I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

A.Lee wrote:
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

You might well get away with just turning off the coldfeed to the HW
system opening the old sink tap till it stops flowing and doing a quick
cut and install of the isolator.
You will get some spillage but as long as you can cope with some water
on the floor it will be quicker and cheaper.
A wet(and dry) vacuum cleaner can be very useful in sucking water up
quickly.

On 4 Dec, 20:34, (A.Lee) wrote:
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Hope someone comes along with favorable reply !! I've just discovered
that the TMV on one of my radiators appears to be cuffed and I cannot
at the moment isolate that loop - (the operating pin has no spring
return). Freezer spray was what I was going to rely on.

Rob

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Get a Drayton Drain Easy Kit £10 - two rubber plugs. Put a plug into the
hot outlet of the cold tank - no need to drain system.

Also allows CH rad valves to be changed without draining!

http://www.invensyscontrolseurope.com

Peter
Drayton

Drain Easy Kit

robert wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no
stop cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while
an isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

You might well get away with just turning off the coldfeed to the HW
system opening the old sink tap till it stops flowing and doing a
quick cut and install of the isolator.
You will get some spillage but as long as you can cope with some water
on the floor it will be quicker and cheaper.
A wet(and dry) vacuum cleaner can be very useful in sucking water up
quickly.

I bought one from Wickes (made by Earlex) about three weeks ago & I wonder
how I ever managed without it. Draining rads is now quick & clean, cisterns
that dont flush are easy to empty completely. Changed a TRV on a system
that would only partially drain down on Saturday - speed is of the essence !


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 4 Dec, 20:34, (A.Lee) wrote:
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

I've used the aerosol freezers several times on cold water mains
pressure pipes with no problems.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

No need to go to the expense of freezer for this job.

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just make
up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet to the
cylinder inside the tank. Open hot tap at sink and hot tap upstairs to drain
off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil. Time? A few minutes.

Heliotrope Smith wrote:
"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the �9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

No need to go to the expense of freezer for this job.

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just make
up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet to the
cylinder inside the tank.

I'd like to see you doing that in my megaflo tank ;-)

Open hot tap at sink and hot tap upstairs to drain
off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil. Time? A few minutes.


You assume things that are not necessarily the case..

In article , Heliotrope Smith
scribeth thus

"A.Lee" wrote in message
.. .
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

No need to go to the expense of freezer for this job.

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just make
up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet to the
cylinder inside the tank. Open hot tap at sink and hot tap upstairs to drain
off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil. Time? A few minutes.



Tampax come to mind anyone?, at least its on a retrieval string;?....
--
Tony Sayer

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:01:54 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

I bought one from Wickes (made by Earlex) about three weeks ago & I
wonder how I ever managed without it. Draining rads is now quick &
clean, cisterns that dont flush are easy to empty completely. Changed a
TRV on a system that would only partially drain down on Saturday - speed
is of the essence !

Agreed, but if you misjudge it and the vac fills up and cuts off while
you're still in mid-operation you're shafted :-)

Screwfix (used to?) to a vac that pumps water out as well as sucking it up
which should be ideal for that sort of job, but it was quite pricey and I
haven't got one :-(

--
John Stumbles

I've got nothing against racists - I just wouldn't want my daughter to marry one

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:59:19 +0000, Peter Andrews wrote:

Get a Drayton Drain Easy Kit £10 - two rubber plugs. Put a plug into
the hot outlet of the cold tank - no need to drain system.

Also allows CH rad valves to be changed without draining!

http://www.invensyscontrolseurope.com

Toolstation do them (not under the drayton name)

--
John Stumbles

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:16:04 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just
make up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet
to the cylinder inside the tank. Open hot tap at sink and hot tap
upstairs to drain off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil.
Time? A few minutes.

Er, hot outlet, surely? If there are two ...

Or to be more specific, the outlet from the cold water storage tank
(usually in the attic) which goes to the bottom of the hot water cylinder.
On some installations there are two outlets of which one (which should be
slightly lower) feeds cold taps in the bathroom and maybe WC cisterns, and
the other (slightly higher) feeds the HW cylinder.

--
John Stumbles

Testiculate [v.t]
To wave one's arms around while talking ********.

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:27:40 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

Tampax come to mind anyone?, at least its on a retrieval string;?....

