Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2711/p38656

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Aug 20, 10:38*am, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum...pe+Freezer+Kit...

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

Thanks,
Stephen.

I have used pipe freezers several times on CH systems and they work
fine. Useful if you need to change the radiator stop valves.

Don't do what I did once which was to forget to turn off the CH timer,
the CH came on while I was fitting a new radiator. Fortunately I had
nearly finished and was able to quickly tighten the joints.

With regard to your tap fitting, are you sure there is no stopcock by
the HW tank in the airing cupboard?

If not why don't you turn off the mains water and drain down the HW,
this would be the safest way.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2711/p38656

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

Thanks,
Stephen.

Not answering the questions, as I have never used a freezing kit myself, but
you could always shut off the cold main and then drain the cold tank, that
would stop the hot water flow.

Then you don't need to worry about it thawing at the wrong time.

Toby...

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:43:54 -0700 (PDT), chudford
wrote:

If not why don't you turn off the mains water and drain down the HW,
this would be the safest way.

So simple, why didn't I think of that? OTOH it would mean pouring a
whole hot tank away, which does seem wasteful. I haven't looked in the
airing cupboard yet, so I hope I might find a gate valve or something
in there. I have one in ours; are they fitted routinely,. if so, that
is promising but it does mean I won't get to buy a freezing kit!

BTW these kits: what do you reuse and what has to be replaced? Is the
can single use or can you use it to do more than one pipe before it
runs out?

Thanks.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:43:54 -0700 (PDT), chudford
wrote:

If not why don't you turn off the mains water and drain down the HW,
this would be the safest way.

So simple, why didn't I think of that? OTOH it would mean pouring a
whole hot tank away, which does seem wasteful. I haven't looked in the
airing cupboard yet, so I hope I might find a gate valve or something
in there. I have one in ours; are they fitted routinely,. if so, that
is promising but it does mean I won't get to buy a freezing kit!

Well, you don't need to drain the hot tank, just drain the cold, the hot is
fed from the cold, at the bottom of the tank, and the take off is from the
top (heat rises!) so once the cold water tank is empty, the hot tank will
just sit there full - you will obviuslly need to drain the pipe between the
tank and your work, but as soon as that is empty, then the hot water will
just sit in the cylider.

I expect if the cylinder is hot, and you then turn off the boiler, this will
mean the water won't expand any more, so you shouldnt get any dribbling.

You may find a gate valve, usually between the cold tanks and the hot
cylinder, but you may not be able to turn it if it hasn't been used in a
long time, and even if it does "work" it may not actually shut the water
off, as they are crap!

If it were me, I would install a full bore lever valve like this if I were
draining stuff down, for the future...
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/17293

NOT one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18334

Also, where you are working under the sink, install some of these if you can
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/76597

The new taps may come with flexable tails, if so, they will probably screw
directly onto the valve.

And if you are doing all of this, make sure the mains water shut-off is
elderly relative friendly too - installing a lever valve is a hell of a lot
easer to use than a traditional stop cock

One of these is even easier (although I have not used one myself yet, I have
had good feedback from someone who has one)
http://www.surestop.co.uk/


Toby...

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:46:23 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Well, you don't need to drain the hot tank, just drain the cold,

That's true but how would you do this without making a mess? The only
way I can think of is by bailing out the tank with buckets or
siphoning it but that requires getting to the tank in the loft. The
problem is that no-one has been in the loft for years, there's no
lights up there and no boarding, so it's an expedition I would like to
avoid if possible! I'm still hoping there will be a valve in the
airing cupboard

If it were me, I would install a full bore lever valve like this if I were
draining stuff down, for the future...
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/17293

NOT one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18334

Also, where you are working under the sink, install some of these if you can
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/76597

All good stuff that I've fitted to my home already

And if you are doing all of this, make sure the mains water shut-off is
elderly relative friendly too - installing a lever valve is a hell of a lot
easer to use than a traditional stop cock

One of these is even easier (although I have not used one myself yet, I have
had good feedback from someone who has one)
http://www.surestop.co.uk/

I bought one from Tool station and in an emergency it's much faster
than clearing a path to the stop cock and frantically turning it!

Thanks again.

Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum.../sd2711/p38656


I've used them a few time, they do exactly what they say on the tin.

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

All mine had instructions, but basically you have a piece of pipe insulation
& a few cable ties to hold it on the pipe. The aerosol if squirted under
the insulation.

After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Just leave it, takes 20 mins or so.

Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

If the pipe is cold it should be OK.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

No idea.

