Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was done to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall (it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop the work
before further damage was done.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Sylvain.

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?

Styx

In article ,
"Sylvain VAN DER WALDE" writes:
Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was done to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall (it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop the work
before further damage was done.

You probably need to contact the BCO as a matter of urgency,
and get a structural surveyor to inspect and say if the building
is still safe to occupy (BCO might do this). I don't know what
the procedure is to stop further work until said inspection, and
supervision is in place, but the BCO or someone else here might know.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:
Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work
on their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was
done to mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should
an SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have
been used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall
(it's actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop
the work before further damage was done.

It doesn't matter *how* it was done; your wall's falling down because of
their work (whether done correctly or not) so they should make good and,
in the meantime, you should withdrawn consent to further work on the party
wall.


I didn't say that the wall was falling down.

You haven't answered my question/s, but thanks all the same. I'm a
leaseholder (I own a flat), and I've informed the estate manager; so it's
now in his hands.
But I've reason not to trust him. So I want as much information as I can
get.

Sylvain.

Owain

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Sylvain VAN DER WALDE" writes:
Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work
on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was done
to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should
an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall
(it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop the
work
before further damage was done.

You probably need to contact the BCO as a matter of urgency,
and get a structural surveyor to inspect and say if the building
is still safe to occupy (BCO might do this). I don't know what
the procedure is to stop further work until said inspection, and
supervision is in place, but the BCO or someone else here might know.

As I told Owain, I've informed my estate manager (I own a leasehold flat). I
did get the work stopped, and I hope to see the person in charge of the
works. The damage is not as bad as you appear to believe, and I'm sorry if I
didn't make this quite clear (It's not the sort of damage I can ignore,
though).

P.S. What does BCO stand for? And where/how can they be reached?

Thanks.

Sylvain.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:55:59 +0000, Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

P.S. What does BCO stand for? And where/how can they be reached?

Building Control Officer, at your local council (prolly in the same office
as the Planning Department)

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:04:18 UTC, Styx wrote:

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?

Sylvain probably means an English 'yoof', since he's obviously a
foreigner himself!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Styx" wrote in message news:45e4870e.0@entanet...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?


**** off! Troll!

Sylvain.

Styx

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:04:18 UTC, Styx wrote:

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?

Sylvain probably means an English 'yoof', since he's obviously a
foreigner himself!


It's so easy to be misunderstood. He was a young Polish man (I believe).
What's an English "yoof"?

Sylvain.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:55:59 +0000, Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

P.S. What does BCO stand for? And where/how can they be reached?

Building Control Officer, at your local council (prolly in the same office
as the Planning Department)


Thanks a lot, John. Yours is a useful post, unlike that bum Styx' one.

Sylvain.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:35:00 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:04:18 UTC, Styx wrote:

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?

Sylvain probably means an English 'yoof', since he's obviously a
foreigner himself!


It's so easy to be misunderstood. He was a young Polish man (I believe).
What's an English "yoof"?

(to you...) a young foreigner!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 27 Feb 2007 22:19:20 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:35:00 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


What's an English "yoof"?

(to you...) a young foreigner!

That's racist :-)

--
Frank Erskine

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:
"Styx" wrote in message news:45e4870e.0@entanet...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?


**** off! Troll!

Sylvain.

Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. However, that still
doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible
national status of an individual when that status, for the issue being
discussed, is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what
ethnicity the worker is? Do you think that if he spoke Queen's English
and had Caucasian complexion then his technique wouldn't have mattered?

It's not like you don't have a history of such leading racist comments,
Sylvain, such as your ' "Manners maketh man" A short tale. ' post in
this very group on Jan 2nd 2007. What is it, can you just not help but
judge people on what colour their skin is, or what accent they speak with?

If you think that someone pointing out your racist tendencies makes that
person a troll, then so be it - I'll be a troll. But I'd rather that
than a closet racist.

Styx

Styx wrote:

doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible
national status of an individual when that status, for the issue being
discussed, is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what

Well ISTM that it is relevant. The fact that the worker is non native
and young suggests potentially not only inexperience, but also a
possible lack of familiarity with standard building practices in this
country, and the probably the legislation relating to party walls.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Styx" wrote in message news:45e4cec5.0@entanet...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:
"Styx" wrote in message news:45e4870e.0@entanet...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?


