I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display cabinet.
The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of 2.3m x 1.2m wide,
carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display purposes, internally
finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two full size glass doors and two
glass shelves, which should help with light distribution inside the
cupboard.

My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
minimal heat dissipation.

Some questions:-

Am I going to be better off with a continuous strip down each side, or
should i be looking at 3 pairs of strips, one for each display area?

How much useful light do LEDs give for this purpose?

Are the strips likely to be enough, or should I also be installing a couple
of wide angle LED floods in the top of the cabinet

What is the colour like with white LEDs? Is it extremely harsh and cold?


--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:20:09 +0000, The Wanderer wrote:

|I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display cabinet.
|The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of 2.3m x 1.2m wide,
|carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display purposes, internally
|finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two full size glass doors and two
|glass shelves, which should help with light distribution inside the
|cupboard.
|
|My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
|hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
|minimal heat dissipation.

Saw some of those at Maplins, but not lit
|
|Some questions:-
|
|Am I going to be better off with a continuous strip down each side, or
|should i be looking at 3 pairs of strips, one for each display area?
|
|How much useful light do LEDs give for this purpose?
|
|Are the strips likely to be enough, or should I also be installing a couple
|of wide angle LED floods in the top of the cabinet
|
|What is the colour like with white LEDs? Is it extremely harsh and cold?

White LEDs are very *white*, a lot different from incandescent or warm
white fluorescent or ordinary energy saving bulbs. The difference of
having Leeds in a room generally lit by any of the above will be *very*
noticeable. Get a cheap LED torch to demonstrate the effect. It is
possible to get white florescent which match LEDs, but I am not sure where.
I have some in a reading lamp I got from Lidl recently.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:20:09 +0000, The Wanderer wrote:

|I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display
cabinet.
|The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of 2.3m x 1.2m wide,
|carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display purposes, internally
|finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two full size glass doors and
two
|glass shelves, which should help with light distribution inside the
|cupboard.
|
|My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
|hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
|minimal heat dissipation.


Cold cathode tubes are cheaper,look like very slim fluorescents,and are also
available from Maplins.

The Wanderer wrote:
I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display cabinet.
The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of 2.3m x 1.2m wide,
carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display purposes, internally
finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two full size glass doors and two
glass shelves, which should help with light distribution inside the
cupboard.

My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
minimal heat dissipation.

The heat is about the same either with LEDs or halogens, it's just more
spread out with LED.

I would consider 2 - probably dimmed fluorescant tubes down the sides.

First step is to work out how many lumens you want in there.

You need to put some sort of light source in there, probably 4 points,
and see what it's like in various conditions.

Adrian Berry wrote:

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:20:09 +0000, The Wanderer wrote:

|I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display
cabinet.
|The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of 2.3m x 1.2m wide,
|carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display purposes, internally
|finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two full size glass doors and
two
|glass shelves, which should help with light distribution inside the
|cupboard.
|
|My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
|hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
|minimal heat dissipation.


Cold cathode tubes are cheaper,look like very slim fluorescents,and are also
available from Maplins.

http://www.ebuyer.com/ IIRC, 2 quid for 2*12" CCFL.
12V 0.4A IIRC.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

White LEDs are very *white*

IME they are very /blue/ especially when compared to incandescent
lighting. I have an LED torch with the option of 3 hyperbright LEDs,
6 hyperbrights and one incandescent bulb. you have to cycle through
all three states to switch on and off and the /blue/ spectrum of the
LEDs is in stark relief to the yellow of the incandescent bulb.

very blue, very cold.

Adrian Berry wrote:
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:20:09 +0000, The Wanderer
wrote:

I'm in the process of turning an old hall cupboard into a display
cabinet. The cabinet will be floor to ceiling, nominal height of
2.3m x 1.2m wide, carcased - the walls aren't brilliant for display
purposes, internally finished in a satin lustre ivory colour, two
full size glass doors and two glass shelves, which should help with
light distribution inside the cupboard.

