"no spam" wrote in message
. net...

Go to your local libariry and ask to see a copy of all the electric and
plumbing codes that cover where you live. You'll probably be handed
several
2-3 inch (10-15 cm) thick ring binders full of codes.

Wrong again. There is one standard which has national applicability
and it is considerably smaller in size than you suggest.

This I doubt. Just the discription of the necessary info on what is
'code' for what can go into an outlet box can take up half a page.

Part of it is probably because we've got one national standard for this sort
of thing, and it's been designed by people who know what they're doing.

But if someone does something stupid (ride w/o a helmet, jump from his
roof onto a trampoline, etc) and gets hurt you, via taxes, will be paying
for his care. Correct?

Yes. And? The proportion of the care budget which goes on supporting such
people is miniscule compared to the vast sums spent on more commonplace
medicine (cancer, hearts, even plain old old age).

My issue is that when someone else is paying for something for you they
feel, and may have, the have the to tell those people how they can use
what's being paid for.

When that "someone else" is "everybody", you hit your internal
contradiction - that you don't like government, as a representative of the
people, telling you what to do, yet you feel that you personally require
that power over others. If this were an episode of Star Trek, at this point
you'd overheat and explode.

clive

"no spam" wrote in message
. net...

Today the system is not used to help people in need but to buy votes.

Um, isn't that the case from top to bottom? It's a fallout of democracy -
the idea being that if the majority decide that things should be made better
for them, then it happens. Except at the moment the majority isn't counted
in terms of numbers of people, but in terms of donations to politicians.

clive

Clive George wrote:
"no spam" wrote in message
. net...

Today the system is not used to help people in need but to buy votes.

Um, isn't that the case from top to bottom? It's a fallout of democracy
- the idea being that if the majority decide that things should be made
better for them, then it happens. Except at the moment the majority
isn't counted in terms of numbers of people, but in terms of donations
to politicians.

The biggest problem today is that to get a message across, you need to
use the media, and that costs money: That money is not forthcoming
without some kind of payback.

Ergo whoever you vote for, you vote for the oligarchy.

Unless political campaigns are severely audited so that anyone can stand
irrespective of a party machine or heavy cash backers and get a certain
amount of cash allocated for so doing, there will be nothing approaching
true democracy in our time.


clive

"no spam" wrote
Never delt with the public much have you? Common sense isn't as common as
most people think. You have people who ride w/o helmets, stick their
hands under running lawn mowers, put ladders in the back of pick up
trucks, get drunk and drive.

In my family, all of whom were engineers, someone has done all of the
above. It's not just gap-toothed hicks from the sticks; common sense can be
completely lacking in someone with an IQ of 170....

"no spam" wrote in message
. net...
Sure it is. Do you agree with the government requiring people to wear
helmets when they ride motorcycles? If you do you are saying that
people are too stupid to take care of themselves

As a survivor of many cases of road rash, I must disagree.
Number One; many folks on bikes crash and wind up living on the
public dollar for life. BTDT. Well, not for =life=!

I've been called hard hearted but why do you and I be forced to pay for
some one else's actions?

So, you'd do away with all social programs, social security, welfare,
disability, food stamps etc?

Not all but a very large percentage of them and limit the amount of time a
person can be on the programs and/or money a person can get in a life
time. Today the system is not used to help people in need but to buy
votes.


There are people in my home town where the third (probably fourth now)
generation of familes are living with or on 'government support'. In some
cases its not their fault. Its the way the system is set up. An example
with fake numbers. If you are out of work and getting $1000/ month from
the government. Then you get a job making $500/month the government cuts
off all of your support. IOW, by getting a job you are losing $500/month
so you are almost forced to keep taking the government money.

So you are a reformer; that is the ohnly thing that makes sense anymore,
as the system is clearly broken. And importing Mexicans at night is not the
answer....

"Clive George" wrote
If this were an episode of Star Trek, at this point
you'd overheat and explode.

"Everything he says is a lie."
"I'm lying!"

Classic! Poof!!!!


clive

"Owain" wrote in message
...
no spam wrote:
Go to your local libariry and ask to see a copy of all the electric and
plumbing codes that cover where you live. You'll probably be handed
several 2-3 inch (10-15 cm) thick ring binders full of codes.
Wrong again. There is one standard which has national applicability
and it is considerably smaller in size than you suggest.
This I doubt. Just the discription of the necessary info on what is
'code' for what can go into an outlet box can take up half a page.

I don't think our "code" even mentions that.