**** off! Troll!

Sylvain.

Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. However, that still
doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible national
status of an individual when that status, for the issue being discussed,
is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what ethnicity the
worker is? Do you think that if he spoke Queen's English and had Caucasian
complexion then his technique wouldn't have mattered?

It's not like you don't have a history of such leading racist comments,
Sylvain, such as your ' "Manners maketh man" A short tale. ' post in this
very group on Jan 2nd 2007. What is it, can you just not help but judge
people on what colour their skin is, or what accent they speak with?

If you think that someone pointing out your racist tendencies makes that
person a troll, then so be it - I'll be a troll. But I'd rather that than
a closet racist.


That's a much more reasonable reply.
First of all, if I really was a racist in this country, I would hide behind
a nickname, as you do. As it is, my name and other details, are genuine.
I'm sure that there is a valid reason for the way I write (I really can't be
bothered to dwell deeply into it), but it has nothing to do with racism.
I'm honoured that you've remembered my earlier posts.

Sylvain.
Styx

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Styx wrote:

doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible
national status of an individual when that status, for the issue being
discussed, is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what

Well ISTM that it is relevant. The fact that the worker is non native and
young suggests potentially not only inexperience, but also a possible lack
of familiarity with standard building practices in this country, and the
probably the legislation relating to party walls.



John, you're very nearly spot on. That is probably almost exactly what I was
thinking. But then I'm an honest man, with a reasonable amount of integrity,
and I don't feel the need to censor myself (as Styx would like me to do).

Sylvain.
..

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Styx wrote:

doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible
national status of an individual when that status, for the issue being
discussed, is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what

Well ISTM that it is relevant. The fact that the worker is non native
and young suggests potentially not only inexperience, but also a
possible lack of familiarity with standard building practices in this
country, and the probably the legislation relating to party walls.




That surely implies that a young, native British citizen would
automatically have an innate understanding of building
regs/practises/legislation. Heck, until I actually purchased a house and
started to do DIY, I didn't have the slightest clue what a "party wall"
was -- they don't exactly teach these things in school.

The fault lies with the foreman (or supervisor) for not detailing how
the work should be done, or the company for not giving the worker the
correct tools or sufficient training (yes, I know, training tends to be
woefully lacking in many jobs these days).

My argument is that any worker could have caused the damage, regardless
of ethnic background, if they had not been given sufficient training or
guidance. Additionally, there's no way of knowing (without seeing his
passport or birth certificate) how long that individual has been living
in the UK, or even if he has UK citizenship or not. He may well be a
naturalised British citizen, or he may have even be born here for all we
know. If that's the case, does it warrant calling him a "foreigner" ?
Should we call everyone who has a different accent to ours a foreigner?


Styx

On Feb 27, 5:31 pm, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:
Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was done to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall (it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop the work
before further damage was done.

I'm not sure of the situation with leasehold flats, but for houses
there would need to be a party wall agreement signed before your
neighbour can do any works affecting the party wall.

Robert

"Robert Laws" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 27, 5:31 pm, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:
Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While doing work
on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage was done
to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_, or should
an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise) have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the wall
(it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop the
work
before further damage was done.

I'm not sure of the situation with leasehold flats, but for houses
there would need to be a party wall agreement signed before your
neighbour can do any works affecting the party wall.


I've looked at the Party Wall Act. It does apply to leasehold flats, but is
not mandatory (there is no penalty as such for not issuing one). However, if
there is a dispute, it will not be in their favour not to have done so.

This morning, the supervisor (foreman) resumed the work and did some more
damage to my wall. I remonstrated with him, and he got the architect to come
and see me. We had a satisfactory chat. I can hear that an SDS drill (I
believe) is now being used. He has assured me that all damage will be put
right.

Sylvain.

Robert

"Sylvain VAN DER WALDE" wrote in
message ...

"Robert Laws" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 27, 5:31 pm, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:
Hello all.