You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet' method.
I've done that a few times as well. I'll let him describe the details :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Stephen formulated the question :
BTW these kits: what do you reuse and what has to be replaced? Is the
can single use or can you use it to do more than one pipe before it
runs out?

You can maybe get away with more than one pipe, but not to be relied
upon unless it is designed for more than one pipe. Basically you throw
the whole lot away and get a new kit - unless it is a commercial kit
which is refillable/expensive. You can also buy/hire electric freezers.

Using one takes some confidence in both the kit and your ability to get
the job done before the ice plug melts. They also only work where there
is no flow at all.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

The Medway Handyman formulated the question :
You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet' method.
I've done that a few times as well. I'll let him describe the details :-)

- Turn all the other taps on, on the loop to reduce the leakage, have
an isolation valve (plus spanners) ready to hand and turned off, plenty
of towels to soak up the mess - cut the pipe fast and slip the valve
on. Simples...

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:46:23 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Well, you don't need to drain the hot tank, just drain the cold,

That's true but how would you do this without making a mess? The only
way I can think of is by bailing out the tank with buckets or
siphoning it but that requires getting to the tank in the loft. The
problem is that no-one has been in the loft for years, there's no
lights up there and no boarding, so it's an expedition I would like to
avoid if possible! I'm still hoping there will be a valve in the
airing cupboard

Just turn the mains water to the property off, and then run a tap that is
fed from the tank, like the bath cold tap, that should do the job :-)

Toby...

Stephen coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:46:23 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Well, you don't need to drain the hot tank, just drain the cold,

That's true but how would you do this without making a mess? The only
way I can think of is by bailing out the tank with buckets or
siphoning it but that requires getting to the tank in the loft. The
problem is that no-one has been in the loft for years, there's no
lights up there and no boarding, so it's an expedition I would like to
avoid if possible! I'm still hoping there will be a valve in the
airing cupboard

Turn off the water main and open the taps until they stop running?...

OK you waste some hot water but it's easy.

Cheers

Tim

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Medway Handyman formulated the question :
You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet'
method. I've done that a few times as well. I'll let him describe
the details :-)

- Turn all the other taps on, on the loop to reduce the leakage, have
an isolation valve (plus spanners) ready to hand and turned off,
plenty of towels to soak up the mess - cut the pipe fast and slip the
valve on. Simples...

Pretty much that. I have the iso valve clamped in mole grips, upstream
olive & nut a loose fit, downstream nut & olive removed (so I don't put in
on the wrong way), spanner already adjusted to fit. Remove old paint from
pipe with nitromoors, clean pipe with wire wool.

Hose from wet vac held by helper or cable ties is a benefit :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 20 Aug, 20:20, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum...pe+Freezer+Kit...

I've used them a few time, they do exactly what they say on the tin.

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

All mine had instructions, but basically you have a piece of pipe insulation
& a few cable ties to hold it on the pipe. *The aerosol if squirted under
the insulation.



After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Just leave it, takes 20 mins or so.



Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

If the pipe is cold it should be OK.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

No idea.

You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet' method.
I've done that a few times as well. *I'll let him describe the details :-)

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

I was surprised just how long the pipe did remain frozen - MDH says 20
minutes and that is a minimum I reckon, more like 30 I remember, and
that's plenty of time to do almost any task on pipework. The
instructions were pretty clear.

Rob

On 20 Aug, 20:20, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Has anyone used a pipe freezing kit like:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum...pe+Freezer+Kit...

I've used them a few time, they do exactly what they say on the tin.

Does it come with instructions? If not, what do you do?

All mine had instructions, but basically you have a piece of pipe insulation
& a few cable ties to hold it on the pipe. *The aerosol if squirted under
the insulation.



After you have finished plumbing, do you allow the pipe to thaw
naturally, or do you apply heat to speed it along?

Just leave it, takes 20 mins or so.



Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.

If the pipe is cold it should be OK.

Is it effective on CH pipes? Doesn't fernox do an inhibitor with
antifreeze in; would it work with that?

No idea.

You could always try the John Rumm 'work fast & get a little wet' method.
I've done that a few times as well. *I'll let him describe the details :-)

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

A young guy I worked beside a few years back described in wonderful
graphic detail, changing an electric shower without being able to find
a stopcock - he stripped off and put his swimming trunks on ! It was
rather a cold exercise.

Rob

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:03:41 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Just turn the mains water to the property off, and then run a tap that is
fed from the tank, like the bath cold tap

Thanks. I was so focused on it being the hot water tap from the hot
water tank, I completely forgot that the bath cold tap came from the
tank (hopefully). Thanks again.

