UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Mark Trueman
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CH System advice.

Hi all,

Yes, it may be the first failed diverter valve of the year, and it has
inspired me to thing about replacing my whole system. Firstly a bit of
background about the current system.

House is a 2 bed end terrace, currently only has 5 radiators, one in
the lounge (open plan to dining room), one in the kitchen extension
(which gets really cold in the winter - insulation problem there i
think), one in the master bed, one in the hall and one in the bathroom.
Second bedroom doesnt have a rad. They are all old rads, no TRVs or
anything. The system as a whole is absolute crud. Some of the rads are
in series with each other, some (in the kitchen extension) are teed
off. Hot water is heated indirectly in a standard cylinder in the
second bedroom airing cupboard. Theres a pump and a diverter under the
floor(!!!) in the dining room, by the Baxi back boiler. As SWMBO wanted
laminate, thats the replacement of that scuppered. I dont even think
its all plumbed in right, you have to have the hot water on for half an
hour before you have the heating on in order to get any hot water at
all. I think that the hot water is pumped through the rads before it
heats the cylinder water, so its cold by the time it gets there!!

Our only requirements of the new system are....

6 new radiators and pipework that must be hidden underfloor
(floorboards and joists), sized to handle our heat requirements.

Keeping the ability to store hot water in the cylinder - two reasons
here which i think are valid - 1. our venturi shower wont work without
a hot water cylinder. 2. The wife likes the occasional bath.

I am umming and aahing about whether to do this diy, as it needs to be
in before it starts getting really cold, and working full time, i dont
have much of it spare to do something like this. And of course, i
havent done a central heating install before. Im confident that my
plumbing and electrical skills are up to it though.

Also, i need to keep the cost around the 1500 mark.

So on to my questions and musings.....

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.

Pipework under laminate floor - any suggestions. I think removal of
aforementioned minging flooring is the best option.

TRVs/Thermostats etc... We just want the whole house to be warm, not
really bothered about upstairs being cooler than downstairs etc. Whats
the best way to do this. Im guessing at trvs on all rads (except
bathroom one), but would you recommend a room thermostat in the lounge
to tie in with these. If someone could explain the need for room
thermostats when you have trvs i would appreciate it (seen a few
installs with trvs and thermostats but dont really understand why you
need thermostats when the temp is controlled by the trvs)

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.

Im sure there are a load of things ive missed out, but any pointers
would be appreciated (and yes, i have read the faq etc)

Mark

  #2   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mark Trueman wrote:

Hi all,

Yes, it may be the first failed diverter valve of the year, and it has
inspired me to thing about replacing my whole system. Firstly a bit of
background about the current system.

House is a 2 bed end terrace, currently only has 5 radiators, one in
the lounge (open plan to dining room), one in the kitchen extension
(which gets really cold in the winter - insulation problem there i
think), one in the master bed, one in the hall and one in the
bathroom. Second bedroom doesnt have a rad. They are all old rads, no
TRVs or anything. The system as a whole is absolute crud. Some of the
rads are in series with each other, some (in the kitchen extension)
are teed off. Hot water is heated indirectly in a standard cylinder
in the second bedroom airing cupboard. Theres a pump and a diverter
under the floor(!!!) in the dining room, by the Baxi back boiler. As
SWMBO wanted laminate, thats the replacement of that scuppered. I
dont even think its all plumbed in right, you have to have the hot
water on for half an hour before you have the heating on in order to
get any hot water at all. I think that the hot water is pumped
through the rads before it heats the cylinder water, so its cold by
the time it gets there!!

Our only requirements of the new system are....

6 new radiators and pipework that must be hidden underfloor
(floorboards and joists), sized to handle our heat requirements.

Keeping the ability to store hot water in the cylinder - two reasons
here which i think are valid - 1. our venturi shower wont work without
a hot water cylinder. 2. The wife likes the occasional bath.

