I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is on
its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries were
charged according to their instruction.

--
-

Do not reply to this email using "Reply-To" as address is invalid. You will
have to manually type the correct one for replying (hate spam!)

JoeJoe wrote:
As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

Well, there's some law that says thing should work for around 6 years.
But I don't know the specifics - maybe someone else does.

--
Alex Meaden
Technical Support Officer
Computing Service
University of Kent

JoeJoe wrote:
I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.
Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

I am not an expert on batteries (or anything, really :-) but this might
be the problem, if there hasn't been a steady charge/discharge cycle.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is on
its last leg.
I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.
I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.
Is there anything I can do about it?

You could tell them that unless they repair/replace it you will sue them
in the small claims court.

Take a small claims form with you (you can probably print them off from
the court service website), ask to speak to the manager, and start
filling out the form there and then.

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

No can do. Specific performance / Specific implement is only available
as a remedy where damages (money) does not provide a remedy, and where
specific implement is possible. In this case the damages would be the
cost of the tool less the use you've had of it. Eg if the court thinks
the tool should have lasted 5 years and you've had 3 years use, you'd
get two-fifths of the purchase price as damages. IOW, notalot. And you'd
have to take a day off work to go to court, for which you probably
wouldn't get any compo.

Owain

"JoeJoe" wrote in message

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

I think consumer law says that it should be of 'merchantable quality' and
'fit for purpose'. These definitions are based on what a 'reasonable
person' would expect - the man on the Clapham omnibus.

Would a 'reasonable person' expect a £90 little used drill driver to last
more than 3 years? I think so. Look up the sale of goods act on the web,
arm yourself with lots of important sounding phrases and threaten them with
trading standards.

Do it on a busy Saturday morning!

Dave

In article , Alex wrote:
Well, there's some law that says thing should work for around 6
years. But I don't know the specifics - maybe someone else does.

That's the maximum period for bringing a claim. How long you might
reasonably expect the batteries in a PPro tool to last is the
pertinent question.

I suspect that the OP's admission "Despite using it only on the very
rare occasion, " may have something to do with it.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

Tony Bryer wrote:
[snip]

I suspect that the OP's admission "Despite using it only on the very
rare occasion, " may have something to do with it.

True, batterys need charging regulary and if the charger is not of the kind
where it cuts out after a set charge then this will shorten the life of the
battery.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

Yes. I wouldn't expect a NiCd battery to last more than a year without
occasional exercising. They don't like being kept in a discharged condition
and they will discharge themselves after a month or two. I doubt that there
is a court in the land that will accept a claim for a 3 year old NiCd
battery. A new one sitting on the shelf would be toast after that period.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Hmmm. PPro isn't their budget brand, but I would struggle to call it
midmarket. I'm no lawyer, but if I was in your position, I wouldn't think it
worth pursuing after this time for the dodgy chuck, especially as these
items are usually fairly easily and cheaply replacable.

Christian.

JoeJoe wrote:
I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

snip

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

You mean the drill which SWMBO bought you for Xmas in 2003, but which
you've never had a receipt for?

Go back to B&Q again and talk to someone else.... trust me, it's worked
before!!

David

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Alex wrote:
Well, there's some law that says thing should work for around 6
years. But I don't know the specifics - maybe someone else does.

That's the maximum period for bringing a claim. How long you might
reasonably expect the batteries in a PPro tool to last is the
pertinent question.

I suspect that the OP's admission "Despite using it only on the very
rare occasion, " may have something to do with it.

Sorry, I was probably understating its use - I had a professional in mind
when I typed it. The drill has been used at least once every, say, two week
on average. I have done up three run-down flats over the last three years,
however most of the joinery work was done by a professional, hence my
reference to "rarely used". Probably a full battery use every week say.

Hope that makes sense...

J.




Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
JoeJoe wrote:
I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

snip

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

You mean the drill which SWMBO bought you for Xmas in 2003, but which
you've never had a receipt for?

Still have the receipt, and bought it myself...

Go back to B&Q again and talk to someone else.... trust me, it's worked
before!!

