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Ah well, all good things come to an end...
...and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in.
Should be enough for years. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
john wrote:
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
"Steve Walker" wrote in message ... john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. I've got a hundred 100W bulbs, good quality ones. I think I might as well get a few 60W ones as well. I can't see why we are not allowed to select the quality of light in our homes on environmental grounds when people are still allowed to chose whether to fly, drive, or go by rail. Bill |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then. -- Regards, Hugh Jampton |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Hugh Jampton saying something like: Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then. Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn. I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up like it was going out of fashion. **** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s. **** the lot of them. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
All members of congress that voted for that law should be fined for each one they find in their house! -- Dymphna Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Sep 1, 7:45 am, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: **** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s. **** the lot of them. But that would produce even more people! |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article , Steve Walker
writes john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
fred wrote:
In article , Steve Walker writes john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?! |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article , Steve Walker
writes fred wrote: In article , Steve Walker writes Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?! Clear ones are ok for a while yet but pearl/opals are out, even in the lower wattages. It has sort of crept up on me too. Who uses clears? -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
"Hugh Jampton" wrote in message ... On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. Why should we be so arrogant as to think we can make a difference to what the planet does? http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html Colin Bignell |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. How many ? I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message , fred writes
In article , Steve Walker writes john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? 22p each for 100 off -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:01:34 -0700 (PDT), Matty F wrote:
On Sep 1, 7:45 am, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: **** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s. **** the lot of them. But that would produce even more people! 50% success rate. -- Peter. The head of a pin will hold more angels if it's been flattened with an angel-grinder. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Are they banning halogen GLSes too? Slightly more energy efficient, same size and other characteristics generally. What's the problem? -- John Stumbles I am neither for nor against apathy |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:30:38 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:
What's the problem? I can't think of a good explanation that doesn't involve swearing a lot... |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article , geoff
writes In message , fred writes In article , Steve Walker writes john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? 22p each for 100 off That'd certainly do the job, 100 is the sort of quantity I'm looking for. Care to share the source? -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying something like: How many ? I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article ,
John Rumm writes: fred wrote: Who uses clears? In fittings with their own diffusers, and in many cases where the lamp isn't visible, clear is fine. They are more efficient. People are now making frosted bulb condoms to stick over clear bulbs to allow you to get the frosted effect! Some Ikea CFLs come with such a covering, which is handy as you can cut it off where a frosted finish isn't required (e.g. the lamp isn't visible). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article ,
John Stumbles writes: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Are they banning halogen GLSes too? I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps. Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C (or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's and have an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's rather rarely used in practice.) GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and they said there was no market for them here -- people who care about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all. I guess there might be a change in this stance in the light of the new regulations. This technology is only suitable for certain shaped halogen capsules though (linear tubes probably being the best). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying something like: How many ? I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100. It's all very well but the way energy prices are going, you'll need a second job to run the bloody things. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article , brass monkey
writes "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message .. . We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying something like: How many ? I got 100 x 100W and 100 x 60W a few months ago I bow before your eco-terrorism, for I can barely muster 100. It's all very well but the way energy prices are going, you'll need a second job to run the bloody things. Depends where you use them I suppose. I use them where lights are on for short periods but I need the light to come on instantaneously and not ramp up over 5mins, walk in cupboards, cellar stairs or short term use overhead lights. The alternative it to have energy savers burning the whole time which doesn't save energy after all. Or for decorative use where you'd need to change the fitting to make it look ok with an energy saver. -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article , * * * * John Stumbles writes: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Are they banning halogen GLSes too? I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps. GLS halogen? There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them referred to as GLS though. Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep. Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C (or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant and have an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's rather rarely used in practice. Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed axe? GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and they said there was no market for them here -- people who care about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all. That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying? Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually qualify your comments this time. Adam P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in here is O.T. just an observation I guess there might be a change in this stance in the light of the new regulations. This technology is only suitable for certain shaped halogen capsules though (linear tubes probably being the best). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying something like: P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in here is O.T. just an observation Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
Guess its evolution...