I am umming and aahing about whether to do this diy, as it needs to be
in before it starts getting really cold, and working full time, i dont
have much of it spare to do something like this. And of course, i
havent done a central heating install before. Im confident that my
plumbing and electrical skills are up to it though.

Also, i need to keep the cost around the 1500 mark.

So on to my questions and musings.....

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.

Pipework under laminate floor - any suggestions. I think removal of
aforementioned minging flooring is the best option.

TRVs/Thermostats etc... We just want the whole house to be warm, not
really bothered about upstairs being cooler than downstairs etc. Whats
the best way to do this. Im guessing at trvs on all rads (except
bathroom one), but would you recommend a room thermostat in the lounge
to tie in with these. If someone could explain the need for room
thermostats when you have trvs i would appreciate it (seen a few
installs with trvs and thermostats but dont really understand why you
need thermostats when the temp is controlled by the trvs)

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.

Im sure there are a load of things ive missed out, but any pointers
would be appreciated (and yes, i have read the faq etc)

Mark


It sounds as if you currently have a diverter valve (as opposed to a mid
position valve) and that it is set to heating priority - which is unusual. A
diverter valve gives you either HW or CH but never both at the same time. A
mid-position valve looks very similar - and can provide just HW or just CH,
but can also do both together when in its mid position. At very least you
should replace the diverter valve with a mid-position valve. From what you
say, the pump and valve are inaccessible, under the laminate flooring. You
need to do something about this *urgently* - either by moving them or by
creating some sort of access hatch. These are the two components which most
frequently need to be accessed whenever you need to do any trouble-shooting!

Do you need to replace the existing boiler, or does it have enough capacity
to supply additional radiators? You would certainly get better efficiency
from a new boiler, but this will involve a lot of plumbing because it seems
that all the pipework currently leads to the existing boiler site.

You can use the CH side of a combi to provide both CH and stored hot water
if desired, using zone valves (similar to your current setup) but there is
only any point in doing this if you are also going to use the HW side of the
combi to provide instant hot water to some of the taps - such as in the
kitchen. Otherwise, use a conventional boiler.

With regard to room stats, you need a boiler interlock in order to satisfy
the latest energy efficiency regs. This means that when the house gets up to
temperature, the boiler must automatically be turned OFF. If you use TRVs on
all rads but *don't* have a room stat, the boiler will remain on - keeping
itself hot by cycling on and off via its internal thermostat even when no
external heat is required. You therefore need to have one room with a room
stat but no TRV on that radiator.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #3   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mark Trueman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Yes, it may be the first failed diverter valve of the year, and it has
inspired me to thing about replacing my whole system. Firstly a bit of
background about the current system.

House is a 2 bed end terrace, currently only has 5 radiators, one in
the lounge (open plan to dining room), one in the kitchen extension
(which gets really cold in the winter - insulation problem there i
think), one in the master bed, one in the hall and one in the bathroom.
Second bedroom doesnt have a rad. They are all old rads, no TRVs or
anything. The system as a whole is absolute crud. Some of the rads are
in series with each other, some (in the kitchen extension) are teed
off. Hot water is heated indirectly in a standard cylinder in the
second bedroom airing cupboard. Theres a pump and a diverter under the
floor(!!!) in the dining room, by the Baxi back boiler. As SWMBO wanted
laminate, thats the replacement of that scuppered. I dont even think
its all plumbed in right, you have to have the hot water on for half an
hour before you have the heating on in order to get any hot water at
all. I think that the hot water is pumped through the rads before it
heats the cylinder water, so its cold by the time it gets there!!

Our only requirements of the new system are....

6 new radiators and pipework that must be hidden underfloor
(floorboards and joists), sized to handle our heat requirements.

Keeping the ability to store hot water in the cylinder - two reasons
here which i think are valid - 1. our venturi shower wont work without
a hot water cylinder. 2. The wife likes the occasional bath.

