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Central heating query
Hi there.
Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? Regards Matt |
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On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote:
Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works There are two pumps? 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch? This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up. Have you checked that at the boiler end? So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could prevent the boiler from firing, If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the cost of repair. It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have to pay for a fix first. You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#3
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
MP wrote: Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? Regards Matt What make and model of boiler it is? Does it have an overheat cutout which may need resetting? Is it getting a switched live demand signal from the control system? Whatever else you do *don't* use BG's service contract. In any case, AIUI, they will only take on a *working* system - and will insist on fixing the current problem at your expense before starting the contract. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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Hi Andy
Thanks for your comeback. 2 pumps -- Well there's the system pump upstairs and I thought there was a pump in the boiler itself (I thought there was!). The divertervalve I assume is the T-piece 3-way switch you talk of. I know the motor works, but how would I test the microswitches? The boiler (not a combi boiler just a gas fired one) is completely closed off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which is why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making it usual noise. The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before). Thanks for your points about BG, I'll steer clear. Regards Matt "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote: Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works There are two pumps? 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch? This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up. Have you checked that at the boiler end? So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could prevent the boiler from firing, If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the cost of repair. It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have to pay for a fix first. You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which
is why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making it usual noise. That is probably the fan. The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before). Does the flame ignite? Christian. |
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Hi Andy
Tested the micro-switches and they work fine. "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote: Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works There are two pumps? 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch? This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up. Have you checked that at the boiler end? So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could prevent the boiler from firing, If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the cost of repair. It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have to pay for a fix first. You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Hi Christian - no there's no flame.
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message . net... off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which is why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making it usual noise. That is probably the fan. The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before). Does the flame ignite? Christian. |
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On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:44:54 +0100, "MP" wrote:
Hi Andy Thanks for your comeback. 2 pumps -- Well there's the system pump upstairs and I thought there was a pump in the boiler itself (I thought there was!). The divertervalve I assume is the T-piece 3-way switch you talk of. I know the motor works, but how would I test the microswitches? The boiler (not a combi boiler just a gas fired one) is completely closed off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which is why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making it usual noise. This is probably a fan, which is used to provide combustion air and clear the fumes from the boiler. If this is starting when the valve opens and thermostats indicate heat is needed it means that the switched live is OK. The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before). It could be the ignition in that case, or it could be the gas valve or even an overheat sensor. Thanks for your points about BG, I'll steer clear. I would suggest finding a CORGI to look at it. The spares that could be involved are relatively expensive (a few tens of pounds) and you could end up going down the path of trying something only to find it's something else. Then you would have spent more than a service call. To go further, you really would need the service manual and at least a multimeter to determine where the problem is. You could go that route, but you do need to have an understanding of the boiler and what is going on in that case. Regards Matt "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote: Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works There are two pumps? 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch? This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up. Have you checked that at the boiler end? So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler, right?? It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could prevent the boiler from firing, If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services?? With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the cost of repair. It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have to pay for a fix first. You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#9
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Andy Hall wrote in
: It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have to pay for a fix first. IME they were happy to take on a system that was faulty. Called them out a few weeks later and they fixed it FOC (new boiler fan, new valves). £120 well spent, especially as later that same year my thermostat died, too... -- Rich P Replace .invalid with .com to reply. |
#10
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"MP" wrote in
: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. What make/model of boiler is it? Many boilers have an electric spark ignition. There is a safety cutout which may need resetting, often by a button behind a hole in the bottom of the boiler. Alternatively older boilers have pilot lights - a small flame that needs to be running continuously. This may have gone out for some reason (maybe gas has been turned off, perhaps a draught) and will need relighting. Usually there will be instructions on a boiler (behind a door or cover if there is one.) You'll see probably three buttons, one for gas on, one for spark, and another for cut out. Usually this requires you to hold the gas on button, press the spark so that the pilot lights, then hold the gas on for a minute or two. But tell us what boiler you have. Rich -- Rich P Replace .invalid with .com to reply. |
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Hi Christian - no there's no flame.
