it takes away the pressure holding the valve shut and water runs through the valve, filling the cistern until the float rises and closes the hole whereupon the pressure on that side closes the valve again. Neat, huh? ;-) -- John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk "I used to think correlation implied causation. Then I took a statistics course and now I don't." "Sounds as if the statistics course helped." "Well, maybe." |
#5
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
"chris French" wrote in message
... The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up - water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Peter Crosland |
#6
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 16:19:45 +0000, YAPH wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:48:48 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Black magic, I always think. Most of the DIY books have an explanation. Indeed :-) It's what's called an equilibrium valve. The basic principle is that water pressure bears on both sides of the rubber diaphragm but there's more surface area exposed to the water on the side that presses the diaphragm against the inlet shutting off the water flow. But on that side there's a tiny hole - the one you see which gets covered by the tiny rubber bung attached to the float arm. When the float drops and uncovers the hole it takes away the pressure holding the valve shut and water runs through the valve, filling the cistern until the float rises and closes the hole whereupon the pressure on that side closes the valve again. Neat, huh? ;-) Until the hole gets blocked...they are very prone to dirt, etc. When they've been repairing water mains nearby, or when they suddenly decided to fit an external stoptap without telling us, dirt got in and buggered it up...! -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org |
#7
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
YAPH wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:48:48 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Black magic, I always think. Most of the DIY books have an explanation. Indeed :-) It's what's called an equilibrium valve. The basic principle is that water pressure bears on both sides of the rubber diaphragm but there's more surface area exposed to the water on the side that presses the diaphragm against the inlet shutting off the water flow. But on that side there's a tiny hole - the one you see which gets covered by the tiny rubber bung attached to the float arm. When the float drops and uncovers the hole it takes away the pressure holding the valve shut and water runs through the valve, filling the cistern until the float rises and closes the hole whereupon the pressure on that side closes the valve again. Neat, huh? ;-) They work on the same principal as the air valves in an aircraft's equipment cooling and air conditioning system. I had to go on a weeks course to learn how it worked, but the most eye opening thing was how the cockpit cooling was done, just using engine bleed air to cool the crew down. It works on the same principle as a fridge or air con unit by compressing the coolant (air) to make it warm and then letting it expand, so cooling it and dumping the heat. There were no motors involved, it was all done by air driven devices. Dave |
#8
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
Peter Crosland wrote:
"chris French" wrote in message ... The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up - water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Agreed - spawn of the devil. Agin nature. Bring back the good old ball valve. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#9
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om... Peter Crosland wrote: "chris French" wrote in message ... The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up - water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Agreed - spawn of the devil. Agin nature. Bring back the good old ball valve. Second only to the Saniflo but at least the Torbeck is relatively clean! Peter Crosland |
#10
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:33:05 +0000, "Peter Crosland"
wibbled: "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message om... Peter Crosland wrote: "chris French" wrote in message ... The Torbeck valve for one of the toilet cisterns seems to have packed up - water only comes out through the bit where the float arm attaches, not through the actual filler. I've fiddled around with it a bit but it's still not working - I think I'll just replace it rather than waste time anyway. but how do the things actually work - it's not obvious from looking at mine Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Agreed - spawn of the devil. Agin nature. Bring back the good old ball valve. Second only to the Saniflo but at least the Torbeck is relatively clean! Peter Crosland Thank you all. I'll be plumbing my new bog soon. It came with a Torbeck valve. It looks very fliddy. After reading this, I'm off to look for a better valve/float assembly. -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#11
