Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

What adhesive should I try next? Superglue? I also have some Golden
Hermatite. Perhaps that would work...

Thank you.

Al Deveron

Al Deveron wrote:
Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

What adhesive should I try next? Superglue? I also have some Golden
Hermatite. Perhaps that would work...

Thank you.

Al Deveron

no adhesive will work*, find another way to do it.

* unless youre willing to remove, empty, steam clean the tank, then
flame the area to create a suitable surface for bonding.


NT

Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

Personally, as such a safety critical item, I would be looking for a new
replacement for the entire tank.

Christian.

On 20 Jul 2006 08:21:51 -0700, wrote:

no adhesive will work*, find another way to do it.

* unless youre willing to remove, empty, steam clean the tank, then
flame the area to create a suitable surface for bonding.

Aha, yes! Bonding with a soldering iron might work... Could be a mess
if it fails though...

Thanks,

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:37:57 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Personally, as such a safety critical item, I would be looking for a new
replacement for the entire tank.

Unfortunately, that could take some time, since parts for this
obsolete motor are hard to find. I'm just looking for a quick fix
that's quick, cheap and reasonably secure.

Al D

Personally, as such a safety critical item, I would be looking for a
new replacement for the entire tank.

Unfortunately, that could take some time, since parts for this
obsolete motor are hard to find. I'm just looking for a quick fix
that's quick, cheap and reasonably secure.

You might be able to find a generic tank and tap a new hole into it (or with
a correctly formed outlet already there). Is the tank some weird and
wonderful shape, or would any old unit do?

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

Personally, as such a safety critical item, I would be looking for a
new replacement for the entire tank.

Unfortunately, that could take some time, since parts for this
obsolete motor are hard to find. I'm just looking for a quick fix
that's quick, cheap and reasonably secure.

You might be able to find a generic tank and tap a new hole into it (or with
a correctly formed outlet already there). Is the tank some weird and
wonderful shape, or would any old unit do?

Christian.

You might be able to reinstate the thread using one of those
whatnots... a metal spiral, forget the name. Or maybe make a ring that
screws in, and the tap screws into that. Etc.

One thing you dont want is fuel pouring out, so I'd make it tough and
secure.


NT

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:52:40 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

You might be able to find a generic tank and tap a new hole into it (or with
a correctly formed outlet already there). Is the tank some weird and
wonderful shape, or would any old unit do?

The tank is a rather specific shape. It has to fit inside the outboard
motor's upper alloy casing, and the cap has to coincide with a hole in
the alloy casing.

But thank you for the suggestion.

Realistically, I'm just looking for the best way to use the current
tank. Surely some kind of goo or adhesive will form a leakproof joint
between the stripped petcock and the stripped hole in the tank...

Al D

On 20 Jul 2006 09:02:37 -0700, wrote:

You might be able to reinstate the thread using one of those
whatnots... a metal spiral, forget the name. Or maybe make a ring that
screws in, and the tap screws into that. Etc.

Thanks; that might be the ideal solution, but it's more tricky and
time-consuming than I want to get involved with.

One thing you dont want is fuel pouring out, so I'd make it tough and
secure.

Yes, within reason. I did use Araldite previously. It got me out of
trouble, but, of course, there was no real adhesion there, so it was
only hanging in there on a wing and a prayer.

I figure there must be something more suitable than Araldite...

Al D

I would try a large diameter, short brass nut, washers and bolt into a tight
fitting hole with a "suitable-for-fuel rubber" washer each side - then drill
and tap the brass bolt and screw in the (or a new) petrol tap.
This assumes you can get a nut into the right position and it will self hold
whilst tightening up ( use loctite ).

If not, and this assumes the plastic is thick enough, drill and tap a larger
hole and either fit a petrol tap in direct, or a bolt which you can then
drill and tap perhaps with a washer on the outside to strain relieve a bit.

Or as the others suggest - get a new or s/hand one but then thats not
D-I-Y...

Also depends on "what if it leaks" - a lawn mower/ outboard motor I wouldn't
worry so much, but if it leaks somewhere where vapours could collect, go the
new route.

Nick

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

You might be able to reinstate the thread using one of those
whatnots... a metal spiral, forget the name. Or maybe make a ring that
screws in, and the tap screws into that. Etc.
snip

============================
'Helicoil' - I'm not sure if they work in plastic but worth asking from a
stockist.

Cic.

wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

You might be able to reinstate the thread using one of those
whatnots... a metal spiral, forget the name. Or maybe make a ring that
screws in, and the tap screws into that. Etc.
snip

============================
'Helicoil' - I'm not sure if they work in plastic but worth asking from a
stockist.

