Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was largely
due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
....but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism - mostly
from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their cars - but
the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers dropping
dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian

Adrian wrote:

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

I'll quite happily support it but I don't think there's a lot of hope.
Ferries are generally an endangered species. Many of the 'neatest'
routes for us (in East Anglia) to mainland Europe have gone. There's
no longer a Felixstowe-Zeebrugge ferry, the Harwich-Hook of Holland
route has been effectively downgraded by the loss of the high speed
ferry. There also used to be a ro-ro service to Poland, that went
quite a while ago.

I think Speedferries has invigorated the short cross channel routes
but any routes that take more than an hour or two are dying out.

--
Chris Green

HI Chris

Nice to hear from you !

wrote:
Adrian wrote:
We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

I'll quite happily support it but I don't think there's a lot of hope.

Ah well - we can but hope !

Ferries are generally an endangered species. Many of the 'neatest'
routes for us (in East Anglia) to mainland Europe have gone. There's
no longer a Felixstowe-Zeebrugge ferry, the Harwich-Hook of Holland
route has been effectively downgraded by the loss of the high speed
ferry. There also used to be a ro-ro service to Poland, that went
quite a while ago.

I think Speedferries has invigorated the short cross channel routes
but any routes that take more than an hour or two are dying out.

Thing is - this particular route is a bit 'special'.
Roads out here in the south-west of Ireland are (by UK standards) pretty
awful - so even quite short distances can take much longer than they
would in the UK.

Because of this, people (tourists, holiday homers and folks visting
relatives) heading for West Cork and Kerry are faced with four or five
hours 'extra' driving time - which is a rotten way to start & end your
holiday. Because of this, people are choosing to just go somewhere else
- which is really casing major problems for the local holiday industry.

Taking the old Swansea-Cork ferry meant that you could travel overnight
(cabin if you wanted) and arrive in Ireland refreshed and ready to enjoy
the rest of your holiday...

There's a bigger issue here, as well. There's someting odd about a ferry
company that sells its only boat before securing a replacement - and
then takes another 18 months to _not_ replace the boat. Whether such a
situation should be allowed to continue..? - given the knock-on effect
on local tourism & industry... I'm not a fan of nationalisation, but
when the failure of a private organisation to deliver has such an impact
then maybe it's the right way to go ??

All e-signatures are appreciated !

Thanks
Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Chris

Nice to hear from you !

wrote:
Adrian wrote:
We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

I'll quite happily support it but I don't think there's a lot of hope.

Ah well - we can but hope !

Ferries are generally an endangered species. Many of the 'neatest'
routes for us (in East Anglia) to mainland Europe have gone. There's
no longer a Felixstowe-Zeebrugge ferry, the Harwich-Hook of Holland
route has been effectively downgraded by the loss of the high speed
ferry. There also used to be a ro-ro service to Poland, that went
quite a while ago.

I think Speedferries has invigorated the short cross channel routes
but any routes that take more than an hour or two are dying out.

Thing is - this particular route is a bit 'special'.
Roads out here in the south-west of Ireland are (by UK standards) pretty
awful - so even quite short distances can take much longer than they would
in the UK.

Because of this, people (tourists, holiday homers and folks visting
relatives) heading for West Cork and Kerry are faced with four or five
hours 'extra' driving time - which is a rotten way to start & end your
holiday. Because of this, people are choosing to just go somewhere else -
which is really casing major problems for the local holiday industry.

Taking the old Swansea-Cork ferry meant that you could travel overnight
(cabin if you wanted) and arrive in Ireland refreshed and ready to enjoy
the rest of your holiday...

There's a bigger issue here, as well. There's someting odd about a ferry
company that sells its only boat before securing a replacement - and then
takes another 18 months to _not_ replace the boat. Whether such a
situation should be allowed to continue..? - given the knock-on effect on
local tourism & industry... I'm not a fan of nationalisation, but when the
failure of a private organisation to deliver has such an impact then maybe
it's the right way to go ??

All e-signatures are appreciated !

Thanks
Adrian


If the ferry is as important as you say it is, I am surprised that the
Irish government has not sought EU help to fund or subsidise a
replacement.

