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Default Hmm tools...

Treated myself to one of these cordless screwdrivers today from the Screwfix
counter in Tunbridge Wells: Yes I know, could have got it cheaper on the
web, but couldn't wait...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/87155/...ewdriver-Drill

Very impressed that for something that is so small and light it seems to
have some reasonable grunt.

It made kitchen disassembly today very pleasant and much easier to do single
handed.

The Fein proved a lifesaver too when taking out a corner cupboard by the
sink as I need to leave the sink in for now for coffee and cleaning up. So
I had to make some fairly awkward cuts in the worktop. Jigsaw with a broken
off blade did the long stretch more quickly, and the Fein did the
impossibly difficult bit at the back.

Looking at the water pipes I need to cut off and disconnect soon, looks like
a Fein job too as there's not enough room to swing even a compact pipe
cutter on some of them... Definitely no room for a hacksaw either.

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying fancy
tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot of DIY.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer and
chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort in
less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?

Cheers

Tim


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On 16 Nov, 22:04, Tim S wrote:
Treated myself to one of these cordless screwdrivers today from the Screwfix
counter in Tunbridge Wells: Yes I know, could have got it cheaper on the
web, but couldn't wait...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/87155/...s-Screwdrivers...

Very impressed that for something that is so small and light it seems to
have some reasonable grunt.

It made kitchen disassembly today very pleasant and much easier to do single
handed.

The Fein proved a lifesaver too when taking out a corner cupboard by the
sink as I need to leave the sink in for now for coffee and cleaning up. So
I had to make some fairly awkward cuts in the worktop. Jigsaw with a broken
off blade did the long stretch more quickly, and the Fein did the
impossibly difficult bit at the back.

Looking at the water pipes I need to cut off and disconnect soon, looks like
a Fein job too as there's not enough room to swing even a compact pipe
cutter on some of them... Definitely no room for a hacksaw either.

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying fancy
tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot of DIY.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer and
chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort in
less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?

Cheers

Tim


It's the "Only £79.99" that sticks in my craw. 9 years ago I bought
out of Safeways a Bosch box that contained a battery drill driver, a
torch and a cycle tyre compressor with two 9.6v batteries and a fast
charger for £40. And all is still going wonderfully.

A pox on all your fancy L-Ion batteries, 24v systems, etc; mine is
light, reliable, works hard ....and no doubt will die tomorrow !!

Rob
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On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:36:29 UTC, robgraham
wrote:

It's the "Only £79.99" that sticks in my craw. 9 years ago I bought
out of Safeways a Bosch box that contained a battery drill driver, a
torch and a cycle tyre compressor with two 9.6v batteries and a fast
charger for £40. And all is still going wonderfully.

A pox on all your fancy L-Ion batteries, 24v systems, etc; mine is
light, reliable, works hard ....and no doubt will die tomorrow !!


I bought one of the little Bosch Li-ion Ixo models just after they came
out, three or four years ago. It doesn't have the grunt for *really*
stiff screws, but it's still been a lifesaver!

Cost me £24.99, and must have been the earliest model. Battery died
after 4 months, so I took it back to B&Q. They replaced it with the
current model, £29.99 with an improved stand, a selection of bits and a
clearly improved battery. The only gripe I have it that it gets rather
warm while charging, and the two charging contacts on the handle are a
bit too warm for comfort if using straight away.

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Default Hmm tools...

Tim S wrote:
Treated myself to one of these cordless screwdrivers today from the
Screwfix counter in Tunbridge Wells: Yes I know, could have got it
cheaper on the web, but couldn't wait...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/87155/...ewdriver-Drill

Very impressed that for something that is so small and light it seems
to have some reasonable grunt.


Blue Bosch - you aint gonna go wrong with that.

It made kitchen disassembly today very pleasant and much easier to do
single handed.

SNIP

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying
fancy tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot
of DIY.


I have to be a bit careful about that, all to easy for me to fall into the
"I need one for the business" trap. I sometimes have to give myself a good
talking to!

I am lucky though, in that I do now have a lot of good quality kit which I
could never justify for DIY use, but when doing stuff for myself it makes
life so easy.

I am of the opinion that the right tools for the job are worth having.
Especially for business use. If something saves me time & aggro its worth
it because I'm more efficient.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the
hammer and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that
I can sort in less than an hour with the right equipment How did
people survive?


