...and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
news
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

I've got a hundred 100W bulbs, good quality ones. I think I might as well
get a few 60W ones as well. I can't see why we are not allowed to select the
quality of light in our homes on environmental grounds when people are still
allowed to chose whether to fly, drive, or go by rail.

Bill

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on
a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should
we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then.
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Hugh Jampton
saying something like:

Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on
a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should
we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then.

Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn.

I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up
like it was going out of fashion.
**** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of
us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s.
**** the lot of them.

All members of congress that voted for that law should be fined for each
one they find in their house!


--
Dymphna
Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com

On Sep 1, 7:45 am, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

**** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of
us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s.
**** the lot of them.

But that would produce even more people!

In article , Steve Walker
writes
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
news
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

fred wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
writes
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
news ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?!

In article , Steve Walker
writes
fred wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
writes

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?!

Clear ones are ok for a while yet but pearl/opals are out, even in the
lower wattages. It has sort of crept up on me too.

Who uses clears?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

"Hugh Jampton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet.

Why should we be so arrogant as to think we can make a difference to what
the planet does?

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Colin Bignell

In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

How many ?

I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago

--
geoff

In message , fred writes
In article , Steve Walker
writes
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
news ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

22p each for 100 off

--
geoff

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:01:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:

On Sep 1, 7:45 am, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

**** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of
us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s.
**** the lot of them.

But that would produce even more people!

50% success rate.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Are they banning halogen GLSes too? Slightly more energy efficient, same
size and other characteristics generally. What's the problem?

--
John Stumbles

I am neither for nor against apathy

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:30:38 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

What's the problem?

I can't think of a good explanation that doesn't involve swearing a lot...

In article , geoff
writes
In message , fred writes
In article , Steve Walker
writes
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
news ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

22p each for 100 off

That'd certainly do the job, 100 is the sort of quantity I'm looking
for. Care to share the source?
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

How many ?

I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago

I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100.

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
fred wrote:
Who uses clears?

In fittings with their own diffusers, and in many cases where
the lamp isn't visible, clear is fine. They are more efficient.

People are now making frosted bulb condoms to stick over clear bulbs to
allow you to get the frosted effect!

Some Ikea CFLs come with such a covering, which is handy as you
can cut it off where a frosted finish isn't required (e.g. the
lamp isn't visible).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
John Stumbles writes:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Are they banning halogen GLSes too?

I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps.

Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C
(or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are
GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's and have
an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the
filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's
rather rarely used in practice.)

GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the
US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and
they said there was no market for them here -- people who care
about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all.
I guess there might be a change in this stance in the light of
the new regulations. This technology is only suitable for
certain shaped halogen capsules though (linear tubes probably
being the best).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

How many ?

I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago

I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100.

It's all very well but the way energy prices are going, you'll need a second
job to run the bloody things.

In article , brass monkey
writes

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

How many ?

I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago

I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100.

It's all very well but the way energy prices are going, you'll need a second
job to run the bloody things.


Depends where you use them I suppose. I use them where lights are on for
short periods but I need the light to come on instantaneously and not
ramp up over 5mins, walk in cupboards, cellar stairs or short term use
overhead lights. The alternative it to have energy savers burning the
whole time which doesn't save energy after all.

Or for decorative use where you'd need to change the fitting to make it
look ok with an energy saver.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * John Stumbles writes:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Are they banning halogen GLSes too?

I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps.


GLS halogen?

There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things
like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them
referred to as GLS though.

Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU
idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage
halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep.


Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C
(or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are
GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's

pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with
the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant

and have
an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the
filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's
rather rarely used in practice.

Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed
axe?

GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the
US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and
they said there was no market for them here -- people who care
about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all.

That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people
who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying?

Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually
qualify your comments this time.

Adam

P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it
basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean
that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist
group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in
here is O.T. just an observation


I guess there might be a change in this stance in the light of
the new regulations. This technology is only suitable for
certain shaped halogen capsules though (linear tubes probably
being the best).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying
something like:

P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it
basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean
that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist
group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in
here is O.T. just an observation

Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards.

Guess its evolution...

Adam

Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-)


On 1 Sep, 12:33, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying
something like:

P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it
basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean
that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist
group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in
here *is O.T. * *just an observation

Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards.