Regular freight traffic is the bread and butter of many ferries and if there
is not enough demand in that area then not much chance

Mind you as I could fly 2 people from Birmingham to Cork for less than the
cost of fuel to Swansea and back never mind the cost of the ferry it would
be cheaper to do this and hire a car in Cork

However I will sign your petition and good luck

Tony

HI All

TMC wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Chris

Nice to hear from you !

wrote:
Adrian wrote:
We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

I'll quite happily support it but I don't think there's a lot of hope.
Ah well - we can but hope !

Ferries are generally an endangered species. Many of the 'neatest'
routes for us (in East Anglia) to mainland Europe have gone. There's
no longer a Felixstowe-Zeebrugge ferry, the Harwich-Hook of Holland
route has been effectively downgraded by the loss of the high speed
ferry. There also used to be a ro-ro service to Poland, that went
quite a while ago.

I think Speedferries has invigorated the short cross channel routes
but any routes that take more than an hour or two are dying out.
Thing is - this particular route is a bit 'special'.
Roads out here in the south-west of Ireland are (by UK standards) pretty
awful - so even quite short distances can take much longer than they would
in the UK.

Because of this, people (tourists, holiday homers and folks visting
relatives) heading for West Cork and Kerry are faced with four or five
hours 'extra' driving time - which is a rotten way to start & end your
holiday. Because of this, people are choosing to just go somewhere else -
which is really casing major problems for the local holiday industry.

Taking the old Swansea-Cork ferry meant that you could travel overnight
(cabin if you wanted) and arrive in Ireland refreshed and ready to enjoy
the rest of your holiday...

There's a bigger issue here, as well. There's someting odd about a ferry
company that sells its only boat before securing a replacement - and then
takes another 18 months to _not_ replace the boat. Whether such a
situation should be allowed to continue..? - given the knock-on effect on
local tourism & industry... I'm not a fan of nationalisation, but when the
failure of a private organisation to deliver has such an impact then maybe
it's the right way to go ??

All e-signatures are appreciated !

Thanks
Adrian


If the ferry is as important as you say it is, I am surprised that the
Irish government has not sought EU help to fund or subsidise a
replacement.

You & me both!
So far, attempts to involve the Government have not really been all that
successful (there's a news item about the most recent Questions &
Answers session on our news page
(http://www.bringbacktheswanseacorkfe...tml/news.html).
When asked to act, the Government seems to find it easiest to hide
behind a 'non-interventionist' policy - which neatly relieves them of
the need to actually _do_ anything...

Apparently EU subsidies were always available, although the Govt claimed
that they weren't....


Regular freight traffic is the bread and butter of many ferries and if there
is not enough demand in that area then not much chance

Looking at the accounts for the last years that the SwanseaCork ferry
ran there was a revenue split of 15% : 85% between freight and passenger
traffic.


Mind you as I could fly 2 people from Birmingham to Cork for less than the
cost of fuel to Swansea and back never mind the cost of the ferry it would
be cheaper to do this and hire a car in Cork

Yes - there's no doubt that the cheap air fares attract lots of
customers. Car hire isn't cheap over here - and many families with small
kids prefer to pack 'everything' in the car and then ferry across.
West Cork's a great place for watersports - and getting a kayak or a
windsurfer on Ryanair isn't easy!

We've seen a dramatic drop in the 'newly wed and the nearly dead' as one
market trader affectionately christened them. These are the retired and
the youngsters - who could take advantage of reduced travel and
accomodation rates in April - May and September - and many of whom liked
to bring their cars across on the ferry. This trade has all but
disappeared - reducing the 7-month tourist season to a 3-month season...


However I will sign your petition and good luck

That'd be great - many thanks...

Adrian

TMC wrote:

If the ferry is as important as you say it is, I am surprised that the
Irish government has not sought EU help to fund or subsidise a
replacement.

Regular freight traffic is the bread and butter of many ferries and if there
is not enough demand in that area then not much chance

My rememebery of the history of the ferry is that like Brittany Ferries
it was a service initially funded by a consortium of farmers with some
government money. I suspect there was also an influence from restaurants
and hotels. I don't think it has ever been a runaway financial success
and there are debates in the Dáil dating back to the late 80s where
money was requested to support the company. There also seems to be a
suggestion that it's not in the Irish Governments interests to subsidise
the Swansea-Cork route since they already support ferries on northern
routes to a much greater extent.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas...811290219.html

Adrian wrote:
Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was largely
due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
....but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism - mostly
from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their cars - but
the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers dropping
dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian

Are you sure you shouldn't be campaigning for a road on top of the Saint
Just to Cork tidal lagoon dam? Might get a bit more support :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 2008-05-21 09:35:13 +0100, Adrian said:

Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was largely
due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
...but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism - mostly
from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their cars - but
the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers dropping
dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian

But one can fly to Cork, and do you really want people from Swansea?