My dad used to say "good tools don't cost you money, they save you money".


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



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In article ,
writes:
On 16 Nov,
Tim S wrote:

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer and
chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort in
less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?


I've still got my father's rawlplug jumpimg tool for No. 8 screws. Took some
considerable time (½hour?) per hole in the brick the house was constructed
with. More like 2 seconds with my SDS.


I've got my father's rawlplug cold chisels he used to put 1/2"
and 3/4" pipework through the brick walls when he installed
heating in 1959(?). I last used them probably about 8 years
ago -- I had an SDS drill, but not a big enough bit. Gave up
and bought a bigger bit.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


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robgraham coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 16 Nov, 22:04, Tim S wrote:
Treated myself to one of these cordless screwdrivers today from the
Screwfix counter in Tunbridge Wells: Yes I know, could have got it
cheaper on the web, but couldn't wait...

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/87155/...s-Screwdrivers...

Very impressed that for something that is so small and light it seems to
have some reasonable grunt.

It made kitchen disassembly today very pleasant and much easier to do
single handed.

The Fein proved a lifesaver too when taking out a corner cupboard by the
sink as I need to leave the sink in for now for coffee and cleaning up.
So I had to make some fairly awkward cuts in the worktop. Jigsaw with a
broken off blade did the long stretch more quickly, and the Fein did the
impossibly difficult bit at the back.

Looking at the water pipes I need to cut off and disconnect soon, looks
like a Fein job too as there's not enough room to swing even a compact
pipe cutter on some of them... Definitely no room for a hacksaw either.

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying fancy
tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot of DIY.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer
and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort
in less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?

Cheers

Tim


It's the "Only £79.99" that sticks in my craw.


It is a "blue". I try not to buy cheap for things that are going to get a
lot of use, as this will. Same with my drill (also blue Bosch). Jigsaw sees
occasional use and that's a green Bosch, along with my planer. Single use
stuff comes from ALDI specials or the hire shop ;-

9 years ago I bought
out of Safeways a Bosch box that contained a battery drill driver, a
torch and a cycle tyre compressor with two 9.6v batteries and a fast
charger for £40. And all is still going wonderfully.


My first (only) cordless drill was 20 quid from a Texas (remember them)
closing down sale. That lasted 5 years before I abused it to having a
pronounced wobble in the shaft, then another 5 years being good enough as a
screwdriver and rough drill until the battery died.


A pox on all your fancy L-Ion batteries, 24v systems, etc; mine is
light, reliable, works hard ....and no doubt will die tomorrow !!


:-
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The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:
Treated myself to one of these cordless screwdrivers today from the
Screwfix counter in Tunbridge Wells: Yes I know, could have got it
cheaper on the web, but couldn't wait...


http://www.screwfix.com/prods/87155/...ewdriver-Drill

Very impressed that for something that is so small and light it seems
to have some reasonable grunt.


Blue Bosch - you aint gonna go wrong with that.

It made kitchen disassembly today very pleasant and much easier to do
single handed.

SNIP

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying
fancy tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot
of DIY.


I have to be a bit careful about that, all to easy for me to fall into the
"I need one for the business" trap. I sometimes have to give myself a
good talking to!


It is easy to get carried away. I got a laser level because there was a good
one on ebay, though with all the tiling and cubboard hanging, I can see it
will make things go a lot quicker. But when I look at my spreadsheet, the
budget for tools (budgeted entirely against the house renovation) is a
comparatively small number when I consider how much it would cost to pay
someone to do the job to the way I want it.

I am lucky though, in that I do now have a lot of good quality kit which I
could never justify for DIY use, but when doing stuff for myself it makes
life so easy.

I am of the opinion that the right tools for the job are worth having.
Especially for business use. If something saves me time & aggro its worth
it because I'm more efficient.


That's my opinion. If I don't do something much, I make do, if I've got a
year or two of solid use for it, I'll try to go for something that actually
works.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the
hammer and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that
I can sort in less than an hour with the right equipment How did
people survive?


My dad used to say "good tools don't cost you money, they save you money".


I've been cheap too many times and mostly regretted it. Just end up spending
again to replace it.

