We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

See following for more info
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/mis...hread/thread/=
11c3f6fc51f93744

Our last remaining problem is our upstairs floor. The floor beams sit
at different levels. This is cause to our unlevel floors and we cannot
lay floor coverings.

Redrow has tried to repair the floors once and promised they would not
bodge it to just within tolerance. Well that is exactly what they did.
Our floors still do not meet the NHBC standards. Apparently the
standards are not actually standards but guidelines. If there is going
to be too much cost involved with fixing things to within standards
then the NHBC does not force the builder to do so.

We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in. It is going to cost us approx
=A33000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.

Is there something else we can do???

Since removing a floorboard last night we have discovered that Redrow
have bodged the packing they carried out and there is random pieces of
plastic and plywood over the beams and the floorboard in some places
are not screwed into the beams just resting on it.

I am at a loss...


Kelly

In article .com,=20
says...
We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....
=20
See following for more info
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/mis..._thread/threa=
d/11c3f6fc51f93744
=20
Our last remaining problem is our upstairs floor. The floor beams sit
at different levels. This is cause to our unlevel floors and we cannot
lay floor coverings.
=20
Redrow has tried to repair the floors once and promised they would not
bodge it to just within tolerance. Well that is exactly what they did.
Our floors still do not meet the NHBC standards. Apparently the
standards are not actually standards but guidelines. If there is going
to be too much cost involved with fixing things to within standards
then the NHBC does not force the builder to do so.
=20
We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in. It is going to cost us approx
=A33000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.
=20
It seems to me that you could fix it yourselves for a lot less than that=20
- a LASER level, a drill/power driver, some screws, a load of packing=20
and something to cut it with is all that's required. Plus s load of=20
time and patience, of course.

wrote:
We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

See following for more info

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/mis...thread/thread/
11c3f6fc51f93744

Our last remaining problem is our upstairs floor. The floor beams sit
at different levels. This is cause to our unlevel floors and we cannot
lay floor coverings.

Redrow has tried to repair the floors once and promised they would not
bodge it to just within tolerance. Well that is exactly what they did.
Our floors still do not meet the NHBC standards. Apparently the
standards are not actually standards but guidelines. If there is going
to be too much cost involved with fixing things to within standards
then the NHBC does not force the builder to do so.

We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in. It is going to cost us approx
£3000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.

Is there something else we can do???

Since removing a floorboard last night we have discovered that Redrow
have bodged the packing they carried out and there is random pieces of
plastic and plywood over the beams and the floorboard in some places
are not screwed into the beams just resting on it.

I am at a loss...


Kelly

Have you tried bbc's 'Watchdog'? inform Redrow your going to do this and
see what they say, give them a time limit to correct the problem with a
successful repair but carry out your threat if they do not meet the
deadline.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

wrote:
We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new home
16 months ago....


Is there something else we can do???


Does your house insurance have legal expenses cover? If so, I'd be asking
them for their advice.

Rob

We have tried to contact watchdog but they are very selective about
there stories. You get 40 secs to describe your problem. They say due
to the number of calls they cannot follow up every story.
We had a follow up story in the local press this week and a national
newspaper consumer section is interested. I called redrow all day
yesterday to tell them this and the person who can make the decisions
is too busy to return our calls.

House insurance I am sure has legal cover.

However, we have already used the solicitor and Redrow just ignores
anything we send them. They know that we do not have enough time money
or sanity ( we have been living like this fighting for 16 months) to go
through that process.

They have us cornered.

wrote:
We have tried to contact watchdog but they are very selective about
there stories. You get 40 secs to describe your problem. They say due
to the number of calls they cannot follow up every story.
We had a follow up story in the local press this week and a national
newspaper consumer section is interested. I called redrow all day
yesterday to tell them this and the person who can make the decisions
is too busy to return our calls.

Telephoning a company with a problem such as yours is not the way to go, it
has to be via snail mail and in terms of proof corrospondance, telephoning
is not one of them.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

That would mean a file the size of an epic novel. I am not sure they
would bother to look into all that.. However, might be the only way to
go really.

Thanks

wrote:
House insurance I am sure has legal cover.

However, we have already used the solicitor and Redrow just ignores
anything we send them. They know that we do not have enough time money
or sanity ( we have been living like this fighting for 16 months) to go
through that process.

