I will have to dig foundations next to a party wall, and I am sure I
will have to dig deeper than the existing foundations. What is the
usual method to ensure that the existing wall and soil under it does
not collapse into my trench ?
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
I will have to dig foundations next to a party wall, and I am sure I
will have to dig deeper than the existing foundations. What is the
usual method to ensure that the existing wall and soil under it does
not collapse into my trench ?

Do it in sections.

sm_jamieson wrote:
I will have to dig foundations next to a party wall, and I am sure I
will have to dig deeper than the existing foundations. What is the
usual method to ensure that the existing wall and soil under it does
not collapse into my trench ?
Simon.

You'll probably be made to underpin it, this is achieved by digging
underneath the footings and pouring concrete into it.
As Chris says, it is almost always done in sections, IE; dig 3 feet, miss 3
feet, dig 3 feet....a few days later you'll have to do the patches
inbetween.
The building control chappy will want to see underneath prior to concreting.

Phil L wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
I will have to dig foundations next to a party wall, and I am sure I
will have to dig deeper than the existing foundations. What is the
usual method to ensure that the existing wall and soil under it does
not collapse into my trench ?
Simon.

You'll probably be made to underpin it, this is achieved by digging
underneath the footings and pouring concrete into it.
As Chris says, it is almost always done in sections, IE; dig 3 feet, miss 3
feet, dig 3 feet....a few days later you'll have to do the patches
inbetween.
The building control chappy will want to see underneath prior to concreting.

He'll also probably want to see you using a vibrator. They're
a bit like that.

Chris Bacon wrote:
Phil L wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
I will have to dig foundations next to a party wall, and I am sure I
will have to dig deeper than the existing foundations. What is the
usual method to ensure that the existing wall and soil under it does
not collapse into my trench ?
Simon.

You'll probably be made to underpin it, this is achieved by digging
underneath the footings and pouring concrete into it.
As Chris says, it is almost always done in sections, IE; dig 3 feet,
miss 3 feet, dig 3 feet....a few days later you'll have to do the
patches inbetween.
The building control chappy will want to see underneath prior to
concreting.

He'll also probably want to see you using a vibrator. They're
a bit like that.

Dirty pervert..

Before you do anything else. Have you served a party wall notice on your
neighbour?

Peter Crosland

Do it quickly.

dg

Peter Crosland wrote:
Before you do anything else. Have you served a party wall notice on your
neighbour?

Peter Crosland

I have indeed. She debated whether it was a party wall (!) and we had
to go and see her friend and a local builder before she was satisfied.
I think she had a bad experience at a previous property.
Simon.

Before you do anything else. Have you served a party wall notice on your
neighbour?

I have indeed. She debated whether it was a party wall (!) and we had
to go and see her friend and a local builder before she was satisfied.
I think she had a bad experience at a previous property.


So what does the party wall surveyor say? He should be able to advise what
is an appropriate way to do the work.

Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:
Before you do anything else. Have you served a party wall notice on your
neighbour?

I have indeed. She debated whether it was a party wall (!) and we had
to go and see her friend and a local builder before she was satisfied.
I think she had a bad experience at a previous property.


So what does the party wall surveyor say? He should be able to advise what
is an appropriate way to do the work.

Peter Crosland

Party wall notice ain't compulsory.
It just says foundations required near party wall etc.
I'm imagining building control will offer sufficient guidance, as a
previous poster suggested
Neighbour hasn't asked for a party wall survey, and I'm not encouraging
it.
Simon.

Before you do anything else. Have you served a party wall notice on
your
neighbour?

I have indeed. She debated whether it was a party wall (!) and we had
to go and see her friend and a local builder before she was satisfied.
I think she had a bad experience at a previous property.


So what does the party wall surveyor say? He should be able to advise
what
is an appropriate way to do the work.


Party wall notice ain't compulsory.

It is.

Details here

http://www.diydata.com/planning/part...y_wall_act.htm

It just says foundations required near party wall etc.

