"Geoffrey" wrote in message
...

You don't know much about pigeons do you?

I do, as it happens.

If a pigeon has no
experience of a place it can't deliberately find it. Homing pigeons
have to be trained to return.

They don't have to have experience of the route.

I'd stick to bees if I were you.

I gave them up. I now keep birds.

Mary

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:32 +0100, Adrian C wrote:


What's living, mutated & chemical inside the town pigeon is a bit of a
worry. If they were generally acknowledged as safe to eat, the streets
of London would be overrun with 'Kentucky Fried Pigeon' shops.


Indeed. If you have ever "peeled" a pigeon (preferably a dead one) to
extract the breasts

I have gutted many.

then you will know that you often end up getting
some of the stuff that was in the crop onto the flesh.

Not if you're careful. I've gutted birds of very many kinds and haven't had
any contamination.

I don't want
bits of McDonalds nor part digested dog ends on my fried pigeon! :-)

I don't want McDs in any form but many people seem to think it's edible,
even desirable.

Never seen dogends in a crop though.

Frying isn't the best way to cook pigeon breast unless it's young. The
breast meat gets tough from all the flying and is best cooked very slowly.
Samewith puffin and rook.

Mary


Mr F.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:13:25 GMT, dave wrote:


I 'ate pigeons... opps, did I say that already :-) Anyway, does that make me
racist?
Not if you hate all of them. If you hate only black ones or only white
ones, then you're a racist.

Mr F.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:34:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Geoffrey" wrote in message
.. .

You don't know much about pigeons do you?

I do, as it happens.

If a pigeon has no
experience of a place it can't deliberately find it. Homing pigeons
have to be trained to return.

They don't have to have experience of the route.

Neither do I when I call a cab or ask directions - and I don't have be
trained to do it either.


I'd stick to bees if I were you.

I gave them up. I now keep birds.


That's very cruel

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:32 +0100, Adrian C wrote:


snip

Frying isn't the best way to cook pigeon breast unless it's young. The
breast meat gets tough from all the flying and is best cooked very slowly.
Samewith puffin and rook.

Mary


Mr F.




I hate puffins!

ETV

"Vera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:34:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Geoffrey" wrote in message
. ..

You don't know much about pigeons do you?

I do, as it happens.

If a pigeon has no
experience of a place it can't deliberately find it. Homing pigeons
have to be trained to return.

They don't have to have experience of the route.

Neither do I when I call a cab or ask directions - and I don't have be
trained to do it either.

Oh yes you do. Think about it.


I'd stick to bees if I were you.

I gave them up. I now keep birds.


That's very cruel

They do me no harm at all.

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:13:25 GMT, dave wrote:


I 'ate pigeons... opps, did I say that already :-) Anyway, does that make
me
racist?
Not if you hate all of them. If you hate only black ones or only white
ones, then you're a racist.

Colour isn't race.

I don't know what race is any more but it's not colour.

Mary

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:33:44 +0100, "Eric The Viking"
wrote:

I hate puffins!

Puffin is quite often served as a starter in restaurants in Iceland.
When I was there a few years back it was around 20 quid a go though so
I decided not to try it

Rook reminds me of a two ronnies sketch. I guess it probably tastes
fine though :-)

Mr F.

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303854e.0@entanet...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:32 +0100, Adrian C wrote:


snip

Frying isn't the best way to cook pigeon breast unless it's young. The
breast meat gets tough from all the flying and is best cooked very
slowly. Samewith puffin and rook.

Mary


Mr F.




I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:33:44 +0100, "Eric The Viking"
wrote:

I hate puffins!

Puffin is quite often served as a starter in restaurants in Iceland.
When I was there a few years back it was around 20 quid a go though so
I decided not to try it

Good Heavens! It wasn't as much as that when we had it - two visits running.
1998 and 2000. Served in a plum sauce drool it would have been worth every
penny of £20. It's a pity you didn't try it.

Rook reminds me of a two ronnies sketch. I guess it probably tastes
fine though :-)

It does.

Mary

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:17:07 +0000, Vera wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:24:54 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



You've seen the size of pigeon's brain then?

Or - more relevantly - compared it, size for size, with a human brain?

