In uk.d-i-y, Dave Liquorice wrote:
FX Google... You live an learn. My new fact for today boiling point
of Butane at 1.013 bar ("normal" atmospheric pressure) is -0.5C.

I discovered that when using a butane stove while camping in winter. I
had to share my sleeping bag with the gas bottle if I wanted a hot
breakfast. (Hint: propane doesn't suffer from that problem.)

--
Mike Barnes

In uk.d-i-y BigWallop wrote:
Everyone seems to be taking this the wrong way. I mean a squirt of butane
or propane from the can on to a stained item can help to dissolved and clean
the stain off.


Where do you find these 'cans' from which "a squirt of butane or
propane from the can" may be produced? All the propane and butane
that I've seen comes in pressurised containers.

Or am I being silly - can you get little cans of propane/butane for
filling lighters (which is where we came in).

--
Chris Green

wrote:

Where do you find these 'cans' from which "a squirt of butane or
propane from the can" may be produced? All the propane and butane
that I've seen comes in pressurised containers.

Or am I being silly - can you get little cans of propane/butane for
filling lighters (which is where we came in).


Yes, cans of lighter gas are butane, and you can squirt liquid butane
from them. But this is of little use as a degreasing solvent - yes the
butane will dissolve the grease, but it will evaporate very shortly
afterwards, leaving the grease behind. A degreasing solvent needs to
carry away the grease it has dissolved in order for it to be useful.


--
Grunff

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:16:32 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

John Redman wrote:

Or is lighter fuel made of a different composition to car petrol?


It's usually butane gas IIRC.

Different sort of lighter.... The OP was talking about the type with a
wick that use flint spark ignition only, and then stay lit until you
close the cap on them. These are quite different from the normal gas
lighters.

Zippo, for example.
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Arthur" contains these words:

I used to spend happy hours wasting the family's supply of Camping Gaz
like this as a kid.


Whats it like in Space?

Even at an early age I was clever enough to do it outdoors! As a
teenager it never occured to us to sniff glue - we made our own
chloroform instead. I'm not sure I can remember how, now - wonder why
I've forgotten....

It's all that sniffing it to make sure it worked. :-) LOL Join the crowd
mate. :-)

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:16:32 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

John Redman wrote:

Or is lighter fuel made of a different composition to car petrol?


It's usually butane gas IIRC.

Different sort of lighter.... The OP was talking about the type with a
wick that use flint spark ignition only, and then stay lit until you
close the cap on them. These are quite different from the normal gas
lighters.

Zippo, for example.


No, it's true. :-) LOL

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:21:12 +0100, Guy King wrote:

The message
from Grunff contains these words:

Lighter fuel is more refined than car petrol, but you can use normal
petrol
as a solvent as well of course. Paraffin is also a good solvent for
adhesives, along with liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Liquid butane and propane eh?

Why do you persist in posting utter crap about things which you really
don't understand?

I've used liquid butane as a solvent for gum before now. Works fine if
you're quick enoughl.

Put the container and the item to be cleaned in the freezer and it'll stay
liquid for some considerable time in fact.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:21:09 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Joe Smith wrote:

SO butane wasn't what I meant but I am always looking out for a good
solvent for sticky labels and the like. So I was intrigued by recent
posts to this thread like these:


I keep a bottle of white spirit (which is very non-polar) and a bottle
of isopropanol (which is pretty polar). Most lables use glue which will
dissolve nicely in non-polar solvents, so I try white spirit first. if
that doesn't work, then it's onto the iso, and chances are if white
spirit didn't remove it the iso will.

I'm forever running out of IPA. WD40 is quite effective.

Occasionally you get something that won't dissolve in either, and for
that I get the ethyl acetate out.

I've had to (carefully) resort to acetone to get pine tree sap off my car
paintwork. Someone said turps would have done it, but haven't had that in
the house for ages.

I understand retailers don't want customers idly swapping labels, but do
they *have* to use glues that leave residues ? It's particularly annoying
on things like timber.

--
What do you call a boomerang that doesn't work? A stick!

Joe Smith wrote:

SO butane wasn't what I meant but I am always looking out for a good
solvent for sticky labels and the like. So I was intrigued by recent
posts to this thread like these:


I keep a bottle of white spirit (which is very non-polar) and a bottle
of isopropanol (which is pretty polar). Most lables use glue which will
dissolve nicely in non-polar solvents, so I try white spirit first. if
that doesn't work, then it's onto the iso, and chances are if white
spirit didn't remove it the iso will.

Occasionally you get something that won't dissolve in either, and for
that I get the ethyl acetate out.


--
Grunff

Joe Smith wrote:

However, I must say that when i tried this I found that the butane
gas evaporated so quickly that I barely get the chance to use it.
Maybe if I could use it then I would be able to wipe any dissolved
residue away with a cloth but unfortunately it is all eveoprated in a
few seconds and I can't do much with pressurized butane at all.