I'm imagining building control will offer sufficient guidance, as a
previous poster suggested

They have no obligation to do so.

Neighbour hasn't asked for a party wall survey, and I'm not encouraging
it.

You are being very short sighted in ignoring the requirement. It coul mean
your property will be difficult to sell in the future.

Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:
Party wall act is compulsory

You are being very short sighted in ignoring the requirement. It coul mean
your property will be difficult to sell in the future.

Peter Crosland

Can anyone else concurr that this in fact the case and Peter is correct
?

If so, I will take this more seriously.

Simon.

Peter Crosland wrote:
Party wall act is compulsory

You are being very short sighted in ignoring the requirement. It coul
mean
your property will be difficult to sell in the future.


Can anyone else concurr that this in fact the case and Peter is correct
?

If so, I will take this more seriously.


The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing, that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them. Without them most solicitors would strongly advise their clients not
to buy. If you think about it then it makes sense because the buyer has more
assurance that the property has been properly built. Personally I would see
it as a positive selling point to be able to tell buyers right from the
start before they even ask. Yes it can be a pain in the backside and cost a
few quid but money well spent. If you don';t have the bits of paper when you
come to sell it can cost you a lot more to regularise things. As far as the
PWA isa concerned some Building Control officers will not sign the job off
without the PWA paperwork.

Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:
Party wall act is compulsory
You are being very short sighted in ignoring the requirement. It coul
mean your property will be difficult to sell in the future.

Can anyone else concurr that this in fact the case and Peter is correct
? If so, I will take this more seriously.

The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing, that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them.

They actually want the vendor to confirm *to the best of his knowledge*.
That's as it should be.

Party wall act is compulsory
You are being very short sighted in ignoring the requirement. It coul
mean your property will be difficult to sell in the future.

Can anyone else concurr that this in fact the case and Peter is correct
? If so, I will take this more seriously.

The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing,
that all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building
Regulations approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and
want sight of them.

They actually want the vendor to confirm *to the best of his knowledge*.
That's as it should be.

Not any more! There was a court case a couple of years back and a vendor had
to pay a large five figure sum to the buyer. He was able to recover this
from his solicitor. Hence solicitors are ultra cautious. A statement "To the
best of his knowledge" is quite worthless.

Peter Crosland

Am I right in thinking that a surveyor in this context can be anyone
and they do not have to be qualified in any fashion?
I knocked a hole in between two maisonettes a few years ago. My
solicitor told me that I would have to get permission from the
mortgagees from the upstairs flats and it would cost thousands. In fact
I served a party wall notice on the 1 recalcitant owner who told me
that i would have to pay for his solicitors. I refused and that was the
end of that.
In fact I used a qualified surveyor who also checked for cracks
upstairs before as I felt that his indemnity insurance was worth
having. I also used a structural engineer and got BC to approve it.
Peace of mind worth 1k you see.
HTH Phil

Am I right in thinking that a surveyor in this context can be anyone
and they do not have to be qualified in any fashion?
I knocked a hole in between two maisonettes a few years ago. My
solicitor told me that I would have to get permission from the
mortgagees from the upstairs flats and it would cost thousands. In fact
I served a party wall notice on the 1 recalcitant owner who told me
that i would have to pay for his solicitors. I refused and that was the
end of that.
In fact I used a qualified surveyor who also checked for cracks
upstairs before as I felt that his indemnity insurance was worth
having. I also used a structural engineer and got BC to approve it.
Peace of mind worth 1k you see.
HTH Phil

Am I right in thinking that a surveyor in this context can be anyone
and they do not have to be qualified in any fashion?


The surveyor has to be acceptable to all parties. It would be very foolish
to use an unqualified person who would also not have any liability
insurance. The person having the work done is resposnsible for the fees of
bith surveyors but not for the other party's solicitor.

Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:

The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing, that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them. Without them most solicitors would strongly advise their clients not
to buy. If you think about it then it makes sense because the buyer has more
assurance that the property has been properly built. Personally I would see
it as a positive selling point to be able to tell buyers right from the
start before they even ask. Yes it can be a pain in the backside and cost a
few quid but money well spent. If you don';t have the bits of paper when you
come to sell it can cost you a lot more to regularise things. As far as the
PWA isa concerned some Building Control officers will not sign the job off
without the PWA paperwork.

Peter Crosland

Right.
What paperwork would I need in the future in order to confirm that
party wall matters have been sorted properly ?
What paperwork would be needed for the BCO to sign off the job ?

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give information of
any use until the foundations are exposed anyway. And what exactly is a
party wall surveyor ?
Surely I would need a structural engineer.

Cheers,
Simon.

Peter Crosland wrote:
Am I right in thinking that a surveyor in this context can be anyone
and they do not have to be qualified in any fashion?


The surveyor has to be acceptable to all parties. It would be very foolish
to use an unqualified person who would also not have any liability
insurance. The person having the work done is resposnsible for the fees of
bith surveyors but not for the other party's solicitor.

Peter Crosland

The party wall info on the diydata link says that a surveyor need only
be appointed if a dispute arises.
Simon.

sm_jamieson wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:

The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing, that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them. Without them most solicitors would strongly advise their clients not
to buy. If you think about it then it makes sense because the buyer has more
assurance that the property has been properly built. Personally I would see
it as a positive selling point to be able to tell buyers right from the
start before they even ask. Yes it can be a pain in the backside and cost a
few quid but money well spent. If you don';t have the bits of paper when you
come to sell it can cost you a lot more to regularise things. As far as the
PWA isa concerned some Building Control officers will not sign the job off
without the PWA paperwork.


Update:
I've spoken to my BCO, he says they are not interested in party wall
notices, it is a civil matter. He said dig a trial hole and they will
advise what action is needed (underpinning etc). Also, since the party
wall notice is done in advance, it cannot contain all the ins and outs
of the precise work done. And no survey is required unless to resolve a
dispute. So I believe what I have done is OK. Just a party wall notice
detailing the basic work, which the neighbour has said they will sign.
Now if they don't, that's another matter.
Cheers,
Simon.

The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing,
that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building
Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them. Without them most solicitors would strongly advise their clients
not
to buy. If you think about it then it makes sense because the buyer has
more
assurance that the property has been properly built. Personally I would
see
it as a positive selling point to be able to tell buyers right from the
start before they even ask. Yes it can be a pain in the backside and cost
a
few quid but money well spent. If you don';t have the bits of paper when
you
come to sell it can cost you a lot more to regularise things. As far as
the
PWA isa concerned some Building Control officers will not sign the job
off
without the PWA paperwork.

Peter Crosland

Right.
What paperwork would I need in the future in order to confirm that
party wall matters have been sorted properly ?
What paperwork would be needed for the BCO to sign off the job ?

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give information of
any use until the foundations are exposed anyway. And what exactly is a
party wall surveyor ?
Surely I would need a structural engineer.


Take a look at the link I provided before. You might also take a look at
this link

http://www.rics.org/Property/Propert...arty_walls.htm

or this one.

http://www.surveyorsreports.co.uk/pa...t_surveyor.htm


You may well require a structural engineers as well as a PWS. Look on it as
a form of insurance because if it does go wrong the costs are likely to be
far more than the fees you paid.

Peter Crosland

sm_jamieson wrote:

SNIP

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give information of
any use until the foundations are exposed anyway. And what exactly is a
party wall surveyor ?

The purpose of the party wall surveyor is to check the current condition of
the party wall *before* any work is done so any damage that you may do can
be noted and rectified later at your expense, but it also prevents your
neighbour claiming that you have caused damage when you haven't.

Also if any work that you have to do on the party wall has benefits
for your neighbour then the surveyor may say that your neighbour has to
cough up some money towards it.