I am umming and aahing about whether to do this diy, as it needs to be
in before it starts getting really cold, and working full time, i dont
have much of it spare to do something like this. And of course, i
havent done a central heating install before. Im confident that my
plumbing and electrical skills are up to it though.

Also, i need to keep the cost around the 1500 mark.

So on to my questions and musings.....

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.

Pipework under laminate floor - any suggestions. I think removal of
aforementioned minging flooring is the best option.

TRVs/Thermostats etc... We just want the whole house to be warm, not
really bothered about upstairs being cooler than downstairs etc. Whats
the best way to do this. Im guessing at trvs on all rads (except
bathroom one), but would you recommend a room thermostat in the lounge
to tie in with these. If someone could explain the need for room
thermostats when you have trvs i would appreciate it (seen a few
installs with trvs and thermostats but dont really understand why you
need thermostats when the temp is controlled by the trvs)

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.

Im sure there are a load of things ive missed out, but any pointers
would be appreciated (and yes, i have read the faq etc)


Mark,

To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It will
modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No complex zone vales
or control wiring, etc. You will need a decent flowrate as you will want
the occasional bath. A condenser? try the Worcester-Bosch Greenstar 40kW
combi at 16 litres/min. You will not be disappointed.

You will be using most of the existing rads, so no great thing there. Put
de-sludge in the system for as long as you can (max one month), before you
rip out the old boiler. Flush well. Look at installing a kickspace heater
in the kitchen. Put TVRs upstairs only.

http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/s...40HE_PLUS.html




  #4   Report Post  
Mark Trueman
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Mark Trueman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Yes, it may be the first failed diverter valve of the year, and it has
inspired me to thing about replacing my whole system. Firstly a bit of
background about the current system.

House is a 2 bed end terrace, currently only has 5 radiators, one in
the lounge (open plan to dining room), one in the kitchen extension
(which gets really cold in the winter - insulation problem there i
think), one in the master bed, one in the hall and one in the bathroom.
Second bedroom doesnt have a rad. They are all old rads, no TRVs or
anything. The system as a whole is absolute crud. Some of the rads are
in series with each other, some (in the kitchen extension) are teed
off. Hot water is heated indirectly in a standard cylinder in the
second bedroom airing cupboard. Theres a pump and a diverter under the
floor(!!!) in the dining room, by the Baxi back boiler. As SWMBO wanted
laminate, thats the replacement of that scuppered. I dont even think
its all plumbed in right, you have to have the hot water on for half an
hour before you have the heating on in order to get any hot water at
all. I think that the hot water is pumped through the rads before it
heats the cylinder water, so its cold by the time it gets there!!

Our only requirements of the new system are....

6 new radiators and pipework that must be hidden underfloor
(floorboards and joists), sized to handle our heat requirements.

Keeping the ability to store hot water in the cylinder - two reasons
here which i think are valid - 1. our venturi shower wont work without
a hot water cylinder. 2. The wife likes the occasional bath.

I am umming and aahing about whether to do this diy, as it needs to be
in before it starts getting really cold, and working full time, i dont
have much of it spare to do something like this. And of course, i
havent done a central heating install before. Im confident that my
plumbing and electrical skills are up to it though.

Also, i need to keep the cost around the 1500 mark.

So on to my questions and musings.....

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.

Pipework under laminate floor - any suggestions. I think removal of
aforementioned minging flooring is the best option.

TRVs/Thermostats etc... We just want the whole house to be warm, not
really bothered about upstairs being cooler than downstairs etc. Whats
the best way to do this. Im guessing at trvs on all rads (except
bathroom one), but would you recommend a room thermostat in the lounge
to tie in with these. If someone could explain the need for room
thermostats when you have trvs i would appreciate it (seen a few
installs with trvs and thermostats but dont really understand why you
need thermostats when the temp is controlled by the trvs)

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.