Adam Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-) On 1 Sep, 12:33, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying something like: P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in here *is O.T. * *just an observation Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:53:02 -0700, AA wrote:
Guess its evolution... Adam Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-) You forgot extra capitals, extra punctuation, a few dropped vowels, and a massive signature*. * actually, don't see so much of the latter from GG users - that's one thing which seems to have got better about usenet over the years. |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On 31 Aug, 20:45, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote: Yeah - good thinking. Why should we worry about the planet. I'm getting on a bit so the problems we're causing probably won't affect me and why should we care about future generations - we'll all be dead by then. Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn. I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up like it was going out of fashion. **** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s. **** the lot of them. "You had no alternative, Your Eminence. We must work in the world. The world is thus." " No, Señor Hontar. Thus have we made the world... thus have I made it." |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article ,
AA writes: On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , * * * * John Stumbles writes: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Are they banning halogen GLSes too? I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps. GLS halogen? There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them referred to as GLS though. I don't know, but I observe that they've introduced them at power ratings just under where each level of GLS ban takes place. I'm guessing this is so they can take each off the market when required, and the 100W ones seem to have gone. Highest I can now see is 70W, which corresponds to about the 950lm limit in the EU regs from 1 Sep 2009 (equivalent to a 75W GLS, although we don't use these much in the UK). The EU rules don't refer to GLS lamps at all. They refer to "non-directional household lamps", but then go on to exclude some lamp bases from scope until later. As far as I can see in the regs, these halogen shaped GLS are not handled any differently from clear GLS, but I'd need to sit down and read them very carefully to be sure. One interesting thing I did notice is that lamps designed for = 60V are exempt until Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, and I've certainly seen 12V and 25V GLS lamps in some strange places. A quick search reveals 50V 100W GLS are available. Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep. G9 and R7 (halogen) caps have to be energy efficient from Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, which is the end of the current commonly bought linear halogens (although conforming replacements exist for 300W and 500W as below). I've never used or investigated G9's much - always seemed to me to be yet another way to produce cheap crap luminaires to sucker in the punters (in the same way as GU10's). GU10 has not yet been announced yet as regs for reflector lamps are still being thrashed out, but it seems unlikely to me that those which are amongst the least efficient lighting schemes (although not entirely down to the lamps themselves) will survive longer. Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C (or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant OK, I grabbed the K9 off a GE 225W package, which is what I had to hand. and have an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's rather rarely used in practice. Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed axe? They aren't axed per se. All halogens eventually have to meet Energy class C, (K series are referred to as R7 caps in the EU regs) and the only ones available in the UK which I know of which currently do are the two I mentioned above (plus some of the GLS shaped ones). Others may appear in due course. GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and they said there was no market for them here -- people who care about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all. That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people Not my suggestion - read what I wrote. who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying? Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually qualify your comments this time. EH? I suspect GE know their market better than you do. Although I might like to buy an IR reflecting K7, that doesn't mean there's enough market to make it worth their while. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On 1 Sep, 16:41, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article , * * * * AA writes: On 1 Sep, 10:10, (Andrew Gabriel) wrote: In article , * * * * John Stumbles writes: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:43:50 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Are they banning halogen GLSes too? I suspect GLS halogens are banned with GLS lamps. GLS halogen? There is the recently introduced GLS shaped Osram halogens and things like Philips Halogena and GE BTT or whatever, never heard of them referred to as GLS though. I don't know, but I observe that they've introduced them at power ratings just under where each level of GLS ban takes place. I'm guessing this is so they can take each off the market when required, and the 100W ones seem to have gone. Highest I can now see is 70W, which corresponds to about the 950lm limit in the EU regs from 1 Sep 2009 (equivalent to a 75W GLS, although we don't use these much in the UK). Haologena and others are in distinctly no GLS lamp shapes which does make me wonder below The EU rules don't refer to GLS lamps at all. They refer to "non-directional household lamps", but then go on to exclude some lamp bases from scope until later. As far as I can see in the regs, these halogen shaped GLS are not handled any differently from clear GLS, but I'd need to sit down and read them very carefully to be sure. Wondering if some fudging going on with B.C./ E27 based halogens as