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On 24 Jan, 19:22, "The Medway Handyman" davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Agreed - spawn of the devil. *Agin nature. *Bring back the good old ball valve. Ball valves? Croydon valves (the sliding plunger) did, I suppose, keep a lot of handymen employed (hmmm....) but they were rubbish at gradually leaking. Torbecks, IMHE, have been utterly reliable, fast-filling and quiet. OTOH, I haven't lived anywhere with hard water in years. At present I've inherited some crappy American thing (dark grey, float wraps the upstand pipe) and it just doesn't get on with a UK syphon. It starts to refill instantly, so that if you let it fill at anything more than a trickle it doesn't let the syphon break and so it's continually semi-flushing indefinitely. Trying to throttle it with the service ballvalve makes it noisy, slow and requires fiddling from time to time. I have no intention of fitting the matching US-style flapper valve, lest the unquiet spirit of Thomas Crapper return and haunt me when that starts wasting water.. |
#12
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
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#13
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Agreed - spawn of the devil. Agin nature. Bring back the good old ball valve. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk ......so if you can't be bothered to understand it then you should condemn it? |
#14
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
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#15
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
John wrote:
Hard to describe but think pressure differentials. They are a real pain in the proverbial. Replace it with another type. Agreed - spawn of the devil. Agin nature. Bring back the good old ball valve. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk .....so if you can't be bothered to understand it then you should condemn it? But I do understand it. And I've had to sort out loads of the buggers. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#16
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
In message , Roger Mills
writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, wrote: On 24 Jan, Tim Watts wrote: Thank you all. I'll be plumbing my new bog soon. It came with a Torbeck valve. It looks very fliddy. After reading this, I'm off to look for a better valve/float assembly. I've torbecks in the two bogs and the loft tank. Much quieter than the non-equilibrium kind, and I've had no bother with them in well over ten years. Agreed. Because the float only has a very short arm, it's only in the water for the last little bit of fill - so you get full flow until the cistern is virtually full, whereas a conventional float valve starts to shut off much earlier. The one I've now just replaced (wasn't worth fiddling with IMO) had quite likely been there since the bathroom was installed - 20 years? The one I fitted in my old house new cistern worked fine for about 5 years before I moved here. Anyway, I'm not sure an alternative valve would fit. It is a shallow depth , built in cistern so there isn't much space in there. Anyway, thanks folks i understand how they work now. -- Chris French |
#17
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
wrote in message ... On 24 Jan, Tim Watts wrote: Thank you all. I'll be plumbing my new bog soon. It came with a Torbeck valve. It looks very fliddy. After reading this, I'm off to look for a better valve/float assembly. I've torbecks in the two bogs and the loft tank. Much quieter than the non-equilibrium kind, and I've had no bother with them in well over ten years. I'm with you about liking my Torbeck, the water either runs full rate or not at all, rather than a ball balve progressively reducing the rate to a dribble before the level is high enough to prime the siphon. The same toilet has got a "Pacific" siphon with a wrinkled rubber seal and I can't get a replacement.That can be a nuisance, good job I'm not on a meter. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
#18
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:49:08 +0000, "Graham." wibbled:
wrote in message ... On 24 Jan, Tim Watts wrote: Thank you all. I'll be plumbing my new bog soon. It came with a Torbeck valve. It looks very fliddy. After reading this, I'm off to look for a better valve/float assembly. I've torbecks in the two bogs and the loft tank. Much quieter than the non-equilibrium kind, and I've had no bother with them in well over ten years. I'm with you about liking my Torbeck, the water either runs full rate or not at all, rather than a ball balve progressively reducing the rate to a dribble before the level is high enough to prime the siphon. The same toilet has got a "Pacific" siphon with a wrinkled rubber seal and I can't get a replacement.That can be a nuisance, good job I'm not on a meter. Very polarised opinions on Torbecks... Seems to be a love them or hate them? -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#19
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On 26 Jan, 14:37, Tim Watts wrote:
Very polarised opinions on Torbecks... Seems to be a love them or hate them? Most people love how they work, some report problems with limescale on the tiny valve hole. If you're in a soft water area, no problem. |
#20
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
Andy Dingley
