On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:40:10 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Steve Yerbury wrote:
[snip about not using mobile telephones at petrol stations]

Rather than applying a total prohibition on the use of mobile telephones
on petrol forecourts which has resulted in some anomalies and frequent
abuse to staff, the following controls are recommended:

If there really was a danger, use of mobile 'phones on garage premises
would be forbidden in the same way that naked flames are, 'cos they'd
amount to the same thing.

They are round here. If you are referring to motor repair premises
it's that there are special rules about handling /exposing/storing
/chucking about etc., petrol as opposed to mobile phones.

Only one of the two needs to be controlled.

DG

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
The risk is low, but it is still a risk. I believe mobiles should not be
used when dispensing petrol.

Please explain how the sparks from a starter motor commutator are
therefore safe?

Oh give up.

One person once had a forecourt fire just at the same time their mobile
rang.

Its been banned ever since.

Because people don;t understand science, risk, or anything other than
the fairy stories they get told, and most of those feature the Big Bad
Wolf that is essentially the reflection of their own ignorance and fear.

How else could Nu Laber ever get elected..?

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The risk is low, but it is still a risk. I believe mobiles should
not be used when dispensing petrol.

Please explain how the sparks from a starter motor commutator are
therefore safe?

I did not say they were

Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but i cant be arsed to
read all 1568 messages above....

I saw a program called braniac science abuse on sky where

* they doused a caravan in petrol
* placed five or six mobile phones inside
* ran for cover
* rang the phones

and absolutley nothing happened! ! !

so in the name of science they had a guy jump up and down to create
static and he touched one end of a fuse which blew the caravan in
smithereens.

How many people do you see on a garage fourcourt on there mobiles
(loads) if it were that great a risk they would inforce it more!

Is this the longest thread ever? (1568 messages)

Steve ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

I saw a program called braniac science abuse on sky where

and absolutley nothing happened! ! !

Really? Just like the previous fourteen times it's been mentioned in the
last day or two?

Is this the longest thread ever? (1568 messages)

Not even close.

look you couldnt be arsed to read the first paragraph of my message
"Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but i cant be arsed to
read all 1568 messages above."

So dont mock me for not being arsed to read through 1500+ messages!

What is the longest thread ever perhaps they would like to hear my
braniac story!?! : )

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The risk is low, but it is still a risk. I believe mobiles should
not be used when dispensing petrol.

Please explain how the sparks from a starter motor commutator are
therefore safe?

I did not say they were

Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

--
Gerbil

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
The risk is low, but it is still a risk. I believe mobiles should
not be used when dispensing petrol.

Please explain how the sparks from a starter motor commutator are
therefore safe?

I did not say they were

Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

Petrol vapour is heavier than air. Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter
motor is usually near the bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or
so of the ground. Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it. Now starter
motors aren't rated for continuous use so don't have ventilation. So I
suppose any explosion *might* be contained within it. But old cars with
dynamos certainly did have the commutator exposed to the surrounding air -
they have a fan pushing it past it, and they sparked too.

Of course RF (microwave) energy can cause a fire. Everyone with a
microwave oven knows you can cook with them. But they produce hundreds of
watts of energy. A mobile phone about a maximum of 1 watt - and only for a
very short time. And of course they can produce that maximum RF when
simply 'talking' to their nearest base station while not in actual use.

I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can be
left on but not used close to a petrol pump.

--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
The risk is low, but it is still a risk. I believe mobiles should
not be used when dispensing petrol.

Please explain how the sparks from a starter motor commutator are
therefore safe?

I did not say they were

Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

Petrol vapour is heavier than air.
agreed
Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter
motor is usually near the bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or
so of the ground. Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the nozzle/filler.
Unless of course you are in a confined space and there is no
ventilation.

Now starter
motors aren't rated for continuous use so don't have ventilation. So I
suppose any explosion *might* be contained within it. But old cars with
dynamos certainly did have the commutator exposed to the surrounding air -
they have a fan pushing it past it, and they sparked too.

Of course RF (microwave) energy can cause a fire. Everyone with a
microwave oven knows you can cook with them. But they produce hundreds of
watts of energy. A mobile phone about a maximum of 1 watt - and only for a
very short time. And of course they can produce that maximum RF when
simply 'talking' to their nearest base station while not in actual use.

RF is a red herring.

I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can be
left on but not used close to a petrol pump.


The guidance from the HSE says it must be turned off.

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

--
Gerbil

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

Petrol vapour is heavier than air.

agreed

Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the bottom
of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground. Near
maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the nozzle/filler.
Unless of course you are in a confined space and there is no
ventilation.