If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. |
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Hi Richard -
it's an Orion Fanflare ## Si. The ## is either 30, 40, 50 or 60. It doesn't state which one. "Richard Polhill" wrote in message ... "MP" wrote in : Hi Christian - no there's no flame. What make/model of boiler is it? Many boilers have an electric spark ignition. There is a safety cutout which may need resetting, often by a button behind a hole in the bottom of the boiler. Alternatively older boilers have pilot lights - a small flame that needs to be running continuously. This may have gone out for some reason (maybe gas has been turned off, perhaps a draught) and will need relighting. Usually there will be instructions on a boiler (behind a door or cover if there is one.) You'll see probably three buttons, one for gas on, one for spark, and another for cut out. Usually this requires you to hold the gas on button, press the spark so that the pilot lights, then hold the gas on for a minute or two. But tell us what boiler you have. Rich -- Rich P Replace .invalid with .com to reply. |
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In message , MP
writes Hi there. Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!! What I know is :- 1. The boiler pump works 2. The system pump works 3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor). Having read the other posts now and established what boiler it is really you need a meter to test for mains I think that your boiler uses a 309S376 pcb The pins on the pcb are marked as to their function and you should be able to diagnose a fair bit from testing the voltages on the various pins First check that there is mains going onto the pcb, if so, pull the connector off which is marked O/H and test whether it is a short circuit, if not your overheat stat has tripped If it is a short circuit, then check that you have 240 volts to the fan (which you should if the o/h stat is OK). If you do, check to see if the fan is rotating, if not, then either the air pressure switch contract resistance has gone high or the fan is knackered. Remove the connector and check to see if the fan is open circuit or has a finite resistance (I think 50-100 ohms). Does the fan rotate freely or is it stiff ? That's enough to get you started -- geoff |
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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In message , Set Square
writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Christian McArdle wrote: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it -- geoff |
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There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running
and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so. Christian. |
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote: In message , Set Square writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Christian McArdle wrote: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the fan *is* running. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
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In message , Christian
McArdle writes There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so. I don't see where he said the fan was running, only that there was a noise which someone (you ?) said was the fan -- geoff |
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote: In message , Christian McArdle writes There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so. I don't see where he said the fan was running, only that there was a noise which someone (you ?) said was the fan In his post of 3.44pm yesterday, the OP said, " . . and the outside vent is making it usual noise." - which I (rightly or wrongly) took as an indication that that fan was probably running. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#20
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hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the
PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. thanks for your help "Set Square" wrote in message ... In an earlier contribution to this discussion, raden wrote: In message , Set Square writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Christian McArdle wrote: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the fan *is* running. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#21
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
mp wrote: hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. I bet Geoff could have supplied a board for a lot less than that. It was probably just a dry joint anyway - which 5 minutes with a soldering iron could possibly have fixed. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. |
#22
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In message , mp
writes hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. You'd better look at my website then www.cetltd.com thanks for your help "Set Square" wrote in message ... In an earlier contribution to this discussion, raden wrote: In message , Set Square writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Christian McArdle wrote: Hi Christian - no there's no flame. If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the following: 1. Gas valve. 2. Ignitor. 3. Gas supply 4. PCB. 5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also). Christian. There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first. It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the fan *is* running. -- Cheers, Set Square ______ Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid. -- geoff |
#23
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In message , Set Square
writes In an earlier contribution to this discussion, mp wrote: hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. I bet Geoff could have supplied a board for a lot less than that. It was probably just a dry joint anyway - which 5 minutes with a soldering iron could possibly have fixed. 30 quid + + -- geoff |
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On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:23:05 +0100, "mp" wrote:
hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. thanks for your help Mmmmmm...... Also £150. Then £150 next year, and the year after, and the year after...... Then when it finally does break, twice market price for a new boiler..... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#25
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:23:05 +0100, "mp" wrote: hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme. thanks for your help Mmmmmm...... Also £150. Which is daylight robbery for a pcb with a couple of dozen components on I bought a computer motherboard new for £26 + a few months ago OK there's the economies of scale, but ... -- geoff |
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