One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:25:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

Yes. Pure unadulterated snake oil.

wrote in message
...
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

Many people have tried and used such devices.

It will not work.

Scale Wizards website states "that water remains chemically unchanged". So
there you have the proof. £90 to do sod all.

Adam

On Feb 24, 4:25*pm, wrote:
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

Then you can get a magnet that goes on your cars gas line, and one on
your head

ransley wrote:
On Feb 24, 4:25 pm, wrote:
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

Then you can get a magnet that goes on your cars gas line, and one on
your head

The latter would never penetrate my alluminiun foil hat though....


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

There should be an entry in the FAQ about this.

(Steve Firth) writes:

wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.

No, the rational scientific view is

1. the explanations given by the manufacturers are pure
bull****

2. It's difficult to come up with an explanation that fits
with our otherwise very effective understanding of the
physics and chemistry involved

and

3. Nearly all the respectable tests show no effect.

hence

4. They almost certainly¹ don't work.

[1] almost certainly, like "I almost certainly won't win the
lottery² tomorrow".

[2] I've never bought a lottery ticket. Maybe someone
accidentally bought one in my name?

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.



Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications. However, IIRC, for a magnet to be effective on the typical
domestic mains supply it would need to be the size of a large fridge.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

No, but funnily enough just the other day I was reading this:

http://www.magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/magnet_scams.htm

Shortened:

http://is.gd/kN6t

I do happen to know someone who sells these things and swears blind that
they really do work. But then, if I were selling them, I do the same

Al.

Stuart Noble wrote:

Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications.

As I've posted before, a building maanger in a place I worked at got
tired of paying for water treatment chemicals. He installed several of
these "scale inhibitors" and ceased to use the tried and tested methods
of avoiding scale formation (water softener and phosphates). Within a
couple of years of the chance the boiler for two industrial scale
autoclaves suffered from severe scale build up. Energy costs rose and
descaling and maintenance costs went through the roof. He was sacked.

The reason why these and similar systems are used in industrial
applications are that there are individuals who believe in witchcraft
and they purchase the systems in question. Not every business purchase
is based on performing an objective evaluation of the system to be
purchased.


However, IIRC, for a magnet to be effective on the typical
domestic mains supply it would need to be the size of a large fridge.

Even then it's going to do precisely **** all.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
m...
Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.



Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications. However, IIRC, for a magnet to be effective on the typical
domestic mains supply it would need to be the size of a large fridge.

I believe the industrial "successes" (if such they be) are those with
permanent magnets rather than coils and where the systems are sealed (ie the
same water passes the magnet many times), *entirely* different to a poxy
little coil on a rising main, which will have no effect at all.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

wrote in message
...
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?



My missus bought one of these some years ago and I duly fitted it.

The kettle *seemed* to stay cleaner for a bit longer but still scaled up
eventually.

A month or so after fitting, the head on our electric shower started to
block regularly and needed cleaning twice a week or so.
If I ran the shower on full flow without the head, bits of crap would come
out for quite some time, and, upon closer inspection I could see that they
were bits of limescale with a slight curve on them which indicated to me
that they had come from the element.

I unplugged the scalewatcher a month ago and have not needed to clean the
shower head since, the kettle looks the same.

My verdict: (A) They *do* something to the water in the system.
(B) They are ****.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
m...
Steve Firth wrote:
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications. However, IIRC, for a magnet to be effective on the typical
domestic mains supply it would need to be the size of a large fridge.

No reason why snake oil can't be sold for industrial applications :-)

The Medway Handyman wrote:

The latter would never penetrate my alluminiun foil hat though....

At half term we went to a show at the Peter Harrison Planetarium at
the Royal Observatory, Greenwich. It's covered in an 8mm phosphor bronze
shell.

At the start of the show they asked us to turn off our mobile phones but
commented that anyone who could get a signal must have quite a phone!

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/places/royal-ob...y/planetarium/

Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd

(Steve Firth) writes:

Stuart Noble wrote:

Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications.

As I've posted before, a building maanger in a place I worked at got
tired of paying for water treatment chemicals. He installed several of
these "scale inhibitors" and ceased to use the tried and tested methods
of avoiding scale formation (water softener and phosphates).

Recently having had to have the plate heat exchanger on my
combi replaced, I was looking at the Cistermiser siliphos
thing that someone mentioned in another thread. It seems to
be ca £100 + a refill costing about £15 each year
afterwards. The boiler had been there about six years before
the replacement, so that would make 100+5*15 = £175 (and VAT
on top). Having the exchanger replaced cost me £170.

If I'd had one fitted (instead of the stupid magnet that the
installers insisted on fitting, and in which I never had the
slightest confidence) at the start, I might be about to
break even. If I fit one now, what are the chances that the
rest of the boiler will still be going in six years?

Argh.
--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

This man needs to be sectioned and tagged.

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
m...

Doesn't quite explain why similar systems are used in industrial
applications. However, IIRC, for a magnet to be effective on the typical
domestic mains supply it would need to be the size of a large fridge.

They have been sued to great effect on commercial systems for decades.

"Franko" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?



My missus bought one of these some years ago and I duly fitted it.