If your legal cover is still valid (it may not be now you've used another
solicitor but your insurance company will be able to tell you) you should be
using that. You really should be contacting your insurance company and
getting their advice.

Cheers

Rob

kellywatson wrote:
Redrow has tried to repair the floors once and promised they would not
bodge it to just within tolerance. Well that is exactly what they did.
Our floors still do not meet the NHBC standards. Apparently the
standards are not actually standards but guidelines. If there is going
to be too much cost involved with fixing things to within standards
then the NHBC does not force the builder to do so.

We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in. It is going to cost us approx
£3000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.

Is there something else we can do???

Post to uk.legal.moderated, and ask what your chances are
of a successful small claims procedure.

wrote:
We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

See following for more info
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/mis..._thread/threa=
d/11c3f6fc51f93744

Our last remaining problem is our upstairs floor. The floor beams sit
at different levels. This is cause to our unlevel floors and we cannot
lay floor coverings.

Redrow has tried to repair the floors once and promised they would not
bodge it to just within tolerance. Well that is exactly what they did.
Our floors still do not meet the NHBC standards. Apparently the
standards are not actually standards but guidelines.

lol

If there is going
to be too much cost involved with fixing things to within standards
then the NHBC does not force the builder to do so.

We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in.

So now youre wise to the NHBC game.


It is going to cost us approx
=A33000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.

Whoever quoted you that needs a kick where it hurts - unless your house
is pretty big.


Is there something else we can do???

Since removing a floorboard last night we have discovered that Redrow
have bodged the packing they carried out and there is random pieces of
plastic and plywood over the beams

sounds exactly how its meant to be.


and the floorboard in some places
are not screwed into the beams just resting on it.

you only need 2 screws a board. Maybe youre not familiar with this one.


I am at a loss...


Kelly

Could you spare =A3100 to do it? That should just cover it. It means you
doing the work, but its not difficult.

Youve already seen how to do it, unscrew the floor boards, and pack
them with assorted scrap to get the tops all level. Then rescrew the
boards.

You'll need a load of wood scrap for packing - see your nearest skip,
or get a bundle of free offcuts from your friendly diy shed. And youll
need a few tools. Electric saw, to cut the packing. Electric
screwdriver to unscrew and screw. Possibly more screws. And finally a
level. A long spirit level is =A31 from poundland, but check it before
buying, as some read right, some dont. Or get a small level and sit it
on a longer piece of wood. Or use a laser level if you like.

Thats all it takes. DIY is really quite easy once you know what to do,
and have been brave enough to give it a go. Just try not to stand on
anything while the floors up lol. And be careful about treading on
loose boards - stand on an unsupported end and it flips up, smacks you
in the teeth, and dumpe you through the ceiling. Temporary boards can
be (temporarily) screwed down to avoid this worry.


BTW, I'd be tempted to buy half inch chipboard and lay that onto the
packing before putting your floorboards back. This will give you a
large smooth flat surface, so any little errors in packing wont show
up: it would probably save a lot of work.

Which electric screwdriver? go for fast charge, 2 or 3 batteries, and
the higher v the better. Avoid junk brands.

Which saw? Probably the friendliest and cheapest for your job is
toolstation.com's =A327 mitre saw. That wont cut chip sheet tho, if you
do that you'll need a hand held circular saw. Any such will cut chip
like butter.

BTW, if the height differences are only small, I'd forget packing
altogether, and just put chipboard down then your nice floorboards on
top.

Its not 'ard, and it certainly wont cost you 3 grand!


NT

Unfortunately I am not that great at DIY as I have not had much
experience.

I am running out of time as the carpet place that is storing our
carpets (and has been for 18 months) wants us to take our carpets away.


We have family coming at Christmas and nowhere to put them. Family that
are storing our stuff are needing there space back again.

=A33000 is all the money we have for everything else we need in the
house and doing the garden. It just seems like a heck of a lot of money!

wrote:
£3000 is all the money we have for everything else we need in the
house and doing the garden. It just seems like a heck of a lot of money!

A small claim procedure is quick, and cheap.

wrote:
Unfortunately I am not that great at DIY as I have not had much
experience.

Do you have a friend or relative who might be able to help you out?
Even just for a few hours so you get the hang of the job?

I am running out of time as the carpet place that is storing our
carpets (and has been for 18 months) wants us to take our carpets away.


We have family coming at Christmas and nowhere to put them. Family that
are storing our stuff are needing there space back again.