Will do.

Sorry, I was probably understating its use - I had a professional in mind
when I typed it. The drill has been used at least once every, say, two
week
on average. I have done up three run-down flats over the last three years,
however most of the joinery work was done by a professional, hence my
reference to "rarely used". Probably a full battery use every week say.

That sounds about right for a cheap battery. Fair wear and tear, IMO. You
must consider batteries to be consumable items.

Christian.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:


Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

3 years life out of a drill battery is pretty good going. The PP
ones (in common with nearly all of the cheaper units) are also very
prone to battery damage by even slight overcharging.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

For a battery drill ?

Is there anything I can do about it?

Not a lot, you can try to persuade them differently but you are
unlikely to get anywhere by any other means.

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do

There is no such obligation. If it is not repairable and they are
responsible the most they have to give you is the price you paid
rebated by an amount to take into account the three years use you
have had. For a battery drill that is likely to be a trivial amount.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

You mean the drill which SWMBO bought you for Xmas in 2003, but which
you've never had a receipt for?

Go back to B&Q again and talk to someone else.... trust me, it's worked
before!!

Will do.

Do remember that in the unlikely event of being caught, it is technically
fraud. If you threaten legal action, it might even be attempting to pervert
the course of justice.

Christian.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:07:49 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:


I think consumer law says that it should be of 'merchantable quality' and
'fit for purpose'. These definitions are based on what a 'reasonable
person' would expect - the man on the Clapham omnibus.

The law sets no length of time for how long an item should last. The
Sale of Goods Act does however say the goods should be of
satisfactory (not "merchantable") quality taking into account,
amongst other things, their price and also that they should be fit
for their stated purpose. Three years out of a battery drill that,
at its time of sale was at the cheap end of the market, is not
unreasonable.

Would a 'reasonable person' expect a £90 little used drill driver to last
more than 3 years? I think so.

The expected service life of a NiCd battery is only 1-2 years you
might find you have a problem persuading a reasonable man it should
have lasted 3 years.

threaten them with trading standards.

I'm sure that will terrify them.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

JoeJoe wrote:

I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

Such is the nature of cheap NiCd cells. They have probably run
completely flat on occasion and been left that way for months. The
original quality of the pack and charger at this price point is going to
be suspect anyway.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is on
its last leg.

If it were not for this, then your best bet would be to get the battery
packs re-celled...

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was ï½£90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Depends a bit on what you got for your 90 quid... i.e. A 9V drill/driver
with two batteries at that price would be comparable with a top end
product. A 18V combi with 3 packs and bunch of other bits and
screwdrivers etc would be firmly in the mid range.

Any claim based on your statuary rights will be based on reasonability,
and whether the product in question performed to a level that could
reasonably be expected given its price, and quality.

Is there anything I can do about it?

You could try complaining at B&Q that you don't think the tool was of
merchantable quality - but you are going to be on shaky ground arguing
that about a badge engineered tool, bought in bulk from the far east.

Fixing the batteries and perhaps getting a decent charger for them would
sort the performance issues out, but if the mechanics of the tool are in
doubt then I would not bother.

Personally I would write that one off to experience and start again. If
you are going to be using it very infrequently, then you may be better
off with a budget tool at 20 to 30 quid. Just expect to replace it every
few years. Alternatively look at a pro level tool, and take a bit more
care of the batteries, and expect 10 years or more good service form it.

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

It is almost certain they won't have spare parts for them.

Understanding a bit about how the economics and production of many own
brand tools works will explain why:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/category.htm

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries were
charged according to their instruction.

Alas the supplied charger was quite possibly abusing them from day one.
Leaving them discharged for long periods is also not doing them any
favours.

Discharging them completely in use can also be bad news (you should run
the tool until the performance starts to show signs of decline and then
recharge - not wait until the chuck will no longer rotate!) Judging this
point on a top quality battery pack is quite easy - but not so easy on a
mid range or budget one. Sadly it is the mid range and budget packs that
are most likely to be damaged here since the cells in them will not be
that well matched and there is a good likelihood that a few of the cells
will go completely flat before the others.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Owain wrote:
You could tell them that unless they repair/replace it you will sue
them in the small claims court.