Cheers

Tim
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Tim S wrote:

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying fancy
tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot of DIY.


Yup, IIRC I acquired a few decent ones as part of my loft conversion.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer and
chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort in
less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?


By not having to work with Ikea/MFI/Flatpack of your choice furniture
that glibly expects you to wind in 1000 screws during assembly! ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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Bob Eager coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:36:29 UTC, robgraham
wrote:

It's the "Only £79.99" that sticks in my craw. 9 years ago I bought
out of Safeways a Bosch box that contained a battery drill driver, a
torch and a cycle tyre compressor with two 9.6v batteries and a fast
charger for £40. And all is still going wonderfully.

A pox on all your fancy L-Ion batteries, 24v systems, etc; mine is
light, reliable, works hard ....and no doubt will die tomorrow !!


I bought one of the little Bosch Li-ion Ixo models just after they came
out, three or four years ago. It doesn't have the grunt for *really*
stiff screws, but it's still been a lifesaver!

Cost me £24.99, and must have been the earliest model. Battery died
after 4 months, so I took it back to B&Q. They replaced it with the
current model, £29.99 with an improved stand, a selection of bits and a
clearly improved battery. The only gripe I have it that it gets rather
warm while charging, and the two charging contacts on the handle are a
bit too warm for comfort if using straight away.


I was toying with the Ixo as B&Q had some on clearout a while back. But the
one I got in the end was a similar model to the one they use at work and
they love it, so that kind of swayed me. Having the torque limiter was a
major consideration.

Cheers

Tim


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John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying fancy
tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd spot of DIY.


Yup, IIRC I acquired a few decent ones as part of my loft conversion.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer
and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort
in less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?


By not having to work with Ikea/MFI/Flatpack of your choice furniture
that glibly expects you to wind in 1000 screws during assembly! ;-)


Of course, MFI would only supply 993 of the required screws and you wouldn't
notice until the end. And they'd be the really critical ones missing. And
they wouldn't just send you a few in the post - oh no - had to disassemble
it and take the whole lot back to the shop.

At least Ikea have a load of grab bins on the way out full of spare cams
and screws (well, Croydon does anyway)

On an unrelated note, MFI in Tunbridge Wells has just gone to push the
daisies up.

Cheers

Tim
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John Rumm wrote:
Tim S wrote:

This is what I like about doing a big job - no quandry about buying
fancy tools. I'd never justify all these nice things for the odd
spot of DIY.


Yup, IIRC I acquired a few decent ones as part of my loft conversion.

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the
hammer and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this
that I can sort in less than an hour with the right equipment How
did people survive?


By not having to work with Ikea/MFI/Flatpack of your choice furniture
that glibly expects you to wind in 1000 screws during assembly! ;-)


Sore point! Last week I built a 32 sq mtr deck & my Mak autofeed was in for
repair [1], 1100 screws (& 240 coach bolts) put in with impact drivers :-(

[1] long story, not yet resolved.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




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Tim S wrote:

On an unrelated note, MFI in Tunbridge Wells has just gone to push the
daisies up.


I think I was told the whole lot has!

--
Cheers,

John.

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Tim S wrote:

I remember sinking a backbox with my father. A double in the side of a
chimney breast, with a club hammer and chisel and a power drill. Took a day
(HARD bricks). I'll be upset if I can't manage at least 10-15 in a day with
an SDS and sinking cutter, though that remains to be tried!


I can do one in about 5 - 10 mins with ordinary chisels in the SDS... If
the wall is hard then I usually use a 20mm flat chisel to cut round the
periphery, and then a 40m flat one to chop out the waste working first
from the middle toward the ends, before levelling the middle bit. (I
have found its quite easy to develop a technique for planing down the
back of the chase with the wider chisel - allowing it to skip across the
surface removing a shaving of brick, rather than cutting deep.

Not tried one of the sinking tools. I understand they are best with
softer walls.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Tim S wrote:

My dad used to say "good tools don't cost you money, they save you money".


I've been cheap too many times and mostly regretted it. Just end up spending
again to replace it.


Must admit I have never regretted buying any of my decent tools, but
there are a few mid range ones I wish I had bought better versions of.

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John.

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I've been cheap too many times and mostly regretted it. Just end up spending
again to replace it.



