One of my relatives uses an open fireplace for heating during the winter,
using a mixture of coal and wood. The wood is effectively free. The
fireplace doesn't seem to produce a lot of heat, and I've read that a
woodburning stove might be much more effective, by virtue of drawing less
cold air into the house and sending less heat up the chimney. I have some
questions:

The regularly-swept chimney copes fine with the mixture of wood and coal
burnt in the fireplace, so is it likely be be OK with a wood stove, if
suitably connected? The house is about 20 years old.

The house is in a rural area, but there are a few houses nearby. Is the
exhaust from a woodstove likely to cause more nuisance to them than that
from the fireplace?

An ideas where I can get a cheap stove? I'm hopefully monitoring my local
Freecycle group, but I guess recent energy price rises have made wood stoves
very sought-after.

Any other things worth trying?

Simon wrote:
One of my relatives uses an open fireplace for heating during the winter,
using a mixture of coal and wood. The wood is effectively free. The
fireplace doesn't seem to produce a lot of heat, and I've read that a
woodburning stove might be much more effective, by virtue of drawing less
cold air into the house and sending less heat up the chimney. I have some
questions:

The regularly-swept chimney copes fine with the mixture of wood and coal
burnt in the fireplace, so is it likely be be OK with a wood stove, if
suitably connected? The house is about 20 years old.

The house is in a rural area, but there are a few houses nearby. Is the
exhaust from a woodstove likely to cause more nuisance to them than that
from the fireplace?

An ideas where I can get a cheap stove? I'm hopefully monitoring my local
Freecycle group, but I guess recent energy price rises have made wood stoves
very sought-after.

Any other things worth trying?


Stoves are more efficient really due to the longer path the flue gases
take through the structure, and the more surface area of the structu
our open fires take hours to really heat a room, because there is a mass
of about 15 tonnes of masonry and the like that needs to get warm
first..but they heat the room for about 12 hours after the fire goes out!!

Stoves, drawing less air into the flue, (can) run the flues a lot
hotter. Regulations insist that even a decent existing open fire flue be
lined..and this will cost you the bets part of a grand I am afraid.
Consult your BCO for details..

The Natural Philosopher coughed up some electrons that declared:

Simon wrote:
One of my relatives uses an open fireplace for heating during the winter,
using a mixture of coal and wood. The wood is effectively free. The
fireplace doesn't seem to produce a lot of heat, and I've read that a
woodburning stove might be much more effective, by virtue of drawing less
cold air into the house and sending less heat up the chimney. I have some
questions:

The regularly-swept chimney copes fine with the mixture of wood and coal
burnt in the fireplace, so is it likely be be OK with a wood stove, if
suitably connected? The house is about 20 years old.

The house is in a rural area, but there are a few houses nearby. Is the
exhaust from a woodstove likely to cause more nuisance to them than that
from the fireplace?

An ideas where I can get a cheap stove? I'm hopefully monitoring my local
Freecycle group, but I guess recent energy price rises have made wood
stoves very sought-after.

Any other things worth trying?


Stoves are more efficient really due to the longer path the flue gases
take through the structure, and the more surface area of the structu
our open fires take hours to really heat a room, because there is a mass
of about 15 tonnes of masonry and the like that needs to get warm
first..but they heat the room for about 12 hours after the fire goes out!!

Stoves, drawing less air into the flue, (can) run the flues a lot
hotter. Regulations insist that even a decent existing open fire flue be
lined..and this will cost you the bets part of a grand I am afraid.
Consult your BCO for details..

I can offer some input on this, having discussed the very same issue with
the local stove shop down the end of the village.

His opinion was that, yes, the flue must be lined as you say for the same
reasons. However, he was of the opinion that the lining may not need any
packing (eg vermiculite) around it if the chimney is good and relatively
free from tar. On this premise, I was told that DIY fitting his stainless
steel liner would be straightforward and would cost in the low 100's for 7m
of liner and top + bottom end parts. In short, he said I could get a
reasonable quality medium sized stove and liner+parts for a grand from him
and he was fairly confident the BCO (who he knew in passing) would probably
be OK with it, although of course I should check first, he added, quite
reasonably.

Proof's in the eating of course...

Cheers

Tim

another stove tip
is to have an air intake pipe coming up through the floor or wall
so the fire takes its air from there
not sucking cold air through the cracks under the doors and in the
windows...

i am still investigating this...