But B&Q will call one Andy Hall as their expert witness who will say
that in his expert opinion a PPro tool could only be expected to last
3 weeks g.

According to
http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...175970&G=55160
Bosch only guarantee batteries for two years.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:26:47 UTC, "JoeJoe" wrote:

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

So the batteries have been left to self-discharge, and have rarely been
charged? Probably hasn't helped at all.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

The drill - perhaps. The batteries - perhaps not.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:55:51 UTC, Alex wrote:

JoeJoe wrote:
As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

Well, there's some law that says thing should work for around 6 years.
But I don't know the specifics - maybe someone else does.

No...just 'reasonable life' for the kind of product, and its cost. The
ceiling is 6 years.

JoeJoe wrote:

Sorry, I was probably understating its use - I had a professional in mind
when I typed it. The drill has been used at least once every, say, two week
on average. I have done up three run-down flats over the last three years,
however most of the joinery work was done by a professional, hence my
reference to "rarely used". Probably a full battery use every week say.

In that context I would say you got a reasonable deal out of the
batteries then. That is 150 charge cycles - which on a budget pack is
not bad...

(the numbers game played by the likes of B&Q with these tools probably
expects that they will spend the equivalent of eleven and a half months
of the year sat on a shelf!)

In the sort of environment you describe, you would probably be better of
with a pro level tool. The batteries would last better (although would
still need replacement eventually), but perhaps more importantly in this
case the tool itself would have better endurance, and spares should
still be available after a few years if you need them.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
ben wrote:
I suspect that the OP's admission "Despite using it only on the very
rare occasion, " may have something to do with it.

True, batterys need charging regulary and if the charger is not of the
kind where it cuts out after a set charge then this will shorten the
life of the battery.

Ni-cads - in theory - don't suffer from being left discharged. Although
very discharged packs may suffer from one or more cells reverse charging.

Overcharging is the killer, though.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
JoeJoe wrote:
Sorry, I was probably understating its use - I had a professional in
mind when I typed it. The drill has been used at least once every,
say, two week on average. I have done up three run-down flats over the
last three years, however most of the joinery work was done by a
professional, hence my reference to "rarely used". Probably a full
battery use every week say.

An average life for Ni-Cads might be 500 cycles. Possibly more with a
decent charger - much less with a poor one. Especially if starting out
with poor quality cells as these drills will have.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Christian McArdle wrote:
Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.


Yes. I wouldn't expect a NiCd battery to last more than a year without
occasional exercising. They don't like being kept in a discharged condition
and they will discharge themselves after a month or two. I doubt that there
is a court in the land that will accept a claim for a 3 year old NiCd
battery. A new one sitting on the shelf would be toast after that period.


Agreed completely. The failure is, at least in part, attributable to the
way that the drill's been (not) used.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:07:49 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:


"JoeJoe" wrote in message

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

I think consumer law says that it should be of 'merchantable quality' and
'fit for purpose'. These definitions are based on what a 'reasonable
person' would expect - the man on the Clapham omnibus.

Would a 'reasonable person' expect a £90 little used drill driver to last
more than 3 years? I think so. Look up the sale of goods act on the web,
arm yourself with lots of important sounding phrases and threaten them with
trading standards.

Do it on a busy Saturday morning!

Dave


£90 is a long way from top of the range for a drill-driver. Prices
range from about £30 to over £300.

I think that it would be extremely difficult to get anything on a
Small Claims basis at this price point and timescale.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:

I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about 10
minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is on
its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries were
charged according to their instruction.


I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.

The battery is dead because this class of drill uses cheap batteries
to minimise the cost - it's the most expensive part.

The mechanics are the next most expensive part and up for cost saving
where possible and it is not surprising that the parts have failed.

The reason why there is a three year warranty is threefold:

- It appears to be an attractive deal to the customer, who then gains
the impression that the product is decent and that the supplier is
standing behind it. Nothing is further from the truth.

