Umm... of the liquid variety, not 16oz metal :-)

Recently replaced a traditional ball valve in the upstairs loo with a
Torbeck. Fantastic filling - much quieter, except that when it switches
off there is a fantastic "bang" from the pipework. Is there any way to
stop this?

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.

TIA

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... There is no gravity--The earth sucks!

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:42:59 +0100, Martin Angove
wrote:

Umm... of the liquid variety, not 16oz metal :-)

Recently replaced a traditional ball valve in the upstairs loo with a
Torbeck. Fantastic filling - much quieter, except that when it switches
off there is a fantastic "bang" from the pipework. Is there any way to
stop this?

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.


It sure does. Did you put in the HP flow reducer?

If the flow is still too high, try including a service valve in the
pipe as well, and adjust down a bit.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.



It sure does. Did you put in the HP flow reducer?

If the flow is still too high, try including a service valve in the
pipe as well, and adjust down a bit.

A few pipe clips might help as well if you have any lenghts of pipe that
are able to move about too much.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
Umm... of the liquid variety, not 16oz metal :-)

Recently replaced a traditional ball valve in the upstairs loo with a
Torbeck. Fantastic filling - much quieter, except that when it switches
off there is a fantastic "bang" from the pipework. Is there any way to
stop this?

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.

The Torbeck should be set to have a flow no more than what the overflow can
take. If you want more flow, then you may need to update the overflow pipe
size. Once you have the flow you want or can get, and the thump is still
there, then fit a shock arrestor from:
http://www.bes.ltd.uk Fit near the valve as as possible.

If the Tobeck is on a toilet, install a new siphon that overflows into the
toilet bowl, then no problems with overflows pipes and sizes. Have the
Torbeck flow as fast as you can get with any filling noise. If still a bump
noise then install a shock arrestor.

In message ,
John Rumm wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.



It sure does. Did you put in the HP flow reducer?

If the flow is still too high, try including a service valve in the
pipe as well, and adjust down a bit.

[Andy]

The HP flow reducer made filling excruciatingly slow, so I put the LP
one in instead. Mains is 15mm from the road. To be honest, the bang was
better without either, but I was a bit worried about the amount of water
trying to squeeze down that polythene tube! Unfortunately, there's no
room for a valve on the pipe to the cistern as it disappears directly
into a wall...

A few pipe clips might help as well if you have any lenghts of pipe that
are able to move about too much.


[John]

Likewise. I suppose there *may* be some access to the pipe somewhere,
but it comes up through the floor in the downstairs loo, straight up
into the ceiling which is the floor of the bathroom, and then under the
bath (under the floor) to the wall by the loo. None of the floorboards
have been up since the house was built, even the bathroom suite is
original (1967), and the bit of wall (wood clad, mind you) in which the
pipe is buried is partly tiled.

Is there any kind of "capacitor" I could fit near the incoming perhaps?

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Govt investigations contribute more to amusement than knowledge.

"Martin Angove" wrote in message
...
In message ,
John Rumm wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

The bathroom feed seems to come straight from the mains by the way,
rather than through the header tank, if that makes any difference.



It sure does. Did you put in the HP flow reducer?

If the flow is still too high, try including a service valve in the
pipe as well, and adjust down a bit.

[Andy]

The HP flow reducer made filling excruciatingly slow, so I put the LP
one in instead. Mains is 15mm from the road. To be honest, the bang was
better without either, but I was a bit worried about the amount of water
trying to squeeze down that polythene tube! Unfortunately, there's no
room for a valve on the pipe to the cistern as it disappears directly
into a wall...

A few pipe clips might help as well if you have any lenghts of pipe that
are able to move about too much.


[John]

Likewise. I suppose there *may* be some access to the pipe somewhere,
but it comes up through the floor in the downstairs loo, straight up
into the ceiling which is the floor of the bathroom, and then under the
bath (under the floor) to the wall by the loo. None of the floorboards
have been up since the house was built, even the bathroom suite is
original (1967), and the bit of wall (wood clad, mind you) in which the
pipe is buried is partly tiled.

Is there any kind of "capacitor" I could fit near the incoming perhaps?