special purpose rather than general service lamps. Of course new builds will have their 87p incl VAT Part L compliant pendant hanging forlornly in middle of room. Wonder if Medway Handyman has changed any of these over to more convenient fitiings for customers One interesting thing I did notice is that lamps designed for = 60V are exempt until Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, and I've certainly seen 12V and 25V GLS lamps in some strange places. A quick search reveals 50V 100W GLS are available. These not for things like marine and aircraft use though? Though its uncertain whats going to happen next in wacky world of EU idiocrats haven`t seen any thing specifically heading for line voltage halogen, though an immediate ban on GU10 wouldn`t make many weep. G9 and R7 (halogen) caps have to be energy efficient from Stage 6: 1 Sep 2016, Struck me after my ill tempered reply , apology below. which is the end of the current commonly bought linear halogens (although conforming replacements exist for 300W and 500W as below). As you mention still unobtanium in the U.K market and really dont fancy the CFL retrofits though might give one a spin for investigation. I've never used or investigated G9's much - always seemed to me to be yet another way to produce cheap crap luminaires to sucker in the punters (in the same way as GU10's). G9`s are GU10s evil nephew , again trying to push out nice, reasonably efficient, LV halogen with something that dosen`t need a trafo but dosent so much light the space as lightly pee over it, are a bit on the yellow side. GU10 has not yet been announced yet as regs for reflector lamps are still being thrashed out, but it seems unlikely to me that those which are amongst the least efficient lighting schemes (although not entirely down to the lamps themselves) will survive longer. What this all ,may to be with the lighting industry selling people this years wonder light product to replace last years steam powered stuff. Think some lighting makers think their like the record industry when CDs came in , sell them all the same stuff over again, or in this case couple of generations of retrofits. Non-GLS halogens can remain, as long as they're Energy class C (or higher). The only ones I know of today which meet this are GE's 225W and 375W K9's which replace 300W and 500W K9's pedant linear halogens are Kseries lamps but the number changes with the wattage and length, think 500W is actually K1 /pedant OK, I grabbed the K9 off a GE 225W package, which is what I had to hand. and have an internal infra-red coating to reflect the heat back onto the filament. (I use a 225W to light my back garden, although it's rather rarely used in practice. Still lacking any reference to K series linear halogens facing a timed axe? They aren't axed per se. All halogens eventually have to meet Energy class C, (K series are referred to as R7 caps in the EU regs) and the only ones available in the UK which I know of which currently do are the two I mentioned above (plus some of the GLS shaped ones). Others may appear in due course. GE produce a whole range of these IR reflecting halogens in the US. Some time back, I asked them why they didn't in the UK, and they said there was no market for them here -- people who care about energy efficiency generally don't buy halogens at all. That really is total nonsense Andrew, what are you suggesting people Not my suggestion - read what I wrote. Really shouldn`t complete good natured posts interspersed with not good natured phone calls. who care about energy efficiency and Light Quality have been buying? Believe asked you before to be ignored, would hope you will actually qualify your comments this time. EH? Sorry Andrew,my bad. its the rabid all filament lamps are bad type thing that mistakenly associated you with there, doh! I suspect GE know their market better than you do. Although I might like to buy an IR reflecting K7, that doesn't mean there's enough market to make it worth their while. Domestic customers choke at paying more than 2 quid for any lamp, apart from with PIR use, most commercial users have moved to MH or Sodium so not a big market for them there. Have to use a lot of LEDs to replace a 400W MH, so not always a cost effective solution yet in another 6 or 7 years the market should look quite a lot different though. Cheers Adam -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
So:
If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose? Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested. For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available. So far, of fittings I have already acquired: 2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a format they are likely to appear in. 2 sets (7 total) 12V G4 lamps: used where SELV is a good idea (TM) Fluorescent striplights for under cabinet use. Anything else: standard size BC base - lots of decent CFLs in this format. Cheers Tim |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
Tim S wrote:
For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available. In my last house I took good care to replace all the original fittings (it was quite new) with ones that also took BC bulbs. The result was that I needed 40W BC, 60W BC, and 100W BC in my store cupboard, and that was all. Then we moved. The previous owner of this house seemed to have an ambition to have at least one fitting with each possible type. certainly BC, SBC, ES, SES, both ES and SES spot, 4ft tube all were represented. Grr. Andy |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message , John
Rumm writes fred wrote: In article , Steve Walker writes fred wrote: In article , Steve Walker writes Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? I didn't think the lower wattage bulbs were being banned yet.........?! Clear ones are ok for a while yet but pearl/opals are out, even in the lower wattages. It has sort of crept up on me too. Who uses clears? People are now making frosted bulb condoms to stick over clear bulbs to allow you to get the frosted effect! A cure for AIDS [1]? [1] - Arsehole Induced Deficiency of Stock -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message , fred writes