Just checked - my copy of the IEE Wiring Regulations is 266 A4 (11"x8")
pages. Take away the Index and Appendices (which are mostly tables and
graphs for calculating cable sizes and protective devices) and Standard
Forms, and it comes in at 150 pages.

Now, I know the American regs have details of how socket-outlets have to
be spaced every so many inches along kitchen worktops and the like. Our
regs just say:

553-01-07 Where portable equipment is likely to be used, provision shall
be made so that the equipment can be fed from an adjacent and conveniently
accessible socket-outlet taking account of the length of flexible cord
normally fitted to portable appliances and luminaires.

Our Regs also say:

120-01-02 The Regulations ... are not intended to take the place of a
detailed specification or to instruct untrained persons or to provide for
every cicumstance.

So, you blokes have actually suceeded in killing all the lawyers?
Amazing.... It gives us hope, here in the states.

Owain

On 2007-11-06 13:31:29 +0000, "no spam" said:

Go to your local libariry and ask to see a copy of all the electric and
plumbing codes that cover where you live. You'll probably be handed
several
2-3 inch (10-15 cm) thick ring binders full of codes.

Wrong again. There is one standard which has national applicability and
it is considerably smaller in size than you suggest.

This I doubt. Just the discription of the necessary info on what is 'code'
for what can go into an outlet box can take up half a page.

What you doubt is irrelevant.

The relevant standard is British Standard 7671, also known by its more
common name as the IEE Wiring Regulations. It has national
applicability.

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/boo...-reg/21844.cfm




Never delt with the public much have you? Common sense isn't as common as
most people think. You have people who ride w/o helmets, stick their hands
under running lawn mowers, put ladders in the back of pick up trucks, get
drunk and drive.

... and your point is?






Equally, there would be no need to have seatbelt laws either and I know
that many U.S. states have that, so your argument is a bit thin.

Every state in the US as well as the federal government all provide
medical
care for anyone. All you have to do is go into your nearest emerency
room
and they are REQUIRED by law to treat you. This is one of the reasons
given
when they passed the helmet and seatbelt laws.

I don't see the issue. If you choose not to use reasonable safety
measures then Darwin principles should apply anyway.

But it doesn't because the government uses its power to keep these people
alive and breeding.

Sigh.



My issue is that when someone else is paying for something for you they
feel, and may have, the have the to tell those people how they can use
what's being paid for.

This is called taxation.




Another example of differnt mind sets. So you'd have no problem with the
police searching your house because you don't have anything to hide? If
so
what's the difference?

Context, resources and reason to do so.

What does that matter? If the police want to search your home they must
have a reason, why should they be required to tell you and why would you
even mind if you don't have anything to hide? (I'm hoping you can see the
sarcasm in that)

So, you've just created a circular argument.




You may well be right. However, I don't think that it's a big enough
issue to care about that much. If I had my way, there would be a

That's one of the biggest problems out there. Slippery slope, the frog
in
the cooking pot, the camel's nose in the tent or whatever cliché you want
to
use. By the time it reaches a point there is something you do care about
its probably going to be too late.

You have a vivid imagination.

Let's see. First it was a warning on a pack of cigarettes. Then punitive
taxes on them. Moving on to banning smoking in public buildings. Next bans
on smoking in private buildings with public access. Make it no smoking in
open air public spaces (parks, sports arenas, etc). Then a ban on smoking
in multi-family housing. Next a ban on cigarettes in an auto. Now a ban on
smoking in private homes.

Hopefully. I think that is would be a really good idea.


Actually I'm very independent. I'm broadly opposed to socialised
medicine, much of public education and most of the other trappings of
government - essentially because the government should not be in the
delivery business of these, purely in some of the funding of them.

Good for you. Now all you have to do is to try and change the system.
I
wish you luck.

Well... when I'm emperor.....

No need to wait that long. You might just be surprised just how many
people
out there think the same way as you do. All you have to do is get them
organized and voting. You didn't get in this mess overnight and you
ain't
getting out of it that fast either.

I'm not in a mess, thanks.

IOW, you do think that socialized medicine, public education and other
government delivery of businesses are fine.

No I don't. One needs to separate the issues of payment and delivery.


If you really thought they were
a problem you would be trying to change them.

I have plenty of other battles to fight, thanks, and I pick those that
are easier to win and affect me more first.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Just checked - my copy of the IEE Wiring Regulations is 266 A4 (11"x8")
pages. Take away the Index and Appendices (which are mostly tables and
graphs for calculating cable sizes and protective devices) and Standard
Forms, and it comes in at 150 pages.
So, you blokes have actually suceeded in killing all the lawyers?
Amazing.... It gives us hope, here in the states.