- B&Q is a volume box mover and has supplier contracts which will
undoubtedly factor in a certain return/throw-away rate. THe supplier
may have to replace up to a certain percentage or it is factored into
the margins.

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.


There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one. There would be spares and service
backup if it failed. You would have had quality batteries and
mechanics and it is fairly unlikely that the problems that you have
seen would have occurred.

So let's say you went to court with this. Had it been a £300 product
and top of the range, then it would be a reasonable claim. However,
set a £90 product against that, and it's difficult to argue that a
three year warranty is unreasonable.

I think that there are three options he

- Go back to the store and ask nicely on the basis that it has hardly
been used and is only two months out of warranty. I have been able
to persuade B&Q of this in the past, but it was on a higher end and
different product.

- Try some pressure with a threat of small claims action. Frankly if
I were the retailer, I think I'd stand my ground, though.

- Chalk it up to experience and buy a Makita product for £150-180 and
avoid the problem in the future.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

It's a cheap IMM type tool. Just replace the batteries with cells from
CPC and carry on using it. If it has been left discharged for any length
of time, this tends to kill the battery performance.

Regards
Capitol

Andy Hall wrote:
snip/
- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.

There is a PP/PPro helpline telephone number on the side of each tool
IIRC. I phoned it and they offered to provide parts, I was after a slide
arm for a guard on their original 10" SCMS two years old, and out of
warrantee at the time. In the end I bought a new saw for various reasons
and repaired the bent arm. But the service was there.

Alex.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:

I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about
10
minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is
on
its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a
cheap
and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right
to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts
for
it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries
were
charged according to their instruction.


I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.

£30??? Woolies have an 18v for £5

The battery is dead because this class of drill uses cheap batteries
to minimise the cost - it's the most expensive part.

The mechanics are the next most expensive part and up for cost saving
where possible and it is not surprising that the parts have failed.

The reason why there is a three year warranty is threefold:

- It appears to be an attractive deal to the customer, who then gains
the impression that the product is decent and that the supplier is
standing behind it. Nothing is further from the truth.

- B&Q is a volume box mover and has supplier contracts which will
undoubtedly factor in a certain return/throw-away rate. THe supplier
may have to replace up to a certain percentage or it is factored into
the margins.

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.

Nonsense. You can buy spare batteries form B&Q or they will give you a
number to order one from.

There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one.

£300. You can get 60 Woolies drills for that.

There would be spares and service
backup if it failed.

With the Woolies drills, you just pick another up until the 60 all runs out.
Which will be longer than the life of a Makita. 60 of them?

£90 for a drill and only one of the batteries is duff? How much for a new
battery? Probably still a lot cheaper than buying a Makita for similar
performance.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:51:36 +0100, AlexW
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
snip/
- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.

There is a PP/PPro helpline telephone number on the side of each tool
IIRC. I phoned it and they offered to provide parts, I was after a slide
arm for a guard on their original 10" SCMS two years old, and out of
warrantee at the time. In the end I bought a new saw for various reasons
and repaired the bent arm. But the service was there.

Alex.


All PPro products? Comprehensive range of parts?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:51:36 +0100, AlexW
wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
snip/

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.

There is a PP/PPro helpline telephone number on the side of each tool
IIRC. I phoned it and they offered to provide parts, I was after a slide
arm for a guard on their original 10" SCMS two years old, and out of
warrantee at the time. In the end I bought a new saw for various reasons
and repaired the bent arm. But the service was there.

Alex.



All PPro products? Comprehensive range of parts?




Dunno...

But my random shot in the dark for a part I did not expect to be able to
get turned out to be getable.

We had to select the product PP250CMS and then work though a few
sub-assy descriptions etc. They then told me the price (about a tenner
IIRC) and indicated that it was not ex-stock and it would take a few
weeks to get. I didn't bother in the end and did a quick fix on the
slide arm thingy.

That's all the info I have. But this is /seems/ than 'no spares or backup'.

Phone 'em & see, maybe they have canned this helpline?