Major work is being carried out in the house next door. While
doing work
on
their wall, to receive a steel girder (I believe), some damage
was done
to
mine. This was caused by _heavy_ hammering.
Now, is it the preferred way to use a hammer on _a party wall_,
or should
an
SDS drill (or something similar, and more gentle and precise)
have been
used.
This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without
immediate
supervision.
Was that wise? I would appreciate comments on this.
Luckily I was in the room when the plaster started coming off the
wall
(it's
actually a little more serious than that), and I was able to stop
the
work
before further damage was done.

I'm not sure of the situation with leasehold flats, but for houses
there would need to be a party wall agreement signed before your
neighbour can do any works affecting the party wall.


I've looked at the Party Wall Act. It does apply to leasehold flats,
but is
not mandatory (there is no penalty as such for not issuing one).
However, if
there is a dispute, it will not be in their favour not to have done
so.

This morning, the supervisor (foreman) resumed the work and did some
more
damage to my wall. I remonstrated with him, and he got the architect
to come
and see me. We had a satisfactory chat. I can hear that an SDS drill
(I
believe) is now being used. He has assured me that all damage will
be put
right.

Sylvain.

Robert







Get him (or preferably the owner of the flat) to sign a note to that
effect - these things have a habit of being conveniently forgotton
when they are no longer on site and have been paid. Make sure you see
some identity giving an address where he can be contacted.

AWEM

On Feb 27, 9:35 pm, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:04:18 UTC, Styx wrote:

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:

This work was being carried out by a young foreigner, without immediate
supervision.

What the hell is "a young foreigner"? You mean someone with a differing
ethnic background to yourself? Or perhaps you had the opportunity to
examine his nationality documents? Is this another of your thinly veiled
racist posts that develops into a thread where you deny being a racist?

Sylvain probably means an English 'yoof', since he's obviously a
foreigner himself!

It's so easy to be misunderstood. He was a young Polish man (I believe).
What's an English "yoof"?

Sylvain.



--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If he had said a cowboy builder, would that have been ok. If the
cowboy had been Polish is that not ok to say so.

Kevin

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Kev wrote:


If he had said a cowboy builder, would that have been ok. If the
cowboy had been Polish is that not ok to say so.

Kevin

I don't see why - as a statement of fact - as long as he wasn't implying
that there is an automatic connection between Polishness and being a cowboy.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Styx" wrote in message news:45e563ae.0@entanet...
John Rumm wrote:
Styx wrote:

doesn't excuse you for having to pointlessly mention the possible
national status of an individual when that status, for the issue being
discussed, is *entirely* irrelevant. What difference does it make what

Well ISTM that it is relevant. The fact that the worker is non native and
young suggests potentially not only inexperience, but also a possible
lack of familiarity with standard building practices in this country, and
the probably the legislation relating to party walls.

Heck, until I actually purchased a house and started to do DIY, I didn't
have the slightest clue what a "party wall" was -- they don't exactly
teach these things in school.

So, you admit to doing DIY. When are we going to get a _meaningful_
contribution from you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never sent a
relevent message to this newsgroup in the last few months, or more. Have
you?

Sylvain.

Styx

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...

"Sylvain VAN DER WALDE" wrote in
message ...

"Robert Laws" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 27, 5:31 pm, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:

snip

I'm not sure of the situation with leasehold flats, but for houses
there would need to be a party wall agreement signed before your
neighbour can do any works affecting the party wall.


I've looked at the Party Wall Act. It does apply to leasehold flats,
but is
not mandatory (there is no penalty as such for not issuing one).
However, if
there is a dispute, it will not be in their favour not to have done
so.

This morning, the supervisor (foreman) resumed the work and did some
more
damage to my wall. I remonstrated with him, and he got the architect
to come
and see me. We had a satisfactory chat. I can hear that an SDS drill
(I
believe) is now being used. He has assured me that all damage will
be put
right.

Sylvain.

Robert

Get him (or preferably the owner of the flat) to sign a note to that
effect - these things have a habit of being conveniently forgotton
when they are no longer on site and have been paid. Make sure you see
some identity giving an address where he can be contacted.

The flat is my own, all paid for.
The architect has given me his contact details, and assured me that he would
get in touch with the estate manager of the house.
So, that should all be alright.

Sylvain.

AWEM