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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Round conduit metal box?
Boyz,
So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the round knockouts in a metal box? I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)? Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through? All the best .. T i m |
#2
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Round conduit metal box?
T i m wrote:
Boyz, So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the round knockouts in a metal box? I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)? Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through? All the best .. T i m Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think? -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#3
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:02 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote: T i m wrote: Boyz, So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the round knockouts in a metal box? I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)? Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through? All the best .. T i m Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think? I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place? When I started work (BT, electronics Eng) I was taught the idea of 'flexibility points', a long run being broken down into accessable replaceble sections with the joints easily accessable. A similar thing we do with bigger trunking with access covers and plumbing with rodding eyes etc. I suppose I could do what many folk seem to do (or have done) is scrape a line down the wall, hold the cables back and skim / paper over the top but would that be considered 'the right way to do it' ? I have come across a pair of such wires as I removed the paper (some of the very thin skim was 'blowing off' in places) and I really don't like seeing it like that? Maybe it's because I have come from more precise trades (electronics , microfilm / fiche support, PC's, model engineering etc) that some of the current building solutions seem so basic (ok, often no less functional) to me? And I have never had to make a living from the other trades of course (which is probably a bigger component to why works seem so slapdah these days (see other threads here)). Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh All the best .. T i m |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:02 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote: T i m wrote: Boyz, So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the round knockouts in a metal box? I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)? Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through? All the best .. T i m Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think? I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place? When I started work (BT, electronics Eng) I was taught the idea of 'flexibility points', a long run being broken down into accessable replaceble sections with the joints easily accessable. A similar thing we do with bigger trunking with access covers and plumbing with rodding eyes etc. I suppose I could do what many folk seem to do (or have done) is scrape a line down the wall, hold the cables back and skim / paper over the top but would that be considered 'the right way to do it' ? I have come across a pair of such wires as I removed the paper (some of the very thin skim was 'blowing off' in places) and I really don't like seeing it like that? Maybe it's because I have come from more precise trades (electronics , microfilm / fiche support, PC's, model engineering etc) that some of the current building solutions seem so basic (ok, often no less functional) to me? And I have never had to make a living from the other trades of course (which is probably a bigger component to why works seem so slapdah these days (see other threads here)). Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh All the best .. T i m Or maybe this type of conduit was basically for external situations whereby it can repositiond easily in the future if needed ie most suited for factory and shops. -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:06:13 +0000, T i m wrote:
Boyz, So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the round knockouts in a metal box? I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)? Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through? All the best .. T i m Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Dave |
#6
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:09:49 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote: .. I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place? .. Or maybe this type of conduit was basically for external situations whereby it can repositiond easily in the future if needed ie most suited for factory and shops. As well, yes ;-) All the best .. T i m |
#7
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote: .. Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you want to etc)? All the best T i m |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton wrote: . Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you want to etc)? All the best T i m Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the top. Dave |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:24:18 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton wrote: . Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you want to etc)? All the best T i m Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the top. Ah ok .. Is it that sorta flattened out bridge shape and so wouldn't you have to cut a 'wider' slot for it than say with oval (or is it just an arch with no side flanges if you know what I mean)? All the best .. T i m |
#10
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Round conduit metal box?
Owain wrote:
T i m wrote: Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh I suppose the installation manual wasn't much use if it had been out in the wet, but a spirit level should have survived. It's always nice to get surprise free gifts like that. Owain Screwfix seem to feel the need to give me a small red spirit level as a "Welcome Gift" everytime I order from them. |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:52:47 +0000, Owain
wrote: T i m wrote: Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh I suppose the installation manual wasn't much use if it had been out in the wet, but a spirit level should have survived. Well to be fair it was in a 'flaped over' poly bag and taped to the side of the unit by one corner. How long it would have stayed there is another matter of course. The spirit level is fine and I'm keeping it warm for them .. ;-) It's always nice to get surprise free gifts like that. It is indeed .. like the lucky sod who must have found my Leatherman PST in the road after I'd used it to fit the spare clutch clutch cable I carry for when they snap. I *could* have let the AA do it but it only took me 10 mins and we were on our way .. one Leatherman lighter of course ;-( Luckily I listened to 'her' for a change and found a new replacement on eBay for half what I paid for my old one ... took a while to break it in though ... ;-( All the best .. T i m |
#12
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Round conduit metal box?
