Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:55:03 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Depends on the rating of the cable and the max power consumption of
the light fittings..

Chris Bacon wrote:
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Be careful with fluorescents if using power tools, there is a possibility
they can 'flicker' at the same spped as a moving blade/cutter/whatever and
make it look almost stationary.

Dave

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

probably ok with standard cables, how many are we talking about. In a
garrage with power tools you must use HF balasts so they flash much faster
than mains frequency]

"david lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Chris Bacon wrote:
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Be careful with fluorescents if using power tools, there is a possibility
they can 'flicker' at the same spped as a moving blade/cutter/whatever and
make it look almost stationary.

Dave


another thing about fluorescent lights in a garage, when it is cold mine
takes a long time before it stays on steadily, in fact I have had to put
another light socket in with an ordinary bulb because of this. I have a
freezer in the garage and it is annoying trying to find something with the
light flickering .

Ron

James Salisbury wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

probably ok with standard cables, how many are we talking about.

There will be four, 2x5' slim tube ones, 1x4' slim tube one, and
an ancient "fast start" one with a fat 4' tube and a nice polished
aluminium reflector. Cable is 1mm in the garage, fed from a 2.5mm
feed from the house to a junction box, via a high(ish) level 4m
galvanised conduit.

In article ,
"Ron" writes:

another thing about fluorescent lights in a garage, when it is cold mine
takes a long time before it stays on steadily, in fact I have had to put
another light socket in with an ordinary bulb because of this. I have a
freezer in the garage and it is annoying trying to find something with the
light flickering .

With switch-start series ballasts, you probably want to avoid
anything over 5' in an unheated room for this reason. You could
try changing the starter which might improve things if it's
marginal, or try using a starter for a higher power tube.

Otherwise, swap out the ballast and starter for an electronic
control gear unit. My garage also has a freezer in it which
necessitates nipping in there for a few seconds, and I
have fitted instant start electronic control gear inside the
fittings (or most of them -- the last one's been waiting for
a round tuit for 5 years now;-).

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
Chris Bacon writes:

There will be four, 2x5' slim tube ones,

Tubes are 58W, assume 65W with control gear losses,
which is 520W total. This is going to be about 2.5A,
or 5A if they are cheap fittings with no power factor
correction capacitors.

1x4' slim tube one, and

Let's guess 45W with control gear losses, i.e. 0.2A,
or 0.4A is no power factor correction capacitor.

an ancient "fast start" one with a fat 4' tube and a nice polished
aluminium reflector.

Probably about the same again (not sure what type of control
gear you are referring to).

So worse case, it's 6A.

Cable is 1mm in the garage, fed from a 2.5mm
feed from the house to a junction box, via a high(ish) level 4m
galvanised conduit.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:19:07 GMT, "Ron" wrote:


"david lang" wrote in message
.uk...
Chris Bacon wrote:
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Be careful with fluorescents if using power tools, there is a possibility
they can 'flicker' at the same spped as a moving blade/cutter/whatever and
make it look almost stationary.

Dave


another thing about fluorescent lights in a garage, when it is cold mine
takes a long time before it stays on steadily, in fact I have had to put
another light socket in with an ordinary bulb because of this. I have a
freezer in the garage and it is annoying trying to find something with the
light flickering .

Ron



Both issues can easily be avoided by using fluorescent fittings
equipped with electronic ballasts.

- These make the light much less sensitive to low temperatures

- Flicker and the strobe effect with rotating machines is eliminated

I used fittings with polycarbonate covers. This also has the benefit
that they are resistant to an accidental whack with a length of wood.

For one fitting, I chose a maintained emergency type. This is useful
in the event of a sudden power failure. I really don't want to be
plunged into sudden darkness when operating a saw, planer or spindle
moulder.

I used 4 pairs of 1500mm double fittings and wired each on a separate
switch so that I can also control how much lighting I want according
to the task.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Just add up your tube wattage. 1 mm cable will supply more than 1 kW.

Andy Hall wrote:
For one fitting, I chose a maintained emergency type. This is useful
in the event of a sudden power failure. I really don't want to be
plunged into sudden darkness when operating a saw, planer or spindle
moulder.

