Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Thanks.

Arthur

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?


Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.

On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:
Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? *If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.

I should have considered that. Thanks.

Arthur

On Feb 27, 1:10*pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? *If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.

I should have considered that. * *Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:27:31 -0800 (PST), Arthur 51
wrote:

Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Thanks.

Arthur

This one any good to you? :-)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...uglas-fir.html

On 27 Feb, 13:25, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10*pm, Arthur 51 wrote:

On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? *If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all..

I should have considered that. * *Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

The bookcase will be about 50cm wide and about 20cm deep.

Arthur

On 27 Feb, 13:26, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:27:31 -0800 (PST), Arthur 51

wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Thanks.

Arthur

This one any good to you? :-)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...04989/Britains...

Amazing tree!
This DF has been on ebay for some time. Wish I could afford it...
http://tinyurl.com/cc224s

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:27:31 -0800 (PST)
Arthur 51 wrote:

Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Thanks.

Arthur

I made some bookshelves from a similar pine last year. 18mm
everywhere. The verticals are no problem, but you have to be careful
of the width with books - they can be very heavy.
I opted for verticals every 300mm, but another way is to reinforce the
shelves in some way.

R.

On 27 Feb, 13:39, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:25, Martin Bonner wrote:



On Feb 27, 1:10*pm, Arthur 51 wrote:

On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? *If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.

I should have considered that. * *Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

The bookcase will be about 50cm wide and about 20cm deep.

Arthur

I should say..the shelves will be about 20cm deep. The sides will
will be 25cm wide.

Arthur

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at
all.

I should have considered that. Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

You're joking right? 19mm solid wood boards would be adequate for bookcase
shelves several feet long. I've got a reproduction bureau with shelves about
1cm thick and 1 metre long and although they do sag somewhat when fully
loaded they can hold a full shelf of books ok. A 3/4" shelf, i.e. a
floorboard in so many words isn't going to raise much of a sweat with a few
pounds of books on it. Without doing a lot of tedious calculations I'd
estimate that they'd be fine at 4' long regardless of what you put on them
and although they might sag a bit at 6' long a small central vertical prop
would solve that easily enough.
--
Dave Baker

Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:26, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:27:31 -0800 (PST), Arthur 51

wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?
Thanks.
Arthur
This one any good to you? :-)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...04989/Britains...

Amazing tree!
This DF has been on ebay for some time. Wish I could afford it...
http://tinyurl.com/cc224s



DF reminds me of churches and old school buildings, both of which I find
depressing

Dave Baker wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that
thickness for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a
problem at all.

I should have considered that. Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about
a foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

You're joking right? 19mm solid wood boards would be adequate for
bookcase shelves several feet long. I've got a reproduction bureau
with shelves about 1cm thick and 1 metre long and although they do
sag somewhat when fully loaded they can hold a full shelf of books
ok. A 3/4" shelf, i.e. a floorboard in so many words isn't going to
raise much of a sweat with a few pounds of books on it. Without doing
a lot of tedious calculations I'd estimate that they'd be fine at 4'
long regardless of what you put on them and although they might sag a
bit at 6' long a small central vertical prop would solve that easily
enough.

The OP needs...... The Sagulator!
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?

Thanks.

Arthur
Yes. Its stiffness you need to worry about with loaded 'slender columns'
but shelves and a back will brace that well enough.

Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?
Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.
I should have considered that. Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

I'd go bit longer than that, especially if supported with a screwed
down back to the shelving.

I'd say 1.5m or so will be OK for most loads. Ive got cheap contiboard
shelves in 12mm faced chip doing that span.

The worst used to be old vinyl records..

Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:39, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:25, Martin Bonner wrote:



On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:
Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?
Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that thickness
for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a problem at all.
I should have considered that. Thanks.
You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.
The bookcase will be about 50cm wide and about 20cm deep.

Arthur

I should say..the shelves will be about 20cm deep. The sides will
will be 25cm wide.

Arthur
No problems at all then.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals
which will be 2.8m high?

Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that
thickness for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a
problem at all.

I should have considered that. Thanks.

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about
a foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

You're joking right? 19mm solid wood boards would be adequate for
bookcase shelves several feet long. I've got a reproduction bureau
with shelves about 1cm thick and 1 metre long and although they do
sag somewhat when fully loaded they can hold a full shelf of books
ok. A 3/4" shelf, i.e. a floorboard in so many words isn't going to
raise much of a sweat with a few pounds of books on it. Without doing
a lot of tedious calculations I'd estimate that they'd be fine at 4'
long regardless of what you put on them and although they might sag a
bit at 6' long a small central vertical prop would solve that easily
enough.

The OP needs...... The Sagulator!
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Cool

My gut feel was spot on. An 8" deep shelf, 4' long even with 25 lbs of books
per foot is nicely under the target deflection and just goes over it at 5'
long. I also think that 25 lbs per foot is way over what any normal books I
own weigh although you could probably manage it with A4 sized catalogues
like my engine component ones which weigh about 2 lbs per linear inch.
Normal books about 8" high would be half that or less and the shelves would
be ok up to 6' long.
--
Dave Baker

On 27 Feb, 13:25, Martin Bonner wrote:

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

Why not? Strength or sag, and how long a bookshelf are you assuming?