Im sure there are a load of things ive missed out, but any pointers
would be appreciated (and yes, i have read the faq etc)


Mark,

To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It will
modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No complex zone
vales
or control wiring, etc. You will need a decent flowrate as you will want
the occasional bath. A condenser? try the Worcester-Bosch Greenstar 40kW
combi at 16 litres/min. You will not be disappointed.

You will be using most of the existing rads, so no great thing there. Put
de-sludge in the system for as long as you can (max one month), before you
rip out the old boiler. Flush well. Look at installing a kickspace
heater
in the kitchen. Put TVRs upstairs only.

http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/s...40HE_PLUS.html




At 1300 for that boiler alone, i think my budget of 1500 can not be met by
your suggestion.

Radiators will need replacing as they must be about as old as i am, no bleed
valves on them or anything. Load of rubbish they are

And as much as i would love a TVR , it would probably break down on the way
up the stairs

But thanks for the info anyway


  #5   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:


To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It
will modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No
complex zone vales or control wiring, etc.


Here we go again - the answer's a Combi - now, what's the question!!!

The OP specifically said that he wanted to keep stored hot water for his
venturi shower - not to mention baths! So, if he goes the combi route, he'll
need to use the CH side for most of his requirements, and use zone valves to
split CH from stored hot water.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.




  #6   Report Post  
Mark Trueman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

IMM post was taken with a pinch of salt the moment he recommended a £1300
boiler for an installation with a budget of £1500.

My requirements also state that advice be given by someone who can both read
my post, and perform simple arithmetic based on the facts therein.

Thanks for your input Set Square.

With regards to my current installation, im not sure if it is the diverter
that has gone, from what i have read it is more likely to be the pump. I
will get a big stick under the floor later and see if i can hit the pump a
couple of times to get it going. Probably just sludged up.

If a pump is not accessible, will standard flushing methods clean it out??

Mark

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:


To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It
will modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No
complex zone vales or control wiring, etc.


Here we go again - the answer's a Combi - now, what's the question!!!

The OP specifically said that he wanted to keep stored hot water for his
venturi shower - not to mention baths! So, if he goes the combi route,
he'll
need to use the CH side for most of his requirements, and use zone valves
to
split CH from stored hot water.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.




  #7   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mark Trueman" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Mark Trueman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Yes, it may be the first failed diverter valve of the year, and it has
inspired me to thing about replacing my whole system. Firstly a bit of
background about the current system.

House is a 2 bed end terrace, currently only has 5 radiators, one in
the lounge (open plan to dining room), one in the kitchen extension
(which gets really cold in the winter - insulation problem there i
think), one in the master bed, one in the hall and one in the bathroom.
Second bedroom doesnt have a rad. They are all old rads, no TRVs or
anything. The system as a whole is absolute crud. Some of the rads are
in series with each other, some (in the kitchen extension) are teed
off. Hot water is heated indirectly in a standard cylinder in the
second bedroom airing cupboard. Theres a pump and a diverter under the
floor(!!!) in the dining room, by the Baxi back boiler. As SWMBO wanted
laminate, thats the replacement of that scuppered. I dont even think
its all plumbed in right, you have to have the hot water on for half an
hour before you have the heating on in order to get any hot water at
all. I think that the hot water is pumped through the rads before it
heats the cylinder water, so its cold by the time it gets there!!

Our only requirements of the new system are....

6 new radiators and pipework that must be hidden underfloor
(floorboards and joists), sized to handle our heat requirements.

Keeping the ability to store hot water in the cylinder - two reasons
here which i think are valid - 1. our venturi shower wont work without
a hot water cylinder. 2. The wife likes the occasional bath.

I am umming and aahing about whether to do this diy, as it needs to be
in before it starts getting really cold, and working full time, i dont
have much of it spare to do something like this. And of course, i
havent done a central heating install before. Im confident that my
plumbing and electrical skills are up to it though.