Ok then. Do you use your mobile phone to talk with your dick? ;-)

[snip]


Of course RF (microwave) energy can cause a fire. Everyone with a
microwave oven knows you can cook with them. But they produce hundreds
of watts of energy. A mobile phone about a maximum of 1 watt - and only
for a very short time. And of course they can produce that maximum RF
when simply 'talking' to their nearest base station while not in actual
use.

RF is a red herring.

Really? So explain the dangers of using a mobile phone?

I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can be
left on but not used close to a petrol pump.


The guidance from the HSE says it must be turned off.

They are frequently fallible. Laws on the use of laser 'pointers' are a
prime example. Plenty more around too.

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

I'm still waiting for an answer why using a phone is more of a risk than
just having it on your person. If it's not RF, then it's the danger of it
being dropped and a spark from the battery connector. Dunno about you, but
it falling out of my pocket is equally as likely as dropping it in use.
Both near enough zero.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:51:54 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

Petrol vapour is heavier than air.

agreed

Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the bottom
of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground. Near
maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the nozzle/filler.
Unless of course you are in a confined space and there is no
ventilation.

Ok then. Do you use your mobile phone to talk with your dick? ;-)

old joke

"Can I use your Dictaphone?"

"No - use your finger like everyone else"

/old joke

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:

[mobile phones and petrol vapour]
The risk is small, but it is still a risk.
If the risk is small it must have been measured. Presumably you have the
statistics from accidents or results of experiments. Or do you mean "There may
be a small risk"?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

If the risk is small it must have been measured. Presumably you have
the statistics from accidents or results of experiments. Or do you
mean "There may be a small risk"?

It's probably on a par with somebody suffering Spontaneous Human Combustion
whilst filling their car...

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
Better push your car off the forecourt, then...

Why?

Petrol vapour is heavier than air.

agreed

Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the bottom
of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground. Near
maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the nozzle/filler.
Unless of course you are in a confined space and there is no
ventilation.

Ok then. Do you use your mobile phone to talk with your dick? ;-)


I don't even have a pet name for mine. Do you.


[snip]


Of course RF (microwave) energy can cause a fire. Everyone with a
microwave oven knows you can cook with them. But they produce hundreds
of watts of energy. A mobile phone about a maximum of 1 watt - and only
for a very short time. And of course they can produce that maximum RF
when simply 'talking' to their nearest base station while not in actual
use.

RF is a red herring.

Really? So explain the dangers of using a mobile phone?

I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can be
left on but not used close to a petrol pump.


The guidance from the HSE says it must be turned off.

They are frequently fallible. Laws on the use of laser 'pointers' are a
prime example. Plenty more around too.

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

I'm still waiting for an answer why using a phone is more of a risk than
just having it on your person. If it's not RF, then it's the danger of it
being dropped and a spark from the battery connector. Dunno about you, but
it falling out of my pocket is equally as likely as dropping it in use.
Both near enough zero.

Have you performed a risk assessment under DSEAR?
--
Gerbil

In message , John Cartmell
writes
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:

[mobile phones and petrol vapour]
The risk is small, but it is still a risk.
If the risk is small it must have been measured. Presumably you have the
statistics from accidents or results of experiments. Or do you mean "There may
be a small risk"?

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.
--
Gerbil

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
John Cartmell ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

If the risk is small it must have been measured. Presumably you have
the statistics from accidents or results of experiments. Or do you
mean "There may be a small risk"?

It's probably on a par with somebody suffering Spontaneous Human Combustion
whilst filling their car...

Have you got data on that?
--
Gerbil

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The risk is small, but it is still a risk.

If the risk is small it must have been measured. Presumably you have
the statistics from accidents or results of experiments. Or do you
mean "There may be a small risk"?

It's probably on a par with somebody suffering Spontaneous Human
Combustion whilst filling their car...

Have you got data on that?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.
--
Gerbil

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

Any car is full of them.

--
*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
I'm still waiting for an answer why using a phone is more of a risk
than just having it on your person. If it's not RF, then it's the
danger of it being dropped and a spark from the battery connector.
Dunno about you, but it falling out of my pocket is equally as likely
as dropping it in use. Both near enough zero.

Have you performed a risk assessment under DSEAR?

I'm asking for your assessment. You've said it's not an RF issue.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . 170,
Adrian wrote:
I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

That should get drivel's approval. He believes low energy magnetic fields
can do miracles - so why not explode petrol?

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message 70, Adrian
writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?
Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in the
area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.
--
Gerbil

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
I'm still waiting for an answer why using a phone is more of a risk
than just having it on your person. If it's not RF, then it's the
danger of it being dropped and a spark from the battery connector.
Dunno about you, but it falling out of my pocket is equally as likely
as dropping it in use. Both near enough zero.

Have you performed a risk assessment under DSEAR?

I'm asking for your assessment. You've said it's not an RF issue.