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-21 09:35:13 +0100, Adrian said:

Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was
largely due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
...but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism -
mostly from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their
cars - but the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers
dropping dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on
the problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to
bear on those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian

But one can fly to Cork, and do you really want people from Swansea?

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons for
wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.
Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy on
the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish
as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and this
extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in' myself,
I can vouch for this.

Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London -
specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no longer
runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that he
doesn't even tender for UK-IE business..

There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....

Lots of good reasons....

Regards
Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-21 09:35:13 +0100, Adrian said:

Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was largely
due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
...but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism - mostly
from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their cars - but
the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers dropping
dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian

But one can fly to Cork, and do you really want people from Swansea?

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons for
wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork rather
then Rosslare on the East coast.

Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.
Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing boats
(yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy on the
plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish as
a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and this
extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in' myself, I
can vouch for this.

Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London -
specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no longer
runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that he doesn't
even tender for UK-IE business..

There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....


It was AFAICR expensive though. When I wanted to do the trip ended up on the
Rosslare route as the Cork route was booked up by (well heeled) customers
and Rosslare was cheaper. The drive wasn't too bad (especially early morning
on the outward part, worse on the return as we hit the Cork rush hour). We
had a cabin on the way out for a nominal extra fee, which was nice, but
there was plenty of bench space to lie on on the return.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

HI Bob

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-21 09:35:13 +0100, Adrian said:

Hi All

Not specifically DIY - unless you count the fact that I diy'd the
website g - but I know from comments that many of the folks here
have enjoyed visits or longer stays in the Emerald Isle....

There used to be a Ferry which ran from Swansea to Cork - and saved
a long and inconvenient 4-hour drive from Rosslare for people visiting
the South-West of Ireland.
In fairness, it had a somewhat chequered history - but that was largely
due to the outdated boat and the poor management...
...but at least it was a link.

Back in October 2006 the owners of the boat suddenly sold the boat and
suspended the service... and, despite vague promises & rumours, there
has been no sign of the service resuming since.

Much of the economy of West Cork and Kerry is based on tourism - mostly
from the UK and EU. Many of these people used to bring their cars - but
the more difficult journey has seen visitor numbers dropping
dramatically over the last two years.

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service
reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

Slainte
Adrian
But one can fly to Cork, and do you really want people from Swansea?

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons for
wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork rather
then Rosslare on the East coast.

Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.
Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing boats
(yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy on the
plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish as
a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and this
extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in' myself, I
can vouch for this.

Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London -
specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no longer
runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that he doesn't
even tender for UK-IE business..

There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....


It was AFAICR expensive though. When I wanted to do the trip ended up on the
Rosslare route as the Cork route was booked up by (well heeled) customers
and Rosslare was cheaper. The drive wasn't too bad (especially early morning
on the outward part, worse on the return as we hit the Cork rush hour). We
had a cabin on the way out for a nominal extra fee, which was nice, but
there was plenty of bench space to lie on on the return.

Yes - it was never the cheapest crossing in the world !
However - you needed to factor in the cost of overnight accommodation
(if doing another route) and the convenience of not having to drive the
extra distance to Rosslare.

A point we've made on the website is that we want the link back in place
- not necessarily the same boat (like a newer one please!), or the same
operator, or the same fares structure - if we can just get the link
reinstated with a decent operator then I'm sure the rest will follow....

Many thanks
Adrian

On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to Dublin.



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.


Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy
on the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

Agreed for some purposes. For some purposes I take my car to places
all over Europe. For others I rent a car and take that or rent one
locally. Overall, I am not sure that there is a substantial cost
difference when all factors are taken into account.





and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish
as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and
this extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in'
myself, I can vouch for this.

I know, I was being facetious.



Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London
- specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no
longer runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that
he doesn't even tender for UK-IE business..

Well.... for this one there are several sides to the discussion.
Another is that some people choose to live in SW Ireland because it's
relatively remote, in the same way that they live in the extremities of
the UK such as Cornwall and the Scottish outer isles.

In the latter case there has been the discussion about the subsidy of
the ferry services. There may be a case for that if it's the only
available option.