My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED
striplights hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs
because of the minimal heat dissipation.


Cold cathode tubes are cheaper,look like very slim fluorescents,and
are also available from Maplins.

This is revealing my blueprints here,but what the heck.

I've been buying a couple of laptops offa ebay at silly prices only for the
backlights and inverter supplys to add lighting to similair cabinets I
have, these backlight flourecents are the thinness of a straw and a 12v
supply to the inverter and the light it gives is good. ;-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

In article ,
The Wanderer wrote:
My initial thoughts are for two vertical rows of white LED striplights
hidden behind each architrave. I like the idea of LEDs because of the
minimal heat dissipation.

Use fluorescents. They produce *less* heat - and even less if you site the
ballasts away from the lamps where the heat doesn't matter.

--
*Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from The Wanderer contains these words:

What is the colour like with white LEDs? Is it extremely harsh and cold?

Tends to be rather bluish, which can be a good thing if you're
displaying glass. I had some in some shelves once shining down onto
glass objects. Looked OK - but choose narrow angle LEDs and have quite a
few.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:

|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| White LEDs are very *white*

Which is what *I* see.

|IME they are very /blue/ especially when compared to incandescent
|lighting. I have an LED torch with the option of 3 hyperbright LEDs,
|6 hyperbrights and one incandescent bulb. you have to cycle through
|all three states to switch on and off and the /blue/ spectrum of the
|LEDs is in stark relief to the yellow of the incandescent bulb.

What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.

|very blue, very cold.

Colour is a very personal thing, we all see colours differently, and only
know that red is red because we were taught that as children. When I was
a kid at school, we had a talk from a bloke from the then ICI Dyestuffs
Division. He had a simple sequence of deyed pieces of cloth from light
green to dark brown, and another single patch which we had to match against
one of the set. We all matched the singleton to different places in the
sequence. That has stuck with me for mumble years.

The human eye with the brain is a very strange combination. After a while
it judges whatever it thinks is white as white, whatever the actual
wavelengths of light it receives.

And that is not the mention colour blindness.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

White LEDs are very *white*

Which is what *I* see.

IME they are very /blue/

snip

What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.

what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those lightsources

very blue, very cold.

Colour is a very personal thing

it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.

.. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
snip
Colour is a very personal thing

it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.

Not really.
Kelvins only works for black body sources, that act like a hot object
radiating light.
For lights that are not black bodys, such as LEDs or fluorescant, it's a
hell of a lot less clear, as the spectrum diverges considerably from a
proper black body.
Objects can look substantially different under lights of nominally the
same colour temperature and brightness.

Ian Stirling wrote:
. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
snip
Colour is a very personal thing

it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.

Not really.
Kelvins only works for black body sources, that act like a hot object
radiating light.
For lights that are not black bodys, such as LEDs or fluorescant,
it's a hell of a lot less clear, as the spectrum diverges
considerably from a proper black body.

all true but 'white' LEDs still look blue, not white.

Objects can look substantially different under lights of nominally the
same colour temperature and brightness.

get away, really ?

In article ,
"." writes:

all true but 'white' LEDs still look blue, not white.

Depends on the circumstances. They will look white in
midday sunshine. They will look blue when the ambient
lighting is lower colour temperature and dimmer, like
sunrise or sunset, or artificial lighting indoors.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:35:26 GMT, "." wrote:

|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| White LEDs are very *white*
|
| Which is what *I* see.
|
| IME they are very /blue/
|
|snip
|
| What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.
|
|what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those lightsources
|
| very blue, very cold.
|
| Colour is a very personal thing
|
|it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.
|
Kelvins are a *temperature* scale.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/At...re/kelvin.html
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"." writes:

all true but 'white' LEDs still look blue, not white.