The Regs used to be written by Electrical Engineers. Earlier editions were
even shorter and more sensible. Now they're getting "harmonised" and the
politicians (many of whom are lawyers) are getting involved, it's all
going horribly wrong.

It's the same all over the world. Evolution? HAH! DE-volution!!!!!!

Owain

Jim wrote:
"Owain" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Just checked - my copy of the IEE Wiring Regulations is 266 A4 (11"x8")
pages. Take away the Index and Appendices (which are mostly tables and
graphs for calculating cable sizes and protective devices) and Standard
Forms, and it comes in at 150 pages.
So, you blokes have actually suceeded in killing all the lawyers?
Amazing.... It gives us hope, here in the states.
The Regs used to be written by Electrical Engineers. Earlier editions were
even shorter and more sensible. Now they're getting "harmonised" and the
politicians (many of whom are lawyers) are getting involved, it's all
going horribly wrong.

It's the same all over the world. Evolution? HAH! DE-volution!!!!!!

Wasn't that was Moses said when he read the declaration of independence?

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
The Regs used to be written by Electrical Engineers. Earlier editions
were even shorter and more sensible. Now they're getting "harmonised"
and the politicians (many of whom are lawyers) are getting involved, it's
all going horribly wrong.
It's the same all over the world. Evolution? HAH! DE-volution!!!!!!

Oh, don't. If you could see what devolution has given us in the form of
the Scottish Building Standards Agency, you'd weep.

Owain

sigh I would love to return to my ancestral home, but what Scotland
has become is not pretty from what I hear.
It's been said that madness was invented in Britain and exported to the
rest of the world. I think we yanks have taken over that task....

"Jim" wrote in message
t...

sigh I would love to return to my ancestral home, but what Scotland
has become is not pretty from what I hear.

It's still very pretty IME. Of course you're still not allowed to carry
handguns, but then that's hardly a problem if you're in the sort of place
where you don't actually need to bother locking doors.

clive

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
t...

sigh I would love to return to my ancestral home, but what Scotland
has become is not pretty from what I hear.

It's still very pretty IME. Of course you're still not allowed to carry
handguns, but then that's hardly a problem if you're in the sort of place
where you don't actually need to bother locking doors.

I truly and sincerely hope you are right. I have lived for over a decade
w/o locking mine, and it was quite nice. But those days are gone for me at
least.....

clive

Go to your local libariry and ask to see a copy of all the electric and
plumbing codes that cover where you live. You'll probably be handed
several
2-3 inch (10-15 cm) thick ring binders full of codes.

Wrong again. There is one standard which has national applicability
and it is considerably smaller in size than you suggest.

This I doubt. Just the discription of the necessary info on what is
'code' for what can go into an outlet box can take up half a page.

Part of it is probably because we've got one national standard for this
sort of thing, and it's been designed by people who know what they're
doing.

The problem here is everything has to be written in lawyerise. You can't
just say that a sewage line must drop 1" for every 4' but no more than 3"
per 4'. It has to say that the vertical change is required to be not more
than one (1) inch for every fourty eight (48) inches of horizonal distance.
.. .

Read the fine print that comes with a computer program and you get the idea.


But if someone does something stupid (ride w/o a helmet, jump from his
roof onto a trampoline, etc) and gets hurt you, via taxes, will be paying
for his care. Correct?

Yes. And? The proportion of the care budget which goes on supporting such
people is miniscule compared to the vast sums spent on more commonplace
medicine (cancer, hearts, even plain old old age).

My point was you via your taxes are paying for the actions of stupid people
which means the government, to reduce cost makes laws restricting what
actions people can take thereby limiting everyone's rights.


what's being paid for.

When that "someone else" is "everybody", you hit your internal
contradiction - that you don't like government, as a representative of the
people, telling you what to do, yet you feel that you personally require
that power over others. If this were an episode of Star Trek, at this
point you'd overheat and explode.

Huh? In all but a very few cases the government should not have the ability
to force an individual to do anything.

Never delt with the public much have you? Common sense isn't as common
as
most people think. You have people who ride w/o helmets, stick their
hands under running lawn mowers, put ladders in the back of pick up
trucks, get drunk and drive.

In my family, all of whom were engineers, someone has done all of the
above. It's not just gap-toothed hicks from the sticks; common sense can
be completely lacking in someone with an IQ of 170....

Proves my point, common sense isn't.

"no spam" wrote in message
et...

But if someone does something stupid (ride w/o a helmet, jump from his
roof onto a trampoline, etc) and gets hurt you, via taxes, will be
paying for his care. Correct?