I don't know the detail of the Swansea/Cork case, but presumably there
is an element of commercial viability?

Commercial ferry operators are not in the business of providing public
services. If there is a shortfall, then there are a few options to do
something about that:

- Attract more business for the ferry.
- Raise fares.
- Arrange subsidy for the ferry operator from central government, local
government, local business.

What are you trying to achieve with your petition? Persuade members of
the Dail to provide a subsidy? I think that they may run into fun
with the EU about that because there are alternative ways to reach the
region, so it becomes a matter of degree.

Maybe it would be worth looking at this on a broader front? i.e. more
of the approaches mentioned above,

Looking at some of the responses on your web site, I can see that there
are quite a few holidaymakers who bemoan the changes. Fine. Perhaps
it would be an idea to ask them if they would be willing to pay an
increased fare to have the ferry operating. If the decreased
journey time, fuel etc. is significant to them, they should have no
problem in paying substantially more. It's very easy to sign a
petition berating loss of a public service. The acid test is will the
petitioners put their hands in their pockets.

It seems to me that if you want to win this one, you will need to
attack it on a broader base.



There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....

That's a weak argument in really making a difference to this.



Lots of good reasons....

Regards
Adrian

HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to Dublin.

OK



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing
in Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of
the holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.

That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5
days rather than 7....



Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy
on the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

Agreed for some purposes. For some purposes I take my car to places
all over Europe. For others I rent a car and take that or rent one
locally. Overall, I am not sure that there is a substantial cost
difference when all factors are taken into account.

True.... there are many sides to the argument






and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish
as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and
this extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in'
myself, I can vouch for this.

I know, I was being facetious.

Sorry - missed the smiley...



Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going
at all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who
rund a small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to
London - specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea
ferry no longer runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling
times) that he doesn't even tender for UK-IE business..

Well.... for this one there are several sides to the discussion.
Another is that some people choose to live in SW Ireland because it's
relatively remote, in the same way that they live in the extremities of
the UK such as Cornwall and the Scottish outer isles.

In the latter case there has been the discussion about the subsidy of
the ferry services. There may be a case for that if it's the only
available option.

I don't know the detail of the Swansea/Cork case, but presumably there
is an element of commercial viability?

Looks like it from the accounts I was reading - mind, accounts can show
anything g


Commercial ferry operators are not in the business of providing public
services. If there is a shortfall, then there are a few options to do
something about that:

- Attract more business for the ferry.
- Raise fares.
- Arrange subsidy for the ferry operator from central government, local
government, local business.

Swansea Cork Ferries seem to have adopted option #4 - sell the boat !
Strange behaviour - especially when you don't have a replacement lined up...


What are you trying to achieve with your petition?

Simply to act as a focus for the discussion and to raise the profile of
the issue. Dublin is a long way from Cork & Kerry - and there's a
feeling that our concerns aren't being heard up there.

Persuade members of
the Dail to provide a subsidy? I think that they may run into fun with
the EU about that because there are alternative ways to reach the
region, so it becomes a matter of degree.

Maybe it would be worth looking at this on a broader front? i.e. more
of the approaches mentioned above,

Looking at some of the responses on your web site, I can see that there
are quite a few holidaymakers who bemoan the changes. Fine. Perhaps
it would be an idea to ask them if they would be willing to pay an
increased fare to have the ferry operating. If the decreased
journey time, fuel etc. is significant to them, they should have no
problem in paying substantially more. It's very easy to sign a
petition berating loss of a public service. The acid test is will the
petitioners put their hands in their pockets.


Agreed - anybody can complain. The e-petition is deliberately 'open' in
its format - because we wanted to get peoples' views on the matter. As
soon as you start putting 'tick boxes' there then it becomes far too
easy to just give a 'tick box' response - which we felt has less value..


It seems to me that if you want to win this one, you will need to attack
it on a broader base.



There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....

That's a weak argument in really making a difference to this.


Maybe - only passing on what the folks have said..

Thanks for your comments - appreciated

Adrian

On 2008-05-22 08:54:07 +0100, Adrian said:

HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to Dublin.

OK



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.

That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5
days rather than 7....

I was thinking two extra days.






Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy
on the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

Agreed for some purposes. For some purposes I take my car to places
all over Europe. For others I rent a car and take that or rent one
locally. Overall, I am not sure that there is a substantial cost
difference when all factors are taken into account.