Alex

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:


I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about

10

minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism is

on

its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a

cheap

and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right

to

expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts

for

it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries

were

charged according to their instruction.


I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.


£30??? Woolies have an 18v for £5


The battery is dead because this class of drill uses cheap batteries
to minimise the cost - it's the most expensive part.

The mechanics are the next most expensive part and up for cost saving
where possible and it is not surprising that the parts have failed.

The reason why there is a three year warranty is threefold:

- It appears to be an attractive deal to the customer, who then gains
the impression that the product is decent and that the supplier is
standing behind it. Nothing is further from the truth.

- B&Q is a volume box mover and has supplier contracts which will
undoubtedly factor in a certain return/throw-away rate. THe supplier
may have to replace up to a certain percentage or it is factored into
the margins.

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.


Nonsense. You can buy spare batteries form B&Q or they will give you a
number to order one from.


There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one.


£300. You can get 60 Woolies drills for that.


There would be spares and service
backup if it failed.


With the Woolies drills, you just pick another up until the 60 all runs out.
Which will be longer than the life of a Makita. 60 of them?

£90 for a drill and only one of the batteries is duff? How much for a new
battery? Probably still a lot cheaper than buying a Makita for similar
performance.




Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A tad inconvenient eh?

Alex

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

£90 is a long way from top of the range for a drill-driver. Prices
range from about £30 to over £300.

I think that it would be extremely difficult to get anything on a
Small Claims basis at this price point and timescale.

Agreed, but that's not the point. Blagging B&Q isn't difficult.

Dave

"AlexW" wrote in message

Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A tad inconvenient eh?


But the OP made it clear he is a light use domestic user.

Dave

"AlexW" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:


I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about

10

minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism
is

on

its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of
the
warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it
and
claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a

cheap

and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right

to

expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as
I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts

for

it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries

were

charged according to their instruction.


I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.


£30??? Woolies have an 18v for £5


The battery is dead because this class of drill uses cheap batteries
to minimise the cost - it's the most expensive part.

The mechanics are the next most expensive part and up for cost saving
where possible and it is not surprising that the parts have failed.

The reason why there is a three year warranty is threefold:

- It appears to be an attractive deal to the customer, who then gains
the impression that the product is decent and that the supplier is
standing behind it. Nothing is further from the truth.

- B&Q is a volume box mover and has supplier contracts which will
undoubtedly factor in a certain return/throw-away rate. THe supplier
may have to replace up to a certain percentage or it is factored into
the margins.

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.


Nonsense. You can buy spare batteries form B&Q or they will give you a
number to order one from.


There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one.


£300. You can get 60 Woolies drills for that.


There would be spares and service
backup if it failed.


With the Woolies drills, you just pick another up until the 60 all runs
out.
Which will be longer than the life of a Makita. 60 of them?

£90 for a drill and only one of the batteries is duff? How much for a
new
battery? Probably still a lot cheaper than buying a Makita for similar
performance.




Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A tad inconvenient eh?

But for the same price as a £300 Makita you have 60 batteries and chargers.
Boy that is some energy on store.

David Lang wrote:
"AlexW" wrote in message


Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A tad inconvenient eh?



But the OP made it clear he is a light use domestic user.

Dave



So am I but I still want to do a days work in a day, when that day happens.

Alex

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"AlexW" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:26:47 +0100, "JoeJoe" wrote:



I bought a PPro drill from them 3 years ago.

Despite using it only on the very rare occasion, one battery is now
completely dead (wouldn't charge), and the other discharges after about

10


minute work.

Also, the drill bits seem to slip quite often as the locking mechanism

is

on


its last leg.

I just checked the receipt, and unfortunately it was 2 months out of

the

warranty period. Speaking to the shop they washed their hands off it

and

claimed that as it was more than 3 years it was tough luck on my part.

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a

cheap


and nasty one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right

to


expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Is there anything I can do about it?

As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as

I

believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts

for


it....

Cheers,

J.

PS: Probably worth mentioning that it wasn't abused, and the batteries

were


charged according to their instruction.


I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.