Also, i need to keep the cost around the 1500 mark.

So on to my questions and musings.....

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.

Pipework under laminate floor - any suggestions. I think removal of
aforementioned minging flooring is the best option.

TRVs/Thermostats etc... We just want the whole house to be warm, not
really bothered about upstairs being cooler than downstairs etc. Whats
the best way to do this. Im guessing at trvs on all rads (except
bathroom one), but would you recommend a room thermostat in the lounge
to tie in with these. If someone could explain the need for room
thermostats when you have trvs i would appreciate it (seen a few
installs with trvs and thermostats but dont really understand why you
need thermostats when the temp is controlled by the trvs)

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.

Im sure there are a load of things ive missed out, but any pointers
would be appreciated (and yes, i have read the faq etc)


Mark,

To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It will
modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No complex zone
vales
or control wiring, etc. You will need a decent flowrate as you will

want
the occasional bath. A condenser? try the Worcester-Bosch Greenstar

40kW
combi at 16 litres/min. You will not be disappointed.

You will be using most of the existing rads, so no great thing there.

Put
de-sludge in the system for as long as you can (max one month), before

you
rip out the old boiler. Flush well. Look at installing a kickspace
heater
in the kitchen. Put TVRs upstairs only.


http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/s...40HE_PLUS.html




At 1300 for that boiler alone, i think my budget of 1500 can not be met by
your suggestion.

Radiators will need replacing as they must be about as old as i am, no

bleed
valves on them or anything. Load of rubbish they are

And as much as i would love a TVR , it would probably break down on the

way
up the stairs

But thanks for the info anyway


The Alpha CB50, a non-condensing boiler is around £1100 and will deliver
around 19 litres/min to fills a bath pronto. Great for showers and baths.
£300 should be enough for rads in a two bedroomed house.

Or look at the two combi suggestion in one of my current posts. Two W-B
Juniors for around £100-1100, to give bath flows. As a DIYer you should be
looking at combi's, as they offer so much for a DIYer.

Here is a run down on combi's:

Firstly, a combi is a "combination" of the heating and water system in one
case, eliminating external tanks and cylinders, and generally supply hot
water at high main pressure. To confuse a little, some can run at very low
pressures and even off tanks. Generally most are fed from the mains. It is
generally a matter of mounting the boiler and connect up the pipes. The
expert designers have done the hard work for you and put all in one case.

Types of combi:

1) The Infinitely Continuous Combi -

Heats cold mains water instantly as it runs through the combi. It never runs
out of hot water. This is the most common type of combi, generally having
lower flowrates than Nos 2 & 3 below. The largest flow rate instant combi is
a two bathroom model, 22 litres/min ECO-Hometec. Being a condenser it is
very economical too. http://www.eco-hometec.co.uk

2) Unvented Cylinder Combi -

An unvented cylinder is a similar to a conventional cylinder but run off the
high-pressure cold mains. A combi with an integral unvented cylinder has
approx 60 litre cylinder heated to approx 80C, with a quick recovery coil
that takes all the boilers output. A fast acting cylinder thermostat ensures
the boiler pumps heat into the cylinder ASAP with a recovery rate from cold
around 5-8 mins (Ariston claim 8 mins). The 80C water is blended down to
about 45-50C. e.g's, Ariston Genus 27 Plus, Glow Worm, Powermax, Alpha
CB50.

3) Infinately Continuous/Unvented cylinder combi -

An example being the Alpha CB50, a combination of both having a two stage
flowrate, of high flowrate when using the stored water with an automatic
flow regulator switching in to reduce flow to an invinately continuous
flowrate of approx 11 litres/min.
http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CB50.html

4) Heat Bank Combi -

Incoming water is instantly heated running through a plate heat exchanger
(as is most instantaneous combi's) that takes its heat from a "domestic hot
water only" store of water at approx 80C (instantaneous combi's take the
heat from a heat-exchanger heater via the burner). A fast acting thermostat
ensures the boiler pumps all of its heat into the store ASAP with a recovery
rate about 5-8 mins from cold. The 80C water is blended down to about
45-50C. They are generally two stage flow rates, in that when the thermal
store is exhausted it reverts to what the burner can produce, which is
approx 11-12 litre/minute. e.g. Vokera & Worcester floor standing models
(standard washing machine sizes).

