Hi,

I have installed a new bathroom light. (changed from a 60w bulb to a 38w
fluorescent) I have 2 cables coming into the light each containing a red,
black and earth core.

My old light had the 2 reds connected to each other using chocolate block,
the 2 earths to an earth terminal and each black to its own terminal. If I
do the same with the new light it remains on permanently. I have swapped the
blacks around and there is no change. (The instructions with the light
states to connect the reds to live, black to neutral, and earths to earth
terminal. This just trips the breaker.)

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?
Thanks
Ian

Ian wrote:
I have installed a new bathroom light. (changed from a 60w bulb to a 38w
fluorescent) I have 2 cables coming into the light each containing a red,
black and earth core.

Part P ...

My old light had the 2 reds connected to each other using chocolate block,
the 2 earths to an earth terminal and each black to its own terminal.

Almost certainly this is the last light on a radial circuit (or a spur
off a radial circuit) and the two cables are (a) supply (b) switch.

If I do the same with the new light it remains on permanently.

Then you aren't doing the same ...

Your ceiling rose had 3 terms + earth, your new fitting probably only
has 2 terminals + earth.

I have swapped the blacks around and there is no change. (The
instructions with the light states to connect the reds to live, black
to neutral, and earths to earth terminal. This just trips the
breaker.)

It would do, because you are shorting the supply through the switch.

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?

You *probably* need to chocolate-block the two reds together and
unconnected to anything else. The black from the switch (switched live)
and the black from the supply (neutral) go to the L and N on the light.
The earths all go to the earth terminal. The black from the switch
*should* have a piece of red sleeving on it to show it's a live.

If in doubt, get a competent electrician.

Owain

It's _probably_

The light has 3 connections - Live, Neutral and earth. It hopefully also
has an additional choc block connection that doesn't actually connect to
a wire within the light.

You've got 6 cables. Presumably two outer cables each containing a red,
a black and an earth.

Two earths connect together, and connect to the 'earth' on the new
light.

Two reds connect together, and connect to the choc block connection in
the new light that's the spare.

One of the blacks connects to the neutral of the new light. One connects
to the live. If it doesn't indicate a specific live and neutral, it
doesn't matter which way round. If the new fluro prefers live and
neutral in specific positions, you ought to know which of the two mains
cables is permanent live and which goes to the light switch... Which
means you might need to test it...

But, if you don't know how to connect a light up, you probably shouldn't
be doing this anyway.

(And it's now illegal, anyway, in a bathroom).

A.




In article , says...
Hi,

I have installed a new bathroom light. (changed from a 60w bulb to a 38w
fluorescent) I have 2 cables coming into the light each containing a red,
black and earth core.

My old light had the 2 reds connected to each other using chocolate block,
the 2 earths to an earth terminal and each black to its own terminal. If I
do the same with the new light it remains on permanently. I have swapped the
blacks around and there is no change. (The instructions with the light
states to connect the reds to live, black to neutral, and earths to earth
terminal. This just trips the breaker.)

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?
Thanks
Ian

"Ian" wrote in message ...
Hi,

I have installed a new bathroom light. (changed from a 60w bulb to a 38w
fluorescent) I have 2 cables coming into the light each containing a red,
black and earth core.

My old light had the 2 reds connected to each other using chocolate block,
the 2 earths to an earth terminal and each black to its own terminal. If
I
do the same with the new light it remains on permanently. I have swapped
the
blacks around and there is no change. (The instructions with the light
states to connect the reds to live, black to neutral, and earths to earth
terminal. This just trips the breaker.)

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?
Thanks
Ian


The electrician has used the black on one of the cables as the live feed
from the switch to the light fitting.

Keep the two reds connected together, but place one of the blacks in the
live terminal of the light fitting, and the other black to the neutral side
on the light fitting.

If the fuse breaker trips off, then swap the blacks around.

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is not
normally done in real life.

"AJB" wrote in message...
(And it's now illegal, anyway, in a bathroom).