Now that is one good idea. Not a nice thought.

Dave

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:10:08 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
For one fitting, I chose a maintained emergency type. This is useful
in the event of a sudden power failure. I really don't want to be
plunged into sudden darkness when operating a saw, planer or spindle
moulder.

Now that is one good idea. Not a nice thought.

Dave


If you have a lower amount of light than I have implemented - e.g. 2-4
tubes in a double garage rather 16, then a couple of the small 8W
ones, which are reasonably inexpensive would do this job well enough.

I had to upgrade a complete fitting because the drop in light level
when the power went off was too much and it took too long for eyes to
sdjust.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Chris Bacon wrote:

Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

sure. only thing to watch is you dont run the cable past the choke, or
it'll melt and short.


There will be four, 2x5' slim tube ones, 1x4' slim tube one, and
an ancient "fast start" one with a fat 4' tube

I hope its a double garage, thats well OTT for a standard 1 car job.
Fls are about 4x as efficient as filaments, so a 4' tube is roughly
equiv to a 150w bulb, a 5' roughly to 250w. So youve got the equivalent
of 800w! kinell. Why do people go so nuts with fl lighting levels?


NT

wrote:

equiv to a 150w bulb, a 5' roughly to 250w. So youve got the equivalent
of 800w! kinell. Why do people go so nuts with fl lighting levels?

Because if you are working in there you want lots of light coming from
many different directions. That way you are not always throwing your own
shadow of what you are working on.

(I find 4 x 65W 5' tubes ideal in my workshop (8 x 14') - I have them
switched in two banks of two, but always find all four to be a much
nicer light level for working in. Painting the walls and ceiling "off
white" helps a great deal as well).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

use electronic starters this will enable cold staarting down to -30 c
"Ron" wrote in message
o.uk...

"david lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Chris Bacon wrote:
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Be careful with fluorescents if using power tools, there is a possibility
they can 'flicker' at the same spped as a moving blade/cutter/whatever
and make it look almost stationary.

Dave


another thing about fluorescent lights in a garage, when it is cold mine
takes a long time before it stays on steadily, in fact I have had to put
another light socket in with an ordinary bulb because of this. I have a
freezer in the garage and it is annoying trying to find something with the
light flickering .

Ron

if you use electron ballasts instead of switch start ones you will overcome
this problem or use lead lag system
"david lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Chris Bacon wrote:
Is it OK to daisy-chain fluorescent lights - that is, have
one switch, and continue the cable from the first fitting
to subsequent ones?

Be careful with fluorescents if using power tools, there is a possibility
they can 'flicker' at the same spped as a moving blade/cutter/whatever and
make it look almost stationary.

Dave

hammy1967 wrote:
if you use electron ballasts instead of switch start ones you will overcome
this problem or use lead lag system

yes, a lead & lag ballast solves the rotataion strobing issue, and is
simple and cheap.

NT

hammy1967 wrote:
if you use electron ballasts instead of switch start ones you will overcome
this problem or use lead lag system

yes, a lead & lag ballast solves the rotataion strobing issue, and is
simple and cheap.

Another approach is simply to have a filament lamp over the power tool
- if youre aware of the potential issue this is easy to do.


NT

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

equiv to a 150w bulb, a 5' roughly to 250w. So youve got the equivalent
of 800w! kinell. Why do people go so nuts with fl lighting levels?

Because if you are working in there you want lots of light coming from
many different directions. That way you are not always throwing your own
shadow of what you are working on.

(I find 4 x 65W 5' tubes ideal in my workshop (8 x 14') - I have them
switched in two banks of two, but always find all four to be a much
nicer light level for working in. Painting the walls and ceiling "off
white" helps a great deal as well).

Maybe Im just odd, but I find lighting like that quite intolerable. 2x
4' tubes would be about right for that.

Fl lights should be pointed upwards, this avoids any shadow problems,
eliminates glare, gives even lighting and hides the ugly buggers. Shelf
fitting is good for garages, pointless bothering to make trough
fittings. The one thing you dont want to do is stick a bare light
pointing down, least not if you want half decent lighting.

Oh, and stay well away from cool white, 4500K and similar tubes.