Cic.



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"Nick" wrote in message
...
I would try a large diameter, short brass nut, washers and bolt into a
tight
fitting hole with a "suitable-for-fuel rubber" washer each side - then
drill
and tap the brass bolt and screw in the (or a new) petrol tap.
This assumes you can get a nut into the right position and it will self
hold
whilst tightening up ( use loctite ).

If not, and this assumes the plastic is thick enough, drill and tap a
larger
hole and either fit a petrol tap in direct, or a bolt which you can then
drill and tap perhaps with a washer on the outside to strain relieve a
bit.

Or as the others suggest - get a new or s/hand one but then thats not
D-I-Y...

Also depends on "what if it leaks" - a lawn mower/ outboard motor I
wouldn't
worry so much, but if it leaks somewhere where vapours could collect, go
the
new route.

Nick


=======================
This might be a possible starting point:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18109&ts=13268

It depends on what access there is through the filler cap.

Cic.



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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:31:50 GMT, "Nick" wrote:

I would try a large diameter, short brass nut, washers and bolt into a tight
fitting hole with a "suitable-for-fuel rubber" washer each side - then drill
and tap the brass bolt and screw in the (or a new) petrol tap.

Unfortunately, the thread is stripped off the plastic petrol tap too.
But tapping new threads is more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for
the suggestion, though. I really just need a quick fix until such time
as I can obtain a second, identical motor to butcher for spares.

Also depends on "what if it leaks" - a lawn mower/ outboard motor I wouldn't
worry so much, but if it leaks somewhere where vapours could collect, go the
new route.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if it started to leak a drop or
two every 30 minutes ro so, since it is an outboard motor hanging off
the back of a boat.

However, I reckon it should be possible to jerry-rig it so that it
doesn't leak at all. Last time, I fixed it in with Araldite. It didn't
leak at all - but it wasn't very strong either. The tap pulled out too
easily. I reckon there must be some adhesive - or other goo - that
will give some adhesion and be impervious to 2-stroke mix. Red
Hermatite? Golden Hermatite? Superglue? Uhu? The fit is still pretty
snug despite the lack of threads.

BTW, I'm not at all sure what kind of plastics the tank and petcock
are. They may well be something other than polypropylene. Nylon,
possibly. One thing's for su they look like the sort of plastic
that's not easy to stick together!

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:05:29 +0100, Al Deveron
wrote:

Update:
I just tried sticking it in with Superglue. It formed an incredibly
strong joint (much stronger than Araldite did). I just hope that the
2-stroke fuel won't weaken it.

Al D

The message
from Al Deveron contains these words:

Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor.

I've a feeling they're polyethelene, but neither is amenable to gluing.
You can weld them with hot air and a filler but it's not easy.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Al Deveron was thinking very hard :
Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

What adhesive should I try next? Superglue? I also have some Golden
Hermatite. Perhaps that would work...

None will be effective I fancy.

You said late that the threads were damaged on both items. Could you
not take the tap along to a machinists shop and ask them to clean the
threads on the tap up or even tap it down to a slightly smaller thread
size?

Then ask them to make up a brass fitting - like a threaded nut with a
large flat shoulder on it. Cut out the treaded portion in the tank then
fit the above with a soft washer impervious to fuel. In other words
trap the tank firmly between the two parts.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

wrote :
You might be able to reinstate the thread using one of those
whatnots... a metal spiral, forget the name. Or maybe make a ring that
screws in, and the tap screws into that. Etc.

Helicoil?

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Al Deveron wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:37:57 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

Personally, as such a safety critical item, I would be looking for a new
replacement for the entire tank.

Unfortunately, that could take some time, since parts for this
obsolete motor are hard to find. I'm just looking for a quick fix
that's quick, cheap and reasonably secure.

Al D

HOt glue might work.
Almost nothing sticks to polyolefins.

Al Deveron wrote:

I figure there must be something more suitable than Araldite...

I figure you dont want to hear it. You could save yourself a lot of
wasted time experimenting.


NT

Al Deveron wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:05:29 +0100, Al Deveron
wrote:

Update:
I just tried sticking it in with Superglue. It formed an incredibly
strong joint (much stronger than Araldite did). I just hope that the
2-stroke fuel won't weaken it.

Al D

Not unless it containsn nitromethane or acetone.

However CA comes in polythene bottles and its easy to break the dried
stuff away from it.


I have also used "liquid metal" to bond to polythene...it doesn't really
stick properly, but roughed up a bit first and forming a large fillet,
it ain't bad.

HOt glue might work.
Almost nothing sticks to polyolefins.

