I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

J

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Gas or electric may be the only practical solution.

Sheila

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:33 -0500, S Viemeister
wrote:

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Yes. There is room outside for a tank, provided it's not too massive.
How big does the oil tank need to be? Can it be positioned against the
building? Does it have to be within x feet of the road for filling
purposes?

Space for a coal bunker is also feasable. I have Victorian fireplaces
in two rooms that could be opened up to take a coke-burning boiler,
I'm guessing.

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:18:33 -0500, S Viemeister
wrote:

Jimmy wrote:

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own.


What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?


Oil will require an exterior storage tank. Will that be possible with
your
flat?
Solid fuel will also require storage - do you have a suitable area?

Yes. There is room outside for a tank, provided it's not too massive.
How big does the oil tank need to be? Can it be positioned against the
building? Does it have to be within x feet of the road for filling
purposes?


Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).
Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this. You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).

Yes indeed. The flat is on the ground floor.

Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this.

Thanks for the lead.

You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:

Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
snipped

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J


What? The flat above yours has gas? Why not get the gas co. to take a
tapping off it and fit a separate meter for your flat? I'm sure that won't
cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds. You already have pipework to
radiators and things, which should also be easily altered to make two
separate smaller systems from one large one.

I think you should check the pricing of a gas supply and boiler thoroughly
first before jumping in to alternative fuels and things.

Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.

If gas is that close, then go for it. The oil tank installation will
probably cost more than the gas pipework. Piped natural gas is seriously
superior to oil and far more attractive to potential purchasers, for good
reason.

Christian.

Jimmy wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:49 +0000 (UTC), "John"
wrote:


Oil is an economical fuel and modern boilers do not have smell problems.
However it is not generally suitable for installation above the ground floor
so the first question is do you have a ground floor location available for
the boiler (wall mounted ones are available but lifting oil does give rise
to extra work for the fuel pump).


Yes indeed. The flat is on the ground floor.


Oil tanks must be installed to comply with building regs and also the
control of pollution act. You would be well advised to take a look at the
OFTEC website for details. Harlequin fuel tanks is another useful site as is
Firebird Boilers or Trianco Boilers. Google is your friend in this.


Thanks for the lead.


You can
even have outdoor boiler models with their own weatherproof casings.
Tank location is quite stringent but fuel delivery tankers have lo-o-o-ong
hoses and can cope with up to 25 metres normally although the tanker drivers
find dragging this length of pipe out somewhat onerous
Your concept of the costs of installing central heating do seem to be
somewhat unreal even allowing for you carrying out most of the work
yourself.


Actually, the central heating system (radiators and pipework) is
already installed. It was running off a gas boiler in the flat above.
But now we want to split the system so that each flat is
independedent. So apart from a minor alteration to the plumbing, the
only real expense is getting a boiler installed plus the means to fuel
it. Sounds like oil might be an option. has anyone had an oil-fired
boiler and tank installed? Care to reveal the cost?

J
About a grand and a half to two grand.

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

And some.

After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a
combi boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators.

And some.

What about (a) oil

A reasonable choice when gas is not available.

and (b)coal or coke?

Solid fuel is a pain in the arse. Last resort territory, really, except
for nice solid fuel fires when you want to relax, but not every day.

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

The alternatives will also rise in price.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Warm air is available, but very expensive to retrofit to a house not
designed for it. Wet radiators are much easier to install and can run
off oil.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

Install gas if it is available. It will add to the value of your
property and is a lot less hassle than oil or solid fuel. If it isn't
possible, go with oil. It will still cost many thousands to install.

Christian.

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

If a gas main is available for a few hundred quid, then go for gas. £1000
is very cheap for a main and CH system in a flat, so expect x 2. If you
own the flat it will be a selling item and you will get the capital cost
back when you sell.

Forced air can be fitted but expesnive as ducting has to be fitted.
Probably best to go for rads.

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke?

Yes - both. Have also used LPG. Other obvious one missing is woodchip.

All are far more expensive than mains gas so if it really is a "few hundred"
to get it piped in then do it.

In article , Jimmy
writes

I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

J
Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

--
..

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:43 +0000, "."
wrote:


Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

J

In article , Jimmy
writes
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:43 +0000, "."
wrote:


Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

--
..

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

You must seriously live up north somewhere! You'd be lucky to get a boiler
alone installed for 1500 quid, let alone tanks and rads.

Christian.

In article , Christian
McArdle writes
My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total

You must seriously live up north somewhere! You'd be lucky to get a boiler
alone installed for 1500 quid, let alone tanks and rads.

Christian.

700-800 for the boiler then(just looked it up), you reckon 7-800 for the
boiler installation? sounds too much to me, putting in an oil boiler is
a doddle

--
..

"." wrote in message
...
Oil boiler to rads will be your best option, oil is cheap enough and
the
installation costs will be very similar to gas but without the
connection cost, as other posters have said though 1K is too little 2-3
I would have thought

Thanks for the input. Does that 2-3K include the installation of the
rads and their pipework or just the tank and boiler? I already have
the c/h rads and their associated plumbing installed. All I need is a
boiler and the means to fuel it. (then the minor plumbing work to
connect it up to my existing pipework, which I can do myself at a
pinch).