Unless of course you notify your local council's "building control dept"
beforehand, and have them check the installation afterwards (for the
princely sum of £75), but then if you don't tell them who's to know what
you're doing in your own home?

(disclaimer: not that I advocate illegal activities of course, merely
highlighting a point).


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
"Dark Angel's Realm of Horror" - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk
"Realm of Horror Radio" - http://www.live365.com/stations/313834

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?

You failed to hire an electrician.

I'm all in favour of DIY electrics for those who understand the principles.
Those who don't might find them less likely to burn down the house by
bringing in professional help when the basic principles are not understood.

Christian.

"Dark Angel" wrote in message
...

"AJB" wrote in message...
(And it's now illegal, anyway, in a bathroom).

Unless of course you notify your local council's "building control dept"
beforehand, and have them check the installation afterwards (for the
princely sum of £75), but then if you don't tell them who's to know what
you're doing in your own home?

(disclaimer: not that I advocate illegal activities of course, merely
highlighting a point).


It's actually classed as changing like for like in this case, and so does
not need to be notified to the BCO office.

If the OP was changing the wiring and the style and position of the light
fitting, then the installation would need to be certified by a registered
electrical company, or through the notification scheme now rallied in the
Part P building regulation amendment. But he's not.

BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

--
Chris Green

"BigWallop" wrote in message...
It's actually classed as changing like for like in this case, and so does
not need to be notified to the BCO office.

Really? It was my understanding that any electrical work undertaken in a
Bathroom, or Kitchen, required notifying your local council?


--
Best Wishes
Simon (aka Dark Angel)
"Dark Angel's Realm of Horror" - http://www.realmofhorror.co.uk
"Realm of Horror Radio" - http://www.live365.com/stations/313834

"Dark Angel" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message...
It's actually classed as changing like for like in this case, and so
does
not need to be notified to the BCO office.

Really? It was my understanding that any electrical work undertaken in a
Bathroom, or Kitchen, required notifying your local council?


Nothing of a swap like for like needs notified. It's only new installations
and major alterations to existing wiring and fittings that need to be
notified and certificated.

wrote in message ...
BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is
not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Chris Green


What?

Thanks for the reply. That is what I have done - much head scratching from
me as to why it doesn't work... Time to call an electrician.

Ian
"AJB" wrote in message
...
It's _probably_

The light has 3 connections - Live, Neutral and earth. It hopefully also
has an additional choc block connection that doesn't actually connect to
a wire within the light.

You've got 6 cables. Presumably two outer cables each containing a red,
a black and an earth.

Two earths connect together, and connect to the 'earth' on the new
light.

Two reds connect together, and connect to the choc block connection in
the new light that's the spare.

One of the blacks connects to the neutral of the new light. One connects
to the live. If it doesn't indicate a specific live and neutral, it
doesn't matter which way round. If the new fluro prefers live and
neutral in specific positions, you ought to know which of the two mains
cables is permanent live and which goes to the light switch... Which
means you might need to test it...

But, if you don't know how to connect a light up, you probably shouldn't
be doing this anyway.

(And it's now illegal, anyway, in a bathroom).

A.




In article , says...
Hi,

I have installed a new bathroom light. (changed from a 60w bulb to a 38w
fluorescent) I have 2 cables coming into the light each containing a red,
black and earth core.

My old light had the 2 reds connected to each other using chocolate block,
the 2 earths to an earth terminal and each black to its own terminal. If
I
do the same with the new light it remains on permanently. I have swapped
the
blacks around and there is no change. (The instructions with the light
states to connect the reds to live, black to neutral, and earths to earth
terminal. This just trips the breaker.)

Can you help me - what have I done wrong?
Thanks
Ian

Thanks for the reply. I would hire an electrician if I was installing
something from scratch, but changing like for like shouldn't be too much of
a problem. In this case it seems to be a problem, so I will probably hire in
an electrician to sort things out for me. If anyone has any other
suggestions I will be all ears!