See my previous post. I assume this is on a toilet. Do you really need
super fast fillups? Probably not. This toilet when filling may steal
pressure from a much need outlet, like a shower. You don't have a large
bore mains pipe. I put on Torbecks because they are quieter than normal
valves, not because they fill up fast. It is worth putting them on cold
water tanks to get them filled ASAP. Also when a normal ballcock is near
closed is restricts the flow and may cause high pitched sound.

Unfortunately, there's no room for a valve on the pipe to the
cistern as it disappears directly into a wall...

A water hammer arrester (effectively a tiny expansion vessel) will cure the
bang. However, you'll have to have some access to the pipe to fit it, unless
you manage to contrive a solution internal to the cistern with a T-piece and
pipe bender.

Christian.

Martin Angove wrote:

Is there any kind of "capacitor" I could fit near the incoming perhaps?

Yes...

have a look at the "Shock Arrester" (order code 11355) on www.besltd.co.uk

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
"IMM" wrote:



See my previous post. I assume this is on a toilet. Do you really need
super fast fillups? Probably not. This toilet when filling may steal
pressure from a much need outlet, like a shower. You don't have a large
bore mains pipe.

I need it faster than it filled with the HP restrictor fitted! With the
LP restrictor it fills slightly slower than with none, I dunno, maybe a
minute versus 45 seconds, but with the HP restrictor it seems to take
forever. At the moment there are five adults, two (young) children and
two toilets in this house so yes, they do need to refill reasonably
quickly!

The shock arrestor sounds like a good idea though.

I put on Torbecks because they are quieter than normal valves, not
because they fill up fast. It is worth putting them on cold water
tanks to get them filled ASAP. Also when a normal ballcock is near
closed is restricts the flow and may cause high pitched sound.


We put Torbecks on because the ball valves had finally given up the
ghost. They are nearing 40 years old, and no amount of replacement
washers seemed to get them working properly again. The quiet fill was a
secondary consideration, but is *very* useful at night.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Famous Quotes: "...and tits doesn't belong on the list!" - G. Carlin

In message ,
"Christian McArdle" wrote:

Unfortunately, there's no room for a valve on the pipe to the
cistern as it disappears directly into a wall...

A water hammer arrester (effectively a tiny expansion vessel) will cure the
bang. However, you'll have to have some access to the pipe to fit it, unless
you manage to contrive a solution internal to the cistern with a T-piece and
pipe bender.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I'm after... it's just that the pipe isn't
(easily) accessible closer than... ooh, 4m to the toilet.

Having said that, we also get bang when taps are closed too quickly,
particularly in the kitchen where they are 1/4 turn ceramic disc things,
so an arrestor somewhere more central in the pipework might not be a bad
idea.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... I'm not dead; I'm metabolically challenged.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I'm after... it's just that the pipe isn't
(easily) accessible closer than... ooh, 4m to the toilet.

The closer they are to the valve, the better they work. However, they will
have some effect wherever they are installed. 4m may be pushing it.

It may well be worth examining installing within the cistern. Many modern
valve designs take much less room than traditional types. You might actually
manage to get the whole lot installed within.

Having said that, we also get bang when taps are closed too quickly,
particularly in the kitchen where they are 1/4 turn ceramic disc things,
so an arrestor somewhere more central in the pipework might not be a bad
idea.

Yes. Shock arrestors are very useful installed near to ceramic disc taps.
These can be as bad as modern toilet valves and washing machines, which are
all very rapid acting. It's a shame they can't seem to design a toilet valve
that shuts off fully over a period of a second. They only manage 1/100 of
second (so it hammers) or 100 seconds (so it squeaks into the night).

Christian.

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
Yes. Shock arrestors are very useful installed near to ceramic disc taps.
These can be as bad as modern toilet valves and washing machines, which are
all very rapid acting. It's a shame they can't seem to design a toilet valve
that shuts off fully over a period of a second. They only manage 1/100 of
second (so it hammers) or 100 seconds (so it squeaks into the night).

Christian.



The Fluid Master type valves do just that.
Similar in principle to Torbecks, but a just little softer.

Like the OP, I suffered hammer with Torbecks, now silent as mouse with
Fluid Masters.

--
Steve

The Fluid Master type valves do just that.
Similar in principle to Torbecks, but a just little softer.

I had a Fluidmaster. Banged like crazy, though a little birdie told me that
they have since changed the design.

Christian.