wibbled on Tuesday 26 January 2010 15:28 On 26 Jan, 14:37, Tim Watts wrote: Very polarised opinions on Torbecks... Seems to be a love them or hate them? Most people love how they work, some report problems with limescale on the tiny valve hole. If you're in a soft water area, no problem. And don;t have crud in the pipe ;- On that subject, I'd been wondering why the bath tap was running too hot (4l/min flow restrictor is fitted in a special ball valve to match the characteristics of my temporary water heater). Took the insert out and found a neat spiral of alkathene (I'm guesssing - it was plastic and black) swarf 1.5cm long lodged in the restrictor blocking one of the 4 tiny holes. I had thoroughly flushed the main pipe after I did the work re-routing the water mains, but I guess a bit of pipe trimming must have lodged somewhere only to fall off later... -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#21
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
In article ,
wrote: On 26 Jan, Andy Dingley wrote: On 26 Jan, 14:37, Tim Watts wrote: Very polarised opinions on Torbecks... Seems to be a love them or hate them? Most people love how they work, some report problems with limescale on the tiny valve hole. If you're in a soft water area, no problem. That could be it, soft water, I've three of them, no problems, quiet, fast filling etc. It's pretty hard water in this part of London and the one in my toilet lasted 20 years or so. Might have been able to repair it with a kit if I understood how they worked - but a complete one didn't break the bank and was worth it for the silence... -- *Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#22
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes In article , wrote: On 26 Jan, Andy Dingley wrote: On 26 Jan, 14:37, Tim Watts wrote: Very polarised opinions on Torbecks... Seems to be a love them or hate them? Most people love how they work, some report problems with limescale on the tiny valve hole. If you're in a soft water area, no problem. That could be it, soft water, I've three of them, no problems, quiet, fast filling etc. It's pretty hard water in this part of London and the one in my toilet lasted 20 years or so. It's hard water here as well, and the old one had done well I think. Might have been able to repair it with a kit if I understood how they worked - but a complete one didn't break the bank and was worth it for the silence... Yup, replacing was the sensible option from my POV -- Chris French |
#23
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
Thanks to this thread I have fixed my Torbeck valve. It wasn't filling (or ridiculously slowly, anyway). The tiny air hole at the top was not completely blocked (I could see light through it), but there was a miniscule amount of limescale in it which was enough to stop it working properly. I cleared the hole out with a needle, and now all is good. I had taken it all apart to clean it out, but in future I'll just remove the rocker arm on the float and use the needle, which is a two minute job. Saved me 10 pounds on a new one.
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#24
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:19:45 PM UTC, YAPH wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:48:48 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: It's what's called an equilibrium valve. The basic principle is that water pressure bears on both sides of the rubber diaphragm but there's more surface area exposed to the water on the side that presses the diaphragm Pilot operated diaphragm valve, type of thing. Many solenoid valves operate on the same principle, with only the little pilot jet operated by the solenoid and most of the water flow controlled by the diaphragm, that itself is operated by the pilot. The diaphragm diverter valves installed in many combi boilers work the same way, the diaphragm actuator being operated by the release of water pressure when a hot tap is opened. I have a torbeck valve on my loft tank, worked fine for 5 years until the water suppliers did something to my connection to the main and filled it with dirt. The replacement suffered from severe water hammer, but the makers sent a 'prototype' adaptor, free of charge, that solved that. |
#25
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
wrote in message ... Thanks to this thread I have fixed my Torbeck valve. It wasn't filling (or ridiculously slowly, anyway). The tiny air hole at the top was not completely blocked (I could see light through it), but there was a miniscule amount of limescale in it which was enough to stop it working properly. I cleared the hole out with a needle, and now all is good. I had taken it all apart to clean it out, but in future I'll just remove the rocker arm on the float and use the needle, which is a two minute job. Saved me 10 pounds on a new one. The "rubber" diaphragm closes the valve. Water pressure moves the diaphragm. The pressure on the diaphragm is greater on the pressure chamber side because it has a greater area than the valve orifice. The needle valve in the middle releases the water behind the diaphragm in the pressure chamber to let the valve open. The other tiny hole in the diaphragm seat lets water out of the pressure chamber so the valve can close./seat itself If the valve dribbles (ie doesn't properly close) is is because this latter hole is blocked. |
#26
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