Assuming 4' span width (typical chimney-side alcove) I'd use 1/2", but
I'd also use a bit more complex construction than just a "goalpost".
As well as the side uprights, I'd also have a couple of uprights along
the back, probably 2" wide.

1/2" is easily strong enough in pure compression for the uprights.
Your failure would be if they started to wobble, then a crumpling
failure by them bending. However you also need stiffness to avoid
wobbling that's annoying, but not structurally damaging, and that will
take care of the crumple risk too. Either diagonalise, or just a back
panel of something thin that's glued in place (pins will creep out
with movement, and it's all long-grain so moisture expansion isn't an
issue).

Try the on-line Sagulator if you want numbers.

On 27 Feb, 14:29, "Dave Baker" wrote:

I also think that 25 lbs per foot is way over what any normal books I
own weigh although you could probably manage it with A4 sized catalogues

Catalogues or magazines. Book density is at its worst for modern high-
gloss, thin paper. Paperbacks are low enough in height that it doesn't
matter, most printed "books" are thicker paper with less mineral
filler. Hardbacks are actually lighter, as the boards are less dense
than the signature blocks. My "heaviest looking" books (huge Victorian
antiquarian stuff) are actually some of my lightest , or at least the
least dense (per inch of height, although they are heavy per shelf).

"The Medway Handyman" wrote:

The OP needs...... The Sagulator!
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm


We all need one of those!

Absolutely wonderful - thanks for posting the link.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
The OP needs...... The Sagulator!
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Great site.

Dave Baker wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
Martin Bonner wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:10 pm, Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:00, Bruce wrote:

Arthur 51 wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals
which will be 2.8m high?
Yes, why not? If IKEA can use foil-faced chipboard of that
thickness for similar heights, solid Douglas Fir should not be a
problem at all.
I should have considered that. Thanks.
You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about
a foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.
You're joking right? 19mm solid wood boards would be adequate for
bookcase shelves several feet long. I've got a reproduction bureau
with shelves about 1cm thick and 1 metre long and although they do
sag somewhat when fully loaded they can hold a full shelf of books
ok. A 3/4" shelf, i.e. a floorboard in so many words isn't going to
raise much of a sweat with a few pounds of books on it. Without doing
a lot of tedious calculations I'd estimate that they'd be fine at 4'
long regardless of what you put on them and although they might sag a
bit at 6' long a small central vertical prop would solve that easily
enough.
The OP needs...... The Sagulator!
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Cool

My gut feel was spot on. An 8" deep shelf, 4' long even with 25 lbs of books
per foot is nicely under the target deflection and just goes over it at 5'
long. I also think that 25 lbs per foot is way over what any normal books I
own weigh although you could probably manage it with A4 sized catalogues
like my engine component ones which weigh about 2 lbs per linear inch.
Normal books about 8" high would be half that or less and the shelves would
be ok up to 6' long.

The trickiest part is determining the design load/ft.

Stuart Noble wrote:
Arthur 51 wrote:
On 27 Feb, 13:26, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:27:31 -0800 (PST), Arthur 51

wrote:
Hi all.
I quite fancy douglas fir for my bookshel/cabinet project.
SL Hardwoods have 290mm x 19mm x 3m (finished sizes)
My question is, is 19mm adequate thickness for the verticals which
will be 2.8m high?
Thanks.
Arthur
This one any good to you?
:-)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/env...04989/Britains...


Amazing tree!
This DF has been on ebay for some time. Wish I could afford it...
http://tinyurl.com/cc224s



DF reminds me of churches and old school buildings, both of which I find
depressing

We used to own a California bungalow in Pasadena that was made of
Douglas fir, with a lot of wood panelling and ledges in the living room.
We stripped all the old varnish + paint, and satin polyurethaned. The
floor had also been painted, so that was also stripped and
polyurethaned. The house was transformed into something quite fine.
The wood used on the floor was a bit on the soft side though.

My wife still reproaches me for leaving it behind :-(

TheOldFellow wrote:

I made some bookshelves from a similar pine last year. 18mm
everywhere. The verticals are no problem, but you have to be careful
of the width with books - they can be very heavy.
I opted for verticals every 300mm, but another way is to reinforce the
shelves in some way.


I think you were a bit pessimistic.

I made myself some shelves from one inch pine some years back, stuffed
them full of books, and they were *far* stiffer than needed. They got
recycled into garage shelves and were quite capable of carrying toolboxes.

My current bookshelves are cheap melamine coated 17mm chip on 30 inch
centres, stuffed full, and the only visible sag is where I didn't get
the uprights quite level.

For 50cm shelves I think any old **** will do, the pine will be plenty
strong enough - and look better than mine!

Andy

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Martin Bonner
saying something like:

You did explicitly say "for the verticals", but just to make su
19mm is /not/ adequate for the actual shelves (unless they are about a
foot long, and only holding one layer of paperbacks.

I find 19mm perfectly adequate for bearing assorted loads of books /pc
gear /camera equipment if supported at 3' intervals - could probably go
wider.