In article , geoff writes In message , fred writes In article , Steve Walker writes john wrote: "Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message ... ..and that's me got my last batch of incandescents in. Should be enough for years. Join the club ! Yep - half a tea-chest of 100w bulbs arriving tomorrow from Toolstation. Has anyone found a source at a better price than Toolstation's 33p for 40/60W pearl BC/ES or 45p for 25W opal BC candles? 22p each for 100 off That'd certainly do the job, 100 is the sort of quantity I'm looking for. Care to share the source? Someone posted it at the time - I'll check tomorrow -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message , Grimly
Curmudgeon writes We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying something like: P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in here is O.T. just an observation Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards. I bet you're really not sorry at all In fact I would guess from the tone of your reply that you are just humouring him So ... anyone got any good jokes regarding California and BBQs ? -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In message
, AA writes Guess its evolution... Hang the heretic Adam Top posted fom google groups for added inconvenience ;-) On 1 Sep, 12:33, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember AA saying something like: P.S as a usenet user for bit more than 10 years sad to see it basically turn into a few web chatrooms, the hierarchy used to mean that asking a specialist question could be directed to a specialist group where specialists would answer, now most frequent header in here *is O.T. * *just an observation Oh dear, dreadfully sorry about slipping standards. -- geoff |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
In article ,
Tim S writes: So: If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose? Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested. My own view is that using downlighters for general lighting is a bad idea. Unless they're very wide beam, you are basically using the floor as a reflector to light the room, and floors generally make appalling reflectors. If you want a ceiling covered in bright dots for some reason, use decorative lamps for that purpose, and something else more suitable for the general lighting. When I walk into a room with a ceiling covered in downlighters, it just says "cheap" and "clueless" to me. The odd downlighter used for task or accent lighting over something that needs task lighting or accenting is fine -- indeed that's exactly what they _are_ for. So having answered with what not to do, thinking of an answer of what to do instead is harder. I must say, I find the choice of light fittings available in shops to be extremely disappointing. Sometimes, I see a light fitting used commercially which I think is good, but then you find you'll have to pay commercial prices for it (i.e. £100 upwards). I end up making nearly all mine, often starting with parts from bought ones, e.g. replacing the guts with something economic to run, or using the glass pieces in different way. A technique which is very effective (particularly when you can't find fittings you like) is to use indirect lighting with the lights hidden from view. I always do this in kitchens, using linear fluorescents on top of wall cupboards indirectly lighting the room via a brilliant white painted ceiling, and under cupboards for worktop task lighting. This can work in other rooms too, e.g. uplighters in a living room, or even just table lamps dotted around on furniture with open topped shades to make good use of the light reflected off the ceiling, whilst shielding the light bulb from direct view. If I was wiring up a living room, I would include a number of socket outlets around the room switched from the doorway (2A or 5A round pin, or klik lighting points). There's one I added in the living room I'm currently in, but I didn't wire up the whole room, and more would be better. I would still go for a central ceiling light; it can be decorative rather than functional of your main lighting comes from other places, but you still have the option of a function light there too. For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I have to stock as spares That's something I certainly failed, but not something I strived for. I have a cupboard in the garage with spare lamps, and it's not really a big deal how many different ones it holds. - and trying to use lamp bases where many different types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available. So far, of fittings I have already acquired: 2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a format they are likely to appear in. I have some LED lights I am very pleased with, but I made them myself. Commercial equivalents (not that there is anything quite equivalent) would have been around £400, but the parts to make mine probably cost me less than 1/10th of that. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article , Tim S writes: So: If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose? Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested. My own view is that using downlighters for general lighting is a bad idea. Unless they're very wide beam, you are basically using the floor as a reflector to light the room, and floors generally make appalling reflectors. If you want a ceiling covered in bright dots for some reason, use decorative lamps for that purpose, and something else more suitable for the general lighting. When I walk into a room with a ceiling covered in downlighters, it just says "cheap" and "clueless" to me. The odd downlighter used for task or accent lighting over something that needs task lighting or accenting is fine -- indeed that's exactly what they _are_ for. So having answered with what not to do, thinking of an answer of what to do instead is harder. I must say, I find the choice of light fittings available in shops to be extremely disappointing. Sometimes, I see a light fitting used commercially which I think is good, but then you find you'll have to pay commercial prices for it (i.e. £100 upwards). I end up making nearly all mine, often starting with parts from bought ones, e.g. replacing the guts with something economic to run, or using the glass pieces in