True.... there are many sides to the argument






and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish
as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and
this extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in'
myself, I can vouch for this.

I know, I was being facetious.

Sorry - missed the smiley...

Well I *was* being facetious.




Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London
- specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no
longer runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that
he doesn't even tender for UK-IE business..

Well.... for this one there are several sides to the discussion.
Another is that some people choose to live in SW Ireland because it's
relatively remote, in the same way that they live in the extremities of
the UK such as Cornwall and the Scottish outer isles.

In the latter case there has been the discussion about the subsidy of
the ferry services. There may be a case for that if it's the only
available option.

I don't know the detail of the Swansea/Cork case, but presumably there
is an element of commercial viability?

Looks like it from the accounts I was reading - mind, accounts can show
anything g

So it was viable or not?




Commercial ferry operators are not in the business of providing public
services. If there is a shortfall, then there are a few options to do
something about that:

- Attract more business for the ferry.
- Raise fares.
- Arrange subsidy for the ferry operator from central government, local
government, local business.

Swansea Cork Ferries seem to have adopted option #4 - sell the boat !
Strange behaviour - especially when you don't have a replacement lined up...

Indeed. These decisions are made by accountants.





What are you trying to achieve with your petition?

Simply to act as a focus for the discussion and to raise the profile of
the issue. Dublin is a long way from Cork & Kerry - and there's a
feeling that our concerns aren't being heard up there.


OK, I thought that that was it. I've done a few of these kinds of
thing in the past, at different levels of impact and scale.

The common themes that I found worked a

- Build momentum quickly. A slow one like an open petition won't work
on its own but may be a precursor to a more concerted effort.

- Build a contact base of movers and shakers and do it widely. Find
professionals such as solicitors and accountants who may be willing to
donate their time or do so at a reduced rate.

- Find the politicians at all levels and identify their hot buttons.
Play to those. Sideline anyone likely to be a detractor.

- Find the media contacts. This is critical.


- Don't be afraid to embarrass politicians and especially public officials.




Persuade members of the Dail to provide a subsidy? I think that they
may run into fun with the EU about that because there are alternative
ways to reach the region, so it becomes a matter of degree.

Maybe it would be worth looking at this on a broader front? i.e. more
of the approaches mentioned above,

Looking at some of the responses on your web site, I can see that there
are quite a few holidaymakers who bemoan the changes. Fine. Perhaps
it would be an idea to ask them if they would be willing to pay an
increased fare to have the ferry operating. If the decreased
journey time, fuel etc. is significant to them, they should have no
problem in paying substantially more. It's very easy to sign a
petition berating loss of a public service. The acid test is will the
petitioners put their hands in their pockets.


Agreed - anybody can complain. The e-petition is deliberately 'open' in
its format - because we wanted to get peoples' views on the matter. As
soon as you start putting 'tick boxes' there then it becomes far too
easy to just give a 'tick box' response - which we felt has less value..

Yes it is, I agree. The point is that I think that if you want to be
serious about this, it's going to be just one of multiple things that
will be needed.




It seems to me that if you want to win this one, you will need to
attack it on a broader base.



There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....

That's a weak argument in really making a difference to this.


Maybe - only passing on what the folks have said..

Thanks for your comments - appreciated

Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons for
wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to
Dublin.

OK



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.

That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow for
the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5 days
rather than 7....

Well, when we used even the Rosslare route, we caught a ferry at AFAICR
2.00am on the Saturday (drive to Swansea and have a snooze in the car from
11.00 to boarding, arrive at 6-7am and then drive to West Cork (Adrigole)
ready to use the accomodation. On return ferry was at 7.30pm ish on the
Saturday so set off in the morning as per usual. Aside from drive home at
the end, all quite easy to do without extending holiday. Bit of driving
across southern Ireland but not bad. Not sure it was 4 hours extra! To plug
the area, if you want a sailing holiday, I can thoroughly recommend:

http://www.westcorksailing.com/


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 08:54:07 +0100, Adrian said:

HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to
Cork rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to
Dublin.

OK



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing
in Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of
the holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For
example, add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It
isn't as though there aren't attractive places to visit on these
routes to and from the ferries.

That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for
5 days rather than 7....

I was thinking two extra days.






Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so
easy on the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

Agreed for some purposes. For some purposes I take my car to
places all over Europe. For others I rent a car and take that or
rent one locally. Overall, I am not sure that there is a
substantial cost difference when all factors are taken into account.