A human brain is about 1000 times the size of a pigeon brain. A magpie
brain is about 5 times the size of a pigeon brain.

An Arab can live for a whole year on one grain of rice.

A Whale is not a fish, it's an insect.

I shouldn't have mentioned insects, should I, she'll be on about the magic
of wasps next.

Killfiles are our friends (but not necessarily four legged...)

Cheers,

Phil Young

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:18:10 +0100, Mr Fizzion wrote:



Personally I hate them and their stupid noises. There are two types you
are likely to see however: The common "town pigeon" (Columba livia) which
doesn't have the white band round its neck, and the Wood Pigeon (Columba
palumbus) which does have the white band. I'm not too sure if it's a good
idea to eat town pigeons.

Wood pigeons are more likely what you get "in suburbia".

You can't shoot pigeons without a good reason. The general license issued
each year by defra under the wildlife and countryside act 1981 lists these
reason for killing these birds:

Preventing the spread of disease
Preventing serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops,
vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters.

"I hate them" or "they're tasty" is unfortunately not enough.

Anyway, if pigeons are bad, magpies are a lot worse!

Oh and grey squirrels are quite tasty.

Mr F.

What about if you claim that you thought they might have been a suicide
bomber ?

Cheers,

Phil Young

"Phil Young" wrote in message
news

Killfiles are our friends (but not necessarily four legged...)

He was right.

Cheers,

Phil Young

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:32 +0100, Adrian C wrote:

Mary Fisher wrote:

... I'm not too
sure if it's a good idea to eat town pigeons.

They're descended from rock doves which were bred for food - in dovecotes.
Why wouldn't be a good idea to eat them?

What's living, mutated & chemical inside the town pigeon is a bit of a
worry. If they were generally acknowledged as safe to eat, the streets
of London would be overrun with 'Kentucky Fried Pigeon' shops.

They are.


And I'd be a customer, especially after the Pub :-)

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303854e.0@entanet...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:33:32 +0100, Adrian C wrote:


snip

Frying isn't the best way to cook pigeon breast unless it's young. The
breast meat gets tough from all the flying and is best cooked very
slowly. Samewith puffin and rook.

Mary


Mr F.




I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

ETV

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:42:27 GMT, Phil Young
wrote:

What about if you claim that you thought they might have been a suicide
bomber ?

That's ok as long as you use 5 bullets to kill it while holding it
down.

Probably a good thing that critical masses for fission reactions are
so high. Imagine a pigeon armed with a small nuclear warhead! :-)

Mr F.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:13:54 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:33:44 +0100, "Eric The Viking"
wrote:

I hate puffins!

Puffin is quite often served as a starter in restaurants in Iceland.
When I was there a few years back it was around 20 quid a go though so
I decided not to try it

Good Heavens! It wasn't as much as that when we had it - two visits running.
1998 and 2000. Served in a plum sauce drool it would have been worth every
penny of £20. It's a pity you didn't try it.

Rook reminds me of a two ronnies sketch. I guess it probably tastes
fine though :-)

It does.

Mary



Whale's nice too....


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:13:54 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:33:44 +0100, "Eric The Viking"
wrote:

I hate puffins!

Puffin is quite often served as a starter in restaurants in Iceland.
When I was there a few years back it was around 20 quid a go though so
I decided not to try it

Good Heavens! It wasn't as much as that when we had it - two visits
running.
1998 and 2000. Served in a plum sauce drool it would have been worth
every
penny of £20. It's a pity you didn't try it.

Rook reminds me of a two ronnies sketch. I guess it probably tastes
fine though :-)

It does.

Mary



Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary


--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:43039979.0@entanet...


I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

It's a deal.

Spouse won't have sardines in the house!

er- do puffins eat sardines?

Mary

ETV




Not if you get them with a head shot ;-)

ETV

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:43039979.0@entanet...


I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

It's a deal.

Spouse won't have sardines in the house!

er- do puffins eat sardines?

Mary

ETV

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:42:31 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message




Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary

Snoek's a fish though?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:42:31 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message




Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary

Snoek's a fish though?

It was whale.

In those days.

Mary




Must be evolution at work...

ETV

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:42:31 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message




Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary

Snoek's a fish though?

It was whale.

In those days.

Mary

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:55:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:43039979.0@entanet...