Be careful what you use. Once I thought a bung of bluetak would do the
job. Damn' nearly got sucked down the pipework! If you don't have a
Drayton-type bung the finger of a rubber glove with a silicone nozzle
inside it works for 15mm outlets. Vacu-vin stoppers may do for 22mm.

--
John Stumbles

Ohnosecond
Instant in time when you realise that you've just made a BIG mistake.

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

No need to go to the expense of freezer for this job.

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just
make
up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet to the
cylinder inside the tank. Open hot tap at sink and hot tap upstairs to
drain
off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil. Time? A few minutes.


Some long time ago (years) I read (I think on this group) a warning
about this method, that it could cause the HW cylinder to collapse.
Presumably closing the inlet to the cylinder, and then opening a
downstairs tap causes some negative pressure to build up somewhere
to prevent the cylinder draining. Maybe cylinders are stronger these
day? Am I talking complete cobblers?

Back on subject - I've used these freezer sprays many time, on hot
and cold water supplies and central heating pipes. Make sure there's
no water running through the pipe (it won't freeze) and that any hot
water pipes have completely cooled. If soldering the pipe keep at
least 18 inches away from frozen bit, or clip a mole wrench around
the pipe to conduct some of the heat away - and solder quickly!

When finished retain the foam jacket and plastic nozzle from the
can - you can re use them and just buy new cans of freezer spray,
cheaper than a complete kit!

David

On 5 Dec, 10:26, "DavidM" wrote:
"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message

...



"A.Lee" wrote in message
.. .
I need to drain down a hot water system soon to fit a new sink (no stop
cocks at all on the hot water side).
To save time, would buying one of the £9ish pipe freezing sprays work
for the 5 - 10 minutes that the 15mm pipe is likely to be open while an
isolator is fitted?
If so, then it could save me a hour waiting for the drain down.
Thanks
Alan.

No need to go to the expense of freezer for this job.

If there is no isolator from cold tank to cylinder (unusual) then just
make
up a bung, roll up your sleeve and insert it into the cold outlet to the
cylinder inside the tank. Open hot tap at sink and hot tap upstairs to
drain
off pipework and cut and fix isolator. Cost? Nil. Time? A few minutes.

Some long time ago (years) I read (I think on this group) a warning
about this method, that it could cause the HW cylinder to collapse.
Presumably closing the inlet to the cylinder, and then opening a
downstairs tap causes some negative pressure to build up somewhere
to prevent the cylinder draining. Maybe cylinders are stronger these
day? Am I talking complete cobblers?

Back on subject - I've used these freezer sprays many time, on hot
and cold water supplies and central heating pipes. Make sure there's
no water running through the pipe (it won't freeze) and that any hot
water pipes have completely cooled. If soldering the pipe keep at
least 18 inches away from frozen bit, or clip a mole wrench around
the pipe to conduct some of the heat away - and solder quickly!

When finished retain the foam jacket and plastic nozzle from the
can - you can re use them and just buy new cans of freezer spray,
cheaper than a complete kit!

David

A word of extra advice: Make sure you hold the spray can in a vertical
orientation, otherwise it can discharge without actually freezing
anything. I speak from bitter experience.
Use freezer spray sideways - can empties - pipe seems cold
Cut pipe - water everywhere
PANIC - look for towels - run to garage to find second can of freezer
spray - thumb over end of pipe
Discharge second can in correct orientation
Take thumb off - no water - ecstatic joy!
That was a *bad* plumbing experience.

Jon.

John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:27:40 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

Tampax come to mind anyone?, at least its on a retrieval string;?....

Be careful what you use. Once I thought a bung of bluetak would do the
job. Damn' nearly got sucked down the pipework! If you don't have a
Drayton-type bung the finger of a rubber glove with a silicone nozzle
inside it works for 15mm outlets. Vacu-vin stoppers may do for 22mm.

A carrot can be pressed into service here if you are completely stuck...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Dec 5, 10:26 am, "DavidM" wrote:

When finished retain the foam jacket and plastic nozzle from the
can - you can re use them and just buy new cans of freezer spray,
cheaper than a complete kit!

Or, if you have only the can and no jacket, I've seen a teatowel and a
couple of turns of gaffer tape work just as well!
--
Rob

John Stumbles wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:01:54 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

I bought one from Wickes (made by Earlex) about three weeks ago & I
wonder how I ever managed without it. Draining rads is now quick &
clean, cisterns that dont flush are easy to empty completely.
Changed a TRV on a system that would only partially drain down on
Saturday - speed is of the essence !

