To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

--
Si

In article , Si
$3o&m writes

To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

My own machine only hot fills when the wash temperature is 60deg or
above so it's not something happens very often. If I were to need a hot
wash I'd run the hot tap on the sink by the machine.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:54:14 +0100 someone who may be Si
$3o&m wrote this:-

To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

It depends on usage patterns, system design and how well insulated
the hot water pipes are.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Si $3o&m writes:

To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

You are right in most cases. Indeed, manufacturers have
been removing the hot fill from more recent models.
Because modern detergents need a profiled temperature
wash, the initial fill mustn't be hot, so very little
hot was used anyway and most of the heating is done
inside the machine gradually.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:54:14 +0100 someone who may be Si
$3o&m wrote this:-


To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.


It depends on usage patterns, system design and how well insulated
the hot water pipes are.


Unless the insulations is incredible, for most runs and many usage
patterns it's irrelevant assuming the machine is reasonbly modern - just
use a y adaptor (normally comes with the machine) and link both pipes to
the cold, you probably won't even notice the difference unless you run a
laundry. Our run's not that long, but the water doesn't have time to
run hot before the machine's full.


--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

Si wrote:
To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated
by the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines
use so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

Almost all machines now are cold fill for several reasons; washing
detergents work well at lower temperatures, pipe runs are such that only
cold water in the pipe reaches the machine anyway.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Si $3o&m writes:

To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

You are right in most cases. Indeed, manufacturers have
been removing the hot fill from more recent models.
Because modern detergents need a profiled temperature
wash, the initial fill mustn't be hot, so very little
hot was used anyway and most of the heating is done
inside the machine gradually.

Thanks all. The machine is a 7 year old Bosch so presumably precedes the
changes. I've gone the cold-fill only route.

--
Si

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:40:25 +0100 someone who may be Chris Hodges
wrote this:-

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

It depends on usage patterns, system design and how well insulated
the hot water pipes are.

Unless the insulations is incredible, for most runs and many usage
patterns it's irrelevant assuming the machine is reasonbly modern

Many hot water pipes are not insulated. If they are then water
remains hot for a fair time.

There is also the question of how long a dead leg there is to the
machine and how far the source of hot water is away from the
machine.

It is not as simple a question as some think.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:20:22 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Si wrote:
To clear more space in our kitchen I'm moving the washing machine into
the lean-to. The lean-to already has a cold water supply.

I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated
by the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines
use so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

What do people think?

Almost all machines now are cold fill for several reasons; washing
detergents work well at lower temperatures, pipe runs are such that only
cold water in the pipe reaches the machine anyway.

Also avoids the risk of the fabrics in the load being exposed to water
temperatures beyond their recommended range.

David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:40:25 +0100 someone who may be Chris Hodges
wrote this:-


I've always used hot and cold fill but I'm thinking that because the
gas-heated water comes from the hot water tank upstairs and is heated by
the boiler downstairs, the long pipe runs probably make this an
unnecessary & inefficient option given that modern washing machines use
so little water for the washing cycles anyway.

It depends on usage patterns, system design and how well insulated
the hot water pipes are.


Unless the insulations is incredible, for most runs and many usage
patterns it's irrelevant assuming the machine is reasonbly modern


Many hot water pipes are not insulated. If they are then water
remains hot for a fair time.

There is also the question of how long a dead leg there is to the
machine and how far the source of hot water is away from the
machine.

It is not as simple a question as some think.


I agree, but my point was that there's often a fairly long run and a
fairly long dead leg. In our last house it was well worth starting a
hot wash just after running the washing up water, in many houses,
including this one, that wouldn't help.

--
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To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

Also avoids the risk of the fabrics in the load being exposed to water
temperatures beyond their recommended range.- Hide quoted text -

and my lad's Chemistry A level teacher added another: exposure to hot
water from the start increases the chance that a stain will be fixed
in the fabric. Hence the initial rinse/wash in cold water.

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:21:25 +0100 someone who may be Chris Hodges
wrote this:-

It is not as simple a question as some think.

I agree, but my point was that there's often a fairly long run and a
fairly long dead leg.

There often is, which is a sign of bad design.

Bad design tends to be a feature of houses built by volume builders,
the people who want to sling up the cheapest box for them. These are
the same people who have fought like tigers against energy saving
and renewable energy features being built into buildings.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

I agree, but my point was that there's often a fairly long run and a
fairly long dead leg.


There often is, which is a sign of bad design.

Bad design tends to be a feature of houses built by volume builders,
the people who want to sling up the cheapest box for them. These are
the same people who have fought like tigers against energy saving
and renewable energy features being built into buildings.


Indeed - my pet hate along these lines is the uninsulated runs between
the boiler and cylinder. Apart from the waste of energy we don't really
need more heat sources in the house in summer. In my case they're under
the (8x4) floorboards so I'd have to demolish the upstairs to do
anything about it.

Also grey water heat (and water) recovery would be easy if designed in
to new build.

Chris

--
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