True.... there are many sides to the argument






and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the
Irish as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude
- and this extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a
'blow-in' myself, I can vouch for this.

I know, I was being facetious.

Sorry - missed the smiley...

Well I *was* being facetious.

OK - I believe you g






Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare
(+4 hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not
going at all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a
chap who rund a small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from
West Cork to London - specialising in art & antiques. Because the
Cork Swansea ferry no longer runs - he's now so uncompetitive
(longer travelling times) that he doesn't even tender for UK-IE
business..

Well.... for this one there are several sides to the discussion.
Another is that some people choose to live in SW Ireland because it's
relatively remote, in the same way that they live in the extremities
of the UK such as Cornwall and the Scottish outer isles.

In the latter case there has been the discussion about the subsidy of
the ferry services. There may be a case for that if it's the only
available option.

I don't know the detail of the Swansea/Cork case, but presumably
there is an element of commercial viability?

Looks like it from the accounts I was reading - mind, accounts can
show anything g

So it was viable or not?

Apparently...
though I do suspect that some creative accounting was involved to make
it look less viable....





Commercial ferry operators are not in the business of providing
public services. If there is a shortfall, then there are a few
options to do something about that:

- Attract more business for the ferry.
- Raise fares.
- Arrange subsidy for the ferry operator from central government,
local government, local business.

Swansea Cork Ferries seem to have adopted option #4 - sell the boat !
Strange behaviour - especially when you don't have a replacement lined
up...

Indeed. These decisions are made by accountants.

Hmm.
Rumour has it that the boss of the company used to be a Finance Officer
or somesuch in local government...... draw your own conclusions !

What is a bit odd is that they allegedy sold the boat - but their
accounts don't show them as eve having _owned_ the boat.....

darn good trick if you can do it....

Anybody want to buy London Bridge ?? g





What are you trying to achieve with your petition?

Simply to act as a focus for the discussion and to raise the profile
of the issue. Dublin is a long way from Cork & Kerry - and there's a
feeling that our concerns aren't being heard up there.


OK, I thought that that was it. I've done a few of these kinds of
thing in the past, at different levels of impact and scale.

The common themes that I found worked a

- Build momentum quickly. A slow one like an open petition won't work
on its own but may be a precursor to a more concerted effort.

Yes - we didn't want to go to the media until we'd got sufficient
content / signatures to look credible - but I think we're approaching
that stage now - so we're starting the media 'push'


- Build a contact base of movers and shakers and do it widely. Find
professionals such as solicitors and accountants who may be willing to
donate their time or do so at a reduced rate.

That's a thought. My colleague in the campaign has all the contacts -
I'm new in these here parts....


- Find the politicians at all levels and identify their hot buttons.
Play to those. Sideline anyone likely to be a detractor.

Yes....


- Find the media contacts. This is critical.

Working on that



- Don't be afraid to embarrass politicians and especially public officials.


Now you're talking my language g

My email address is valid - if you don't mind the occasional 'brain
pick' then I'd be grateful if you could email me and I could maybe
ask the odd question from time to time....?

Some things are perhaps best discussed 'in private'...

Thanks
Adrian

Hi Bob

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:
You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons for
wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.
Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to
Dublin.
OK

Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.
So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.
That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow for
the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5 days
rather than 7....

Well, when we used even the Rosslare route, we caught a ferry at AFAICR
2.00am on the Saturday (drive to Swansea and have a snooze in the car from
11.00 to boarding, arrive at 6-7am and then drive to West Cork (Adrigole)
ready to use the accomodation. On return ferry was at 7.30pm ish on the
Saturday so set off in the morning as per usual. Aside from drive home at
the end, all quite easy to do without extending holiday. Bit of driving
across southern Ireland but not bad. Not sure it was 4 hours extra! To plug
the area, if you want a sailing holiday, I can thoroughly recommend:

http://www.westcorksailing.com/

Thanks for the comments.
I'm fairly sure that the westcorksailing people signed our e-petition -
istr that they were commenting on the lack of UK business as a result of
the ferry closure.