--

[george]

my house was built early 60'sOn Sep 17, 9:24*pm, "George \(dicegeorge
\)" wrote:
another stove tip
is to have an air intake pipe coming up through the floor or wall
so the fire takes its air from there
not sucking cold air through the cracks under the doors and in the
windows...

i am still investigating this...

--

* * * * * * * * * *[george]

my house was built early 60's and Bonk n Co reckons it will have a
lined chimney, all that they say I need is a collar bit, (not their
term) to mate the pipe from the stove to the chimney.

Tim S wrote:


I can offer some input on this, having discussed the very same issue
with the local stove shop down the end of the village.

His opinion was that, yes, the flue must be lined as you say for the
same reasons. However, he was of the opinion that the lining may not
need any packing (eg vermiculite) around it if the chimney is good
and relatively free from tar. On this premise, I was told that DIY
fitting his stainless steel liner would be straightforward and would
cost in the low 100's for 7m of liner and top + bottom end parts. In
short, he said I could get a reasonable quality medium sized stove
and liner+parts for a grand from him and he was fairly confident the
BCO (who he knew in passing) would probably be OK with it, although
of course I should check first, he added, quite reasonably.


Do you not have to be registered with CORGI or similar to install a wood
burning stove? I know its not gas, but adequate ventilation & CO2 escape
must be considerations?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:


I can offer some input on this, having discussed the very same issue
with the local stove shop down the end of the village.

His opinion was that, yes, the flue must be lined as you say for the
same reasons. However, he was of the opinion that the lining may not
need any packing (eg vermiculite) around it if the chimney is good
and relatively free from tar. On this premise, I was told that DIY
fitting his stainless steel liner would be straightforward and would
cost in the low 100's for 7m of liner and top + bottom end parts. In
short, he said I could get a reasonable quality medium sized stove
and liner+parts for a grand from him and he was fairly confident the
BCO (who he knew in passing) would probably be OK with it, although
of course I should check first, he added, quite reasonably.


Do you not have to be registered with CORGI or similar to install a wood
burning stove? I know its not gas, but adequate ventilation & CO2 escape
must be considerations?



I don't know in the general case of doing for hire or reward.

But, for your own home, you can certainly do gas plus this will be under a
BNA regarding the flue anyway (same BNA as the 6 million other jobs on the
house!).

So, I think the answer is certainly no in my case; in your case, if you were
doing as a job for someone else, then I'm uncertain. Most of the stove guys
are registered with their professional body, HETAS, so perhaps this body
covers the ventilation requirements associated with a stove fit?

Cheers

Tim

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tim S wrote:

I can offer some input on this, having discussed the very same issue
with the local stove shop down the end of the village.

His opinion was that, yes, the flue must be lined as you say for the
same reasons. However, he was of the opinion that the lining may not
need any packing (eg vermiculite) around it if the chimney is good
and relatively free from tar. On this premise, I was told that DIY
fitting his stainless steel liner would be straightforward and would
cost in the low 100's for 7m of liner and top + bottom end parts. In
short, he said I could get a reasonable quality medium sized stove
and liner+parts for a grand from him and he was fairly confident the
BCO (who he knew in passing) would probably be OK with it, although
of course I should check first, he added, quite reasonably.


Do you not have to be registered with CORGI or similar to install a wood
burning stove? I know its not gas, but adequate ventilation & CO2 escape
must be considerations?



No,but you must pass building regs.

The hazards are les explosive and being gassed, and more fire related.

The kernel of the regulatins are there to ensure that the stove has
adequate ventilation, that the flue goes out of the living space
sensibly without leaks, and that the hottest parts of the stove and flue
are well insulated from suitably fire resistant adjacent materials.

What this boils down to is that flues must be very well sealed, and
prefarably double walled insulated to both keep flue temperatures up
high enough to keep tars out of the flue, and protect any flammable
stuff near the flue from catching fire. If the chimney is already decent
and old enough, you may be allowed to drop a flexible flue down.
Otherwise its double insulated stainless flue. Expensive.

The hearth area should be already good enough, but you need a gap
between the stove doors and anything flammable covered with fireproof
tiles etc, and any wood or plasterwork close to or behind the stove
needs a masterboard type covering on it - essentially asbestos board
without asbestos.

Current wood prices are well below oil/gas prices though, so it is cost
effective.

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


any wood or plasterwork close to or behind the stove
needs a masterboard type covering on it - essentially asbestos board
without asbestos.

