Central heating query
 

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works
3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler,
right??

If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

Regards

Matt

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote:

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works

There are two pumps?


3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch?
This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up.
Have you checked that at the boiler end?


So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the boiler,
right??

It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't
say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the
problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others
have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could
prevent the boiler from firing,



If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the
cost of repair.

It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is
poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a
system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have
to pay for a fix first.

You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
MP wrote:

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works
3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the
boiler, right??

If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

Regards

Matt

What make and model of boiler it is? Does it have an overheat cutout which
may need resetting? Is it getting a switched live demand signal from the
control system?

Whatever else you do *don't* use BG's service contract. In any case, AIUI,
they will only take on a *working* system - and will insist on fixing the
current problem at your expense before starting the contract.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Hi Andy

Thanks for your comeback.

2 pumps --

Well there's the system pump upstairs and I thought there was a pump in the
boiler itself (I thought there was!).

The divertervalve I assume is the T-piece 3-way switch you talk of. I know
the motor works, but how would I test the microswitches?
The boiler (not a combi boiler just a gas fired one) is completely closed
off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which is
why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making
it usual noise.

The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even
with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic
ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before).

Thanks for your points about BG, I'll steer clear.

Regards

Matt


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote:

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works

There are two pumps?


3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch?
This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up.
Have you checked that at the boiler end?


So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the
boiler,
right??

It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't
say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the
problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others
have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could
prevent the boiler from firing,



If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the
cost of repair.

It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is
poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a
system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have
to pay for a fix first.

You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job.




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which
is
why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is
making
it usual noise.

That is probably the fan.

The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window,
even
with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an
electronic
ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before).

Does the flame ignite?

Christian.

Hi Andy

Tested the micro-switches and they work fine.


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote:

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works

There are two pumps?


3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch?
This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up.
Have you checked that at the boiler end?


So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the
boiler,
right??

It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't
say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the
problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others
have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could
prevent the boiler from firing,



If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the
cost of repair.

It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is
poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a
system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have
to pay for a fix first.

You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job.




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which
is
why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is
making
it usual noise.

That is probably the fan.

The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window,
even
with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an
electronic
ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before).

Does the flame ignite?

Christian.

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:44:54 +0100, "MP" wrote:

Hi Andy

Thanks for your comeback.

2 pumps --

Well there's the system pump upstairs and I thought there was a pump in the
boiler itself (I thought there was!).

The divertervalve I assume is the T-piece 3-way switch you talk of. I know
the motor works, but how would I test the microswitches?
The boiler (not a combi boiler just a gas fired one) is completely closed
off, there's noise coming from it when water/heating is selected, which is
why I thought there was a pump in the boiler, and the outside vent is making
it usual noise.

This is probably a fan, which is used to provide combustion air and
clear the fumes from the boiler.

If this is starting when the valve opens and thermostats indicate heat
is needed it means that the switched live is OK.




The boiler has one simple thermostat and the little inspection window, even
with the cover off (which I can gain access to), it looks like an electronic
ignition, instead of a manual one (had one before).

It could be the ignition in that case, or it could be the gas valve or
even an overheat sensor.


Thanks for your points about BG, I'll steer clear.

I would suggest finding a CORGI to look at it. The spares that could
be involved are relatively expensive (a few tens of pounds) and you
could end up going down the path of trying something only to find it's
something else. Then you would have spent more than a service call.

To go further, you really would need the service manual and at least a
multimeter to determine where the problem is. You could go that
route, but you do need to have an understanding of the boiler and
what is going on in that case.




Regards

Matt


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:16:52 +0100, "MP" wrote:

Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works

There are two pumps?


3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

Do you mean the diverter valve? have you checked the microswitch?
This normally provides a switched live to the boiler to fire it up.
Have you checked that at the boiler end?


So I assume (and only assume) it must be the ignition switch on the
boiler,
right??

It could be one of a number of components in the boiler. You don't
say what type the boiler is so it would be hard to say what the
problem is. Some boilers have simple thermostats etc. while others
have boards of electronics. Malfunction of any of several could
prevent the boiler from firing,



If so any idea on repair cost, or is it worth joining the British Gas
service scheme (£10 per month) and use their services??

With this amount of information, it would be difficult to predict the
cost of repair.

It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is
poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a
system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have
to pay for a fix first.

You would be better off getting a local CORGI fitter to do the job.




--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in
:

It's never worth joining BG's service scheme because service level is
poor, as is value for money. Also, they are not likely to take on a
system for maintenance that is not currently working. You would have
to pay for a fix first.

IME they were happy to take on a system that was faulty. Called them out a
few weeks later and they fixed it FOC (new boiler fan, new valves). £120
well spent, especially as later that same year my thermostat died, too...

--
Rich P
Replace .invalid with .com to reply.

"MP" wrote in
:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.



What make/model of boiler is it?

Many boilers have an electric spark ignition. There is a safety cutout
which may need resetting, often by a button behind a hole in the bottom of
the boiler.

Alternatively older boilers have pilot lights - a small flame that needs to
be running continuously. This may have gone out for some reason (maybe gas
has been turned off, perhaps a draught) and will need relighting. Usually
there will be instructions on a boiler (behind a door or cover if there is
one.) You'll see probably three buttons, one for gas on, one for spark, and
another for cut out. Usually this requires you to hold the gas on button,
press the spark so that the pilot lights, then hold the gas on for a minute
or two.

