In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Edgar wrote:
As for (double) Summer time all year - I'm for it. Apart from anything
else it would stop us having to mess about with clocks twice a year.
(Are there any central heating controllers with good radio controlled
clocks?)

Living in London I'd like BST as standard and double in the summer. When
working I get up before most - about 6 to take the dog out - and it's
broad daylight. I'd rather have a longer evening.

BTW, my Viessmann boiler re-set its clock automatically. Easy enough for
anything with a microprocessor. You don't need radio clocks where mains is
available.


The Drayton Digitast remote programable thermostats also re-set themselves.
I have no idea if they are radio clocks though. (The manual does say "set up
in the factory" so I doubt it is radio.

Adam

"The Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:42:40 +0000, Broadback wrote:




Note I am NOT suggesting that Bristol
and Great Yarmouth have different time zones -although their (true) local
time does differ.


Nomad

Like they used to before railway time?

Adam

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:37:47 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

"The Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:42:40 +0000, Broadback wrote:




Note I am NOT suggesting that Bristol
and Great Yarmouth have different time zones -although their (true)
local time does differ.


Nomad

Like they used to before railway time?

Adam

Indeed

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

Who cares about daylight in Aberdeen?

Don't they have northern lights in old Aberdeen ?

Red lights, a-plenty.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:26:02 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

Oh goodie! This is the first time I have felt in close communion with
this government for a long time ...

And Robgraham I am sorry if I upset your expectations but I expect it
wont get any better now cos I am the right side ot a bottle of
carmenere tonight and I am not ms perfect as you have discovered

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

I'd guess that would suit the majority of the population of the UK rather
well.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:21:51 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

I'd guess that would suit the majority of the population of the UK rather
well.

I can't really see any reason for 'changing the clocks'. Why not
simply change the times at which you do outdoorsy-type things like
going to work/school, etc, to suit the available light?

--
Frank Erskine

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:09:36 +0000 Jal wrote :
My point is: however they bugger around with the clocks, SURELY it only
applies to a couple of weeks around October/November and February/March
anyway?!?

I've never understood why the two change dates are not an equal distance
from shortest day.

Listen to national radio here (Australia) and each time check has four
different times!

--
Tony Bryer, 'Software to build on' from Greentram
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

ARWadsworth wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Edgar wrote:
As for (double) Summer time all year - I'm for it. Apart from
anything else it would stop us having to mess about with clocks
twice a year. (Are there any central heating controllers with good
radio controlled clocks?)

Living in London I'd like BST as standard and double in the summer.
When working I get up before most - about 6 to take the dog out - and
it's broad daylight. I'd rather have a longer evening.

BTW, my Viessmann boiler re-set its clock automatically. Easy enough
for anything with a microprocessor. You don't need radio clocks where
mains is available.


The Drayton Digitast remote programable thermostats also re-set
themselves. I have no idea if they are radio clocks though. (The
manual does say "set up in the factory" so I doubt it is radio.

Adam

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.


Edgar

"Edgar" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Edgar wrote:
As for (double) Summer time all year - I'm for it. Apart from
anything else it would stop us having to mess about with clocks
twice a year. (Are there any central heating controllers with good
radio controlled clocks?)

Living in London I'd like BST as standard and double in the summer.
When working I get up before most - about 6 to take the dog out - and
it's broad daylight. I'd rather have a longer evening.

BTW, my Viessmann boiler re-set its clock automatically. Easy enough
for anything with a microprocessor. You don't need radio clocks where
mains is available.


The Drayton Digitast remote programable thermostats also re-set
themselves. I have no idea if they are radio clocks though. (The
manual does say "set up in the factory" so I doubt it is radio.

Adam

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.



Errr, if it's not a radio one the one thing it can't do is deal with the
rules being changed (the rules being built in otherwise). Personally I just
changed the clock on mine - as a DIY group aren't we getting a wee bit
pathetic?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.


Edgar


Ahhh .. that's the point. The radio ones will adjust to an external
signal, but the others that re-set themselves are like the clock in your
PC - it's 'hard-wired' in and will change regardless of any government
on the last Sunday in October and whenever it is in March.

Rob

In article ,
Frank Erskine wrote:
Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now
BST all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

I'd guess that would suit the majority of the population of the UK
rather well.