Maybe you could strike a deal with the carpet place and your family.
Sort the house room by room and assure them that each time you finish a
room you'll take that carpet/furniture off their hands.

£3000 is all the money we have for everything else we need in the
house and doing the garden. It just seems like a heck of a lot of money!

It is a hell of a lot of money, especially as its not your fault and
isn't something you should be having to pay for anyway. You would save
a lot of it if you did do it yourself though.

wrote:
We have had professionals round to look at the floors and they have
agreed that the floors are unsuitable for coverings and cannot believe
the mess Redrow has left our floors in. It is going to cost us approx
£3000 to fix the problems by packing the floor boards. That is all our
savings.

Thinking about it, if the builder won't act, you're
going to have to pay for the work to be done. If you
can get your independent expert to witness, then
you can tell "Redrow" that you will fix it yourself,
and send them the bill, with the threat of action
to recover the money. Sorry, I don't know how the
law might work WRT this in Scotland.

wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
Could you spare £100 to do it? That should just cover it. It means you
doing the work, but its not difficult.

Youve already seen how to do it, unscrew the floor boards, and pack
them with assorted scrap to get the tops all level. Then rescrew the
boards.

etc

It's not quite that simple though. You need to find the highest point in
each room and pack up to that level, and then worry about whether the levels
in the doorways all meet up and what you're going to do about the top nosing
on the stairs. Some of the joists might be too high in relation to the
stairs, in which case there's nothing that can be done short of removing
them.

For packing up, it would be easier to screw lengths of timber to the sides
of the joists using a spirit level and straight-edge. They only need to be
25 x 50mm or so. Using loose scraps is exactly how Redrow tried to botch it
and failed.

If the joists are so uneven, what are the ground floor ceilings like?

Kelly, why weren't all the faults picked up by the Mortgage Valuer when you
bought the house? It doesn't sound like it was marketable (and therefore
mortgageable) and I think it's a question you should put to them. I take it
you didn't bother with a condition survey with a snagging list? This would
at least have allowed you to withhold part of the payment until the snags
had been sorted.

I'm sorry to hear all your woes. I hope you get it sorted out soon.
Peter

In article . com,=20
says...
Unfortunately I am not that great at DIY as I have not had much
experience.
=20
It's not a difficult job, although it may seem a bit intimidating. You=20
don't need to worry about finish - nobody will ever see the packing. =20
You can reuse the existing holes when refitting the boards - number the=20
boards so they go back in the same place. A LASER level makes setting=20
the levels very easy - if the projected beam is within a couple of=20
millimetres of the mark then your packing is the right thickness. All=20
you have to do is find the highest point on the floor joists and pack=20
everything else level with that. For packing pieces you can use=20
hardboard which is easily cut with an electric jigsaw, and the edges=20
don't need to be straight. Or if the joists are evenly sloping you can=20
cut a long wedge from a bit of timber and just lay it on top (a circular=20
saw would be better for that).
I reckon you could buy the tools you need for about =A3100, and the=20
materials for about =A330.

The house was bought from plans and the mortgage valuation was based on
the plans as it was not built.

I had never heard of professional snaggers before I got all these
problems. This is my first property purchase and I was a bit (ok a lot)
naive.

The problem we have is exacltly as described the worst area is in the
landing next to the adjoining walls. There is sharp downhill slopes
over the door ways and we are unsure how to tie in all the rooms and
match to the stairway.

Thanks for you help anyway!

kelly

Thanks for all your help everyone. Looks like I got a major fight on
my hands and a lot to think about.

kelly

wrote:

We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

Forget the DIY, get a professional in to assess the floors and the
cost to rectify, put it in writing to Redrow AND all their directors -
get their addresses for a few quid online at
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

Give them a set time to respond. Then if no response get someone (NOT
YOU) to do the work and then proceed through the small claims court to
recover your costs.


--

wrote in message
ups.com...
The house was bought from plans and the mortgage valuation was based on
the plans as it was not built.

I had never heard of professional snaggers before I got all these
problems. This is my first property purchase and I was a bit (ok a lot)
naive.

The problem we have is exacltly as described the worst area is in the
landing next to the adjoining walls. There is sharp downhill slopes
over the door ways and we are unsure how to tie in all the rooms and
match to the stairway.