I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

It's a deal.

Spouse won't have sardines in the house!

He doesn't know what he's missing. Tell him that oily fish is good
for him.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:14:55 +0100, Mr Fizzion wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:42:27 GMT, Phil Young
wrote:

What about if you claim that you thought they might have been a suicide
bomber ?

That's ok as long as you use 5 bullets to kill it while holding it down.

Probably a good thing that critical masses for fission reactions are so
high. Imagine a pigeon armed with a small nuclear warhead! :-)

Mr F.

They're not very intelligent, they'd probably go for the dirty bomb
instead. Since they're dirty *******s anyway.

Lack of opposable thumbs might let them down as well.

I had occasion the see some Ring-tailed lemurs close up a few years ago
(in Devon, not Madagascar). Can't remember if they had thumbs as such, but
I think they would probably be able to use a tin opener. If they managed
to teach that to cats, then our usefulness would be at an end. Don't know
what they taste like though....

Cheers,

Phil Young

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303a59e.0@entanet...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:43039979.0@entanet...


I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

It's a deal.

Spouse won't have sardines in the house!

er- do puffins eat sardines?

Mary

ETV




Not if you get them with a head shot ;-)

I imagine they'd be a good target but I can't hit anything moving.

Mary

ETV

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:55:05 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:43039979.0@entanet...


I hate puffins!

You know the answer. Shoot 'em, you have a bow. I'll take them off your
hands.

Mary the Occasional Viking.

ETV




Ok, but I'm keeping any sardines that they drop ;-)

It's a deal.

Spouse won't have sardines in the house!

He doesn't know what he's missing. Tell him that oily fish is good
for him.

He's fed up of hearing that! He vomits at the thought - honestly.

I love them, and herrings, kippers, mackerel etc. It took me years of
devious persuasion to get him to eat salmon. And don't mention shellfish ...

sigh

At least he will now eat pork, rabbit, garlic, spinach and all kinds of
game. He wouldn't when I first knew him. Still can't abide liver but will
eat heart, kidneys etc.

I can't be too pushy.

chortle

Mary





--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303a798.0@entanet...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:42:31 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message




Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary

Snoek's a fish though?

It was whale.

In those days.

Mary




Must be evolution at work...

No, it was called snoek to try to fool us that we weren't eating whale,
allegedly.

Trouble is, people at least in the north pronounced it 'snook', which is the
noise you make when you force air up through your nose to dislodge snot and
it made the product unpopular ...

But it was wartime, most things were rationed and we were hungry. You
wouldn't believe what we ate - unless you admit to being old of course :-)

Mary

ETV

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303a798.0@entanet...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:42:31 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message




Whale's nice too....

I haven't had any since snoek. Had shark ...

Mary

Snoek's a fish though?

It was whale.

In those days.

Mary




Must be evolution at work...

No, it was called snoek to try to fool us that we weren't eating whale,
allegedly.

Trouble is, people at least in the north pronounced it 'snook', which is
the noise you make when you force air up through your nose to dislodge
snot and it made the product unpopular ...

But it was wartime, most things were rationed and we were hungry. You
wouldn't believe what we ate - unless you admit to being old of course :-)

Mary

ETV




I see - and no-one would admit to being old enough to witness evolution at
work ;-)

ETV

Mr Fizzion wrote:
Personally I hate them and their stupid noises. There are two types
you are likely to see however: The common "town pigeon" (Columba
livia) which doesn't have the white band round its neck, and the Wood
Pigeon (Columba palumbus) which does have the white band.

Ah. Well round here we get the third type, Collared Doves. *******s!

I just wish they could play a different tune occasionally, they are so
monotonotonotonotonous.

Alan

--
Warning! - This newsgroup may contain nuts....

Mary, just out of curiousity, what do you object to about people
dropping cigarette ash out of a car window? I can understand object to
someone dropping the actuall cigarette end or other litter, but can't
understand the objection to the ash...

Only reason I ask is that I'm a smoker and do often flick the ash of my
cigarettes out of the window (not the butts mind) under the assumption
that there was nothing in this action that could cause offense...

Thanks for any response.

Seri

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:07:50 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:




No, it was called snoek to try to fool us that we weren't eating whale,
allegedly.