I can't really see any reason for 'changing the clocks'. Why not
simply change the times at which you do outdoorsy-type things like
going to work/school, etc, to suit the available light?

You can change the times *you* do things - but only changing the clocks
forces others to fall in step.

You could equally say those who don't want more sensible daylight hours
which we'd get in the south through double BST could ignore them.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Edgar wrote:
BTW, my Viessmann boiler re-set its clock automatically. Easy enough
for anything with a microprocessor. You don't need radio clocks where
mains is available.


The Drayton Digitast remote programable thermostats also re-set
themselves. I have no idea if they are radio clocks though. (The
manual does say "set up in the factory" so I doubt it is radio.

Adam

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.

If it's microprocessor controlled it won't cope with a change in the
'rules' except by a software change. A radio controlled one will. Assuming
you can receive that radio signal, which isn't guaranteed.

--
*It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:58:26 +0000, Owain
wrote:

ARWadsworth wrote:
Note I am NOT suggesting that Bristol
and Great Yarmouth have different time zones -although their (true) local
time does differ.
Like they used to before railway time?

Railway time's not that accurate. Station clocks can be up to 1 minute
slow or 3 minutes fast.

Owain


I think he means when railway clocks were set to the same time
throughout the country .

"Rob G" wrote in message
...

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.


Edgar


Ahhh .. that's the point. The radio ones will adjust to an external
signal, but the others that re-set themselves are like the clock in your
PC - it's 'hard-wired' in and will change regardless of any government on
the last Sunday in October and whenever it is in March.


The one in your PC will change when it should, or at least it will under
windows as the rules are downloaded from windows update.


Rob

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Rob G" wrote in message
...

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.


Edgar


Ahhh .. that's the point. The radio ones will adjust to an external
signal, but the others that re-set themselves are like the clock in your
PC - it's 'hard-wired' in and will change regardless of any government on
the last Sunday in October and whenever it is in March.


The one in your PC will change when it should, or at least it will under
windows as the rules are downloaded from windows update.


The 9th EC directive on the issue has confirmed the dates as the last Sunday
in March and the last Sunday in October. Furthermore, the directive now says
this rule is to apply "indefinitely". Since 1981 the dates in all member
states have been governed by such directives. The indefinite nature of the
ruling means it is worthwhile building the rules in to equipment.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/empl...page12528.html


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


Rob

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Rob G" wrote in message
...

Thanks Adam. I think that might be just what I want for the heating. It
doesn't really matter how it works - so long as it can cope with the
government changing the rules.


Edgar


Ahhh .. that's the point. The radio ones will adjust to an external
signal, but the others that re-set themselves are like the clock in your
PC - it's 'hard-wired' in and will change regardless of any government
on the last Sunday in October and whenever it is in March.


The one in your PC will change when it should, or at least it will under
windows as the rules are downloaded from windows update.


The 9th EC directive on the issue has confirmed the dates as the last
Sunday in March and the last Sunday in October. Furthermore, the directive
now says this rule is to apply "indefinitely". Since 1981 the dates in all
member states have been governed by such directives. The indefinite nature
of the ruling means it is worthwhile building the rules in to equipment.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/empl...page12528.html



In the old days, when memory was expensive, Zeller's Congruence was used to
ascertain the day of the week from date mathematically (I still have a
program somewhere - useful for getting the day of your birth etc). I guess
now memory is cheap it's just a look up table.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:26:02 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

If Europe wishes to have the same time zone as the UK then make them
change.


--

"Mike" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:26:02 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

If Europe wishes to have the same time zone as the UK then make them
change.

And make them drive on the left hand side of the road.

Adam

Anna Kettle coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:10:41 -0000, "Ron Lowe"
ronATlowe-famlyDOTmeDOTukSPURIOUS wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
Does anyone else really hate this time of year?

Wanted to finish an outside job today, would have been happy to work
till 6:30 but couldn't see a bloody thing by 5pm.

Makes the day seem so much longer.


Try Aberdeen.
You might think the few hunderd miles further north is negligible in the
global scheme of things, but it makes a significant difference.

Who cares about daylight in Aberdeen? Not me. I agree completely with
TMH and think we in England should stay on summertime and preferably
double summertime all year round

I'd have triple BST. I hate mornings anyway, and who needs light to drive to
the train station, sit in an office then go home...