In article ,
Richard Conway wrote: Screwfix seem to feel the need to give me a small red spirit level as a "Welcome Gift" everytime I order from them. So how do you manage to convince them that you deserve that! ;-) -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
Dave Stanton wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton wrote: Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you want to etc)? Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the top. And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be _sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit. Did anyone answer Tim's original question about how to terminate PVC conduit to a metal box? You use a fitting called a "female adaptor" like these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/53577.jpg or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._1/MT20FMA.JPG The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E cables will go through OK (just). HTH -- Andy |
#14
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:52:16 +0000,it is alleged that Andy Wade
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y: Did anyone answer Tim's original question about how to terminate PVC conduit to a metal box? You use a fitting called a "female adaptor" like these: http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/53577.jpg or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._1/MT20FMA.JPG The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E cables will go through OK (just). Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit' -- You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist. - Indira Gandhi |
#15
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Round conduit metal box?
Chip wrote:
Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit' You could do it with an oval to round adaptor, a very short length of round conduit and a female adaptor. -- Andy |
#16
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Round conduit metal box?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:21:20 GMT, Chip
wrote: The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E cables will go through OK (just). Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit' Hmmm .. now there's business oppertunity if ever I heard one! ;-) 16, 20, 25 to single, 32mm oval to twin box holes converter. "Allows an easy transition between oval and round. no more stuck wires, no need for loose grommets. Simply snaps into metal box and oval pushes into convertor". ;-) Give it five 5 years .. 2mil house in Barbados next to similar folk who earnt their fortunes from curtian rings or fridge safety catches. ;-) All the best .. T i m |
#17
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Round conduit metal box?
In message , Dave Stanton
writes On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton wrote: . Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this job instead of faffing around with other stuff. Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you want to etc)? Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the top. Hmmmm, in my experience not so easily, as instead of straight run of smooth conduit, you have got rough uneven wall behind. And TBh, I find it easier to use the conduit than the capping, for one it needs fixing less, but then my old house had very hard mortar in places. -- Chris French |
#18
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Round conduit metal box?
And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be _sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit. I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what should be a simple job. Dave |
#19
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Round conduit metal box?
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:00:59 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote: And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be _sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit. I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what should be a simple job. Hi Dave .. and thanks for your concern. ;-) I find most 'simple jobs' are those that have been the best thought through or experienced before. If I have had need to do something, the initial 'design' (in my head) often starts complicated, then get's refined as I think up simpler solutions. I have rewired a few houses in my time (this one 30 years ago and friends / family etc) and have used / seen all the solutions that have been discussed so far. I asked the question to make sure there wasn't some new rule that I needed to know about or some new 'clip fix' solution that "everyone uses" these days? As usual the solutions range between 'what the trade can get away with' (cheapest / quickest) and mine (money / time less important than doing a permenant and flexible job) ;-) To me, putting a cable in a trunking that would allow easy cable replacement makes as much sense as when we ran the new plastic water main in some waste pipe when we were about to build our extension on top of it. Ok, it took another 20 mins and cost another 2.50 but will be worth every second / penny should something go wrong in the future. ;-) All the best .. T i m p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are standing by. |
#20
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
In message , Dave Stanton
writes And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be _sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit. I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what should be a simple job. yes, quite. -- Chris French |
#21
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
T i m p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are standing by. One thing I will say Tim, is at least you did get advice before doing the job. Too many come here after they have made the balls up. Good luck, hope everything goes ok. Dave |
#22
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Round conduit metal box?