Ian
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Can you help me - what have I done wrong?

You failed to hire an electrician.

I'm all in favour of DIY electrics for those who understand the principles.
Those who don't might find them less likely to burn down the house by
bringing in professional help when the basic principles are not understood.

Christian.

"Ian" wrote in message ...
Thanks for the reply. I would hire an electrician if I was installing
something from scratch, but changing like for like shouldn't be too much
of
a problem. In this case it seems to be a problem, so I will probably hire
in
an electrician to sort things out for me. If anyone has any other
suggestions I will be all ears!


It isn't difficult Ian, it's just wrong marking on the existing cables
that's got you confused. One of the black wires is being used as a live
feed from the switch to the light fitting, and this is normal.

All you need is the two black wires to the light fitting, and leave the red
wires connected together in the choc-block. Connect the earth wires to the
fitting as normal.

How it's been done is.

The live feed from the breaker has been taken directly to the switch via the
choc-block.

The black wire has been taken from the switch to the light fitting as a
continuation of the red wire, but it hasn't been marked properly as such.

The black wire from the light fitting goes back to the fuse box to finish
the circuit.

So, as you see, it isn't difficult when it's broken down to its basic
configuration really.

wrote in message ...
On 21 Jul,
"BigWallop" wrote:


"Dark Angel" wrote in message
...

"AJB" wrote in message...
(And it's now illegal, anyway, in a bathroom).

Unless of course you notify your local council's "building control
dept"
beforehand, and have them check the installation afterwards (for the
princely sum of £75), but then if you don't tell them who's to know
what
you're doing in your own home?

(disclaimer: not that I advocate illegal activities of course, merely
highlighting a point).


It's actually classed as changing like for like in this case, and so
does
not need to be notified to the BCO office.

If the OP was changing the wiring and the style and position of the
light
fitting, then the installation would need to be certified by a
registered
electrical company, or through the notification scheme now rallied in
the
Part P building regulation amendment. But he's not.

But he isnt changing like for like. He's replacing an incandescent holder
for
a flourescent fitting.

B Thumbs


But he's not changing the position of the fitting, or introducing any new
wiring configurations into the scheme. The light fitting isn't of a hugely
differing load to any other normal light fitting, and because it's of a
different means of light production makes no difference in this either.
It's classed as a swap like for like in this case.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:18:19 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


"Ian" wrote in message ...
Thanks for the reply. I would hire an electrician if I was installing
something from scratch, but changing like for like shouldn't be too much
of
a problem. In this case it seems to be a problem, so I will probably hire
in
an electrician to sort things out for me. If anyone has any other
suggestions I will be all ears!


It isn't difficult Ian, it's just wrong marking on the existing cables
that's got you confused. One of the black wires is being used as a live
feed from the switch to the light fitting, and this is normal.

All you need is the two black wires to the light fitting, and leave the red
wires connected together in the choc-block. Connect the earth wires to the
fitting as normal.

How it's been done is.

The live feed from the breaker has been taken directly to the switch via the
choc-block.

The black wire has been taken from the switch to the light fitting as a
continuation of the red wire, but it hasn't been marked properly as such.

The black wire from the light fitting goes back to the fuse box to finish
the circuit.

So, as you see, it isn't difficult when it's broken down to its basic
configuration really.

Just a thought here. The OP stated that if hooked up to both blacks,
(which sounds correct to me given how we're all picturing the wiring)
the light remains on _permanently_. Also that if connected with
red-red, black-black etc, it blows the breaker. (this second is not
surprising IF the switch is *on*, but shouldn't occur if it's off). I
am wondering "shorted/broken switch maybe?".

--
The follies which a man regrets most in his life are those
which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity.
- Helen Rowland

Chip wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:18:19 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
Just a thought here. The OP stated that if hooked up to both blacks,
(which sounds correct to me given how we're all picturing the wiring)
the light remains on _permanently_. Also that if connected with
red-red, black-black etc, it blows the breaker. (this second is not
surprising IF the switch is *on*, but shouldn't occur if it's off). I
am wondering "shorted/broken switch maybe?".