£30??? Woolies have an 18v for £5



The battery is dead because this class of drill uses cheap batteries
to minimise the cost - it's the most expensive part.

The mechanics are the next most expensive part and up for cost saving
where possible and it is not surprising that the parts have failed.

The reason why there is a three year warranty is threefold:

- It appears to be an attractive deal to the customer, who then gains
the impression that the product is decent and that the supplier is
standing behind it. Nothing is further from the truth.

- B&Q is a volume box mover and has supplier contracts which will
undoubtedly factor in a certain return/throw-away rate. THe supplier
may have to replace up to a certain percentage or it is factored into
the margins.

- There is no spares or repair backup. Faulty ones go in the skip.


Nonsense. You can buy spare batteries form B&Q or they will give you a
number to order one from.



There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one.


£300. You can get 60 Woolies drills for that.



There would be spares and service
backup if it failed.


With the Woolies drills, you just pick another up until the 60 all runs

out.

Which will be longer than the life of a Makita. 60 of them?

£90 for a drill and only one of the batteries is duff? How much for a

new

battery? Probably still a lot cheaper than buying a Makita for similar
performance.




Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A tad inconvenient eh?


But for the same price as a £300 Makita you have 60 batteries and chargers.
Boy that is some energy on store.



Got the 60 the first time(s) round.

Still incovenient.

AlexW wrote:

Got the 60 the first time(s) round.

Still incovenient.

I would hazard a guess that the performance of said 18V drill would be
trounced by even a 9V one of quality construction....

(I find the 5 quid a little supprising mind you - are your sure it was
5? or is this one of the loss leader jobbies (i.e. "only one per
customer while stocks last - only 3 allocated to each store" type of thing)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:53:17 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:



Nonsense. You can buy spare batteries form B&Q or they will give you a
number to order one from.

Three years down the road on all products?


There is a statute of limitations of 6 years which means that you have
the opportunity to make a legal claim against the retailer for up to
that time. The warranty is a convenience only.

Had you bought a top end drill like a Panasonic or Makita at around
£300, it would be reasonable to expect a long lifetime from it, and
indeed you would probably get one.

£300. You can get 60 Woolies drills for that.

There would be spares and service
backup if it failed.

With the Woolies drills, you just pick another up until the 60 all runs out.
Which will be longer than the life of a Makita. 60 of them?

£90 for a drill and only one of the batteries is duff? How much for a new
battery? Probably still a lot cheaper than buying a Makita for similar
performance.


This assumes that there is a criterion of buying on price rather than
quality. THis post is a classic demonstration of the outcome of
doing that.

I find it hard to believe that even you think that a £5 product from
Woolies (even if such a thing were to exist) is comparable to a
quality drill.... Actually, perhaps I don't






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

JoeJoe wrote:

I am not particularly please to say the least. It was £90 - hardly a cheap
and nasty

Not cheap, but certainly nasty.


one I would have thought, and I believe that I have the right to
expect it to work beyond 3 years.

Not really - you bought a crappy PPPro, it lasted 3 years. That's as
much as you could possibly expect.

When I was looking for an 18V combi, I tried many drills. One of those
was an 18V PPPro. I used it for one day and took it straight back - the
quality was terrible.


Is there anything I can do about it?

Buy a better drill next time.


As a worse case scenario I was thinking about forcing them to fix it as I
believe they are obliged to do - I bet they don't have any spare parts for
it....

I don't think you have any chance.


--
Grunff

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I think that you are being unrealistic. £90 is not anywhere close to
top end for a drill-driver. Prices range from £30 to over £300.

£30??? Woolies have an 18v for £5

So you buy everything purely on price? What's the cheapest boiler?

And you claim to have bought a Prius car when a 200 quid banger will get
you from A to B?

[snip the rest of the drooling]

--
*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
AlexW wrote:
Problem is £5 drills will probably have a fairly long charge time. So to
do a days work you need say 5 batteries ... all charged up?

A long charge time is preferable with a cheap charger.

And if you're using a drill all day long, wouldn't a mains one make more
sense?

--
*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.