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:53:02 -0700, AA wrote:

Guess its evolution...

Adam

Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-)

You forgot extra capitals, extra punctuation, a few dropped vowels, and a
massive signature*.

* actually, don't see so much of the latter from GG users - that's one
thing which seems to have got better about usenet over the years.

On 31 Aug, 20:45, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on
a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should
we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then.

Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn.

I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up
like it was going out of fashion.
**** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of
us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s.
**** the lot of them.

"You had no alternative, Your Eminence. We must work in the world. The
world is thus."
" No, Señor Hontar. Thus have we made the world... thus have I made
it."

In article ,
AA writes:
On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * John Stumbles writes:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Are they banning halogen GLSes too?

I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps.
GLS halogen?
There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things
like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them
referred to as GLS though.

I don't know, but I observe that they've introduced them at
power ratings just under where each level of GLS ban takes place.
I'm guessing this is so they can take each off the market when
required, and the 100W ones seem to have gone. Highest I can now see
is 70W, which corresponds to about the 950lm limit in the EU regs
from 1 Sep 2009 (equivalent to a 75W GLS, although we don't use
these much in the UK).

The EU rules don't refer to GLS lamps at all. They refer to
"non-directional household lamps", but then go on to exclude
some lamp bases from scope until later. As far as I can see in
the regs, these halogen shaped GLS are not handled any differently
from clear GLS, but I'd need to sit down and read them very
carefully to be sure.

One interesting thing I did notice is that lamps designed for
= 60V are exempt until Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, and I've certainly
seen 12V and 25V GLS lamps in some strange places. A quick
search reveals 50V 100W GLS are available.

Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU
idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage
halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep.

G9 and R7 (halogen) caps have to be energy efficient from Stage 6:
1 Sep 2016, which is the end of the current commonly bought linear
halogens (although conforming replacements exist for 300W and 500W
as below). I've never used or investigated G9's much - always seemed
to me to be yet another way to produce cheap crap luminaires to
sucker in the punters (in the same way as GU10's).

GU10 has not yet been announced yet as regs for reflector lamps
are still being thrashed out, but it seems unlikely to me that
those which are amongst the least efficient lighting schemes (although
not entirely down to the lamps themselves) will survive longer.

Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C
(or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are
GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's
pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with
the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant

OK, I grabbed the K9 off a GE 225W package, which is what I had
to hand.

and have
an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the
filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's
rather rarely used in practice.
Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed
axe?

They aren't axed per se. All halogens eventually have to meet
Energy class C, (K series are referred to as R7 caps in the EU regs)
and the only ones available in the UK which I know of which currently
do are the two I mentioned above (plus some of the GLS shaped ones).
Others may appear in due course.

GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the
US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and
they said there was no market for them here -- people who care
about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all.
That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people

Not my suggestion - read what I wrote.

who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying?
Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually
qualify your comments this time.

EH?
I suspect GE know their market better than you do.
Although I might like to buy an IR reflecting K7, that doesn't
mean there's enough market to make it worth their while.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 1 Sep, 16:41, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * AA writes:



On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * John Stumbles writes:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Are they banning halogen GLSes too?

I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps.
GLS halogen?
There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things
like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them
referred to as GLS though.

I don't know, but I observe that they've introduced them at
power ratings just under where each level of GLS ban takes place.
I'm guessing this is so they can take each off the market when
required, and the 100W ones seem to have gone. Highest I can now see
is 70W, which corresponds to about the 950lm limit in the EU regs
from 1 Sep 2009 (equivalent to a 75W GLS, although we don't use
these much in the UK).

Haologena and others are in distinctly no GLS lamp shapes which does
make me wonder below


The EU rules don't refer to GLS lamps at all. They refer to
"non-directional household lamps", but then go on to exclude
some lamp bases from scope until later. As far as I can see in
the regs, these halogen shaped GLS are not handled any differently
from clear GLS, but I'd need to sit down and read them very
carefully to be sure.

Wondering if some fudging going on with B.C./ E27 based halogens as
special purpose rather than general service lamps.

Of course new builds will have their 87p incl VAT Part L compliant
pendant hanging forlornly in middle of room.

Wonder if Medway Handyman has changed any of these over to more
convenient fitiings for customers


One interesting thing I did notice is that lamps designed for
= 60V are exempt until Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, and I've certainly
seen 12V and 25V GLS lamps in some strange places. A quick
search reveals 50V 100W GLS are available.