For a label remover I would suggest one of the citronella oil based
products like:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...ensea rch&y=0

These will not evaporate in a hurry, and can be left to soak into paper
based labels for a few mins before peeling them off. No frozen fingers
and no unpleasent/chemical smells (just smells fruity!).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:20:22 +0100, Chris Street
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

How do you get over the small matter of the boiling point of n-butane being
just below 0C ? (Iso-butane boils about 10C lower.)

A puddle of it might sit for some time at STP, but ultimately it will end up
as a gas.

--
Say something cutting and back it up with big people.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:20:22 +0100, Chris Street
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

That's 0 degrees C isn't it? What's butane's boiling point? It
evaporates very fast at room temperature, as you discover when you
unscrew an unresealable cartridge from your camping stove!
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

"Chris Street" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to
put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

Bob Mannix

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Street" wrote...
Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

Boils at 273K if I've read my book correctly.

Chris Bacon wrote:

Butane is liquid at STP


No it isn't


Boils at 273K if I've read my book correctly.


272.7K


--
Grunff

BigWallop wrote:

"Joe Smith" wrote in message
...

I got a small can of cigarette lighter fuel (the liquid stuff) to use
as a solvent to dissolve the adhesive used in items like foam "sticky
pads".

In the can of lighter fuel it refers to "petrol lighters".

Does this mean that for my purpose I could have simply used some
orinary car petrol?

Or is lighter fuel made of a different composition to car petrol?



Lighter fuel is more refined than car petrol, but you can use normal petrol
as a solvent as well of course. Paraffin is also a good solvent for
adhesives, along with liquid butane, propane etc. etc.


Interesting. How do you plan to keep this propane and butane liquid then?

Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , Guy King wrote:

If you pour 'em out into a jar they'll stay liquid for some time,
merrily boiling away as they absorb energy from the surroundings to
achieve their latent heat of evaporation.


Doesn't this turn the surrounding area into an unexploded bomb?

Yup.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 21 Jul 2005 15:22:39 GMT, Ian Stirling wrote:


Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're
planning to put the items in question actually inside the
pressurised container.

Butane is liquid on a fair proportion of the planet.


If you are thinking of the deep ocean deposits I think you'll find
they are methane and solid.

Methane Hydrate.

Not methane.

Joe Smith wrote:

On Fri 22 Jul 2005 05:16:32, John Rumm wrote:


John Redman wrote:


Or is lighter fuel made of a different composition to car
petrol?


It's usually butane gas IIRC.

Different sort of lighter.... The OP was talking about the type
with a wick that use flint spark ignition only, and then stay
lit until you close the cap on them. These are quite different
from the normal gas lighters.



I am the OP and, yup, you are quite right. I have to say though
that I was slightly ambiguous and the reader who didn't see
"petrol" might have thought of lighter fuel which is a liquid when
it is stored (eg butane) rather than one which is a liquid in
storage and in usage (eg petrol).

However, anything which does a good job of removing those sticky
backed foam pads (or any other awkward self-adhesive items) is
always welcome. Surprisingly I found that propanol was rather
poor at dissolving this particular adhesive.


Yes. Acetone - nail varnish removcer - is good, as is white spirit.

You need a selection of bottles in the workshop - I doscovered once that
one plastic which stood up to model aircraft fuel - a witches brew of
methanol and nitromethane, which attacks almost all painst and plastics
- was totally vulbnerable to the petrol which I used to clean it.

The moral is carry a wide range and test various ones out.

Grunff wrote:

Joe Smith wrote:

SO butane wasn't what I meant but I am always looking out for a good
solvent for sticky labels and the like. So I was intrigued by recent
posts to this thread like these:



I keep a bottle of white spirit (which is very non-polar) and a bottle
of isopropanol (which is pretty polar). Most lables use glue which will
dissolve nicely in non-polar solvents, so I try white spirit first. if
that doesn't work, then it's onto the iso, and chances are if white
spirit didn't remove it the iso will.

Occasionally you get something that won't dissolve in either, and for
that I get the ethyl acetate out.


That's about my technique too.

The Natural Philosopher ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Interesting. How do you plan to keep this propane and butane liquid
then?

In a bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza.

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Street" wrote...
Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

Boils at 273K if I've read my book correctly.

I think you will find it is 272.5 but, even if it was 273 it would be
naturally gaseous at that temperature.

Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Street" wrote...
Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

Boils at 273K if I've read my book correctly.

I think you will find it is 272.5 but, even if it was 273 it would be
naturally gaseous at that temperature.

I know. I am not quibbling about the temperature it boils at, whether
it be 273K, 272.5K, or 272.76419462549402K - just agreeing that at STP
butane is gas.