But, Tim - was that 'cheap' to save money, or 'cheap' because it was
the first time you had a requirement for that tool and didn't know if
the use was going to be on-going ?

I'm long past my house renovation days - it was still in the 'hammer
and chisel era', relative to the availability of power tools now - but
there is an argument that applies across the board that says it is
better value to buy at low cost to find the uses of an iteml and
replace with good quality later. And extending that further, some
items are better value at the lower end of the market - my chop saw
from Aldi/Lidls has had almost 3 years of continuous use for
constructional work and I wouldn't hesitate to go back and get another
at £25, rather than a named one at anything up to £200.

Rob
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robgraham coughed up some electrons that declared:



I've been cheap too many times and mostly regretted it. Just end up
spending again to replace it.



But, Tim - was that 'cheap' to save money, or 'cheap' because it was
the first time you had a requirement for that tool and didn't know if
the use was going to be on-going ?


Both Rob. Unfortunately in most of the few cases I've experienced, it's
meant the tool was sufficiently crap to not do the job very well at all
leading to the nashing of teeth. The Texas drill was the exception in that
it did perform perfectly well and it couldn't be blamed for me abusing it
to death.

Cheers

Tim
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In article
,
robgraham wrote:
I'm long past my house renovation days - it was still in the 'hammer
and chisel era', relative to the availability of power tools now - but
there is an argument that applies across the board that says it is
better value to buy at low cost to find the uses of an iteml and
replace with good quality later. And extending that further, some
items are better value at the lower end of the market - my chop saw
from Aldi/Lidls has had almost 3 years of continuous use for
constructional work and I wouldn't hesitate to go back and get another
at £25, rather than a named one at anything up to £200.


I've done this in the past - buy a cheap version of a power tool to see
how much use it gets and then replace it with a better one. But these days
there's less difference between decent cheapies - like those sold by Lidl
- and the better makes. Certainly not the same as changing my basic B&D
jigsaw for a pendulum Bosch one.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Tim S wrote:

I remember sinking a backbox with my father. A double in the side of a
chimney breast, with a club hammer and chisel and a power drill. Took a
day
(HARD bricks). I'll be upset if I can't manage at least 10-15 in a day
with
an SDS and sinking cutter, though that remains to be tried!


I can do one in about 5 - 10 mins with ordinary chisels in the SDS... If
the wall is hard then I usually use a 20mm flat chisel to cut round the
periphery, and then a 40m flat one to chop out the waste working first
from the middle toward the ends, before levelling the middle bit. (I have
found its quite easy to develop a technique for planing down the back of
the chase with the wider chisel - allowing it to skip across the surface
removing a shaving of brick, rather than cutting deep.


Its a lot easier if you drill the corners first and a couple of holes in the
center so you know when its level.



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On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:59:42 +0000, Tim S wrote:

coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 16 Nov,
Tim S wrote:

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer
and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can sort
in less than an hour with the right equipment How did people survive?


I've still got my father's rawlplug jumpimg tool for No. 8 screws. Took
some considerable time (½hour?) per hole in the brick the house was
constructed with. More like 2 seconds with my SDS.


I remember those I think - aren't they like a drift or a round chisel, with
a cross cut shank, and banged into the wall to make the hole?


Star drill.
http://www.answers.com/topic/star-dr...gn-engineering
I still have one bought for my first home and used it a couple of
times in the last few years to put a bigger than 15mm hole in a brick
wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?





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Alang coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:59:42 +0000, Tim S wrote:

coughed up some electrons that declared:

On 16 Nov,
Tim S wrote:

I remember the old days when my father would curse, and get the hammer
and chisel out and spend 2 days doing something like this that I can
sort in less than an hour with the right equipment How did people
survive?

I've still got my father's rawlplug jumpimg tool for No. 8 screws. Took
some considerable time (½hour?) per hole in the brick the house was
constructed with. More like 2 seconds with my SDS.


I remember those I think - aren't they like a drift or a round chisel,
with a cross cut shank, and banged into the wall to make the hole?


Star drill.
http://www.answers.com/topic/star-dr...gn-engineering


That's the thing.

I still have one bought for my first home and used it a couple of
times in the last few years to put a bigger than 15mm hole in a brick
wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?


A perfectly good point
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Alang wrote:

wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?


