"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Sam Nelson
wrote:
In article , Tim
writes:
In article , says...
If you drink cow's milk or eat cheese made with cows' milk, you're
implicitly condoning the slaughter of young male cattle for food,

If you say so. You could still be a vegetarian though.

Yes, but fairly pointlessly so, unless you're one of these people that
just
doesn't like meat.

Most people aren't saints despite having moral principles. You seem to
suggest
that people who occasionally drop litter in the streets might as well go
out
to rape and murder as well. We all sin; keeping sinning low is the next
best
idea to not sinning at all.

But eating meat per se isn't sinful. Unless we ate meat there'd be very few
ruminants around.

Mary

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:20:57 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Most use animal rennet which, to apurist, wouldn't be acceptable.

Depending, of course, on what degree or purist s/he is :-)

Mary


Quite a lot of beer and wine isn't vegetarian either since it is
cleared using Isinglass finings which come from the swimbladder of a
sturgeon.

I think most of us know that. What's your point? Do you want a list of
apparently 'vegetarian' items which contain animal by-products? You;d soon
get bored.

Mary

In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:
Most people aren't saints despite having moral principles. You seem to
suggest that people who occasionally drop litter in the streets might as
well go out to rape and murder as well. We all sin; keeping sinning low
is the next best idea to not sinning at all.

But eating meat per se isn't sinful.

It is to some people. In any case that was only a parable to show that there
can be gradations in ethical eating - it isn't an all or none affair.

Unless we ate meat there'd be very few ruminants around.

Which would reduce global warming, destruction of tropical forests, and
destructive mono-cultures. Sounds OK to me.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:20:57 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Most use animal rennet which, to apurist, wouldn't be acceptable.

Depending, of course, on what degree or purist s/he is :-)

Mary


Quite a lot of beer and wine isn't vegetarian either since it is
cleared using Isinglass finings which come from the swimbladder of a
sturgeon.

I think most of us know that. What's your point? Do you want a list of
apparently 'vegetarian' items which contain animal by-products? You;d soon
get bored.

Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when presented with
the facts of slaughtered animal products in jellies, yoghurts, Polo mints, &c.
The possible existence of gelatine in many restaurant sweets comes as a
profound shock to many waiters who frequently don't appreciate its genesis.
As you suggested earlier, it's possibly best to stick to DIY food; trusting a
restaurant to advise you that their apple pie is suitable for vegetarians is
probably not a good idea when they put a V next to salmon salad. ;-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell wrote:
Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when
presented with

ever-increasing amounts of incontinent rubbish spewed here that
has no relevance.

Mary Fisher wrote:

Mail gloves are produced for use by butchers ... :-))))))))))

They are also very good when you need to wire out some electronic
equipment racks that don't have rolled edges on the steel work!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:
Most people aren't saints despite having moral principles. You seem to
suggest that people who occasionally drop litter in the streets might
as
well go out to rape and murder as well. We all sin; keeping sinning low
is the next best idea to not sinning at all.

But eating meat per se isn't sinful.

It is to some people. In any case that was only a parable to show that
there
can be gradations in ethical eating - it isn't an all or none affair.

Quite. I wasn't challenging you :-)

Unless we ate meat there'd be very few ruminants around.

Which would reduce global warming, destruction of tropical forests, and
destructive mono-cultures. Sounds OK to me.

We'd reduce all that much more if we didn't have mankind.

Mary

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:20:57 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Most use animal rennet which, to apurist, wouldn't be acceptable.

Depending, of course, on what degree or purist s/he is :-)

Mary


Quite a lot of beer and wine isn't vegetarian either since it is
cleared using Isinglass finings which come from the swimbladder of a
sturgeon.

I think most of us know that. What's your point? Do you want a list of
apparently 'vegetarian' items which contain animal by-products? You'd
soon
get bored.

Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when presented
with
the facts of slaughtered animal products in jellies, yoghurts, Polo mints,
&c.

And in the pills they pop.

The possible existence of gelatine in many restaurant sweets comes as a
profound shock to many waiters who frequently don't appreciate its
genesis.

Some cooks too, I suspect. they buy gelatine in tins or packets, they
don'tmake it from scratch.

As you suggested earlier, it's possibly best to stick to DIY food;
trusting a
restaurant to advise you that their apple pie is suitable for vegetarians
is
probably not a good idea when they put a V next to salmon salad. ;-(

LOL!

Mary

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Mail gloves are produced for use by butchers ... :-))))))))))

They are also very good when you need to wire out some electronic
equipment racks that don't have rolled edges on the steel work!

Got me there, I admit that I've never done that.

Mary

In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when
presented with

ever-increasing amounts of incontinent rubbish spewed here that
has no relevance.

You would say that with a name like yours! ;-)

Criticism accepted (if not the tone) but I think Mary and I did attempt to
keep some aspect of DIY in there - and whatever the provocation your
description is crap ...

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Unless we ate meat there'd be very few ruminants around.

Which would reduce global warming, destruction of tropical forests, and
destructive mono-cultures. Sounds OK to me.

We'd reduce all that much more if we didn't have mankind.

A severe reduction in those numbers would make it reasonable again to import
some very interesting hardwoods for DIY use struggling to get back to
anything relevant to uk.d-i-y ;-)

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:
Unless we ate meat there'd be very few ruminants around.

Which would reduce global warming, destruction of tropical forests, and
destructive mono-cultures. Sounds OK to me.

We'd reduce all that much more if we didn't have mankind.