Trouble is, people at least in the north pronounced it 'snook', which is the
noise you make when you force air up through your nose to dislodge snot and
it made the product unpopular ...

But it was wartime, most things were rationed and we were hungry. You
wouldn't believe what we ate - unless you admit to being old of course :-)

Mary


My mother has mentioned it before now - I'll have to ask her.

It does seem unlikely that a new fish was discovered though.

Thinking that this sounds like a Dutch word, I did some searching and
it appears that it is a Pike.

http://home.hccnet.nl/g.graag/InfoSnoek.htm


Also, whale meat, at least when cooked, has more of the texture and
taste character of meat, rather than fish.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Seri" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mary, just out of curiousity, what do you object to about people
dropping cigarette ash out of a car window? I can understand object to
someone dropping the actuall cigarette end or other litter, but can't
understand the objection to the ash...

Only reason I ask is that I'm a smoker and do often flick the ash of my
cigarettes out of the window (not the butts mind) under the assumption
that there was nothing in this action that could cause offense...

Thanks for any response.

Seri

It's litter. Do you drop it on your floor in your house?

Mary

"Eric The Viking" wrote in message
news:4303bd6e.0@entanet...


Must be evolution at work...

No, it was called snoek to try to fool us that we weren't eating whale,
allegedly.

Trouble is, people at least in the north pronounced it 'snook', which is
the noise you make when you force air up through your nose to dislodge
snot and it made the product unpopular ...

But it was wartime, most things were rationed and we were hungry. You
wouldn't believe what we ate - unless you admit to being old of course
:-)

Mary

ETV




I see - and no-one would admit to being old enough to witness evolution at
work ;-)

I'm working on it ... be warned :-)

Mary

ETV

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:07:50 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:




No, it was called snoek to try to fool us that we weren't eating whale,
allegedly.

Trouble is, people at least in the north pronounced it 'snook', which is
the
noise you make when you force air up through your nose to dislodge snot
and
it made the product unpopular ...

But it was wartime, most things were rationed and we were hungry. You
wouldn't believe what we ate - unless you admit to being old of course :-)

Mary


My mother has mentioned it before now - I'll have to ask her.

It does seem unlikely that a new fish was discovered though.

Thinking that this sounds like a Dutch word, I did some searching and
it appears that it is a Pike.

Oh I know well what snoek is, I'm saying that in the 1940s people were very
suspicious of a 'new' product which was - I don't like to say "forced" on us
but appeared - and because of food shortages we ate it. I don't remember
anyone enjoying it and the consensus was that it was whale. That was
reported in the papers too but you know my opinion of those. I could never
understand why whale was so undesirable anyway. But I didn't like 'snoek'.
Mind you, I didn't like cow heel either but when you're hungry

aside a good dose of hunger would do no amount of good to today's picky
children.


Also, whale meat, at least when cooked, has more of the texture and
taste character of meat, rather than fish.

This stuff did. But pike caught in British waters is meat-textured and not
fishy tasting. Well, that which has been caught by an angler friend and
given to us has been. I'll have it any time, it's delicious and not at all
like the wartime stuff we had.

Yes, those fish WERE pike, I was given them whole, not in fillets or steaks.
You can't mistake a pike for anything else!

Mary
--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Alan Vann" wrote in message
...
Mr Fizzion wrote:
Personally I hate them and their stupid noises. There are two types
you are likely to see however: The common "town pigeon" (Columba
livia) which doesn't have the white band round its neck, and the Wood
Pigeon (Columba palumbus) which does have the white band.

Ah. Well round here we get the third type, Collared Doves. *******s!

I just wish they could play a different tune occasionally, they are so
monotonotonotonotonous.

Same with most of the animals and machines we live with.

"dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:29:10 +0100, "Mary Fisher"

wrote:


"Mr Fizzion" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:21:36 GMT, dave wrote:

Does anyone hate pigeons more that I do? Impossible! Their stupid cooing
sounds,

Personally I hate them and their stupid noises.

Why are their noises 'stupid'?

Late folowup but... I don't think you are fully in tune with the spirit of
this
posting :-) but if you must take every word literally how about this:

One or two - or ten calls wouldn't be too bad. But often they go on and on
dozens of times. It's the repetitiveness and the distance it travels I
don't
like. They blow so hard sometimes the sound goes into another mode of
resonance.
Go on, tell me they do that by intelligence :-) I guess that's the limit
of
their repertoire.