My price included the rads, at a guess- 6-700 for the boiler, 2-300 for
the tank, plus installation, 2-3 days work so about 1500 in total


Depends where you live. Many (becoming most with the latest regulations)
require a bunded tank which triples the price. And once you add a flue it's
nearer £800 for the boiler.

"Jimmy" wrote
| I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
| cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

Which is peanuts. *GAS* C/H will add considerably more value to your flat.

| After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi
| boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total
| cost amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other
| avenues I could consider for heating.

Any boiler form of heating, you will still have to pay for the boiler and
rads.

| There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.

It can be feasible on Economy 7 tariff if the flat is well-insulated, and
might have a lower installation cost. However even modern storage heaters
are bulky and the system is less flexible than instant heating from
radiators, so buyers will be discouraged.

One advantage of a gas combi is that it removes the need for hot water
storage cylinder, which releases space - which again can have a financial
value in a flat. Gas combi will also give a reasonably good shower (in most
circumstances), which most flat dwellers will prefer.

| What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
| gas main installation?
| What about (a) oil

Requires a tank. This may be a major problem with a flat.

| and (b)coal or coke?

For a flat??? Are you crazy??? Buyers will walk away. NO flat buyer wants to
carry coal about or dispose of the ash. Hint: Queen Victoria has died. Women
go out to work and want to keep their fingernails smart. Maids-of-all-work
can no longer be hired for thruppence a month all found.

| There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
| future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
| alternatives.

From that point of view, the best power source to go for would be
electricity, as it can be generated from the cheapest fuel available at the
time, including increasing 'renewables'. However, current gas supplies are
likely to last, and cheap renewables won't come on stream, until maybe 15 or
20 years in the future, by which time a gas boiler will be due for replacing
anyway, whether by a new one or something else.

Owain

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:

"Jimmy" wrote
| I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
| cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on.

Which is peanuts. *GAS* C/H will add considerably more value to your flat.

| After that, I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi
| boiler to heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total
| cost amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other
| avenues I could consider for heating.

Any boiler form of heating, you will still have to pay for the boiler and
rads.

| There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.

It can be feasible on Economy 7 tariff if the flat is well-insulated, and
might have a lower installation cost. However even modern storage heaters
are bulky and the system is less flexible than instant heating from
radiators, so buyers will be discouraged.

One advantage of a gas combi is that it removes the need for hot water
storage cylinder, which releases space - which again can have a financial
value in a flat. Gas combi will also give a reasonably good shower (in most
circumstances), which most flat dwellers will prefer.

| What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
| gas main installation?
| What about (a) oil

Requires a tank. This may be a major problem with a flat.

| and (b)coal or coke?

For a flat??? Are you crazy??? Buyers will walk away. NO flat buyer wants to
carry coal about or dispose of the ash. Hint: Queen Victoria has died. Women
go out to work and want to keep their fingernails smart. Maids-of-all-work
can no longer be hired for thruppence a month all found.

| There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
| future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
| alternatives.

From that point of view, the best power source to go for would be
electricity, as it can be generated from the cheapest fuel available at the
time, including increasing 'renewables'. However, current gas supplies are
likely to last, and cheap renewables won't come on stream, until maybe 15 or
20 years in the future, by which time a gas boiler will be due for replacing
anyway, whether by a new one or something else.

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people, to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then decide.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:36:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people, to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then decide.

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies,
and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:36:30 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:36:06 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:
snipped

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the
meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to
the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main
coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil
to avoid bankruptcy.

J


You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people,
to
install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of
dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large
house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate
flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole
large
property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then
decide.

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies,
and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J


Transco are the only people that fit mains gas pipes and meters, but your
local, ask the neighbour, gas supplier will be able to put you through the
wringer, sorry, give you a price for this. :-)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:09:50 +0000, Jimmy wrote:


I've got this flat that has no gas supply of its own. I think it would
cost me a few hundred pounds to have a gas main laid on. After that,
I'd need to fork out another few hundred to install a combi boiler to
heat the DHW and the C/H radiators. I can imagine the total cost
amounting to way over £1000. I'm wondering if there are other avenues
I could consider for heating.

There's electricity of course but it's obviously expensive to run.
What other fuels could I use that would eliminate that expense of a
gas main installation?

What about (a) oil and (b)coal or coke? Obviously these are
potentially messier than gas, but what about the actual cost, both for
the initial installation and then the running costs? Has anyone used
these fuels for central heating and tapwater heating?

There seems to be a likelihood that gas will get more expensive in the
future too, which is another reason I'm keen to know about any viable
alternatives.

I remember when I was in Canada about 15 years ago, I noted that many
people used oil-fired warm-air central heating. But the boiler looked
like a large and expensive item.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice.


When the cost of additional items like tanks or bunkers are added to the
increased costs of the non-gas appliance gas looks by far the best of the
non-electric options.

Electric heating is far from ideal, high running costs, lack of control.
In fact for someone or a couple who is/are out all day, it may work out
far simpler and cheaper to install electric convector heaters rather than
storage units.
With timers and thermostats, using normal full price juice selectively
will likely work out much better than storage units filled with cheaper
heat that is wasted during the day.

If mains gas is available even if it costs many hundred to setup then the
only argument that would prevent you installing gas CH would be that you
could not (yet) afford to do so. You will likely add twice its cost to the
value of the flat.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html