I'm not doubting that you can do it - but I know from the comments on
the e-petition

http://www.bringbacktheswanseacorkfe...e-petition.php

and from talking to people running b&b, holiday lest etc - that quite a
few people won't do it.... and will go 'somewhere else'

I heard from a caravan site owner out on the East coast - they did very
well thank you last year 'cos all the UK caravanners came off the boar
at Rosslare, found this site (a couple of miles from the ferry
terminal), put the jacks down & stayed there the whole week....
whereas previously they'd have come into Cork and stayed out this side
of the country...

If you were able to sign the e-petition that'd be great g

Thanks
Adrian

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:
You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.
Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to
Dublin.
OK

Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing
in Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of
the holiday.
So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.
That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5
days rather than 7....

Well, when we used even the Rosslare route, we caught a ferry at AFAICR
2.00am on the Saturday (drive to Swansea and have a snooze in the car
from 11.00 to boarding, arrive at 6-7am and then drive to West Cork
(Adrigole) ready to use the accomodation. On return ferry was at 7.30pm
ish on the Saturday so set off in the morning as per usual. Aside from
drive home at the end, all quite easy to do without extending holiday.
Bit of driving across southern Ireland but not bad. Not sure it was 4
hours extra! To plug the area, if you want a sailing holiday, I can
thoroughly recommend:

http://www.westcorksailing.com/

Thanks for the comments.
I'm fairly sure that the westcorksailing people signed our e-petition -
istr that they were commenting on the lack of UK business as a result of
the ferry closure.

I'm not doubting that you can do it - but I know from the comments on the
e-petition


Well it wouldn't be a show stopper from my point of view and my
circumstances have changed so a return trip is not likely(!) but I have
signed the petition anyway as I wouldn't like to see the nice people at West
Cork Sailing go out of business!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

Some things are perhaps best discussed 'in private'...

But beware that AH doesn't try to dissuade you from re-instating a cut
rate off-season ferry service.

To maintain standards, you should be looking at a full-price,
high-quality service on the route with hydrofoil craft and only one
class of fare - First. Of course, the staff will be resplendant in their
gold-encrusted uniforms, even the engine jockeys, and every whim of
every passenger will be attended to, regardless of cost. Why, they'd
even wipe your arse on request.
Cabins will be redolent of a five-star hotel and the cuisine offered
would only be otherwise encountered in the most exclusive of Paris
hotels. Hot and cold running stewards of both sexes will graciously
offer themselves for free for any recreational activity you wish.

And of course, every ticket purchased will come with a four year
warranty, so that in the event of you ever regretting your trip, you
will get an immediate refund, complete with the most abasing of
management apologies.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

Hi Bob

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:
You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.
Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to
Dublin.
OK
Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing
in Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of
the holiday.
So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.
That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5
days rather than 7....
Well, when we used even the Rosslare route, we caught a ferry at AFAICR
2.00am on the Saturday (drive to Swansea and have a snooze in the car
from 11.00 to boarding, arrive at 6-7am and then drive to West Cork
(Adrigole) ready to use the accomodation. On return ferry was at 7.30pm
ish on the Saturday so set off in the morning as per usual. Aside from
drive home at the end, all quite easy to do without extending holiday.
Bit of driving across southern Ireland but not bad. Not sure it was 4
hours extra! To plug the area, if you want a sailing holiday, I can
thoroughly recommend:

http://www.westcorksailing.com/
Thanks for the comments.
I'm fairly sure that the westcorksailing people signed our e-petition -
istr that they were commenting on the lack of UK business as a result of
the ferry closure.

I'm not doubting that you can do it - but I know from the comments on the
e-petition


Well it wouldn't be a show stopper from my point of view and my
circumstances have changed so a return trip is not likely(!) but I have
signed the petition anyway as I wouldn't like to see the nice people at West
Cork Sailing go out of business!


That's very good of you - thanks !

Adrian

Hi Grim

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

Some things are perhaps best discussed 'in private'...

But beware that AH doesn't try to dissuade you from re-instating a cut
rate off-season ferry service.

To maintain standards, you should be looking at a full-price,
high-quality service on the route with hydrofoil craft and only one
class of fare - First. Of course, the staff will be resplendant in their
gold-encrusted uniforms, even the engine jockeys, and every whim of
every passenger will be attended to, regardless of cost. Why, they'd
even wipe your arse on request.
Cabins will be redolent of a five-star hotel and the cuisine offered
would only be otherwise encountered in the most exclusive of Paris
hotels. Hot and cold running stewards of both sexes will graciously
offer themselves for free for any recreational activity you wish.