Yes it is, that doesn'tmake them stupid.

This pausity

paucity

of melodic sound is another indicator of their
stupidity.

Explain why if you want to persuade me.

Yes I know these factors are there for obvious purposes - but I
haven't got to like it. Now take a blackbird. In the evening when it's
doing it
banal territorial din it's horrible.

Why don't you live somewhere where there are no birds?

However take a sunny afternoon and just
listen to those beautiful sounds from the same bird and the melodies it
makes.
Pretty damn good I think.

It's the same noise.

Crows and Magpies are as equally horrible as pigeons, sound-wise - but not
as
disgusting in their habits.

er - why?

And as to their navigational abilities, do you think they conciously fly
along
fully aware of what they are doing! Of course not, it's a programmed
reaction -
just like breathing. It is an amazing ability but don't attribute it to
their
intelligence for goodness sake.

What evidence can you provide of your intelligence versus programmed
reactions?

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

Can you navigate back to your house if let loose hundreds of miles away
with no previous experience?

Of course I *can*. North is easily found and folowed by a number of
methods.


You're using previous experience as well as artificial aids. A pigeon
doesn't even need a stick.

Which accurately encapsulates my point. You are clearly confusing
instinctive abilities with intellect, learning ability and resourcefulness.

Since the Renaissance?

Absolutely. In the Dark Ages, virtually all technical knowledge went
down the drain. The Mayan, Inca and Egyptian civilizations all lost the
vast majority, if not all, of their knowledge base. While the Romans
introduced many innovations to Europe, it took a remarkably short time
for all of that to collapse. The Renaissance vas a very accurate term
for the period. Technology was back to square one. Various inventions
were catalytic to a positive feedback loop of invention and learning.

I think your history of humankind is as weak as your natural history.

While the majority of mt interest is the 20c, of which I have an entire
8' bookcase of books, lovingly compiled over more than 20 years, some
very, very rare, I also dabble further back than that.



John Schmitt

in 439066 20050818 092535 "Mary Fisher" wrote:
"Alan Vann" wrote in message
...
Mr Fizzion wrote:
Personally I hate them and their stupid noises. There are two types
you are likely to see however: The common "town pigeon" (Columba
livia) which doesn't have the white band round its neck, and the Wood
Pigeon (Columba palumbus) which does have the white band.

Ah. Well round here we get the third type, Collared Doves. *******s!

I just wish they could play a different tune occasionally, they are so
monotonotonotonotonous.

Same with most of the animals and machines we live with.

I prefer absolutely any natural sounds to the noise emanating from my
neighbour's radio.

"John Schmitt" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Can you navigate back to your house if let loose hundreds of miles away
with no previous experience?

Of course I *can*. North is easily found and folowed by a number of
methods.


You're using previous experience as well as artificial aids. A pigeon
doesn't even need a stick.

Which accurately encapsulates my point. You are clearly confusing
instinctive abilities with intellect, learning ability and
resourcefulness.

Ooooooooooooooo!

Since the Renaissance?

Absolutely. In the Dark Ages, virtually all technical knowledge went down
the drain. The Mayan, Inca and Egyptian civilizations all lost the vast
majority, if not all, of their knowledge base. While the Romans introduced
many innovations to Europe, it took a remarkably short time for all of
that to collapse. The Renaissance vas a very accurate term for the period.
Technology was back to square one. Various inventions were catalytic to a
positive feedback loop of invention and learning.

Oh come on! You originally mentioned mud huts and conveniently deleted it in
this reply. We weren't living in those in the Middle Ages in this country
(although what's wrong with them I don't know).

I know, I wast he-)

I think your history of humankind is as weak as your natural history.

While the majority of mt interest is the 20c, of which I have an entire 8'
bookcase of books, lovingly compiled over more than 20 years, some very,
very rare, I also dabble further back than that.

My pre- C20th books take up far more room than that but so what? They're
mostly of the social history of these islands from Roman to1485 (guess where
we'll be this weekend!) I don't dabble.

Except on this ng:-)

Mary



John Schmitt