As I recall they don't respond immediately when manually operated. Sorry to resurrect an oldie, and on Google too, but that last remark saved my bacon today. I had assumed the new Torbeck would shut off when I lifted the arm, so it nearly went in the bin. The original has lasted 30 years, so like for like replacement seemed the best option. Attaching that plastic sleeve was a bugger though |
#27
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 15 May 2015 20:44:01 +0000, Fred Turton wrote: I have tried two different Torbeck valves and had the same trouble both times. The float mechanism wont shut off the water supply. It just gushes out. Did you fit the correct flow reducer? I have given up on the Torbeck. And in another post: As I couldn't stop the gushing I undid the blue cap to look at the diaphragm but still had no luck. Torbeck(tm) is a trademark of Fluidmaster UK not a type of valve. Though it appears that they only use it on equlibrium valves. Fliudmaster also make float valves and use the Delchem(tm) trademark on that type. Both have blue caps but the Delchem(tm) float valves also have a blue body and big long arm for the normal 4" dia ball to attach to. -- Cheers Dave. A lot of manufacturers have very similar designs. They all use the same idea and slight but significant variations of the diaphragm, nozzles etc. [Ideal standard seems to have taken this approach further than most and made almost everything they have different to the everyone else. As someone said there's nothing standard about Ideal Standard.] Agree with those who say work well but vulnerable to debris. Ed |
#28
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
My girlfriend's Torbeck-based cistern started filling very slowly. Eventually found the problem - a small slit in the diaphragm. This meant the water pressure both sides was more-or-less the same, hence it couldn't open properly. Looking at the thing, under normal circumstances, the very small hole that goes over the locating pin is a tiny bleed hole similar in size to the hole at the float end, so pressure on the float side is much less until the float stops off that end. If the diaphragm splits, the 'bleed' effect is much greater. Most irritatingly: found her local Wickes had stock, ordered by click and collect, and found when I'd got back they'd given me a 'Fluidmaster' diaphragm, which looks the same but has the small hole in the middle, not to one side. And due to Covid, they had shut by the time I realised. Amazon and eBay both stock them, but when I want it, I want it NOW!!!!
Hers is a slimline cistern, so the good old Portsmouth type that I have at home isn't an option. |
#29
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
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#30
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
GB wrote:
Toolstation will sell you NOW a replacement Torbeck valve for £7. Open for a couple of hours, still. closed a couple of hours ago, I think you'll find (corvid rules) |
#31
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
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#32
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
On Tue, 07 Jul 2020 11:05:09 -0700, solarstevegs wrote:
My girlfriend's Torbeck-based cistern started filling very slowly. Eventually found the problem - a small slit in the diaphragm. This meant the water pressure both sides was more-or-less the same, hence it couldn't open properly. Looking at the thing, under normal circumstances, the very small hole that goes over the locating pin is a tiny bleed hole similar in size to the hole at the float end, so pressure on the float side is much less until the float stops off that end. If the diaphragm splits, the 'bleed' effect is much greater. Most irritatingly: found her local Wickes had stock, ordered by click and collect, and found when I'd got back they'd given me a 'Fluidmaster' diaphragm, which looks the same but has the small hole in the middle, not to one side. And due to Covid, they had shut by the time I realised. Amazon and eBay both stock them, but when I want it, I want it NOW!!!! Hers is a slimline cistern, so the good old Portsmouth type that I have at home isn't an option. We have slimlines (came with the house) and a special float and arm on one of them shattered. I replaced it with a Torbeck years ago. The onoly problem is that sometimes it doesn't shut off properly and the overflow starts to run. Always caused by a tiny bit of grit blocking the bleed hole under the arm [1]. Take it apart, compressed air, job done. [1] Generally when they've been digging up the pipes nearby. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#33
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Torbeck valve - how does it work?
replying to Bob Eager, JD2 wrote:
Finally found the problem with the Torbeck valve. Has anybody else found the SECOND rubber? If you carefully pries of the lever arm you will see a black rubber washer in the arm. It is only about 3mm in diameter. Look at the surface through a magnifying glass and there may be ware makes on it. This is the seal that closes off the bleed air valve. If you find a supplier of a replacement let me know. Meantime pries out the washer and reverse it. Careful it will spring out and disappear for ever. Reassemble and have a quiet nights sleep. JD2 -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...rk-610758-.htm |
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