You may find other occasions to use it if it were easier and quicker
though ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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dennis@home wrote:

I can do one in about 5 - 10 mins with ordinary chisels in the SDS...
If the wall is hard then I usually use a 20mm flat chisel to cut round
the periphery, and then a 40m flat one to chop out the waste working
first from the middle toward the ends, before levelling the middle
bit. (I have found its quite easy to develop a technique for planing
down the back of the chase with the wider chisel - allowing it to skip
across the surface removing a shaving of brick, rather than cutting deep.


Its a lot easier if you drill the corners first and a couple of holes in
the center so you know when its level.


I find if you sink the periphery cut to the same depth on the chisel
then you have an all around depth indicated. Pencil line or bit of tape
on the chisel shank can help for occasions where the depth is not equal
to some easily identifiable point on the chisel (like the end of the
flat section etc)

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:23:49 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Alang wrote:

wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?


You may find other occasions to use it if it were easier and quicker
though ;-)



The only time I would have used a SDS hammer drill was when I took our
back wall down to get the car in. I still haven't trimmed the bricks
off at one side.

I have a B&D bought in 1974 with a circular saw attachment and a B&D
BD154R bought some time in the 80s. Does almost everything I need. The
only things I never use are an arc welder bought for one job in 1990
and a router I bought a few years ago. Again for one job and never
used again. For DIY I have a good selection of hand tools and all the
time in the world.
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Default Hmm tools...

Alang coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:23:49 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Alang wrote:

wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?


You may find other occasions to use it if it were easier and quicker
though ;-)



The only time I would have used a SDS hammer drill was when I took our
back wall down to get the car in. I still haven't trimmed the bricks
off at one side.


Heh. All those 'tuits ;-o

For my project, my pair of SDS drills (nice Hitachi 2kg and a rough but dirt
cheap 8kg ALDI) are going to see:

Much tile removal,
Back box sinking (loads)
Finishing chases
Heavy drilling
little bit of core drilling
random small scale concrete breaking

That's the dead-certain list. I expect I'll find a few more uses...

I have a B&D bought in 1974 with a circular saw attachment and a B&D
BD154R bought some time in the 80s. Does almost everything I need. The
only things I never use are an arc welder bought for one job in 1990
and a router I bought a few years ago. Again for one job and never
used again. For DIY I have a good selection of hand tools and all the
time in the world.


I agree - it's in the time. I have until next September to gut and redo the
ground floor of a bungalow, or I'm dead ;- I'll also be doing it full time
without monetary employment from next February so time really does equate
to money. Anything which costs 100-200 quid and turns 20 days of work into
a week has more than paid for itself.

Cheers

Tim


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Default Hmm tools...

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:35:48 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Alang coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:23:49 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Alang wrote:

wall. Took me about 30 minutes with a 2lb hammer to go through two
bricks. Not easy but did I need to buy a special drill for something I
would only do once a decade?

You may find other occasions to use it if it were easier and quicker
though ;-)



The only time I would have used a SDS hammer drill was when I took our
back wall down to get the car in. I still haven't trimmed the bricks
off at one side.


Heh. All those 'tuits ;-o


Just mostly given up. Gets done when have time. Two outside doors
and two internal doors to strip and repaint next spring


For my project, my pair of SDS drills (nice Hitachi 2kg and a rough but dirt
cheap 8kg ALDI) are going to see:

Much tile removal,
Back box sinking (loads)
Finishing chases
Heavy drilling
little bit of core drilling
random small scale concrete breaking


I do very little of that now

That's the dead-certain list. I expect I'll find a few more uses...

I have a B&D bought in 1974 with a circular saw attachment and a B&D
BD154R bought some time in the 80s. Does almost everything I need. The
only things I never use are an arc welder bought for one job in 1990
and a router I bought a few years ago. Again for one job and never
used again. For DIY I have a good selection of hand tools and all the
time in the world.


I agree - it's in the time. I have until next September to gut and redo the
ground floor of a bungalow, or I'm dead ;- I'll also be doing it full time
without monetary employment from next February so time really does equate
to money. Anything which costs 100-200 quid and turns 20 days of work into
a week has more than paid for itself.

Yebbut I'm semi retired. If I drop dead first it wouldn't matter if
the doors got painted or not
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