Rob

Peter Crosland wrote:
The reason is that solicitors now get vendors to confirm, in writing,
that
all necessary permissions such as Planning Permission, Building
Regulations
approval , Party Wall notices etc. have been obtained and want sight of
them. Without them most solicitors would strongly advise their clients
not
to buy. If you think about it then it makes sense because the buyer has
more
assurance that the property has been properly built. Personally I would
see
it as a positive selling point to be able to tell buyers right from the
start before they even ask. Yes it can be a pain in the backside and cost
a
few quid but money well spent. If you don';t have the bits of paper when
you
come to sell it can cost you a lot more to regularise things. As far as
the
PWA isa concerned some Building Control officers will not sign the job
off
without the PWA paperwork.

Peter Crosland

Right.
What paperwork would I need in the future in order to confirm that
party wall matters have been sorted properly ?
What paperwork would be needed for the BCO to sign off the job ?

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give information of
any use until the foundations are exposed anyway. And what exactly is a
party wall surveyor ?
Surely I would need a structural engineer.


Take a look at the link I provided before. You might also take a look at
this link

http://www.rics.org/Property/Propert...arty_walls.htm

or this one.

http://www.surveyorsreports.co.uk/pa...t_surveyor.htm


You may well require a structural engineers as well as a PWS. Look on it as
a form of insurance because if it does go wrong the costs are likely to be
far more than the fees you paid.

Peter Crosland

Well, yes some of this may be a good idea so you can prove what damage
you did or did not cause. But there is a distinction between what is
legally required and what is a good idea.
Simon.

Rob Summers wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:

SNIP

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give information of
any use until the foundations are exposed anyway. And what exactly is a
party wall surveyor ?

The purpose of the party wall surveyor is to check the current condition of
the party wall *before* any work is done so any damage that you may do can
be noted and rectified later at your expense, but it also prevents your
neighbour claiming that you have caused damage when you haven't.

Also if any work that you have to do on the party wall has benefits
for your neighbour then the surveyor may say that your neighbour has to
cough up some money towards it.

Rob

Such a survey makes sense, to protect any undue claims from next door.
I might well have one for that reason.
But it still is the case - a party wall surveyor is only legally
required to resolve a dispute, and I will not fail to sell my house in
the future if I do not have one.
Simon.

Regarding a party wall surveyor, he cannot possibly give
information of any use until the foundations are exposed anyway.
And what exactly is a party wall surveyor ?

The purpose of the party wall surveyor is to check the current
condition of the party wall *before* any work is done so any damage
that you may do can be noted and rectified later at your expense,
but it also prevents your neighbour claiming that you have caused
damage when you haven't.

Also if any work that you have to do on the party wall has benefits
for your neighbour then the surveyor may say that your neighbour has
to cough up some money towards it.

Rob

Such a survey makes sense, to protect any undue claims from next door.
I might well have one for that reason.
But it still is the case - a party wall surveyor is only legally
required to resolve a dispute, and I will not fail to sell my house in
the future if I do not have one.

In absolute terms not having a PWS may, and I stress may, not prevent you
selling in future. Having said that any potential buyer's solicitor or
surveyor are probably going to want to see some independent evidence that
the work has been done properly. The sort of problem that is arising ever
more frequently is that this ends up delaying a sale at a critical time. It
really depends on how lucky you feel!


Peter Crosland

Peter Crosland wrote:
In absolute terms not having a PWS may, and I stress may, not prevent you
selling in future. Having said that any potential buyer's solicitor or
surveyor are probably going to want to see some independent evidence that
the work has been done properly. The sort of problem that is arising ever
more frequently is that this ends up delaying a sale at a critical time.

That's because a new horde of pen-pushers know they can make
money out of it, not that "unapproved" work has necessarily
been done badly. Hyenas and vultures.

The PWA is purely to get the work done and ensure that the least amount
of disturbance occurs to the adjacent owner, and gives rights of access
for the building owner to actually get on with the work.

It has no relevence once the work is done, and so is not an issue at
sale time.

A building control certificate is enough to prove adequacy of the work
for sale purposes.

dg