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote...
Bob Mannix wrote:
"Chris Street" wrote...
Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

Boils at 273K if I've read my book correctly.

I think you will find it is 272.5 but, even if it was 273 it would be
naturally gaseous at that temperature.

I know. I am not quibbling about the temperature it boils at, whether
it be 273K, 272.5K, or 272.76419462549402K - just agreeing that at STP
butane is gas.

Ah. Difficult to distinguish from what you wrote!

As to the original point, were one in temperatures below freezing, I imagine
(though I have never tried it) butane would make a good solvent. Not
immensely practical though!

Perhaps one could keep a jamjar of liquid butane in the freezer (how to get
it in there??) and dunk things in it (after freezing them first, of course)
to degrease them. DONT TRY THIS AT HOME

Bob Mannix

In uk.d-i-y Chris Street wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

A rapidly boiling liquid.
It will last a fair time if you have an open bucket though.
Much as a bucket of water will in a 120C oven.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Tony Bryer
saying something like:

In article , Guy King wrote:
If you pour 'em out into a jar they'll stay liquid for some time,
merrily boiling away as they absorb energy from the surroundings to
achieve their latent heat of evaporation.

Doesn't this turn the surrounding area into an unexploded bomb?

Nah, it's safe, mate...

BANG!
--

Dave
SE6a

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y Chris Street wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to
put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

A rapidly boiling liquid.
It will last a fair time if you have an open bucket though.
Much as a bucket of water will in a 120C oven.

By that argument Carbon Dioxide is a solid at STP as, if you get a big chunk
of it, it lasts a fair while )

The statement "is a liquid at STP" is generally inferred as meaning "when
the whole mass of the liquid is at 0degC"

Bob Mannix

In article , "Bob Mannix" wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y Chris Street wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to
put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

A rapidly boiling liquid.
It will last a fair time if you have an open bucket though.
Much as a bucket of water will in a 120C oven.

By that argument Carbon Dioxide is a solid at STP as, if you get a big chunk
of it, it lasts a fair while )

The statement "is a liquid at STP" is generally inferred as meaning "when
the whole mass of the liquid is at 0degC"

Bob Mannix



Isn't STP 25C, 760mm?

"David Bostwick" wrote in message
...
In article , "Bob Mannix"
wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y Chris Street wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning
to
put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

A rapidly boiling liquid.
It will last a fair time if you have an open bucket though.
Much as a bucket of water will in a 120C oven.

By that argument Carbon Dioxide is a solid at STP as, if you get a big
chunk
of it, it lasts a fair while )

The statement "is a liquid at STP" is generally inferred as meaning "when
the whole mass of the liquid is at 0degC"

Bob Mannix



Isn't STP 25C, 760mm?

No. At least, half no ). Such questions are more easily answered via
Google - at least it keeps noise of the ng if you do )

Bob Mannix

The message
from contains these words:

Where do you find these 'cans' from which "a squirt of butane or
propane from the can" may be produced? All the propane and butane
that I've seen comes in pressurised containers.

You turn 'em upside down, press the valve stem - and out comes a squirt.
Simple.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

The message
from Chris Street contains these words:

Butane is liquid at STP

You sure? I thought STP was 20°C. Butane boils at -0.5°C

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:04:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If you are thinking of the deep ocean deposits I think you'll find
they are methane and solid.

Methane Hydrate.

ting Oh yes, thats the stuff.

Not methane.

Or butane...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message
from (David Bostwick) contains these
words:

Isn't STP 25C, 760mm?

My memory told me it was 20°C but it turns out to be 0°C.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:21:08 +0100, John Laird wrote:

It's particularly annoying on things like timber.

Ah thats were lighter fuel comes in, removes the sticky and doesn't
affect the timber.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:43:08 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

(Hint: propane doesn't suffer from that problem.)

Not in this country but go to the poles in the winter it will.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Guy King wrote:

The message
from Chris Street contains these words:


Butane is liquid at STP


You sure? I thought STP was 20ï½°C. Butane boils at -0.5ï½°C

Nope that is SATP (A for ambient)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If it's this:

http://www.ronson.com/products/index.htm

then this:

http://pages.slc.edu/%7Easchultz/che...ER%20FLUID.PDF


Atty

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

You sure? I thought STP was 20°C. Butane boils at -0.5°C

Nope that is SATP (A for ambient)

As I later spotted.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:43:12 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

"Chris Street" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:07 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

Paraffin is also a good solvent for adhesives, along with
liquid butane, propane etc. etc.

Butane and propane are gaseous on this planet. Unless you're planning to
put
the items in question actually inside the pressurised container.

Christian.

Butane is liquid at STP

No it isn't

0.5C is the boling point at standard pressure according to my reference.


Bob Mannix