On 2008-05-22 08:54:07 +0100, Adrian said:

HI Andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-05-22 07:29:11 +0100, Adrian said:

You're absolutely right - you can fly to Cork.
Many people who have filled in our e-petition have their own reasons
for wanting to bring their own cars / vans etc, and bring them to Cork
rather then Rosslare on the East coast.

Yes, and I've done that on several occasions and for that matter to Dublin.

OK



Parents with young kids prefer the shorter driving distance (landing in
Cork removes 4 - 5 hours from the journey at the start and end of the
holiday.

So one answer there is to factor this into the holiday. For example,
add a couple of extra days and make overnight stops. It isn't as
though there aren't attractive places to visit on these routes to and
from the ferries.

That's fine - but most holiday lets are on a weekly basis - so you'd
either need to take a couple of extra days over your holiday to allow
for the travelling, or persuade the owner to let you the property for 5
days rather than 7....

I was thinking two extra days.






Many people prefer to bring their own bits & pieces - kayaks, rowing
boats (yes - really!), hang-gliders, bicycles, caravans - not so easy
on the plane.
People prefer the familiarity of their own vehicle, rather than an
expensive hired car.

Agreed for some purposes. For some purposes I take my car to places
all over Europe. For others I rent a car and take that or rent one
locally. Overall, I am not sure that there is a substantial cost
difference when all factors are taken into account.

True.... there are many sides to the argument






and so it goes on...

And as to wanting people from Swansea - you'll be aware that the Irish
as a nation are famed for their friendly, hospitable attitude - and
this extends to everybody, regardless of nationality. As a 'blow-in'
myself, I can vouch for this.

I know, I was being facetious.

Sorry - missed the smiley...

Well I *was* being facetious.




Some 15% of the vehicles carried were bring freight, rather than
passengers - so all that freight is now going either via Rosslare (+4
hours), via Dublin (even longer driving), by air - or just not going at
all. There's a story on our 'my stories' section from a chap who rund a
small courier firm - used to do lots of trips from West Cork to London
- specialising in art & antiques. Because the Cork Swansea ferry no
longer runs - he's now so uncompetitive (longer travelling times) that
he doesn't even tender for UK-IE business..

Well.... for this one there are several sides to the discussion.
Another is that some people choose to live in SW Ireland because it's
relatively remote, in the same way that they live in the extremities of
the UK such as Cornwall and the Scottish outer isles.

In the latter case there has been the discussion about the subsidy of
the ferry services. There may be a case for that if it's the only
available option.

I don't know the detail of the Swansea/Cork case, but presumably there
is an element of commercial viability?

Looks like it from the accounts I was reading - mind, accounts can show
anything g

So it was viable or not?




Commercial ferry operators are not in the business of providing public
services. If there is a shortfall, then there are a few options to do
something about that:

- Attract more business for the ferry.
- Raise fares.
- Arrange subsidy for the ferry operator from central government, local
government, local business.

Swansea Cork Ferries seem to have adopted option #4 - sell the boat !
Strange behaviour - especially when you don't have a replacement lined up...

Indeed. These decisions are made by accountants.





What are you trying to achieve with your petition?

Simply to act as a focus for the discussion and to raise the profile of
the issue. Dublin is a long way from Cork & Kerry - and there's a
feeling that our concerns aren't being heard up there.


OK, I thought that that was it. I've done a few of these kinds of
thing in the past, at different levels of impact and scale.

The common themes that I found worked a

- Build momentum quickly. A slow one like an open petition won't work
on its own but may be a precursor to a more concerted effort.

- Build a contact base of movers and shakers and do it widely. Find
professionals such as solicitors and accountants who may be willing to
donate their time or do so at a reduced rate.

- Find the politicians at all levels and identify their hot buttons.
Play to those. Sideline anyone likely to be a detractor.

- Find the media contacts. This is critical.


- Don't be afraid to embarrass politicians and especially public officials.




Persuade members of the Dail to provide a subsidy? I think that they
may run into fun with the EU about that because there are alternative
ways to reach the region, so it becomes a matter of degree.

Maybe it would be worth looking at this on a broader front? i.e. more
of the approaches mentioned above,

Looking at some of the responses on your web site, I can see that there
are quite a few holidaymakers who bemoan the changes. Fine. Perhaps
it would be an idea to ask them if they would be willing to pay an
increased fare to have the ferry operating. If the decreased
journey time, fuel etc. is significant to them, they should have no
problem in paying substantially more. It's very easy to sign a
petition berating loss of a public service. The acid test is will the
petitioners put their hands in their pockets.


Agreed - anybody can complain. The e-petition is deliberately 'open' in
its format - because we wanted to get peoples' views on the matter. As
soon as you start putting 'tick boxes' there then it becomes far too
easy to just give a 'tick box' response - which we felt has less value..

Yes it is, I agree. The point is that I think that if you want to be
serious about this, it's going to be just one of multiple things that
will be needed.




It seems to me that if you want to win this one, you will need to
attack it on a broader base.



There's also the 'green' aspect - which many people have mentioned....

That's a weak argument in really making a difference to this.


Maybe - only passing on what the folks have said..

Thanks for your comments - appreciated

Adrian