It may have nothing to do with your problem but there were houses near here
with a similar problem some years ago. The downstairs was open plan and
there was meant to be a 12" x 12" main joist across the house that the other
floor joists rested on. The builder had fitted a 10" x 10" (or worse) and
the upstairs floor had sagged, leaving inch gaps under the stud walls in
their centres upstairs. This was eventually sorted under the NHBC guarantee
(as they were not built to plan) AFAICR.

Good uck, after 16 months you must be a bit upset (in spite of our clever
ways on this ng, most of us would be too!).
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article ,
Matt wrote:
wrote:

We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

Forget the DIY, get a professional in to assess the floors and the
cost to rectify, put it in writing to Redrow AND all their directors -
get their addresses for a few quid online at
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/

Give them a set time to respond. Then if no response get someone (NOT
YOU) to do the work and then proceed through the small claims court to
recover your costs.

Including storage costs for your carpets. Not to mention wear and tear on
yourself!

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
Matt wrote:

wrote:


We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....


Forget the DIY, get a professional in to assess the floors and the
cost to rectify, put it in writing to Redrow AND all their directors -
get their addresses for a few quid online at
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/


Give them a set time to respond. Then if no response get someone (NOT
YOU) to do the work and then proceed through the small claims court to
recover your costs.


Including storage costs for your carpets. Not to mention wear and tear on
yourself!


Threaten (in writing I guess) to charge 'em £10 ago for each letter and
call as an administration charge. Then send them an invoice for those too!

Alex.

We are having problems with our builder Redrow. We moved into our new
home 16 months ago....

Having lived in a Redrow house myself, you have my sympathy...

wrote:

That would mean a file the size of an epic novel. I am not sure they
would bother to look into all that.. However, might be the only way to
go really.

I think that if I were in the same situation I would write to them
informing them that theyhave n days to make a final repair, and if they
fail to deliver in that time you will hire a contractor to do it and
seek to recover the cost via a small claims action.

Make sure you have good evidence (photos etc) of the state of the floor
as it is now, plus copies of any letters you have received from carpet
fitters etc that say the floor is unsuitable.

You can process a small claims action for amounts up to £5000 on the web
these days for a small fixed fee.



--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
You can process a small claims action for amounts up to £5000 on the web
these days for a small fixed fee.

The question is, can you do that in Scotland?

Chris Bacon wrote:

You can process a small claims action for amounts up to £5000 on the
web these days for a small fixed fee.


The question is, can you do that in Scotland?

Good question... I don't know... (I did not realise the OP was in Scotland)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

Thanks for all your help everyone. Looks like I got a major fight on
my hands and a lot to think about.

If you do have some option like the small claims procedure then it is
supposedly relatively hassle free. You submit your evidence in advance
in a pack, and it is up to the defendent to argue against. If they failt
to respond they lose by default.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message .com,
" writes
House insurance I am sure has legal cover.

However, we have already used the solicitor and Redrow just ignores
anything we send them. They know that we do not have enough time money
or sanity ( we have been living like this fighting for 16 months) to go
through that process.

They have us cornered.

A small claims procedure (if applicable in your case is not expensive,
or difficult)
--
Chris French

wrote:
Thanks for all your help everyone. Looks like I got a major fight on
my hands and a lot to think about.

kelly

if you choose that route. You havent told us enough about the
unevenness to know if this would be a dead easy job, whether it would
need door trimming or what.

NT

wrote:
House insurance I am sure has legal cover.

However, we have already used the solicitor and Redrow just ignores
anything we send them. They know that we do not have enough time money
or sanity ( we have been living like this fighting for 16 months) to go
through that process.

They have us cornered.


Unfortunately you (Like myself with builders previously) sound like you
fall in that bracket of it's too expensive to forget, but not expensive
enough for a solicitor to be able to make the claim & claim costs from
the vendor.

I suspect that you're going to have to doit yourself. But if you do,
make sure you keep the reciepts & take them to small claims to recover
the money. I wouldn't spend any more on solicitors. They're a complete &
utter waste of money (In this country anyway). Unless it's over 5000stg
in england, it just costs you money & the other size won't pay anyway
because they know it's more expensive for you to sue them than to not.

[I'm still bitter about my loft, but at least I know that I can do a
better job than the last bodgers. Which is pretty damning considering
they're supposed to be a specialist conversion company & I'm an IT
Consultant that sits in a chair all day playing with firewalls & load
balancers]

H