The kettle *seemed* to stay cleaner for a bit longer but still scaled up
eventually.

A month or so after fitting, the head on our electric shower started to
block regularly and needed cleaning twice a week or so.
If I ran the shower on full flow without the head, bits of crap would come
out for quite some time, and, upon closer inspection I could see that they
were bits of limescale with a slight curve on them which indicated to me
that they had come from the element.

I unplugged the scalewatcher a month ago and have not needed to clean the
shower head since, the kettle looks the same.

It appears it was doing its job and removing the scale on the pipes and
element. If you left it longer the caked on scale may have been removed and
the all clear after. You should have ran with it longer.

Franko wrote:
wrote in message
...
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?



My missus bought one of these some years ago and I duly fitted it.

The kettle *seemed* to stay cleaner for a bit longer but still scaled up
eventually.

A month or so after fitting, the head on our electric shower started to
block regularly and needed cleaning twice a week or so.
If I ran the shower on full flow without the head, bits of crap would come
out for quite some time, and, upon closer inspection I could see that they
were bits of limescale with a slight curve on them which indicated to me
that they had come from the element.

I unplugged the scalewatcher a month ago and have not needed to clean the
shower head since, the kettle looks the same.

My verdict: (A) They *do* something to the water in the system.
(B) They are ****.



I bought one of those in '89, got it cheap after buying several from a
company for industrial applications.
First thing I noticed was all the crap coming out of the shower head,
then a few weeping leaks from some of my pipework (Scale was plugging
the leaks) The kettle now just has lime slush in the base which is easy
to wash out.
Prior to the unit being fitted I de scaled every month, now about every
6 months.

My verdict: (A) they *do* something to the water in the system
(B) Perfectly happy with the results

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

You just switch it on and leave it.

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?



My missus bought one of these some years ago and I duly fitted it.

The kettle *seemed* to stay cleaner for a bit longer but still scaled up
eventually.

A month or so after fitting, the head on our electric shower started to
block regularly and needed cleaning twice a week or so.
If I ran the shower on full flow without the head, bits of crap would
come out for quite some time, and, upon closer inspection I could see
that they were bits of limescale with a slight curve on them which
indicated to me that they had come from the element.

I unplugged the scalewatcher a month ago and have not needed to clean the
shower head since, the kettle looks the same.

It appears it was doing its job and removing the scale on the pipes and
element. If you left it longer the caked on scale may have been removed
and the all clear after. You should have ran with it longer.


How much longer though??
I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower each day
for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all directions apart from on
me. I have tried different shower heads but they all block the same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and not the
just the walls & floor.
You say that the caked on scale may have been removed after time - but
judging by the amount I got out of the system on a bi-weekly basis this
would not have happened, I presume that the scale builds up to a certain
extent but doesn't take hold as easy as normal and is then ejected as little
bits.
I would rather pay out to fit a new shower unit every 10 years or so once
scaled up than have to endure a crappy shower.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

They have been sued to great effect on commercial systems

So they should be.

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower each day
for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all directions apart from on
me. I have tried different shower heads but they all block the same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and not the
just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a
year and it still does the job with an overnight soak

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:19:19 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

There should be an entry in the FAQ about this.

There is http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Limescale
(about Limescale, not Drivel ... oh maybe there should be one about him
too).

I've also written about it on my work site http://yaph.co.uk/Limescale/


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
and Pop Psychologists are from Uranus

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:18:29 +0000, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

If I'd had one fitted (instead of the stupid magnet that the
installers insisted on fitting, and in which I never had the
slightest confidence) at the start, I might be about to
break even. If I fit one now, what are the chances that the
rest of the boiler will still be going in six years?

Screwfix do a phosphate dosing one for about £35 - single stage
whole-house scale inhibitor. Refills about £15 but much bigger & should
last longer than Combimate (combimate refills are about £20).


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Life is nature's way of keeping meat fresh

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:49:51 +0000, Al wrote:

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

No, but funnily enough just the other day I was reading this:

http://www.magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/magnet_scams.htm

I did come across one installation with a magnetic thingy on the CW supply
to the tanks that had absolutely no sign of either limescale (in the
storage tank or HW cylinder) or any other form of scale inhibitor.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

My other sigs are posh

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:15:34 +0000, Corporal Jones wrote:

My verdict: (A) they *do* something to the water in the system
(B) Perfectly happy with the results

Having descaled boilers "protected" by various types of scale "inhibitor"
I reckon they may work in some circumstances (see another post of mine in
this thread about a magnetic device that seemed to have worked) but that
they can't be relied on.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

What is a simile like?

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

This man needs to be sectioned and tagged.


Is there anyone that you do not tag and section?

Adam

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower each
day for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all directions apart
from on me. I have tried different shower heads but they all block the
same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and not
the just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a year
and it still does the job with an overnight soak


Because roughly 12 hours after doing that, the thing starts spraying random
spurts out of the partly blocked holes in a pretty pattern around the
bathroom.

Peter Parry wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:25:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Anyone tried one of these or anything similar?

Yes. Pure unadulterated snake oil.