You're right, it shouldn't have been able to be stuck permanently on. Can't
see any way that could happen except for a shorted switch.

Can the OP try a different switch?

Also, were the connections (choc strip etc.) definitely definitely not
making contact through loose strands, via the metal casing etc?

BigWallop wrote:

wrote in message ...
BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is
not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Chris Green


What?

I mark the black switched live wire with a red sleeve, that's what.

--
Chris Green

wrote in message ...
BigWallop wrote:

wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with
a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but
this is
not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Chris Green


What?

I mark the black switched live wire with a red sleeve, that's what.

Chris Green


Well done!!! Here's a Coconut. And, could you close the door on your way
out, please. :-)

Thanks for all your replies - the problem is now fixed.
Having removed the old light, which was working fine, and replaced with a
new light, which wasn't, the solution was a new switch.
Why it should have failed in the short time taken to replace the light, I
don't know. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Again, many thanks for all your help.
Ian

"PC Paul" wrote in message
o.uk...
Chip wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:18:19 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
Just a thought here. The OP stated that if hooked up to both blacks,
(which sounds correct to me given how we're all picturing the wiring)
the light remains on _permanently_. Also that if connected with
red-red, black-black etc, it blows the breaker. (this second is not
surprising IF the switch is *on*, but shouldn't occur if it's off). I
am wondering "shorted/broken switch maybe?".

You're right, it shouldn't have been able to be stuck permanently on. Can't
see any way that could happen except for a shorted switch.

Can the OP try a different switch?

Also, were the connections (choc strip etc.) definitely definitely not
making contact through loose strands, via the metal casing etc?

Ian wrote:
Thanks for all your replies - the problem is now fixed.
Having removed the old light, which was working fine, and replaced with a
new light, which wasn't, the solution was a new switch.
Why it should have failed in the short time taken to replace the light, I
don't know. Does anyone have any suggestions?

You shorted the switch across the live and neutral (remember the MCB
tripped). You killed the switch.

Owain

Ian wrote:
Thanks for all your replies - the problem is now fixed.
Having removed the old light, which was working fine, and replaced
with a new light, which wasn't, the solution was a new switch.
Why it should have failed in the short time taken to replace the
light, I don't know. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Again, many thanks for all your help.
Ian

"PC Paul" wrote in message
o.uk...
Chip wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:18:19 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
Just a thought here. The OP stated that if hooked up to both blacks,
(which sounds correct to me given how we're all picturing the wiring)
the light remains on _permanently_. Also that if connected with
red-red, black-black etc, it blows the breaker. (this second is not
surprising IF the switch is *on*, but shouldn't occur if it's off). I
am wondering "shorted/broken switch maybe?".

You're right, it shouldn't have been able to be stuck permanently on.
Can't see any way that could happen except for a shorted switch.

Can the OP try a different switch?

Also, were the connections (choc strip etc.) definitely definitely not
making contact through loose strands, via the metal casing etc?

Hmm.

The contacts will weld themselves shut if it is shorting (and hence popping
the breaker). Did you do that first?

Why it should have failed in the short time taken to replace the light, I
don't know. Does anyone have any suggestions?

The new light is fluorescent, which is a partially inductive load. It places
far more strain on the switching contacts than a purely resistive load, such
as a standard light bulb. If the contacts were on their last legs, the
nature of the load may have fused them together.

Christian.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Ian wrote:
Thanks for all your replies - the problem is now fixed.
Having removed the old light, which was working fine, and replaced with
a
new light, which wasn't, the solution was a new switch.
Why it should have failed in the short time taken to replace the light,
I
don't know. Does anyone have any suggestions?

You shorted the switch across the live and neutral (remember the MCB
tripped). You killed the switch.