But having light evenings would be so much more useful...

The only people I can think it would affect are the construction trade and
farmers. Farmers can do what they like when they like, so that just leaves
the issue of a building site starting late and running until 7pm.

:-o

Cheers

Tim

Broadback coughed up some electrons that declared:

....

The use of double Summer
time during the war was to save power in factories and houses, as it
stayed light further into the evening.

There you go - it's a "green" measure.

I'll shut up now.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
Who cares about daylight in Aberdeen? Not me. I agree completely with
TMH and think we in England should stay on summertime and preferably
double summertime all year round

I'd have triple BST. I hate mornings anyway, and who needs light to
drive to the train station, sit in an office then go home...

But having light evenings would be so much more useful...

Yup.

The only people I can think it would affect are the construction trade
and farmers. Farmers can do what they like when they like, so that just
leaves the issue of a building site starting late and running until 7pm.

Building sites - at least in residential areas - don't start until 8. So
apart from a few weeks a year it would make no difference, and it would be
swings and roundabouts anyway when the light gets shorter than the working
day.

As regards farmers they already have to consider the light rather than the
clock.

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:05:57 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:26:02 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Another reason our pathetic government want to alter the clocks is to
have us on the same time as the EEC.

Don't be silly. BST existed long before the 'EEC'.

Indeed, but the government wish to change that to "GBT", which would
mean synchronising us with the EEC, that would give us what is now BST
all Winter and double BST in the Summer.

If Europe wishes to have the same time zone as the UK then make them
change.

And make them drive on the left hand side of the road.

And speak English


--

If people are worried about the little tots going to or
from school in the dark then why does nobody ever
ask why we make them go to school on the winter
solstice - the darkest day of the year? If you want to
avoid tots walking in the dark, the winter break should
be equally spread around the darkest day of the year,
not the nonsense of going to school all the way up to
the darkest day and *beyond*!

Christmas/New Year break: 10th Dec to 2nd Jan.

--
JGH

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
If people are worried about the little tots going to or
from school in the dark then why does nobody ever
ask why we make them go to school on the winter
solstice - the darkest day of the year? If you want to
avoid tots walking in the dark, the winter break should
be equally spread around the darkest day of the year,
not the nonsense of going to school all the way up to
the darkest day and *beyond*!

Christmas/New Year break: 10th Dec to 2nd Jan.

JGH


I wonder how many of us can take that kind of time off work. Or how much it
would cost to have someone look after them for that time. I preferred to
buy my kids reflective coats and leg bands. It was much, much cheaper than
any other option.

BigWallop wrote:
avoid tots walking in the dark, the winter break should
be equally spread around the darkest day of the year,
Christmas/New Year break: 10th Dec to 2nd Jan.
I wonder how many of us can take that kind of time off work. *Or how much it

Ok, 17th Dec to 25th Dec - nine days, just like now,
but the nine darkest days of the year.

--
JGH

"jgharston" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:
avoid tots walking in the dark, the winter break should
be equally spread around the darkest day of the year,
Christmas/New Year break: 10th Dec to 2nd Jan.
I wonder how many of us can take that kind of time off work. Or how much
it

Ok, 17th Dec to 25th Dec - nine days, just like now,
but the nine darkest days of the year.

JGH

I don't think my kids would have liked going back to school on the day after
Christmas. In fact, I don't think I'd like it, going back to work on boxing
day, either.

I'm OK with the way it is now, thankyouverymuch. :-)

Owain wrote:
BigWallop wrote:
Christmas/New Year break: 10th Dec to 2nd Jan.
I wonder how many of us can take that kind of time off work.

People have to arrange childcare during the long summer holidays.

It would save a lot on school heating and lighting to have the long
break through the winter and keep the schools open in summer.

Children are no longer needed to work in the fields in the summer, and
many families go abroad for holidays anyway so having summer holidays in
winter wouldn't mean people missed out on their suntan.

Owain

Chimneys need to be swept more in the winter, as well.
;-)

privacy.net wrote:
It would save a lot on school heating and lighting to have the long
break through the winter and keep the schools open in summer.
It would be more fuel efficient to keep the schools open, rather than having
to heat lots of homes for the extra weeks.

Let's put the little ones in school 50 weeks of the year!
All in the name of fuel efficiency

--
JGH