Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim.

"Tim Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?


Double sided sticky pads.

Hellraiser...........

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

"Tim Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had
those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?


Double sided sticky pads.

Hellraiser...........

hot melt glue or epoxy

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

"Tim Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?


Double sided sticky pads.

just don't stick anything heavy up with them, my net curtains have just
fallen down for the third time (and they're stuck up with the fixings that
they came with, in case anyone thinks it's *my* bodge)

tim



Hellraiser...........

In article ,
"Tim Jenkins" writes:
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

Any thoughts?

I find that hard to believe, but obviously you mustn't put the
screws through into one of the rubber strip seals or part of the
window mechanism or break through into drainage channels, etc.
You might find you could glue them on with PVC solvent weld if
it will stick to whatever the contacts are made of. Be very
careful not to get it onto the PVC frames except under the contact
as it will mark the PVC and you'll never get the mark off.

I got my installer to deliver all the frames 3 days before they
were installed, and I fitted all the contacts to them before the
installers put the frames in, and the cable is threaded inside
the frames. The installer was actually rather impressed...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Tim Jenkins wrote:
Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

For my patio doors, I removed the reed relay from the case and superglued
it inside one of the cover strips in the door jam, and screwed the magnet
to the door, although it could also have been glued. The wiring was easy
since all the frame is hollow.

Not tried with a window, and of course I installed mine myself so could
dismantle it as necessary - not so easy when it's been fitted.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I got my installer to deliver all the frames 3 days before they
were installed, and I fitted all the contacts to them before the
installers put the frames in, and the cable is threaded inside
the frames. The installer was actually rather impressed...

In my innocence, I assumed they'd allowed for the fitting of switches in
the design, given how many houses now have alarms.

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Tim Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim.



Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ? Aren't the rooms
covered by PIR's ? Are you hoping someone will try to open the window
rather than cut out the glass double glazing unit, which is the most likely
to happen ?

I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but magnetic
contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.


---
www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 16/10/03

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but
magnetic contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.

If nothing else they will give a reminder if one is left open.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article , BigWallop
writes

Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ? Aren't the rooms
covered by PIR's ? Are you hoping someone will try to open the window
rather than cut out the glass double glazing unit, which is the most likely
to happen ?

I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but magnetic
contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.

Can't imagine anyone bothering to cut through 2 sheets of glass to get in,
did you mean remove the DG unit by forcing the frame? In spite of the 'high
security' claims of multi point locked plastic windows, I can't see them
lasting 2mins to a jemmied/screwdrivered attack, then a contact would be
useful.

Can you tell us a bit about what you've seen in the wild? I imagine you get
a lot of domestic work after they've had their first burglary, so what's the
favoured method of entry (after the open window of course ;-).
--
fred

In article ,
"BigWallop" writes:

Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ?

To tell you that you forgot to shut a window when you arm the system.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Tim Jenkins" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim.

Most windows have a channel in the top of the opening part, a magnet glues
in here easily. In all the windows I've seen (not that many) there's been
enough space between the window and the frame to glue a reed relay - but
then you need to drill a hole through the frame to pass the cable through.

Dave S

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but
magnetic contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.

If nothing else they will give a reminder if one is left open.



Left open ? You mean you don't check that all the windows are locked secure
before you leave the house, and have to rely on the alarm to tell you,
you've missed something ? Sorry to say this, but, "You're asking to be
burgled" relying on this method of security.

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , BigWallop
writes

Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ? Aren't the rooms
covered by PIR's ? Are you hoping someone will try to open the window
rather than cut out the glass double glazing unit, which is the most
likely
to happen ?

I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but
magnetic
contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.

Can't imagine anyone bothering to cut through 2 sheets of glass to get in,
did you mean remove the DG unit by forcing the frame? In spite of the
'high
security' claims of multi point locked plastic windows, I can't see them
lasting 2mins to a jemmied/screwdrivered attack, then a contact would be
useful.

Can you tell us a bit about what you've seen in the wild? I imagine you
get
a lot of domestic work after they've had their first burglary, so what's
the
favoured method of entry (after the open window of course ;-).
--
fred

Well, the most favoured attacks by the vocational drug crazed bandits are
forced entry by grabbing the person as they leave or enter the house and
beating them until they find out where all the most valuable items are in
the house. But I don't want to frighten you to much about the rising the
statistics of this type of attack. Car jacking is also done this way.

The next method is the prizing off of the outer leaf of the window frame in
modern double glazing units. Most aluminium is soft enough to break at the
corner welds and uPVC is soft enough to just break away or bend out. Then
the whole glass unit is lifted out and they have a huge opening to get
things in and out of the house. This method is not restricted to ground
floor windows either.

Another method is the screwdriver in the side of the lock on the new doors.
The large screwdriver is punched through the door skin and the lock is then
wrenched out allowing them to pull the locking system away from the side
catches and opening the door.

But the best favoured by most would be bandits is still the opportunity of
open windows and doors, and this is neither restricted by the occupant being
away or in attendance. It is only the more professional thief that goes for
the quieter area to make the full break in attempts.

I have to admit that the perimeter sensors are becoming an obsolete item in
the alarm systems of today. The best method of protection is the PIR in the
room itself. The final entry / exit point can be a PIR instead of a reed
switch if you wish, so you don't need to be set on contacts to begin the
entry time down on the system.