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:44:07 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote: T i m p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are standing by. One thing I will say Tim, is at least you did get advice before doing the job. I thought it was sensible to poll those that know (and some who don't of course) ;-) Too many come here after they have made the balls up. I can't remember the last time I made a real 'balls up'? Possibly because I *do* think things through and try to get feedback from those in the game etc. The *problem* with the latter is they are often working from a different book to me, them having to make a living out of it etc? Good luck, hope everything goes ok. Thanks Dave .. it has so far today anyway. 10 boxes cut in, 5 in blockwork and 5 (in what felt like) granite! I used my plastic drill jig thing and on the blockwork the Nutool cheapo hammer drill. The jig stayed in place every time and I was able to produce 5 neat, square, even holes in next to no time. ;-) On the harder stuff I used the Challenge SDS drill (again cheap n faultless all be it slightly heavy) but on at least 2 of the 5 boxes, one the two plugs holding the jig in place broke free leaving me to 'guide' the drill each time (stll handy having the jig and I took the liberty to draw round it to see if it moved at any time before I started). A bit more work needed with the cold chisel / bolster but I'm still pleased with the result. The only damage done (and that was slight) was when I used the SDS pointed chisel to break away the middle of the first of the 'hard' boxes and that took a little of the render with it (so I continued by hand with no more damage). I just need to run the vertical chases with the new chasing tool and then I can set the trunking and boxes (with the aid of some gripfill probably) and I might do that tomorrow or some evenings next week ready for the plasterer next week. Just got in and dinner was ready so now for a shower to help my (slightly) happily, aching body ;-) All the best .. and thanks to all that offered help and advice ;-) T i m |
#23
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Im an electrician, what I do is chop out the wall and the metal box to 25-27mm. Screw the Box to the wall, use 20mm round conduit and simply put the conduit inside the box so that it is approximatley 5mm inside of it. I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Job done and you can skim over the conduit, but you can usually without to much trouble pull new cables through if you want/need to.
Can be a pain going that deep in stone, but in brick and block it easy really. |
#24
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Round conduit metal box?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:37:39 +0000, andymason79
wrote: Im an electrician, what I do is chop out the wall and the metal box to 25-27mm. Screw the Box to the wall, use 20mm round conduit and simply put the conduit inside the box so that it is approximatley 5mm inside of it. That sounds like a good idea .. no grommets to push / fall out ;-) I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my Dad had some of those once .. ;-) Job done and you can skim over the conduit, but you can usually without to much trouble pull new cables through if you want/need to. And no nasty changes in shape (oval to round) nibs of brick etc to snag on ;-) Can be a pain going that deep in stone, but in brick and block it easy really. Ah, even stone would bend to the power of the wall dimond disk wall chaser! ;-) I'd have to say that it's been a pretty good bit of kit. Not half the dust folk warned me of (it may of been the new bag in Henry or the fact I gaffer taped the Henry nozzle to the dust outlet on the chaser at 45 deg (so it didn;t stick out at 90 deg) or the fairly flat wall surface ..) and it ran through plaster / blockwork and walked through some pretty hard brickwork (stuff that bent the nails on wire clips). With the blockwork one cut and then break away the middle and for the brick, two cuts (second cut with the blades set in and then used to 'route' the slot clean) and it's sorted ;-) I'm not sure 'crampets' would have gone far in the hard brick re holding the oval in place but a few dabs of Gripfill did the trick .. till the plasterer turns up anyway ;-) All the best .. T i m |
#25
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y: [snip] I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my Dad had some of those once .. ;-) http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ] [snip] -- You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist. - Indira Gandhi |
#26
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:50:29 GMT, Chip
wrote: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m spake thusly in uk.d-i-y: [snip] I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my Dad had some of those once .. ;-) http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html Yeah, I did find them with Google thanks (after I ignored the 'did u mean ..) ;-) Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ] What are they actually supposed to be used for? All the best .. T i m |
#27
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Round conduit metal box?
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:35:56 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:50:29 GMT, Chip wrote: On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m spake thusly in uk.d-i-y: [snip] I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my Dad had some of those once .. ;-) http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html Yeah, I did find them with Google thanks (after I ignored the 'did u mean ..) ;-) Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ] What are they actually supposed to be used for? I believe pretty much that purpose (only with steel conduit) Also for attaching steel conduit to other 'easily hammered into' things, such as exterior brick walls wheen using the galvanized versions. -- You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist. - Indira Gandhi |
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