NT

meow2222 wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
meow2222 wrote:
equiv to a 150w bulb, a 5' roughly to 250w. So youve got the equivalent
of 800w! kinell. Why do people go so nuts with fl lighting levels?

Because if you are working in there you want lots of light coming from
many different directions. That way you are not always throwing your own
shadow of what you are working on.

(I find 4 x 65W 5' tubes ideal in my workshop (8 x 14') - I have them
switched in two banks of two, but always find all four to be a much
nicer light level for working in. Painting the walls and ceiling "off
white" helps a great deal as well).

The inside of my "workshop" isa also painted white.

Fl lights should be pointed upwards,

If I "point mine upwards" (ooh-err!) I'll be illuminating a lot
of stuff stored in the foof, and not much else.


this avoids any shadow problems,
eliminates glare, gives even lighting and hides the ugly buggers. Shelf
fitting is good for garages, pointless bothering to make trough
fittings.

What's a shelf/trough fitting?


The one thing you dont want to do is stick a bare light
pointing down, least not if you want half decent lighting.

So you don't think much of the fitting above my bench that's
got a polished reflector pointing down, then!


###
___###___ - like that
/ O \

wrote:
I hope its a double garage, thats well OTT for a standard 1 car job.
Fls are about 4x as efficient as filaments, so a 4' tube is roughly
equiv to a 150w bulb, a 5' roughly to 250w. So youve got the
equivalent of 800w! kinell. Why do people go so nuts with fl lighting
levels?


In my 16' x 8' single garage workshop I have 5 x 100w bulbs above and two
60w anglepoise type lamps, one next to my drill press & one next to my RAS.

I don't think that's nuts, I just like to see what I'm doing!

Dave

wrote:

Maybe Im just odd, but I find lighting like that quite intolerable. 2x
4' tubes would be about right for that.

I have tried with two at a time, and while it is fine for "popping in"
to get something, it is just not nice to work in. I have two lights
mounted mid way along the ceiling:

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/lights.jpg

and two on the end walls:

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop...s/painting.jpg

The ones in the middle on their own are nearly good enough, but the
extra ones on the ends add a little extra warmth to the light and make
it more diffuse. They don't appreciably add to the overall light level
though (probably due to the eyes logarithmic response to light intensity).

The overall effect is just very even diffuse light that while bright, is
certainly not hard on the eyes (for me anyway):

http://www.internode.ltd.uk/workshop/images/bench2.jpg

fittings. The one thing you dont want to do is stick a bare light
pointing down, least not if you want half decent lighting.

I would agree with that - if it were not for the diffusers I would have
smashed a good number of tubes so far!! ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris Bacon wrote:
meow2222 wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
meow2222 wrote:

Fl lights should be pointed upwards,

If I "point mine upwards" (ooh-err!) I'll be illuminating a lot
of stuff stored in the foof, and not much else.

Yes, you do need a flat white foof.



What's a shelf/trough fitting?


|_*[]_ -- fl on its side on a high up shelf.
|
|
| -- wall
|
|


| * |
|_[]_| -- fl in trough.
|
|
| -- wall
|
|

Those are the 2 standard good practice methods of fitting fls. Both
provide a relatively even wash of light, no direct sight of tube so no
glare, and mechanical protection against breakage.



The one thing you dont want to do is stick a bare light
pointing down, least not if you want half decent lighting.

So you don't think much of the fitting above my bench that's
got a polished reflector pointing down, then!


###
___###___ - like that
/ O \


Nowt wrong with task lighting, but I'll bet you its exessively bright!
Those sort of fittings are not ideal for general lighting tho.


NT

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

Maybe Im just odd, but I find lighting like that quite intolerable. 2x
4' tubes would be about right for that.

I have tried with two at a time, and while it is fine for "popping in"
to get something, it is just not nice to work in.

For popping it to get something I used a single 2' light.


fittings. The one thing you dont want to do is stick a bare light
pointing down, least not if you want half decent lighting.

I would agree with that - if it were not for the diffusers I would have
smashed a good number of tubes so far!! ;-)

mumble mumble diffusers mumble mumble.

I think thats their only real use, breakage prevention. Install it the
right way up in the first place and theres no risk of that.


NT