And of course, every ticket purchased will come with a four year
warranty, so that in the event of you ever regretting your trip, you
will get an immediate refund, complete with the most abasing of
management apologies.

Oooh - you are awful ! grin

Adrian

wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

We've diy-d a website, with an online e-petition (chance for you to
'diy' something!) which is part of a campaign to focus attention on the
problems caused by the loss of the ferry and bring pressure to bear on
those people who can do something about it to get the service reinstated.

Apologies for the bandwidth - but if you'd care to drop along to

www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com

and add your support to our e-petition then we'd be most grateful !

I'll quite happily support it but I don't think there's a lot of hope.
Ferries are generally an endangered species. Many of the 'neatest'
routes for us (in East Anglia) to mainland Europe have gone. There's
no longer a Felixstowe-Zeebrugge ferry, the Harwich-Hook of Holland
route has been effectively downgraded by the loss of the high speed
ferry. There also used to be a ro-ro service to Poland, that went
quite a while ago.

I think Speedferries has invigorated the short cross channel routes
but any routes that take more than an hour or two are dying out.

The EU has a transport dept that looks at transport for the EU 20, 30, 40
years hence. The aim is super fast intercity trains between all major
cities/centres. One idea is a tunnel between Liverpool and Dublin. As
Holyhead is the halfway point between the two cities that appears a dumb
suggestion and a loooooong expesnive tunnel. But a tunnel from Ireland to
North Wales at the shortest point and then a fast link to Liverpool,
Manchester, Birmingham, London is feasible.

But damming in the Irish Sea to make lagoons to produce all the power for
the UK and Ireland would create at least two land links anyhow and maybe one
to the Isle of Man.

On 2008-05-22 15:35:34 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
said:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Adrian
saying something like:

Some things are perhaps best discussed 'in private'...

But beware that AH doesn't try to dissuade you from re-instating a cut
rate off-season ferry service.

To maintain standards, you should be looking at a full-price,
high-quality service on the route with hydrofoil craft and only one
class of fare - First. Of course, the staff will be resplendant in their
gold-encrusted uniforms, even the engine jockeys, and every whim of
every passenger will be attended to, regardless of cost. Why, they'd
even wipe your arse on request.
Cabins will be redolent of a five-star hotel and the cuisine offered
would only be otherwise encountered in the most exclusive of Paris
hotels. Hot and cold running stewards of both sexes will graciously
offer themselves for free for any recreational activity you wish.

And of course, every ticket purchased will come with a four year
warranty, so that in the event of you ever regretting your trip, you
will get an immediate refund, complete with the most abasing of
management apologies.

Very good.

Actually, it is possible to provide a variety of levels of service and
make good money doing it. The issue is getting the business models
right.

For example, in the Baltic, Silja Line operates a service between
Stockholm and Helsinki. It runs overnight, leaving early evening and
arriving early morning.

For the well heeled traveler, there are cabins equivalent to 4*+ hotel
accommodation, good quality breakfast included etc.

For the business person, there are cabins to 4* level, breakfast and a
fare structure less than the cost of an overnight hotel stay plus a
flight.

For the holidaymaker, there are 3* level shared cabins.

For the party person, there are bars and shops open all night. Fares
are as low as ‚¬12

There are extensive duty free shops which are allowed, even though
Sweden and Finland are both in the EU, because the ship docks briefly
in the Aland Islands, which are technically outside the EU.

The ships are well used because trouble has been taken to provide each
group of customers with what they want.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Hall
saying something like:

snip

The ships are well used because trouble has been taken to provide each
group of customers with what they want.

I wish they'd come and do something in the Irish Sea. Irish Ferries
aren't *too* bad, but Stena are a bunch of pirates.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

On 2008-05-23 20:58:42 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
said:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Andy Hall
saying something like:

snip

The ships are well used because trouble has been taken to provide each
group of customers with what they want.

I wish they'd come and do something in the Irish Sea. Irish Ferries
aren't *too* bad, but Stena are a bunch of pirates.

I really despair.

It's perfectly simple to have a customer service ethic and a range of
products and services to sell them. None of these ships are exactly
small, although the Baltic ones tend to be pretty large - something
like 12 decks.

I've used Brittany Ferries a few times. The standard of the better
cabins is just about acceptable, but the quality of the food is utter
crap.

It's a pity that the Isle of Man is where it is. If it were
somewhere off of Cardigan Bay, it would be possible to have a Mariehamn
arrangement.