different way. A technique which is very effective (particularly when you can't find fittings you like) is to use indirect lighting with the lights hidden from view. I always do this in kitchens, using linear fluorescents on top of wall cupboards indirectly lighting the room via a brilliant white painted ceiling, and under cupboards for worktop task lighting. This can work in other rooms too, e.g. uplighters in a living room, or even just table lamps dotted around on furniture with open topped shades to make good use of the light reflected off the ceiling, whilst shielding the light bulb from direct view. If I was wiring up a living room, I would include a number of socket outlets around the room switched from the doorway (2A or 5A round pin, or klik lighting points). There's one I added in the living room I'm currently in, but I didn't wire up the whole room, and more would be better. I would still go for a central ceiling light; it can be decorative rather than functional of your main lighting comes from other places, but you still have the option of a function light there too. For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I have to stock as spares That's something I certainly failed, but not something I strived for. I have a cupboard in the garage with spare lamps, and it's not really a big deal how many different ones it holds. - and trying to use lamp bases where many different types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available. So far, of fittings I have already acquired: 2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a format they are likely to appear in. I have some LED lights I am very pleased with, but I made them myself. Commercial equivalents (not that there is anything quite equivalent) would have been around £400, but the parts to make mine probably cost me less than 1/10th of that. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] The best 10 quid i've spent was on a standard lamp, bunged in a 25W cfl and it's great, pity the plasma pulls 300watts :( |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
On 1 Sep, 21:03, Tim S wrote:
So: If starting from scratch, what *do* you choose? Many 5W led downlighters in one ceiling have been suggested. In a low ceiling , its a possibility , but concealed fluro may offer a more even solution depending on the space. For my part, I'm trying to minimise the number of different lamp types I have to stock as spares - and trying to use lamp bases where many different types (eg wattage, colours, led replacements) are or might be available. Lamp bases is a bit of red herring really, keeping spares in depth should become less of a problem with extending lamp lifes. So far, of fittings I have already acquired: 2 sets of GU10 240V fittings: rationale are that (currently) there are loads of GU10 lamps in lots of ratings, colours and led types. The last fact suggests *if* led lamp offerings become any good (and I mean lamps, not lab grade leds, of which I have several excellent ones) then GU10 seems to be a format they are likely to appear in. GU10 is just the base, the lamp shape is MR16, 16 1/8th of an inch, dont think seen MR11 in GU10. MR16 is a spotlight lamp, its meant for highlighting things . Anyway MR16 lamps are 2" in diameter and can get a huge range of fittings, from cheap downlighter rings to multihead ceiling fitiings that take a 2" lamp. SELV fittings will have a trafo for them and probably a GX 5.3 bi pin base but the lamp shape is the same, GU10 usually slightly deeper. All the Compact Fluorescent CFL and Cold Cathode Compact Fluorescent CCFL lamps in MR16 are rubbish, optically most of light stays in fitting and the heat means they cook themselves, an option comfortably ignored. LED MR16 goes from novelty, glass ones with quantity of 5mm LEDs crammed in, cheap and dim but ok for very short throw use, great if you want quantity in saturated colours. Mid range , some of the better no brand 3 and 5W high power LED MR16s are getting pretty good, its lifetime that may be suspect. High end, specialist lamps made from big brand named components from known colour bins with choice of optics.Premium end of price performance curve. Get all of them in 12 or 240V flavours. For general lighting ,lot of stuff that is still in commercial zone , and priced accordingly but often not built to match its price TBH, that will hopefully begin to work down to domestic world. Metal halide is now down to domestic sized lamps , 35W is available but generally in commercial fittings. Metal halide, high pressure sodium and high efficiency fluro are good ways to go for general area lighting, if you`ve got the celing height uplighters are available in all of these sources. Not reccomendation just an idea of whats available outside of B&Q, John Lewis and BHS: http://www.litecraftcommercial.co.uk...UPLIGHTERS.asp Commercial downlighters also make some sense in some domestic applications: http://www.qvsdirect.com/Recessed-Di...-pr-21377.html Screwfix one is a high frequency ballast accounts for difference in price http://www.screwfix.com/prods/24878/...ergy-Downlight 2 sets (7 total) 12V G4 lamps: used where SELV is a good idea (TM) Fluorescent striplights for under cabinet use. Stick to T5 which is a standard rather than T4 which is anyones guess. Anything else: standard size BC base - lots of decent CFLs in this format. ES, E27 is a more common continental base , but B.C . implies hanging pendants , probably only good for the airing cupboard nowadays and even then theres a case for LED... Adam Cheers Tim |
Ah well, all good things come to an end...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember " saying something like: Frankly, m'dear, I just don't give a damn. I gave a **** for years, when all around me others were guzzling it up like it was going out of fashion. **** them all. The major problem - the ONLY problem is six+ billion of us ****ers. Six billion greedy selfish thoughtless *******s. **** the lot of them. "You had no alternative, Your Eminence. We must work in the world. The world is thus." " No, Señor Hontar. Thus have we made the world... thus have I made it." Ah, The Mission, thought it rang a bell. Haven't seen that for years. |
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