But tell us what boiler you have.

Rich


--
Rich P
Replace .invalid with .com to reply.

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

Hi Richard -

it's an Orion Fanflare ## Si.

The ## is either 30, 40, 50 or 60. It doesn't state which one.


"Richard Polhill" wrote in message
...
"MP" wrote in
:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.



What make/model of boiler is it?

Many boilers have an electric spark ignition. There is a safety cutout
which may need resetting, often by a button behind a hole in the bottom of
the boiler.

Alternatively older boilers have pilot lights - a small flame that needs
to
be running continuously. This may have gone out for some reason (maybe gas
has been turned off, perhaps a draught) and will need relighting. Usually
there will be instructions on a boiler (behind a door or cover if there is
one.) You'll see probably three buttons, one for gas on, one for spark,
and
another for cut out. Usually this requires you to hold the gas on button,
press the spark so that the pilot lights, then hold the gas on for a
minute
or two.

But tell us what boiler you have.

Rich


--
Rich P
Replace .invalid with .com to reply.

In message , MP
writes
Hi there.

Well, my boiler isn't firing up for hot water or heating!!

What I know is :-

1. The boiler pump works
2. The system pump works
3. The 3-way electric switch works (and I've just changed the motor).

Having read the other posts now and established what boiler it is

really you need a meter to test for mains

I think that your boiler uses a 309S376 pcb

The pins on the pcb are marked as to their function and you should be
able to diagnose a fair bit from testing the voltages on the various
pins

First check that there is mains going onto the pcb, if so, pull the
connector off which is marked O/H and test whether it is a short
circuit, if not your overheat stat has tripped

If it is a short circuit, then check that you have 240 volts to the fan
(which you should if the o/h stat is OK). If you do, check to see if the
fan is rotating, if not, then either the air pressure switch contract
resistance has gone high or the fan is knackered.

Remove the connector and check to see if the fan is open circuit or has
a finite resistance (I think 50-100 ohms).

Does the fan rotate freely or is it stiff ?

That's enough to get you started


--
geoff

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running
and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe
could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running
and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe
could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it

--
geoff

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running
and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe
could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it

It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is
running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be
duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd
look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it


Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the
fan *is* running.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is running
and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be duff - or a pipe
could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it

It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so.

I don't see where he said the fan was running, only that there was a
noise which someone (you ?) said was the fan

--
geoff

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message ,
Christian McArdle writes
There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is
running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be
duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd
look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it

It would be, but as the fan does appear to be running, it is less so.

I don't see where he said the fan was running, only that there was a
noise which someone (you ?) said was the fan


In his post of 3.44pm yesterday, the OP said, " . . and the outside vent is
making
it usual noise." - which I (rightly or wrongly) took as an indication that
that fan was probably running.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the
PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up),
he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour +
vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme.

thanks for your help

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is
running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be
duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd
look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it


Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the
fan *is* running.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
mp wrote:

hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it
seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it
worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted
£150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up
maintenance scheme.


I bet Geoff could have supplied a board for a lot less than that. It was
probably just a dry joint anyway - which 5 minutes with a soldering iron
could possibly have fixed.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In message , mp
writes
hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the
PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up),
he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour +
vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme.

You'd better look at my website then

www.cetltd.com


thanks for your help

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
raden wrote:

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christian McArdle wrote:

Hi Christian - no there's no flame.

If you get fan noise, but no flame, even for a second, suspect the
following:

1. Gas valve.
2. Ignitor.
3. Gas supply
4. PCB.
5. Safety lockouts (although most would cut the fan also).

Christian.

There is probably a pressure switch which detects that the fan is
running and allows the ignition system to operate. This could be
duff - or a pipe could have fallen off. I think that's where I'd
look first.

It's a bit academic if the fan's not running, isn't it


Reading between the lines of what the OP wrote earlier, I believe that the
fan *is* running.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.





--
geoff

In message , Set Square
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
mp wrote:

hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it
seems the PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it
worked (ie fired up), he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted
£150 for PCB, £70 labour + vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up
maintenance scheme.


I bet Geoff could have supplied a board for a lot less than that. It was
probably just a dry joint anyway - which 5 minutes with a soldering iron
could possibly have fixed.

30 quid + +


--
geoff

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:23:05 +0100, "mp" wrote:

hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the
PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up),
he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour +
vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme.

thanks for your help

Mmmmmm......

Also £150.

Then £150 next year, and the year after, and the year after......

Then when it finally does break, twice market price for a new
boiler.....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:23:05 +0100, "mp" wrote:

hi guys - the fan is running. Had it looked at yesterday and it seems the
PCB is at fault, he tapped it with a screwdriver.. it worked (ie fired up),
he tapped it agin and it stopped! They wanted £150 for PCB, £70 labour +
vat = too much, gone with Bri Gas sign up maintenance scheme.

thanks for your help

Mmmmmm......

Also £150.

Which is daylight robbery for a pcb with a couple of dozen components on

I bought a computer motherboard new for £26 + a few months ago

OK there's the economies of scale, but ...


--
geoff