These not for things like marine and aircraft use though?

Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU
idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage
halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep.

G9 and R7 (halogen) caps have to be energy efficient from Stage 6:
1 Sep 2016,

Struck me after my ill tempered reply , apology below.

which is the end of the current commonly bought linear
halogens (although conforming replacements exist for 300W and 500W
as below).

As you mention still unobtanium in the U.K market and really dont
fancy the CFL retrofits though might give one a spin for
investigation.

I've never used or investigated G9's much - always seemed
to me to be yet another way to produce cheap crap luminaires to
sucker in the punters (in the same way as GU10's).

G9`s are GU10s evil nephew , again trying to push out nice, reasonably
efficient, LV halogen with something that dosen`t need a trafo but
dosent so much light the space as lightly pee over it, are a bit on
the yellow side.

GU10 has not yet been announced yet as regs for reflector lamps
are still being thrashed out, but it seems unlikely to me that
those which are amongst the least efficient lighting schemes (although
not entirely down to the lamps themselves) will survive longer.

What this all ,may to be with the lighting industry selling people
this years wonder light product to replace last years steam powered
stuff.
Think some lighting makers think their like the record industry when
CDs came in , sell them all the same stuff over again, or in this case
couple of generations of retrofits.


Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C
(or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are
GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's
pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with
the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant

OK, I grabbed the K9 off a GE 225W package, which is what I had
to hand.

and have
an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the
filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's
rather rarely used in practice.
Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed
axe?

They aren't axed per se. All halogens eventually have to meet
Energy class C, (K series are referred to as R7 caps in the EU regs)
and the only ones available in the UK which I know of which currently
do are the two I mentioned above (plus some of the GLS shaped ones).
Others may appear in due course.

GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the
US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and
they said there was no market for them here -- people who care
about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all.
That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people

Not my suggestion - read what I wrote.

Really shouldn`t complete good natured posts interspersed with not
good natured phone calls.


who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying?
Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually
qualify your comments this time.

EH?

Sorry Andrew,my bad.
its the rabid all filament lamps are bad type thing that mistakenly
associated you with there, doh!

I suspect GE know their market better than you do.
Although I might like to buy an IR reflecting K7, that doesn't
mean there's enough market to make it worth their while.

Domestic customers choke at paying more than 2 quid for any lamp,
apart from with PIR use, most commercial users have moved to MH or
Sodium so not a big market for them there.
Have to use a lot of LEDs to replace a 400W MH, so not always a cost
effective solution yet in another 6 or 7 years the market should look
quite a lot different though.

Cheers
Adam

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

So:

If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose?


Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested.

For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I
have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different
types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available.

So far, of fittings I have already acquired:

2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads
of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact
suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab
grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a
format they are likely to appear in.

2 sets (7 total) 12V G4 lamps: used where SELV is a good idea (TM)

Fluorescent striplights for under cabinet use.

Anything else: standard size BC base - lots of decent CFLs in this format.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I
have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different
types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available.

In my last house I took good care to replace all the original fittings
(it was quite new) with ones that also took BC bulbs. The result was
that I needed 40W BC, 60W BC, and 100W BC in my store cupboard, and that
was all.

Then we moved.

The previous owner of this house seemed to have an ambition to have at
least one fitting with each possible type. certainly BC, SBC, ES, SES,
both ES and SES spot, 4ft tube all were represented. Grr.

Andy

In message , John
Rumm writes
fred wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
writes
fred wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
writes

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from
Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?!

Clear ones are ok for a while yet but pearl/opals are out, even in
the lower wattages. It has sort of crept up on me too.
Who uses clears?

People are now making frosted bulb condoms to stick over clear bulbs to
allow you to get the frosted effect!


A cure for AIDS [1]?

[1] - Arsehole Induced Deficiency of Stock

--
geoff

In message , fred writes
In article , geoff
writes
In message , fred writes
In article , Steve Walker
writes
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
news ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years.

Join the club !

Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation.

Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for
40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles?

22p each for 100 off

That'd certainly do the job, 100 is the sort of quantity I'm looking
for. Care to share the source?

Someone posted it at the time - I'll check tomorrow

--
geoff

In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying
something like:

P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it
basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean
that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist
group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in
here is O.T. just an observation

Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards.