Stephen coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:03:41 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Just turn the mains water to the property off, and then run a tap that is
fed from the tank, like the bath cold tap

Thanks. I was so focused on it being the hot water tap from the hot
water tank, I completely forgot that the bath cold tap came from the
tank (hopefully). Thanks again.

If you're doing both taps, then run the hot after draining the cold tap - if
the hot tap is below the top of the HW cylinder, there might be more to
drain, after the cold tap has gone dry.

But I agree, draining cold first is *potentially* less wasteful.

It stands to reason that if all you're doing is changing the taps, or moving
then to a position of similar height, then once the old taps have run dry,
removing them should produce very little water - a few thick towells around
or underneath should cope with any residual. It certainly shouldn't be
gushing out. Assuming the stopcock turns off fully! Worth seeing if you
have a key for the road cock handy just in case of issues with the house
cock. Hopefully at least one of them should work properly.

Great time to stick some ballvalves in if desired, to make future tap washer
maintenance easier

Good luck

Tim

On an aside, I was thinking of using the pipe freezer once - until I saw the
cost in B&Q - one can at some hideous price to do one pipe for one session.

That made me go and seek out all the valves and check them before I started.
As it happened, the right valves worked so I didn't need to freeze stuff.

As I rebuild the system, I'm going to make sure that I include decent
quality ball valves at strategic points and turn them once a year.

A plumber doing this would possibly have a "proper" freezing kit which is
more like a mini fridge compressor with a clamp on cooling doobrey which
makes the running cost smaller (ie can be used again and again).

The canned stuff is probably useful if there is no other way, but it's not
cheap enough to make it a no brainer IMHO.

Cheers

Tim

On 20 Aug, 10:38, Stephen wrote:

Is it effective on hot water pipes? I have an elderly relative who
wants new taps in the kitchen. The problem is that there is no way to
isolate the hot water and I don't fancy climbing into an unlit,
unboarded loft to block the tank outlet.


assuming 1) you will freeze the pipes under the kitchen sink and
2) the house hot water cylinder is "normal" i.e. upstairs

I don;t thnk you'll have a prob freezing the "hot" pipe as the water
in it will most likely be cold (or cool) when you come to freeze it,
after it's frozen it won't thaw any faster just because the distant
end of the pipe is connected to a cylinder full of hot water.....

radical thought - tell rellies to turn hot water immersion/boiler off
last thing day before you go - they can use kettle and wait for new
taps to be fixed - and no wasted hot water!

cheers
jimK

what about using one of these push fit isolation valves?
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25911/...15mm-Pack-of-5

- Clean the feed pipe up before cutting it.
- Set the valve to be closed
- cut the pipe and put your finger over the cut end to stop the water
coming out
- quickly push the fitting on.

You now have an isolation valve ready for next time and can change the
taps in your own good time...

Provided you are fairly quick, you should only lose about a cup or so
of water...

In article ,
Lee Nowell wrote:
what about using one of these push fit isolation valves?
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25911/...15mm-Pack-of-5

- Clean the feed pipe up before cutting it.
- Set the valve to be closed
- cut the pipe and put your finger over the cut end to stop the water
coming out
- quickly push the fitting on.

When I've done this before I found it easier to use a valve that was turned
on as there wasn't the pressure of water making it harder to push the fitting
on.

Put a short bit of copper pipe in the other side and a hose that runs
into the sink or outside.

Surprisingly little mess! Of course, you need to make sure they are
dismountable pushfits (or I guess just then join onto the short bit of
copper...)

Darren

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:22:12 -0700 (PDT), Lee Nowell wrote:

- Clean the feed pipe up before cutting it.
- Set the valve to be closed
- cut the pipe and put your finger over the cut end to stop the water
coming out
- quickly push the fitting on.

Last time I did that was in the middle of winter chasing an ice plug
and other general grot out of the oil feed to the boiler...

Having ones hands covered in kerosene for 8hrs is not good for your
skin.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:43:25 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

You can maybe get away with more than one pipe, but not to be relied
upon unless it is designed for more than one pipe. Basically you throw
the whole lot away and get a new kit - unless it is a commercial kit
which is refillable/expensive

I never knew that. I realised the can would run out eventually but I
thought it would last for a few jobs first. Is the jacket thrown away
each time too?

I looked in the airing cupboard and there was a gate valve to isolate
the hot water. Unfortunately it has rusted and cannot be turned
because of the rust! However there was a drain cock so I could drain
the tank, meaning I did not need to buy a freezing kit.

I ran into other problems though, the tap connector nuts were seized
in place because of scale, so I've started another thread about that
(please help!)

Thanks again,
Stephen.