Owain


You Switch Murderer you!!!! :-) LOL

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:59 +0000, usenet wrote:

BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Under BigWallops law, your not normal G.

Dave

"dave stanton" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:59 +0000, usenet wrote:

BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this
is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Under BigWallops law, your not normal G.

Dave


ROFL!!!! Yeah, you're right!!! So get all that namby pamby red sleeving
off the blacks now, Nancy Boy!!! ROFL!!!!

I actually admire someone that takes pride in doing a job properly, because
they are actually becoming the exception rather than the norm' now'a'days.
So good on ya' mate.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:36:20 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


"dave stanton" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:59 +0000, usenet wrote:

BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this
is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Under BigWallops law, your not normal G.

Dave


ROFL!!!! Yeah, you're right!!! So get all that namby pamby red sleeving
off the blacks now, Nancy Boy!!! ROFL!!!!

I actually admire someone that takes pride in doing a job properly, because
they are actually becoming the exception rather than the norm' now'a'days.
So good on ya' mate.

Interesting question, now does the sleeving on old red/black have to
be changed to brown sleeving on both cores if and when you change a
switch? g

--
The follies which a man regrets most in his life are those
which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity.
- Helen Rowland

"Chip" wrote in message
n.net...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:36:20 GMT,it is alleged that "BigWallop"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


"dave stanton" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:59 +0000, usenet wrote:

BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with
a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but
this
is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

Under BigWallops law, your not normal G.

Dave


ROFL!!!! Yeah, you're right!!! So get all that namby pamby red sleeving
off the blacks now, Nancy Boy!!! ROFL!!!!

I actually admire someone that takes pride in doing a job properly,
because
they are actually becoming the exception rather than the norm'
now'a'days.
So good on ya' mate.

Interesting question, now does the sleeving on old red/black have to
be changed to brown sleeving on both cores if and when you change a
switch? g


That is an interesting question. I suppose with all the new parts coming in
to use, then the new harmonized colours could actually be changed as you go
along.

Good point. :-)

You Switch Murderer you!!!! :-) LOL

I hang my head in shame.... I think (hope) the switch was on it's last legs.
I suspect following the instructions did more harm than good. Let that be a
lesson to us all - ignore all instruction sheets! :)

Thanks again to everyone.
Ian

"Ian" wrote in message ...


You Switch Murderer you!!!! :-) LOL

I hang my head in shame.... I think (hope) the switch was on it's last
legs.
I suspect following the instructions did more harm than good. Let that be
a
lesson to us all - ignore all instruction sheets! :)

Thanks again to everyone.
Ian


Let's put it down to in-house euthanasia then. :-) LOL

In article ,
writes:
BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

I have found enough cases of it threaded on the wrong wire
that I never trust it, and it would be better if it was
never done IMHO.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
writes:
BigWallop wrote:

The black used as the live feed should really have been marked with a
piece
of red sleeving to denote it as a live wire from the switch, but this
is not
normally done in real life.

Well I do it, and I'm alive.

I have found enough cases of it threaded on the wrong wire
that I never trust it, and it would be better if it was
never done IMHO.

Andrew Gabriel


To most who know how the circuit should be wired, then sleeving on things
can sometimes be confusing. I bet you're like many Andrew, who see a
different coloured sleeve and stop for a second or two to make sure it's the
wire that you know it should be underneath. :-) Always best to make sure.
eh?

speaking as a qualified electrician ,
switch lives should always be flagged ,
if a cable is flagged red , and you change the switch , you don't need to flag it brown ,
if installing a flourescent fitting in a bathroom it must be vapour proof .
if you don't know what you are doing employ someone who does .

In message , Tony
writes

speaking as a qualified electrician ,
switch lives should always be flagged ,
if a cable is flagged red , and you change the switch , you don't need
to flag it brown ,
if installing a flourescent fitting in a bathroom it must be vapour
proof .
if you don't know what you are doing employ someone who does .


Or ask

--
geoff