I bet you're really not sorry at all

In fact I would guess from the tone of your reply that you are just
humouring him

So ... anyone got any good jokes regarding California and BBQs ?

--
geoff

In message
, AA
writes
Guess its evolution...


Hang the heretic







Adam

Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-)


On 1 Sep, 12:33, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying
something like:

P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it
basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean
that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist
group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in
here *is O.T. * *just an observation

Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards.




--
geoff

In article ,
Tim S writes:
So:

If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose?


Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested.

My own view is that using downlighters for general lighting is
a bad idea. Unless they're very wide beam, you are basically
using the floor as a reflector to light the room, and floors
generally make appalling reflectors. If you want a ceiling
covered in bright dots for some reason, use decorative lamps for
that purpose, and something else more suitable for the general
lighting. When I walk into a room with a ceiling covered in
downlighters, it just says "cheap" and "clueless" to me.

The odd downlighter used for task or accent lighting over
something that needs task lighting or accenting is fine -- indeed
that's exactly what they _are_ for.

So having answered with what not to do, thinking of an answer
of what to do instead is harder. I must say, I find the choice
of light fittings available in shops to be extremely disappointing.
Sometimes, I see a light fitting used commercially which I think is
good, but then you find you'll have to pay commercial prices for
it (i.e. £100 upwards). I end up making nearly all mine, often
starting with parts from bought ones, e.g. replacing the guts with
something economic to run, or using the glass pieces in different
way.

A technique which is very effective (particularly when you can't
find fittings you like) is to use indirect lighting with the
lights hidden from view. I always do this in kitchens, using
linear fluorescents on top of wall cupboards indirectly lighting
the room via a brilliant white painted ceiling, and under cupboards
for worktop task lighting. This can work in other rooms too, e.g.
uplighters in a living room, or even just table lamps dotted
around on furniture with open topped shades to make good use of
the light reflected off the ceiling, whilst shielding the light
bulb from direct view. If I was wiring up a living room, I would
include a number of socket outlets around the room switched from
the doorway (2A or 5A round pin, or klik lighting points). There's
one I added in the living room I'm currently in, but I didn't wire
up the whole room, and more would be better. I would still go for
a central ceiling light; it can be decorative rather than functional
of your main lighting comes from other places, but you still have
the option of a function light there too.

For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I
have to stock as spares

That's something I certainly failed, but not something I strived
for. I have a cupboard in the garage with spare lamps, and it's
not really a big deal how many different ones it holds.

- and trying to use lamp bases where many different
types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available.

So far, of fittings I have already acquired:

2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads
of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact
suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab
grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a
format they are likely to appear in.

I have some LED lights I am very pleased with, but I made them
myself. Commercial equivalents (not that there is anything quite
equivalent) would have been around £400, but the parts to make
mine probably cost me less than 1/10th of that.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim S writes:
So:

If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose?


Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested.

My own view is that using downlighters for general lighting is
a bad idea. Unless they're very wide beam, you are basically
using the floor as a reflector to light the room, and floors
generally make appalling reflectors. If you want a ceiling
covered in bright dots for some reason, use decorative lamps for
that purpose, and something else more suitable for the general
lighting. When I walk into a room with a ceiling covered in
downlighters, it just says "cheap" and "clueless" to me.

The odd downlighter used for task or accent lighting over
something that needs task lighting or accenting is fine -- indeed
that's exactly what they _are_ for.

So having answered with what not to do, thinking of an answer
of what to do instead is harder. I must say, I find the choice
of light fittings available in shops to be extremely disappointing.
Sometimes, I see a light fitting used commercially which I think is
good, but then you find you'll have to pay commercial prices for
it (i.e. £100 upwards). I end up making nearly all mine, often
starting with parts from bought ones, e.g. replacing the guts with
something economic to run, or using the glass pieces in different
way.