N.B. The heat bank is a variation of a thermal store, but is "not" a thermal
store in the conventional sense in that a coil carrying cold mains water
runs though a store of hot water kept at about 80C. Heat-banks are far more
efficient and give higher flowrates than conventional coiled thermal stores.
The stainless steel plate heat-exchangers do not scale up so easily.

5) Combined Primary Storage Unit

(Not classed as a combi, but a derivative of a combi, but still a one box
solution, so still in the same family)

These are a combination of a large thermal store, or heat bank, and boiler
in one casing. The units are large (larger than standard washing machine
size) and floor mounted. The heating is taken off the thermal store, which
in many cases the DHW taken off the store using a plate heat-exchanger
(heat-bank). Unlike the Heat-bank in 3) above the thermal store supplies
heating "and" DHW, giving the "combined" to the title. They are available
from 1 to 2.5 bathroom models. Gledhill do an excellent condensing
version, the Gulfsream 2000. http://www.gledhill.net

Nos. 2), 3), 4) & 5) have high flowrates. No. 1 "generally" has low
flowrates but there are always exceptions and some can be high - e.g. the
ECO-Hometec infinitely continuous combi, actually has a very high flowrate.
Nos 2), 3), 4) & 5) use stored water, but in different ways. Unlike No. 1
"some" versions will eventually run cold, but that takes quite a time, hence
some are referred to as "two bathroom" models, having the ability to fill
two baths with very fast recovery rates. As hot water is being drawn off
the high rating burner is also reheating. Very rare do these combi's run
out of hot water in average use. When taking one shower the burner may be
re-heating faster than what can be drawn-off. No. 3) above uses stored
water but will not run out of hot water (high and low flowrates). Most
versions of No. 4) above are two stage flowrate models (high and low
flowrates) and will also not run out of hot water.

There are combi models that give hot water and heating simultaneously as
Combined Primary Storage Units do. Most don't as they are hot water
priority.


  #8   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

To DIY go combi. they are a doddle to fit and are quicker too. It
will modulate down to the heating needs of the small house. No
complex zone vales or control wiring, etc.


Here we go again - the answer's a Combi - now, what's the question!!!

The OP specifically said that he wanted to keep stored hot water for his
venturi shower - not to mention baths! So, if he goes the combi route,

he'll
need to use the CH side for most of his requirements, and use zone valves

to
split CH from stored hot water.


It is the bottom line that counts. A combi and buying a new thermostatic
shower mixer will give great performance and be cost effective to him, as he
is fitting it himself.

Please at least try to use some common sense.


  #9   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

It is the bottom line that counts. A combi and buying a new
thermostatic shower mixer will give great performance and be cost
effective to him, as he is fitting it himself.

Please at least try to use some common sense.



It would appear that the OP prefers my flavour of common sense to yours!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #10   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Can i easily keep the current indirect heating system used for our hot
water, while replacing the central heating section. Can a
combi/condensing boiler do indirect water heating efficiently.


Yes. No problem whatsoever. Go condensing whatever you decide.

If you choose a combi boiler in a kitchen location, then you can use the
mains DHW outlet from this for the kitchen sink, whilst still heating the
cylinder. This could be useful if the kitchen is far from the cylinder
location. However, there's no real need for a combi if the indirect system
gets enough hot water to the right places in the right amount of time.

If someone could explain the need for room thermostats when you have
trvs i would appreciate it


It is quite simple. The building regulations require you to have something
called a "boiler interlock". What they mean is that the boiler must totally
switch off when no rooms require heat. If you had TRVs on every radiator,
the boiler will happily continue to pump hot water through the bypass,
merrily wasting gas.