Depends on the circumstances. They will look white in
midday sunshine. They will look blue when the ambient
lighting is lower colour temperature and dimmer, like
sunrise or sunset, or artificial lighting indoors.

Then there are 'warm white' LEDs, which actually exhibit a tungsten-like
spectrum, without much obvious blue peak at all.
Not quite as efficient as the cool blue ones.

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
Colour is a very personal thing, we all see colours differently, and
only know that red is red because we were taught that as children.
When I was a kid at school, we had a talk from a bloke from the then ICI
Dyestuffs Division. He had a simple sequence of deyed pieces of cloth
from light green to dark brown, and another single patch which we had to
match against one of the set. We all matched the singleton to
different places in the sequence. That has stuck with me for mumble
years.

Best one is to get some form of light box - or even a decent CRT - where
you can adjust RGB to give any colour. Then try and match a narrow band
light source like the old sodium street lighting. No two people will agree.

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:35:26 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

White LEDs are very *white*

Which is what *I* see.

IME they are very /blue/

snip

What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.

what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those
lightsources

very blue, very cold.

Colour is a very personal thing

it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.

Kelvins are a *temperature* scale.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/At...re/kelvin.html

oh, dear, poor dave :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:49:22 GMT, "." wrote:

|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:35:26 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| White LEDs are very *white*
|
| Which is what *I* see.
|
| IME they are very /blue/
|
| snip
|
| What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.
|
| what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those
| lightsources
|
| very blue, very cold.
|
| Colour is a very personal thing
|
| it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.
|
| Kelvins are a *temperature* scale.
| http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/At...re/kelvin.html
|
|oh, dear, poor dave :-(
|
|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

Colour temperature is totally inappropriate for measuring the wavelengths
light from LEDs. What colour temperature is a green LED?

http://www.theledlight.com/5mmcoloredleds.html
5mm Violet LEDs - 5mm Blue LEDs - 5mm Blue-Green LEDs - 5mm Green LEDs -
5mm Yellow-Green LEDs - 5mm Yellow LEDs - 5mm Orange LEDs - 5mm Red-Orange
LEDs - 5mm Amber LEDs - 5mm Red LEDs Toshiba LEDs
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:49:22 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:35:26 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

White LEDs are very *white*

Which is what *I* see.

IME they are very /blue/

snip

What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.

what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those
lightsources

very blue, very cold.

Colour is a very personal thing

it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.

Kelvins are a *temperature* scale.
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/At...re/kelvin.html

oh, dear, poor dave :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

Colour temperature is totally inappropriate for measuring the
wavelengths light from LEDs. What colour temperature is a green LED?

I don't care ! but here's some reading matter for /you/ ;-)

http://www.helios32.com/LEDOctMODELING21-23_Reprint.pdf

http://snipurl.com/nwme

hth

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:54:55 GMT, "." wrote:

|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:49:22 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:35:26 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:31:18 GMT, "." wrote:
|
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| White LEDs are very *white*
|
| Which is what *I* see.
|
| IME they are very /blue/
|
| snip
|
| What you are seeing is the *difference* between the light sources.
|
| what I'm seeing is different wavelengths given out by those
| lightsources
|
| very blue, very cold.
|
| Colour is a very personal thing
|
| it's totally impersonal, measured in Kelvin's.
|
| Kelvins are a *temperature* scale.
| http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/At...re/kelvin.html
|
| oh, dear, poor dave :-(
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
|
| Colour temperature is totally inappropriate for measuring the
| wavelengths light from LEDs. What colour temperature is a green LED?
|
|I don't care ! but here's some reading matter for /you/ ;-)
|
|http://www.helios32.com/LEDOctMODELING21-23_Reprint.pdf

Thanks, it demonstrated my point perfectly.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
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will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

The Wanderer wrote:

What is the colour like with white LEDs? Is it extremely harsh and cold?


Not if you buy the right ones. One marketing name is "golden white" try
"sunny white". There are probably others.

MBQ