A technique which is very effective (particularly when you can't
find fittings you like) is to use indirect lighting with the
lights hidden from view. I always do this in kitchens, using
linear fluorescents on top of wall cupboards indirectly lighting
the room via a brilliant white painted ceiling, and under cupboards
for worktop task lighting. This can work in other rooms too, e.g.
uplighters in a living room, or even just table lamps dotted
around on furniture with open topped shades to make good use of
the light reflected off the ceiling, whilst shielding the light
bulb from direct view. If I was wiring up a living room, I would
include a number of socket outlets around the room switched from
the doorway (2A or 5A round pin, or klik lighting points). There's
one I added in the living room I'm currently in, but I didn't wire
up the whole room, and more would be better. I would still go for
a central ceiling light; it can be decorative rather than functional
of your main lighting comes from other places, but you still have
the option of a function light there too.

For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I
have to stock as spares

That's something I certainly failed, but not something I strived
for. I have a cupboard in the garage with spare lamps, and it's
not really a big deal how many different ones it holds.

- and trying to use lamp bases where many different
types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available.

So far, of fittings I have already acquired:

2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are
loads
of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact
suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not
lab
grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be
a
format they are likely to appear in.

I have some LED lights I am very pleased with, but I made them
myself. Commercial equivalents (not that there is anything quite
equivalent) would have been around £400, but the parts to make
mine probably cost me less than 1/10th of that.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

The best 10 quid i've spent was on a standard lamp, bunged in a 25W cfl and
it's great, pity the plasma pulls 300watts

On 1 Sep, 21:03, Tim S wrote:
So:

If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose?

Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested.

In a low ceiling , its a possibility , but concealed fluro may offer
a more even solution depending on the space.


For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I
have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different
types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available.

Lamp bases is a bit of red herring really, keeping spares in depth
should become less of a problem with extending lamp lifes.

So far, of fittings I have already acquired:

2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads
of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact
suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab
grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a
format they are likely to appear in.

GU10 is just the base, the lamp shape is MR16, 16 1/8th of an inch,
dont think seen MR11 in GU10.

MR16 is a spotlight lamp, its meant for highlighting things .

Anyway MR16 lamps are 2" in diameter and can get a huge range of
fittings, from cheap downlighter rings to multihead ceiling fitiings
that take a 2" lamp.

SELV fittings will have a trafo for them and probably a GX 5.3 bi pin
base but the lamp shape is the same, GU10 usually slightly deeper.

All the Compact Fluorescent CFL and Cold Cathode Compact Fluorescent
CCFL lamps in MR16 are rubbish, optically most of light stays in
fitting and the heat means they cook themselves, an option comfortably
ignored.

LED MR16 goes from novelty, glass ones with quantity of 5mm LEDs
crammed in, cheap and dim but ok for very short throw use, great if
you want quantity in saturated colours.
Mid range , some of the better no brand 3 and 5W high power LED MR16s
are getting pretty good, its lifetime that may be suspect.
High end, specialist lamps made from big brand named components from
known colour bins with choice of optics.Premium end of price
performance curve.

Get all of them in 12 or 240V flavours.

For general lighting ,lot of stuff that is still in commercial zone ,
and priced accordingly but often not built to match its price TBH,
that will hopefully begin to work down to domestic world.

Metal halide is now down to domestic sized lamps , 35W is available
but generally in commercial fittings.

Metal halide, high pressure sodium and high efficiency fluro are good
ways to go for general area lighting, if you`ve got the celing height
uplighters are available in all of these sources. Not reccomendation
just an idea of whats available outside of B&Q, John Lewis and BHS:

http://www.litecraftcommercial.co.uk...UPLIGHTERS.asp

Commercial downlighters also make some sense in some domestic
applications:

http://www.qvsdirect.com/Recessed-Di...-pr-21377.html

Screwfix one is a high frequency ballast accounts for difference in
price

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/24878/...ergy-Downlight

2 sets (7 total) 12V G4 lamps: used where SELV is a good idea (TM)

Fluorescent striplights for under cabinet use.

Stick to T5 which is a standard rather than T4 which is anyones guess.



Anything else: standard size BC base - lots of decent CFLs in this format.

ES, E27 is a more common continental base , but B.C . implies hanging
pendants , probably only good for the airing cupboard nowadays and
even then theres a case for LED...

Adam


Cheers

Tim

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "
saying something like:

Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn.

I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up
like it was going out of fashion.
**** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of
us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s.
**** the lot of them.

"You had no alternative, Your Eminence. We must work in the world. The
world is thus."
" No, Señor Hontar. Thus have we made the world... thus have I made
it."

Ah, The Mission, thought it rang a bell. Haven't seen that for years.