My assessment was that the use of unprotected electrical devices must
not occur in the zoned area.

Petrol is just one of many substances present.

--
Gerbil

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in the
area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Forgive me for being picky, but that's exactly what the conversation's
about...

Car's aren't permitted in my place of work, either. They won't get through
the door.

Look - it's simple.

You say that there's a high concentration of fuel vapour right next to
where the filling happens, and that it won't fall to the ground and be
ignited by the bluddy gurt big wurly-roundy-sparky electric motor that's
starting the engine before you drive off.

OK, so what about the non-hermetically-sealed solenoid that locks the
petrol filler flap as you walk away and fire off the radio frequency
central locking remote?

And if mobile phone frequencies are so unsafe from the very low power
transmitters in phones around petrol stations, why the hell do they put the
far higher power network transmitters into the big illuminated sign NEXT to
the pumps?

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central
locking solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in the
area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Do I sense goal posts being moved by magic? Are you actually dribble?

--
*To steal ideas from *one* person is plagiarism; from many, research*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

I have taken vapour measurements around filling points for various
flammable substances. The conclusion was that there should be no
unprotected electrical devices in the area.

What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central locking
solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in the
area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Forgive me for being picky, but that's exactly what the conversation's
about...

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
ignition in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

Car's aren't permitted in my place of work, either. They won't get through
the door.

Look - it's simple.

You say that there's a high concentration of fuel vapour right next to
where the filling happens,

Yup
and that it won't fall to the ground

I didn't say that
and be
ignited by the bluddy gurt big wurly-roundy-sparky electric motor that's
starting the engine before you drive off.

I didn't say that either

OK, so what about the non-hermetically-sealed solenoid that locks the
petrol filler flap as you walk away

Another possible source of ignition
and fire off the radio frequency
central locking remote?

RF too low

And if mobile phone frequencies are so unsafe from the very low power
transmitters in phones around petrol stations, why the hell do they put the
far higher power network transmitters into the big illuminated sign NEXT to
the pumps?
I never said that the RF from a phone would.
--
Gerbil

In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
Have you performed a risk assessment under DSEAR?

I'm asking for your assessment. You've said it's not an RF issue.

My assessment was that the use of unprotected electrical devices must
not occur in the zoned area.

Petrol is just one of many substances present.

Please tell about the other substances present at a car filling station?

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in
the area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Forgive me for being picky, but that's exactly what the conversation's
about...

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
ignition in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
explosion in a petrol station.

Look - it's simple.

You say that there's a high concentration of fuel vapour right next to
where the filling happens,

Yup

and that it won't fall to the ground

I didn't say that

Funny, that's how I read this :-
Message-ID:

## Petrol vapour is heavier than air.

# agreed

## Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the
## bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground.
## Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

# Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the
# nozzle/filler. Unless of course you are in a confined space and there
# is no ventilation.

Perhaps you could clarify?

and be
ignited by the bluddy gurt big wurly-roundy-sparky electric motor
that's starting the engine before you drive off.

I didn't say that either

OK, so what about the non-hermetically-sealed solenoid that locks the
petrol filler flap as you walk away

Another possible source of ignition

and fire off the radio frequency
central locking remote?

RF too low

And if mobile phone frequencies are so unsafe from the very low power
transmitters in phones around petrol stations, why the hell do they
put the far higher power network transmitters into the big illuminated
sign NEXT to the pumps?

I never said that the RF from a phone would.

Ah, OK - so you happily accept that actually there's FAR bigger ignition
risks than a mobile phone being used umptythousand times a day in petrol
stations all round the country with ABSOLUTELY no problem...?

Dave Plowman (News) ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Petrol is just one of many substances present.

Please tell about the other substances present at a car filling station?

Diesel?
Newspapers?
Chocolate?
Bad Coffee?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can be
left on but not used close to a petrol pump.

Joe public not too clever at safe use of phone and fuel dispensing equipment
together?

Phil Bradshaw ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

I've yet to see a plausible explanation about why a mobile phone can
be left on but not used close to a petrol pump.

Joe public not too clever at safe use of phone and fuel dispensing
equipment together?

There's a lot of surplus words in that sentence.

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Dave Plowman (News) ) gurgled happily, sounding much

Please tell about the other substances present at a car filling station?

Diesel?
Newspapers?
Chocolate?
Bad Coffee?

You got an MSDS for the latter? I'd expect a "hazardous in case of
ingestion" flag.

--
Steve Walker

In article . 170,
Adrian says...

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
ignition in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
explosion in a petrol station.

Exactly. Massive difference with the PPM count of the explosive gas.

--
Conor,

S.S.D.D.

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in
the area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Forgive me for being picky, but that's exactly what the conversation's
about...