Are you now telling me that snake oil doesn't work?

I'm gutted after spending so much on it :-)

Dave

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:58:44 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

This man needs to be sectioned and tagged.

Whereas you should be sectioned an' de-todged.

Derek

YAPH writes:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:18:29 +0000, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

If I'd had one fitted (instead of the stupid magnet that the
installers insisted on fitting, and in which I never had the
slightest confidence) at the start, I might be about to
break even. If I fit one now, what are the chances that the
rest of the boiler will still be going in six years?

Screwfix do a phosphate dosing one for about £35 - single stage
whole-house scale inhibitor. Refills about £15 but much bigger & should
last longer than Combimate (combimate refills are about £20).

Thanks. Is that 68371? (£40 now) it looks less pretentious
than the Combimate, too. The refills seem to be about £25,
though, so I get 5*25+40 = £165, which is better than the
Combimate, but still suspiciously close to the cost of
replacing the exchanger! [The Screwfix description says "12
month cartridge life", though of course it could last
longer]

One question about either of these is that they say "Must be
fitted away from direct heat. " The boiler (Ideal Isar¹) case
doesn't get that warm, but it's in a cupboard, so gets
significantly warmer than ambient. Would that be a problem?


[1] Don't say anything!

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

They have been sued to great effect on commercial systems

So they should be.

This one needs tagging.

"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

One of the shopping channels is currently selling this. It's just a
wire wrapped around the rising main pipe, presumably creating a
magnetic field.

Oh FFS.

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

This man needs to be sectioned and tagged.

Is there anyone that you do not tag and section?

Many need it and the system is letting us down.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:19:19 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Look there are two schools of thought on this. One is the rational,
scientific view that such a device cannot produce the effects claimed.
And the other is the view of ****wits like Dr Drivel.

There should be an entry in the FAQ about this.

There is http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Limescale
(about Limescale, not Drivel ... oh maybe there should be one about him
too).

I've also written about it on my work site http://yaph.co.uk/Limescale/

They actually work in any cases as few on here have stated. The industrial
version do work.

"Franko" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower each
day for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all directions apart
from on me. I have tried different shower heads but they all block the
same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and not
the just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a year
and it still does the job with an overnight soak


Because roughly 12 hours after doing that, the thing starts spraying
random spurts out of the partly blocked holes in a pretty pattern around
the bathroom.

It is release the scale from inside, once gone it will be clear. Run with
it until it has gone. It appears to be working.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower each
day for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all directions
apart from on me. I have tried different shower heads but they all
block the same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and not
the just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a
year and it still does the job with an overnight soak


Because roughly 12 hours after doing that, the thing starts spraying
random spurts out of the partly blocked holes in a pretty pattern around
the bathroom.

It is release the scale from inside, once gone it will be clear. Run with
it until it has gone. It appears to be working.

Daily, and for how many years do you propose I do this until I get a decent
shower ?

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

You should have ran with it longer.

How do you "ran" with something?

Tim

"Franko" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower
each day for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all
directions apart from on me. I have tried different shower heads but
they all block the same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and
not the just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a
year and it still does the job with an overnight soak


Because roughly 12 hours after doing that, the thing starts spraying
random spurts out of the partly blocked holes in a pretty pattern around
the bathroom.

It is release the scale from inside, once gone it will be clear. Run
with it until it has gone. It appears to be working.

Daily, and for how many years do you propose I do this until I get a
decent shower ?

Do you or don't you want scale? It was getting rid of it for you, doing
what it is supposed to do. Unscrewing the shower head a few times a week
until it is gone is not a great thing.

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

You should have ran with it longer.

How do you "ran" with something?

You are thicker than what I thought, you need to lern sum Engulish.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Franko" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...

I love my showers but have had to put up with having a crap shower
each day for the past 7 or so years, with water going in all
directions apart from on me. I have tried different shower heads but
they all block the same.
I can now have a shower with the water actually getting me wet, and
not the just the walls & floor.

Why don't you just stick the shower head in a tub of dilute acid every
week or so? I've been using the same (sulphamic) solution for over a
year and it still does the job with an overnight soak


Because roughly 12 hours after doing that, the thing starts spraying
random spurts out of the partly blocked holes in a pretty pattern
around the bathroom.

It is release the scale from inside, once gone it will be clear. Run
with it until it has gone. It appears to be working.

Daily, and for how many years do you propose I do this until I get a
decent shower ?

Do you or don't you want scale? It was getting rid of it for you, doing
what it is supposed to do. Unscrewing the shower head a few times a week
until it is gone is not a great thing.



I do not want scale, but even more so, I do not want to clean the showerhead
and flush the system for 30 minutes and refit - only for the missus and me
to have one shower each, and then need to start the whole cleaning process
again.
I will reiterate, the scaling still happens, only it does not build up on
the element as it normally would.

The scale is released through the system slowly, mostly as little specks
which fit rather too conveniently in the holes on the showerhead thus
causing it to **** out at stupid angles rather than on top of the person
standing underneath it.

I had thought about fitting a filter to the hose but imagine that this would
block even quicker than the head, causing the shower unit to overheat and
cut out.