The room thermostat solves this problem by having a master room with a
TRVless radiator. When this room warms up (and it is set to warm up ever so
slightly more slowly than other rooms), it turns off the boiler. When it has
cooled a little, the boiler fires up again and other rooms can top off with
heat too.

Another solution is to have TRVs on every radiator, but use a flow switch to
detect that the TRVs are actually passing water. When the flow switch
indicates that all TRVs are closed, it turns off the boiler. The pump is
left running, or is pulsed every 10 minutes are so to see if the TRVs ever
open again.

Types of boiler/boiler recommendations that fit in with our budget
would also be appreciated.


I'd go for a inexpensive, but not too cheap, modern condensing system boiler
such as an Icos or Glowworm, plumbed in S-Plan.

Christian.




  #11   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd go for a inexpensive, but not too cheap, modern condensing system
boiler
such as an Icos or Glowworm, plumbed in S-Plan.


P.S. Approximate cost (inc. VAT) would be

Boiler = 700
Pump = internal
Bypass = internal
2 x 2 port valves = 70
Programmer = 35
Programmable Thermostat = 30
Filling loop = 10
Radiators 6x60 = 360
TRVs 10 x 10 = 100

This leaves approximately 200 quid over for pipe, fittings, cable and other
sundries, but assumes your existing tank and radiators are adequete. Note
that the serial radiators will require fixing if you want the TRVs to be
added to them, although you might get some results by adding one to the
"cold" end of the chain.

Christian.


  #12   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
I'd go for a inexpensive, but not too cheap, modern condensing system

boiler
such as an Icos or Glowworm, plumbed in S-Plan.


P.S. Approximate cost (inc. VAT) would be

Boiler = 700
Pump = internal
Bypass = internal
2 x 2 port valves = 70
Programmer = 35
Programmable Thermostat = 30
Filling loop = 10
Radiators 6x60 = 360
TRVs 10 x 10 = 100

This leaves approximately 200 quid over for pipe, fittings, cable and

other
sundries, but assumes your existing tank and radiators are adequete. Note
that the serial radiators will require fixing if you want the TRVs to be
added to them, although you might get some results by adding one to the
"cold" end of the chain.


Best he goes for a combi. far more cost effective and will meet his needs in
DHW and fitting ability.


  #13   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

It is the bottom line that counts. A combi and buying a new
thermostatic shower mixer will give great performance and be cost
effective to him, as he is fitting it himself.

Please at least try to use some common sense.



It would appear that the OP prefers my flavour of common sense to yours!


I don't think he is that thick.


  #14   Report Post  
Christian McArdle
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Best he goes for a combi. far more cost effective and will meet his needs
in
DHW and fitting ability.


How does it meet his need for a storage based hot water system? Or do you
mean the combi just drives the kitchen sink? (Which although a perfectly
reasonable solution, would actually require more fitting, sundries and costs
that might tip it over the 1500 budget).

Christian.


  #15   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Best he goes for a combi. far more cost effective and will meet his

needs
in
DHW and fitting ability.


How does it meet his need for a storage based hot water system? Or do you
mean the combi just drives the kitchen sink? (Which although a perfectly
reasonable solution, would actually require more fitting, sundries and

costs
that might tip it over the 1500 budget).


A decent combi and rads can be had for £1500. You don't have to look hard.
he needs a combi for easy and simplicity of installation. And it will also
meet his needs. very simple solution, and simple to figure out.




  #16   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

It would appear that the OP prefers my flavour of common sense to
yours!



I don't think he is that thick.



I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to your
post!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #17   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

It would appear that the OP prefers my flavour of common sense to
yours!



I don't think he is that thick.



I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to your
post!


He is after advise and best solution. he is getting it from me. Art times
he may think he know the solution, by not knowing all the facts.