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
ignition in a potentially explosive atmosphere.

The conversation was about whether a mobile phone could cause an
explosion in a petrol station.

Look - it's simple.

You say that there's a high concentration of fuel vapour right next to
where the filling happens,

Yup

and that it won't fall to the ground

I didn't say that

Funny, that's how I read this :-
Message-ID:

## Petrol vapour is heavier than air.

# agreed

## Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the
## bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground.
## Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

# Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the
# nozzle/filler. Unless of course you are in a confined space and there
# is no ventilation.

Perhaps you could clarify?

The highest concentration of vapour will be at the point when it first
enters the surrounding air. I.e. the nozzle/ filler. It is then diluted
by air the surrounding it. Yes the vapour is heavier than air but under
normal circumstances and ventilation dissipation is relatively rapid.

If you wish to find out more I suggest you look at the DSEAR guidance on
the HSE website



and be
ignited by the bluddy gurt big wurly-roundy-sparky electric motor
that's starting the engine before you drive off.

I didn't say that either

OK, so what about the non-hermetically-sealed solenoid that locks the
petrol filler flap as you walk away

Another possible source of ignition

and fire off the radio frequency
central locking remote?

RF too low

And if mobile phone frequencies are so unsafe from the very low power
transmitters in phones around petrol stations, why the hell do they
put the far higher power network transmitters into the big illuminated
sign NEXT to the pumps?

I never said that the RF from a phone would.

Ah, OK - so you happily accept that actually there's FAR bigger ignition
risks than a mobile phone being used umptythousand times a day in petrol
stations all round the country with ABSOLUTELY no problem...?

No, I don't *happily* accept it. I accept it however.
--
Gerbil

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Steve Yerbury wrote:
What, you mean "unprotected electrical devices" such as central
locking solenoids?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned area. Other devices are protected.

Cars aren't permitted next to petrol pumps?

Cars are not permitted in the zoned areas around filling points in the
area where I work. I said nothing about petrol pumps.

Do I sense goal posts being moved by magic? Are you actually dribble?

No and no.

You wanted data. I gave you data I had.
--
Gerbil

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

## Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the
## bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground.
## Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

# Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the
# nozzle/filler. Unless of course you are in a confined space and there
# is no ventilation.

Perhaps you could clarify?

The highest concentration of vapour will be at the point when it first
enters the surrounding air. I.e. the nozzle/ filler.

So right next to an unshielded solenoid that's operated mere seconds after
finishing filling the tank, then.

Ah, OK - so you happily accept that actually there's FAR bigger ignition
risks than a mobile phone being used umptythousand times a day in petrol
stations all round the country with ABSOLUTELY no problem...?

No, I don't *happily* accept it.

Go on...?

I accept it however.

OK. So the risk of using a mobile in a petrol station is so low as to be
utterly insignificant, and is far lower than plenty of other perfectly
standard things done virtually every time a car fills up.

So why are they banned?

In message . 170,
Adrian writes
Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

## Nozzle in tank - phone to ear. Starter motor is usually near the
## bottom of the engine - so within about a foot or so of the ground.
## Near maximum petrol vapour surrounding it.

# Disagree. The concentration of petrol will be around the
# nozzle/filler. Unless of course you are in a confined space and there
# is no ventilation.

Perhaps you could clarify?

The highest concentration of vapour will be at the point when it first
enters the surrounding air. I.e. the nozzle/ filler.

So right next to an unshielded solenoid that's operated mere seconds after
finishing filling the tank, then.

Not on my car.



Ah, OK - so you happily accept that actually there's FAR bigger ignition
risks than a mobile phone being used umptythousand times a day in petrol
stations all round the country with ABSOLUTELY no problem...?

No, I don't *happily* accept it.

Go on...?

I accept it however.

OK. So the risk of using a mobile in a petrol station is so low as to be
utterly insignificant, and is far lower than plenty of other perfectly
standard things done virtually every time a car fills up.

So why are they banned?

Because the general public cannot use them sensibly?

--
Gerbil

Steve Yerbury ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

The highest concentration of vapour will be at the point when it
first enters the surrounding air. I.e. the nozzle/ filler.

So right next to an unshielded solenoid that's operated mere seconds
after finishing filling the tank, then.

Not on my car.

I'd suspect that central locking of the fuel filler flap is fitted to the
vast majority of cars on the roads today.

So why are they banned?

Because the general public cannot use them sensibly?

Now that's another question entirely...

Unfortunately, the signs don't say "DO NOT USE MOBILE PHONES because you're
too stupid to do two things at once, and will end up spilling fuel
everywhere, ****wit". Even though they'd be absolutely bob-on if they did.

They say "DO NOT USE MOBILE PHONES - Risk of explosion".