Yes. And? The proportion of the care budget which goes on supporting such
people is miniscule compared to the vast sums spent on more commonplace
medicine (cancer, hearts, even plain old old age).

My point was you via your taxes are paying for the actions of stupid
people which means the government, to reduce cost makes laws restricting
what actions people can take thereby limiting everyone's rights.

Except they're not so stupid as to do this. Which nation forces more
cyclists to wear helmets - US or UK? I think you'll find it's not the one
which you claim is restricting what actions people can take.

Over here we're actually quite good at letting people do silly things and
then patching them up - none of this "You appear to have broken your leg.
Have you got insurance?" stuff climbers etc get on your side.

Of course on your side of the pond, you suffer worse restrictions due to
lawyers making it too expensive to do stuff. There's a certain amount of
that over here, but I get the feeling it's not nearly so bad.

what's being paid for.

When that "someone else" is "everybody", you hit your internal
contradiction - that you don't like government, as a representative of
the people, telling you what to do, yet you feel that you personally
require that power over others. If this were an episode of Star Trek, at
this point you'd overheat and explode.

Huh? In all but a very few cases the government should not have the
ability to force an individual to do anything.

Yet you're claiming they should have that ability to reduce costs.

clive

"no spam" wrote in message
. net...

Never delt with the public much have you? Common sense isn't as common
as
most people think. You have people who ride w/o helmets, stick their
hands under running lawn mowers, put ladders in the back of pick up
trucks, get drunk and drive.

In my family, all of whom were engineers, someone has done all of the
above. It's not just gap-toothed hicks from the sticks; common sense can
be completely lacking in someone with an IQ of 170....

Proves my point, common sense isn't.
Which creates the question- why the hell is it called common sense if it
is the most uncommon of things?!

I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the ones
in
the UK.


They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.

nospam wrote:
I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the ones
in
the UK.

They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.


No, they have moved to the White house. Most of the Neocons are ex
communist party.

On 2007-11-12 18:25:05 +0000, "nospam" said:

I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the ones
in
the UK.


They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.

Ah... I knew that they had to have gone somewhere.

I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the
ones in
the UK.

They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.
No, they have moved to the White house. Most of the Neocons are ex
communist party.

I think you need a vacation from smoking rope. I can't think of anything
that has come out of the White house that looks like communism.

I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the
ones
in
the UK.


They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.

Ah... I knew that they had to have gone somewhere.

The professional complainers and 'power to the people' crowd always look for
large groups of people who either want something for nothing or who are just
so stupid they will believe anything. The eco nuts seem to fit the bill on
both count.

In message , nospam
writes
I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the
ones
in
the UK.


They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.

Ah... I knew that they had to have gone somewhere.

The professional complainers and 'power to the people' crowd always look for
large groups of people who either want something for nothing or who are just
so stupid they will believe anything. The eco nuts seem to fit the bill on
both count.


Talking about nuts in various senses of the word, here's another of
those wacky septics in action

You couldn't make it up, could you ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7091904.stm


--
geoff

geoff wrote:

Talking about nuts in various senses of the word, here's another of
those wacky septics in action

You couldn't make it up, could you ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7091904.stm


At least if he'd killed himself he'd qualify for the Darwin Awards

VH.

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:34:40 GMT, "nospam" wrote:


I think you need a vacation from smoking rope. I can't think of anything
that has come out of the White house that looks like communism.


See if you still can make that statement if a Democrat, especially
Clinton, is elected.

On 2007-11-13 21:59:58 +0000, geoff said:

In message , nospam
writes
I know of no US city that has cameras covering areas as large as the
ones
in
the UK.


They may be well hidden.

After all, there are reds under the bed........

Not any more. They have moved into the eco nut groups.

Ah... I knew that they had to have gone somewhere.

The professional complainers and 'power to the people' crowd always look for
large groups of people who either want something for nothing or who are just
so stupid they will believe anything. The eco nuts seem to fit the bill on
both count.


Talking about nuts in various senses of the word, here's another of
those wacky septics in action

You couldn't make it up, could you ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7091904.stm

The funniest bit is that it was a pimp-mobile - Lincoln Continental.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Ron Purvis" wrote in message
.. .

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Ron Purvis" wrote in message
...

"no spam" wrote in message
news
Guns are unique in the above that
their sole PURPOSE is to harm people. They
have no other function.

Totally correct. The are not ornaments.

Can you tell me where to take mine to be fixed? They don't seem
to be working that way.