A severe reduction in those numbers would make it reasonable again to
import
some very interesting hardwoods for DIY use struggling to get back to
anything relevant to uk.d-i-y ;-)

er- the destruction of tropical forests was/is by Man, not by the ruminants.
The 'demand' for beef reared on the cleared ground isn't the fault of the
ruminants, it's by Man.

Destructive mono-cultures aren't just about feeding ruminants, they have all
sorts of other end-products.

Global warming is a result, largely, of using powered tools and vehicles.

The answer? DIY :-)

Get out a hand saw, use legs instead of a car. Most carjounreys are for very
short journeys which could be walked.

Yes, I know that a hand saw uses steel which demands energy to make it but
that energy is a one-off use.

Et cetera.

Mary

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when
presented with

ever-increasing amounts of incontinent rubbish spewed here that
has no relevance.

You would say that with a name like yours! ;-)

Criticism accepted (if not the tone) but I think Mary and I did attempt to
keep some aspect of DIY in there

And reading it is voluntary.

- and whatever the provocation your
description is crap ...

He's been looking at a dictionary again.

Funny, I'd forgotten about this poster, he leads a very lonely life in my
kf. He should do the same with us if he doesn't like what we have to say.

It's quite easy, you can do it yourself ...

Mary

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John and Mary,

May I suggest that you continue this off-group?

Top-posted by the Original Poster!
Pearson

[ .. then deleted ..]

In article , Mary Fisher
wrote:

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote:
Unless we ate meat there'd be very few ruminants around.

Which would reduce global warming, destruction of tropical forests,
and destructive mono-cultures. Sounds OK to me.

We'd reduce all that much more if we didn't have mankind.

A severe reduction in those numbers would make it reasonable again to
import some very interesting hardwoods for DIY use struggling to get
back to anything relevant to uk.d-i-y ;-)

er- the destruction of tropical forests was/is by Man, not by the
ruminants. The 'demand' for beef reared on the cleared ground isn't the
fault of the ruminants, it's by Man.

Yes. But the complaint was that by advocating vegetarianism there would be
fewer ruminants.

Destructive mono-cultures aren't just about feeding ruminants, they have
all sorts of other end-products.

Yes.

Global warming is a result, largely, of using powered tools and vehicles.

So you too are working hard to make this all relevant! ;-)

The answer? DIY :-)

Get out a hand saw, use legs instead of a car. Most carjounreys are for
very short journeys which could be walked.

Yes, I know that a hand saw uses steel which demands energy to make it but
that energy is a one-off use.

Can we also advocate long-lasting hand-tools in place of the 'use once for a
job' power tools that I've seen proposed here recently?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Mary Fisher wrote:

Got me there, I admit that I've never done that.

Same applies to the bargain basement 12 quid computer cases - all
stamped sheet steel with no deburring. Work on one of those without
gloves for a few mins and you will be leaking claret all over the place!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...

So you too are working hard to make this all relevant! ;-)

The answer? DIY :-)

Get out a hand saw, use legs instead of a car. Most car journeys are for
very short journeys which could be walked.

Yes, I know that a hand saw uses steel which demands energy to make it
but
that energy is a one-off use.

Can we also advocate long-lasting hand-tools in place of the 'use once for
a
job' power tools that I've seen proposed here recently?

Will anyone takeany notice? Buying cheaply and throwing away is universal,
sadly, in every sphere. There are exceptions to every rule, I'm pleased to
say.

Mary

John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Got me there, I admit that I've never done that.

Same applies to the bargain basement 12 quid computer cases - all stamped
sheet steel with no deburring. Work on one of those without gloves for a
few mins and you will be leaking claret all over the place!

Never done that either. I'm not one to try to save a penny.

I'd rather have real claret, sadly I don't drink enough for my veins to run
with it :-)

It's frightfully hot and close tonight, I think I'll go to bed. I wish it
would rain and clean the air.

Mary

In article , Chris Bacon
wrote:

John Cartmell wrote:
Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when
presented with

ever-increasing amounts of incontinent rubbish spewed here that
has no relevance.

Except to most of the established contributers to the group. If you don't
like it, sling your hook elsewhere.

--
AJL

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:

Probably not. A good number of people get rather animated when
presented with

ever-increasing amounts of incontinent rubbish spewed here that
has no relevance.

Except to most of the established contributers to the group. If
you don't like it, sling your hook elsewhere.

Yeah, right - I'm an "established contributor", since '97?
'98? You have been posting only a year or two, so mine's
bigger than yours, got it? Do you really want to play that
stupid game? Bring on the "inclusive we"!

Do you like dIMM's contributions? Adverts? If not, why put
up with non-contributions such as the one that I complained
about? Another poster suggested that e-mail is a better
medium for the sort of thing, as well. Yes! Will it happen?
No, because wherever MF goes there's a sudden increase in
OT rubbish posted, and sycophantic wibblers to make more
increase. A few OT/chatty postings are not objectionable -
however, when the crap:useful ratio is about 3000:1, then
IMO that is.

Mary Fisher wrote:

It's frightfully hot and close tonight, I think I'll go to bed.

That was the last thing on my mind last night. The thought of anything
covering me was out of the question.

Pity really, it was our 35th wedding anniversary.

Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

It's frightfully hot and close tonight, I think I'll go to bed.

That was the last thing on my mind last night. The thought of anything
covering me was out of the question.

Pity really, it was our 35th wedding anniversary.

Well done.

Been there, ten years ago :-)

It gets even better!

Mary

Dave