Agreed, but if you misjudge it and the vac fills up and cuts off while
you're still in mid-operation you're shafted :-)


Very true!

Screwfix (used to?) to a vac that pumps water out as well as sucking
it up which should be ideal for that sort of job, but it was quite
pricey and I haven't got one :-(

Quite a few people inc Numatic do these or have done in the past. Just a
sub pump with a float valve & a bit of pipework.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:38:35 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Quite a few people inc Numatic do these or have done in the past. Just
a sub pump with a float valve & a bit of pipework.

It did occur to me that a submersible in a suitable container before the
main vac (which wouldn't even need to be a wet'n'dry) would do the trick.

Just need to find suitable container.

--
John Stumbles

John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:38:35 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Quite a few people inc Numatic do these or have done in the past.
Just a sub pump with a float valve & a bit of pipework.

It did occur to me that a submersible in a suitable container before
the main vac (which wouldn't even need to be a wet'n'dry) would do
the trick.

Just need to find suitable container.

The vac would need to be wet & dry. Dry vacs have direct air cooling to the
motor, so moist air would fuber it. Wet vacs have by pass or secondary
cooled motors so moist air is exhaused elsewhere.

Pump out vacs tend to have the pump in the bottom of the vac container so
they tend to be larger sized machines.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:38:35 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Quite a few people inc Numatic do these or have done in the past.
Just a sub pump with a float valve & a bit of pipework.
It did occur to me that a submersible in a suitable container before
the main vac (which wouldn't even need to be a wet'n'dry) would do
the trick.

Just need to find suitable container.

The vac would need to be wet & dry. Dry vacs have direct air cooling to the
motor, so moist air would fuber it. Wet vacs have by pass or secondary
cooled motors so moist air is exhaused elsewhere.

Pump out vacs tend to have the pump in the bottom of the vac container so
they tend to be larger sized machines.


Its surprising how much these vacs hold relative to the flow rate you
get from CH and tank fed HW systems if some effort is made to restrict
the flowrate.
In my limited inexpert experience plenty of time to cut a pipe and get a
isolator, TRV or blank end on.
The nice thing I like about them is their ability to suck the water
sideways as it comes out of the pipe - no need to get the nozzle underneath.

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:39:17 +0000, robert wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
John Stumbles wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:38:35 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Quite a few people inc Numatic do these or have done in the past.
Just a sub pump with a float valve & a bit of pipework.
It did occur to me that a submersible in a suitable container before
the main vac (which wouldn't even need to be a wet'n'dry) would do the
trick.

Just need to find suitable container.

The vac would need to be wet & dry. Dry vacs have direct air cooling
to the motor, so moist air would fuber it. Wet vacs have by pass or
secondary cooled motors so moist air is exhaused elsewhere.

Pump out vacs tend to have the pump in the bottom of the vac container
so they tend to be larger sized machines.


Its surprising how much these vacs hold relative to the flow rate you
get from CH and tank fed HW systems if some effort is made to restrict
the flowrate.
In my limited inexpert experience plenty of time to cut a pipe and get a
isolator, TRV or blank end on.
The nice thing I like about them is their ability to suck the water
sideways as it comes out of the pipe - no need to get the nozzle
underneath.

Well my apprentice and I did something pretty similar to change a stop
valve on the mains the other week. We got everything ready had the full
bore lever valve OPEN then simply chopped through the horizontal pipe
with the pipe cutter I held the bucket and he put the valve on to the
pipe, as soon as it was on I held the valve firmly in place, he turned
the valve off and then tightened the compression nut. We also had a 15mm
speedfit button to hand if all else failed and we were in a cellar.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

robert wrote:
SNIP
Its surprising how much these vacs hold relative to the flow rate you
get from CH and tank fed HW systems if some effort is made to restrict
the flowrate.
In my limited inexpert experience plenty of time to cut a pipe and
get a isolator, TRV or blank end on.
The nice thing I like about them is their ability to suck the water
sideways as it comes out of the pipe - no need to get the nozzle
underneath.

I think thats the fun thing. Getting the water to follow the airflow - you
can even make the water go around pipes!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257