It won't. There is a Henkel / Loctite which will stick polyolefins when used
with a primer (Google). Although personally I would go down the "nsert with
a flange inside"route.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:02:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

HOt glue might work.

Thanks for the idea. That's something I hadn't thought of. Good idea
for "plan B" if the superglue fails.

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:05:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I just tried sticking it in with Superglue. It formed an incredibly
strong joint (much stronger than Araldite did). I just hope that the
2-stroke fuel won't weaken it.

Al D

Not unless it containsn nitromethane or acetone.

I'm not sure what superglue contains apart from cynoacrylate...

However CA comes in polythene bottles and its easy to break the dried
stuff away from it.

I don't really know which plastic the petcock and the fuel tank are
made of. Anyway, the superglue made teh two stick together like s***
to a blanket. Touch wood, my problems are solved!

Cheers,

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:06:53 +0100, Al Deveron
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:05:29 +0100, Al Deveron
wrote:

Update:
I just tried sticking it in with Superglue. It formed an incredibly
strong joint (much stronger than Araldite did). I just hope that the
2-stroke fuel won't weaken it.

If it is PP and superglue comes unstuck, have a look at this guide:

http://www.loctite.us/int_henkel/loctite_us/index.cfm?&pageid=151&layout=2

It recommends Loctite 770 as an activator, which *appears to be*
basically n-heptane:

http://www.bmed.mcgill.ca/dept_resources/machine_shop/miscellaneous/msds/Loctite%20770%20Primer%20Prism.pdf

Some superglue activators use it so it might be worth trying one out
on something made of PP, eg some ice cream tubs.

Another approach...

If the tap and tank *are* the same plastic and will soften and melt
with heat, another way to go could be to wind a coil of resistance
wire round the tap, put it in the tank and put a current through the
wire so it heats up and fuses the tap to the tank well. Once the
plastic is melted twisting the tap a little back and forth may help
this.

cheers,
Pete.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:05:29 +0100, Al Deveron wrote:

Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank

Not a hope of gluing it, or of hot welding it.

Your best option is a screwed, flanged connector with a large flange on
each side and a wipe of petrol-proof elastic sealing compound on either
side (Oyltite is probably the best).

Or else replace it with a new tank, from a different engine if needs be.

"Al Deveron" wrote in message
...

Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

What adhesive should I try next? Superglue? I also have some Golden
Hermatite. Perhaps that would work...

Loctite Plastix is supposed to bond all plastics. I tried it on a very small
part, but that didn't work. It might be OK on a relatively large item. Of
course, 100% cleanliness is a must.

Sylvain.

Thank you.

Al Deveron

"Al Deveron" wrote in message
...

Advice please... I need to stick a plastic fuel tap into the hole in
the bottom of a plastic 2-stroke fuel tank (the tank looks like
polypropelene) on an outboard motor. The fuel tap was originally a
screw-in job but a previous owner stripped the threads. I used
Araldite last time, but it didn't hold very well.

What adhesive should I try next? Superglue? I also have some Golden
Hermatite. Perhaps that would work...

Thank you.

Al Deveron

Try
http://www.epoxy-adhesive.com/adhesi...ranslucent.pdf

Regards
Don

The message
from Pete C contains these words:

Some superglue activators use it so it might be worth trying one out
on something made of PP, eg some ice cream tubs.

They're the ones with PP underneath the triangle with a 5 in it.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:24:33 GMT, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:

Loctite Plastix is supposed to bond all plastics. I tried it on a very small
part, but that didn't work. It might be OK on a relatively large item. Of
course, 100% cleanliness is a must.

Thanks. Yes, I agree that cleaning is essential. I cleaned the two
surfaces very thoroughly with alcohol before I tried the superglue,
and so far the joint seems very strong indeed. I now suspect the tank
was some other plastic (not polypropylene).

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:34:22 +0100, "Donwill" popple @diddle .dot
wrote:

http://www.epoxy-adhesive.com/adhesi...ranslucent.pdf

Looks like useful stuff - thanks.

Al D

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:45:14 +0100, Pete C
wrote:

If it is PP and superglue comes unstuck, have a look at this guide:

http://www.loctite.us/int_henkel/loctite_us/index.cfm?&pageid=151&layout=2

It recommends Loctite 770 as an activator, which *appears to be*
basically n-heptane:

http://www.bmed.mcgill.ca/dept_resou...er%20Prism.pdf

Thanks for that. There is also something called Scotch-Weld 2216 from
3M which is supposed to stick polypropylene and polyethelene. I have
ordered some, just in case the superglue comes unstuck.

Al D