I can't believe someone would be so stupid as to say that the sole
purpose is to harm people. The person that said that is obviously a
complete moron who has been brainwashed by the liberals.

A guns is designed to kill people.

That is ONE of the things that a gun MAY be designed for.

It is not designed to run your heating system that is for sure . A
guns is designed to kill people.


There are people who desperately need to be shot and killed before they
kill someone else..

"NapalmHeart" wrote
There are people who desperately need to be shot and killed before they
kill someone else..
How this logic escapes some people is one of life's greatest mysteries.
It's as easy as 2+2=4.......
That's why I love my Glock 36.

Where did y'all esacpe frum?

"Jim" wrote in message
et...

"NapalmHeart" wrote
There are people who desperately need to be shot and killed before
they kill someone else..
How this logic escapes some people is one of life's greatest
mysteries. It's as easy as 2+2=4.......
That's why I love my Glock 36.

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday I'm at
work. Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a predator.

Ken


"Jim" wrote in message
et...

"NapalmHeart" wrote
There are people who desperately need to be shot and killed before
they kill someone else..
How this logic escapes some people is one of life's greatest
mysteries. It's as easy as 2+2=4.......
That's why I love my Glock 36.

NapalmHeart wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday I'm at
work. Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a predator.


Is it SO boring u have to turn into into fantasy violence then?

"NapalmHeart" wrote in message
...

"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday I'm at
work.

Or walking the streets, shopping, etc. They are everywhere.

Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a predator.

No thanks. Glock 36, .45ACP.... S&W .357 for backup.

Ken


"Jim" wrote in message
et...

"NapalmHeart" wrote
There are people who desperately need to be shot and killed before they
kill someone else..
How this logic escapes some people is one of life's greatest
mysteries. It's as easy as 2+2=4.......
That's why I love my Glock 36.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
NapalmHeart wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday I'm
at work. Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a
predator.


Is it SO boring u have to turn into into fantasy violence then?

Please be sober when you reply.

In message , NapalmHeart
writes

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
NapalmHeart wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday I'm
at work. Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a
predator.


Is it SO boring u have to turn into into fantasy violence then?

Please be sober when you reply.

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't see
it coming


--
geoff

geoff wrote:


Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming



The eight toilets were out of order in the Mall?

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , NapalmHeart
writes

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
NapalmHeart wrote:
"Solar Flare" wrote in message
.. .
Where did y'all esacpe frum?

I live in the real world. I deal with convicted felons everyday
I'm
at work. Want to be a victim? Be unprepared to deal with a
predator.


Is it SO boring u have to turn into into fantasy violence then?

Please be sober when you reply.

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming


--
geoff

That mall is a "gun free zone."

In message , NapalmHeart
writes

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming


That mall is a "gun free zone."

So he committed TWO offences then

shooting to death of 8 septics AND taking a firearm into a gun free zone

what a naughty boy


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , NapalmHeart
writes

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming


That mall is a "gun free zone."

So he committed TWO offences then

shooting to death of 8 septics AND taking a firearm into a gun free
zone

what a naughty boy

The point is that the "gun free zone" designation doesn't deter those
who don't respect the rule of law. The only people who are deterred are
those who might have made a difference in the outcome.

Ken

--
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave
them." - George Mason


--
geoff

"NapalmHeart" wrote in message
...

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , NapalmHeart
writes

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming


That mall is a "gun free zone."

So he committed TWO offences then

shooting to death of 8 septics AND taking a firearm into a gun free zone

what a naughty boy

The point is that the "gun free zone" designation doesn't deter those who
don't respect the rule of law. The only people who are deterred are those
who might have made a difference in the outcome.

Ken

You can't reason with an ass like geoff.
That mall is not too far from me; too bad there weren't any real men
with real weapons there, just a boy with an AK knockoff.... One of my
230grain .45acp's would have taken his ass straight to hell faster than he
did on his own......


--
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave
them." - George Mason


--
geoff

In message , NapalmHeart
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , NapalmHeart
writes

YeeHa

Another eight septics down and more injured in a shopping mall in
Nebraska

I bet they were prepared to deal with a predator - they just didn't
see it coming


That mall is a "gun free zone."

So he committed TWO offences then

shooting to death of 8 septics AND taking a firearm into a gun free
zone

what a naughty boy

The point is that the "gun free zone" designation doesn't deter those
who don't respect the rule of law.

No **** sherlock

The only people who are deterred are
those who might have made a difference in the outcome.


What a septic with a rifle ?

You'd shoot 50 innocent bystanders before you hit the right man


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geoff