  #18   Report Post  
Set Square
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...


I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to
your post!


He is after advise and best solution. he is getting it from me. Art
times he may think he know the solution, by not knowing all the facts.



So that's alright then.

I must remember to keep repeating "IMM's the only one in step", so as not to
forget!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #19   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...


I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to
your post!


He is after advise and best solution. he is getting it from me. At
times he may think he knows the solution, by not knowing all the facts.



So that's alright then.

I must remember to keep repeating "IMM's the only one in step", so as not

to
forget!


Good. You are learning.


  #20   Report Post  
Mark Trueman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...


I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to
your post!


He is after advise and best solution. he is getting it from me. Art
times he may think he know the solution, by not knowing all the facts.



So that's alright then.

I must remember to keep repeating "IMM's the only one in step", so as not
to
forget!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.



Unfortunately for him , IMM's reputation precedes him. Even with the best
intention of listening to what he says, it is nigh on impossible to take on
his suggestions and believe that they are actually viable soultions to my
problem.

Mind you, i did like his descriptions of combi boiler types, that has proved
quite useful, thanks.

I believe that even useful suggestions from him, however rare people think
they are, would be hit for six out of the newsgroup.

At the end of the day, advice is advice, and i am grateful for all of it,
whoever it comes from.

It is up to me to take whatever advice I want, there is no gun pointed at my
head. So i choose not to take IMM's advice, and go with Christian McArdle's,
as it is more appropriate in my situation.

And anyone who's most common retort is "snip drivel" cant be taken
seriously, no matter how valid his suggestions are. Unfortunately, he has
dug his own grave here, so to speak

Looks like i can delay the work anyway, managed to get under the laminate
floor through a vent and whack the pump with a bit of marley pushfit pipe.
It kicked into action straight away.

Many thanks all

Mark

Mark





  #21   Report Post  
IMM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mark Trueman" wrote in message
...
"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
IMM wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...


I don't think he's thick at all! But read what he said in resonse to
your post!

He is after advise and best solution. he is getting it from me. Art
times he may think he know the solution, by not knowing all the facts.


So that's alright then.

I must remember to keep repeating "IMM's the only one in step", so as

not
to
forget!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


Unfortunately for him , IMM's reputation precedes him. Even with the best
intention of listening to what he says, it is nigh on impossible to take

on
his suggestions and believe that they are actually viable soultions to my
problem.


Well seeing as you liitle about the subject, why otherwise ask, you had
beter read hard at anything I say about this topic, as I know more than all
of them put together. And that is for real. If you want to do things the
expensive and hard way, go ahead, be a d***head.

Mind you, i did like his descriptions of combi boiler types, that has

proved
quite useful, thanks.


Useful for what?

I believe that even useful suggestions from him, however rare people think
they are, would be hit for six out of the newsgroup.


???

At the end of the day, advice is advice, and i am grateful for all of it,
whoever it comes from.

It is up to me to take whatever advice I want, there is no gun pointed at

my
head. So i choose not to take IMM's advice, and go with Christian

McArdle's,
as it is more appropriate in my situation.


It is not. You are a fool. You have taken the advice of amateurs who attempt
to show off their limited knowledge by advocating over complex solutions to
simple problems.

And anyone who's most common
retort is "snip drivel" cant be taken
seriously,


You obviously can't see drivel when it is in your face.



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ohmwork [email protected] Home Repair 36 July 24th 04 01:22 AM
Risk Management/Shop Safety and Advice (long) charlie b Woodworking 8 June 9th 04 10:51 PM
HF 34706 lathe Dominic Palazzola Woodturning 56 March 8th 04 12:21 PM
Cleaning out central heating system Dave UK diy 8 December 26th 03 06:47 PM
mains Hot water, and do I convert open heating to a closed heating system Ian Tracey UK diy 5 July 18th 03 10:55 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"