It is still a fact that the everyday burglar will think twice about
attacking a property which they believe is connected directly to a response
service, because they don't really want to get caught or even draw attention
to themselves if possible. The professional thief will only target a simple
get in and grab situation and they don't really want to hang around to see
if the police will give them a car chase around town like you see on the
television.

We have three EX burglars working on our team, and you wouldn't know they
were ever capable of carrying out this type of crime because of their
demeanour today. They are fantastic at showing people how simple it is to
by-pass things which the customer thinks is impossible to do disarm. They
are an invaluable part of the team in the training of other engineers who
know only how to fit the equipment and not exactly how or where it should be
placed to give the best possible protection. But these guys can show you
how not to do it, which is much better at just guessing.

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , BigWallop
writes

Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ? Aren't the rooms
covered by PIR's ? Are you hoping someone will try to open the window
rather than cut out the glass double glazing unit, which is the most likely
to happen ?

I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock
inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but magnetic
contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.

Can't imagine anyone bothering to cut through 2 sheets of glass to get in,

but you don't cut it, you just use one of those 'professional' breakers
to shatter it, one pane at a time.

did you mean remove the DG unit by forcing the frame? In spite of the 'high
security' claims of multi point locked plastic windows, I can't see them
lasting 2mins to a jemmied/screwdrivered attack, then a contact would be
useful.

Can you tell us a bit about what you've seen in the wild?

The fire brigade broke into mine by extracting the external beading. They
actually found this rather difficult, making a mess of three windows before
they got one open. I believe that external beading is now not allowed
under the new regs (abolishing the rip-off of charging extra for internal
at a stroke). The 'window' that they got through was actually a 'solid'
panel. From a security pov these are a joke. If you don't have a
problem with destroying it (which fortunately the FB did) you can cut
through it, silently, with a hand drill and a keyhole saw in a few minutes.

tim


I imagine you get
a lot of domestic work after they've had their first burglary, so what's the
favoured method of entry (after the open window of course ;-).
--
fred

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
If nothing else they will give a reminder if one is left open.

Left open ? You mean you don't check that all the windows are locked
secure before you leave the house, and have to rely on the alarm to tell
you, you've missed something ? Sorry to say this, but, "You're asking
to be burgled" relying on this method of security.

I'm happy for you that you always have the time to do this whenever you
slip out for 5 minutes. ;-)

My windows are either locked or open. If I forget to close one then the
alarm will tell me. I live on my own, so don't have to go running round
checking up on what others have and haven't done.

As regards removing the glazing units as a means of entry, this might be
so. But with a normal window a burglar won't usually risk crawling through
broken glass so will force the window open, and this will set off the
alarm. But I've got PIRs and pressure pads as well...

--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
If nothing else they will give a reminder if one is left open.

Left open ? You mean you don't check that all the windows are locked
secure before you leave the house, and have to rely on the alarm to tell
you, you've missed something ? Sorry to say this, but, "You're asking
to be burgled" relying on this method of security.

I'm happy for you that you always have the time to do this whenever you
slip out for 5 minutes. ;-)

My windows are either locked or open. If I forget to close one then the
alarm will tell me. I live on my own, so don't have to go running round
checking up on what others have and haven't done.

As regards removing the glazing units as a means of entry, this might be
so. But with a normal window a burglar won't usually risk crawling through
broken glass so will force the window open, and this will set off the
alarm. But I've got PIRs and pressure pads as well...

--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *

Dave Plowman

Now pressure sensors on the windows are better. Bubble tube on the sills
also works fine and only detects things over a couple of stone in weight (
i'm useless at metric weight), so can pick up anyone kneeling or standing on
the sill. They can also be used around the edges of roofs and things. The
noeprene tube seal around the window can also have a pressure wire inserted.
This activates if the window is being forced or opened. But I, like many
others, can fool a magnetic sensor into letting me pass without detection.

Try this test: Take a large magnet, one from the magnet base of car antenna
is the best, and hold it on the outside of the window where the sensor is.

In article ,
BigWallop writes

big snip

Thanks for the insight.

I used to think PIRs were just a lazy installer's way of making life easy for
themselves and suppose I still do where they are the only method of
defence. I used to come in from a bike ride on a cold night & didn't trigger
any of the PIRs in my folks place, so I don't place ultimate faith in them,
even with newer technology.

I reckon there's still a place for perimeter protection as if my alarm goes off
before they gain entry I am less likely to suffer a major loss whereas if I
wait until they are on the premises there is a greater risk of grabbing a few
goodies before they go.

I suppose I'm into layering the security, and not just the alarm, eg. weak
locks on the storm doors but hidden contacts followed by huge security on
inner door so that the sounders are going while an attack is in progress.

Thanks again & I'll def be hiding any new contacts I put in ;-)
--
fred

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
Try this test: Take a large magnet, one from the magnet base of car
antenna is the best, and hold it on the outside of the window where the
sensor is.


Well, yes. But my sensors aren't professionally installed, so neither they
or their wiring is visible ;-) - unless the door or window is opened.

I'm not pretending that my system is state of the art - far from it. But
then I've got nothing pro burglars would be interested in. Just trying to
stop the opportunist types.

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
(Tim Jenkins) wrote:

Hello,

Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had
those
magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of
fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the
guarantee if you screw things into them ?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim.




The bloke that fitted my alarm told me that uPVC doors can be specified
with reed switches built in. I don't know if this is true (and I guess
it's no help to you, but I'd like to know if that is correct or not).

Mark W.