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: *(+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


any wood or plasterwork close to or behind the stove
needs a masterboard type covering on it - essentially asbestos board
without asbestos.

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable


It degrades when hot. And exposes the wood behind..if its over masonry,
I think its allowable. Check with BCO. Not sure here. My house is timber
so I may have been thinking too narrowly.

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


any wood or plasterwork close to or behind the stove
needs a masterboard type covering on it - essentially asbestos board
without asbestos.

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable


My immediate reaction to reading that (from a completely uninformed POV)
is that plaster is likely to be formed from plasterboard, which has a
surface layer of paper. Even if skimmed, the heat could make that paper
char.

But another possibility is that, with repeated overheating, plaster will
simply disintegrate. After all, the gypsum is basically made into
plaster by a 'burning' process.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:32:24 +0100, Rod
wrote:

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable

The answer to my own question is that plaster is not flammable, at
least not at the temperatures which will surround a woodburning stove.
Plaster is basically rock and needs to be heated to significant
temperatures before it changes state

Timber and paper on the other hand are flammable and if either of them
is masquerading as plaster then there is a fire risk. In Tudor times,
timber framed smoke bays were sometimes installed in houses instead of
masonry chimney stacks. Not many survive

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: *(+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:32:24 +0100, Rod
wrote:

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable

The answer to my own question is that plaster is not flammable, at
least not at the temperatures which will surround a woodburning stove.
Plaster is basically rock and needs to be heated to significant
temperatures before it changes state


IN a fire, it crumbles. Anyway check with BCO.


Timber and paper on the other hand are flammable and if either of them
is masquerading as plaster then there is a fire risk. In Tudor times,
timber framed smoke bays were sometimes installed in houses instead of
masonry chimney stacks. Not many survive

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: (+44) 01359 230642
Mob: (+44) 07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:32:24 +0100, Rod
wrote:

Wood I can understand, but why does plaster need covering? Its not
flammable

The answer to my own question is that plaster is not flammable, at
least not at the temperatures which will surround a woodburning stove.
Plaster is basically rock and needs to be heated to significant
temperatures before it changes state


If you are thinking lime plaster (and that would be expected!), I don't
know. But for gypsum the temperature is quite low and could easily be
achieved round a wood burner.

"Gypsum rock is converted into gypsum plaster by driving off some of the
chemically combined water. Heating gypsum at 120°C for one hour results
in a hemi-hydrate (CaSO4.1?2H2O) €“ with three quarters of the water
removed. Gypsum hemi-hydrate is also known as Plaster of Paris.
Prolonged heating over several hours results in the formation of
anhydrite with practically none of the chemically combined water left."

http://practicalaction.org/practicalanswers/product_info.php?products_id=305

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:39:04 +0100, Rod
wrote:

If you are thinking lime plaster (and that would be expected!), I don't
know. But for gypsum the temperature is quite low and could easily be
achieved round a wood burner.

Well I suppose I am because I've often seen lime mortar used to line
fireplaces and flues. I just looked up the burn temperature and
900degC is mentioned

Anna

"Gypsum rock is converted into gypsum plaster by driving off some of the
chemically combined water. Heating gypsum at 120°C for one hour results
in a hemi-hydrate (CaSO4.1?2H2O) €“ with three quarters of the water
removed. Gypsum hemi-hydrate is also known as Plaster of Paris.
Prolonged heating over several hours results in the formation of
anhydrite with practically none of the chemically combined water left."

http://practicalaction.org/practicalanswers/product_info.php?products_id=305

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: *(+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:39:04 +0100, Rod
wrote:

If you are thinking lime plaster (and that would be expected!), I don't
know. But for gypsum the temperature is quite low and could easily be
achieved round a wood burner.

Well I suppose I am because I've often seen lime mortar used to line
fireplaces and flues. I just looked up the burn temperature and
900degC is mentioned

Well that's probably the source of the confusion then: I regard lime
plaster as pretty much like cement render, and cement of the portland
type needs to be red hot before it degrades. Although it will, as the
back of my open fires testifies: bricks and mortar have been etched away
by heat. Even the cast iron firebacks that went in after I noticed that
have cracked. Hence the need for 'fireproof cement' when constructing
hearths.


`But plasterboard which is gypsum, on a bonfire, goes crumbly very
rapidly. I assume household ordinary plaster is similar.

Again I don't have absolute date but the builders I worked with
recommended render for the space behind the stove, not plaster.