"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Because of everything.

Do you ever actually read your posts? Do they make sense in your
world?

In the real world they do. I an not in Star Trek land.

"Are you the antiChrist..."
"Why..."
"Because of everything"

??



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

So you are one of those too. I always wondered what sort of people
watched
Sky 1.

Now look here - you can say what you like about magnetic water
softeners, talk as much crap as you like about insulation, and
come up with all manner of bizzare theories which violate all
known laws of physics, but I *won't* hear a word against Star Trek.

--
Grunff


Now, now - he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR braindead Troll.
Just keep throwing him the odd bone to gnaw and he will be here for years
frightening unwary visitors.

Dave R

In article , abuse-imm (a) writes:

"The engines will nae take it captain", etc...

a So you are one of those too. I always wondered what sort of people watched
a Sky 1.

Star Trek has not been on Sky 1, other than one episode broadcast so
audience could look up Michelle Nichols's skirt, for as long as I have
had cable. Pity.

--
Mail me as _O_
|

"David W.E. Roberts" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

So you are one of those too. I always wondered what sort of people
watched
Sky 1.

Now look here - you can say what you like about magnetic water
softeners, talk as much crap as you like about insulation, and
come up with all manner of bizzare theories which violate all
known laws of physics, but I *won't* hear a word against Star Trek.

Now, now - he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR braindead Troll.
Just keep throwing him the odd bone to gnaw and he will be here for years
frightening unwary visitors.

Wow! another spotter! He goes to bed with steam train manuals under his
pillow.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

Richard Caley wrote:

Star Trek has not been on Sky 1, other than one episode broadcast so
audience could look up Michelle Nichols's skirt, for as long as I have
had cable. Pity.

pedantic trekky

_N_ichelle Nichols

/pedantic trekky

--
Grunff

In article , David W E Roberts (dwer) writes:

dwer As with most things 'Microsoft', Outlook Express was bought in from an
dwer outside company because it was so far superior to anything M$
dwer had in house.

Indeed, the many people who praise or attack M$ as a technology
company completely miss the point. M$ started out as a technology
company, producing Basic for personal 70s computers for instance, then
got handed an amazing marketing base for their **** poor CPM clone
when it was adopted by IBM. Since then they have been an amazingly
sucessful marketing company, buying in technology and turning it into
sucessful products.

This is why they have such a bad record on security and stability. The
fundementals of most of their products are not theirs and in any case
their business model doesn't allow them to do more than beat about
with the surface bits and get it out the door.

dwer I presume that the mail/news agent of choice in future will be Outlook?

From a statement I read it looks more like they would like to persuade
people to move to web based services like hotmail. The depressing
thing is that there might be enough suckers for this to work. Their
primary goal is to ensure that people become more and more totally
dependent on them. They were really ****ed off when the internet took
off and sank the planned MSN, and have been working towards getting
back on route to the goal of all windows users being trapped into a M$
propriatary online system ever since.

dwer I know it is fashionable to knock all things M$ but OE does seem to work!

Are you a virus writer? :-)

--
Mail me as _O_
|

"Richard Caley" MY_FIRST_NAME @ MY_LAST_NAME.org.uk wrote in message
...
In article , David W E
Roberts (dwer) writes:

snip
dwer I know it is fashionable to knock all things M$ but OE does seem to
work!

Are you a virus writer? :-)

I deplore easy targets :-)

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:09:56 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

So you are one of those too. I always wondered what sort of people
watched
Sky 1.

Now look here - you can say what you like about magnetic water
softeners, talk as much crap as you like about insulation, and
come up with all manner of bizzare theories which violate all
known laws of physics, but I *won't* hear a word against Star Trek.

--
Grunff


Now, now - he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR braindead Troll.
Just keep throwing him the odd bone to gnaw and he will be here for years
frightening unwary visitors.

Dave R


He reminds me very much of Gollum, in Lord of the Rings.

The similarity of thought processes and conflict of emotions are
remarkably similar.

For a visualisation and a good laugh, take a look at his award
acceptance video from the MTV Movie Awards.

http://www.theonering.net/staticnews/1054890864.html


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
So having a final release of OE is not likely to inconvenience most
users
and should be viable for at least 10 years.

No big deal then :-)

The big deal is that OE is the target for viruses. When and if Outlook
has
a news server function, then this will become the target. So little
change,
or have M$ written some real tight code to prevent/minimise idiots playing
out with it? For such a large company with a bottomless pit of money, I
find it inconceivable that they can't write secure software.

Why should software written by a committee of maintenance programmers be
more functional and secure than software written by a small group of
dedicated enthusiasts?

I find it (almost) inconceivable that a large(ish) Government with
(relatively) bottomless pits of money can produce so much crap software over
budget and late. However, they are pretty consistent. Large projects and
large companies do not generally produce excellence because the drag factor
of all the workplace politicians and niche cloggers destroys most true
innovation.

As suggested elswhere M$ recognise this, and buy in innovative ideas.

However once they get their hands on them the committee strikes!

The main problem with OE (as with many other M$ products) is the shoehorning
in of interfaces to other M$ products.
Giving loads of APIs to a product then opens it up to (gasp) access by
external programs.
Not surprising that not all external programs are friendly.

The best way to fix the M$ mess is to break the software up into chunks
which have to compete with outside innovators for market share.
Not difficult to predict the result, which is why M$ are so against the
idea.

But then I'm just a cynic :-)
Dave R

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

He reminds me very much of Gollum, in Lord of the Rings.

So we a spotter who watches Star Trek, read about Goblins and a Harry Potter
fan. My God!!

Andy, when you go to bed do you put your CAT boots on the dresser, so you
can see them from bed?



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

The big deal is that OE is the target
for viruses. When and if Outlook has
a news server function, then this will
become the target.

Rubbish - you know nothing about software.

The vulnerabilities in OE are in 95% of
cases also present in Outlook, inherited
from the same controls (iexplore in most cases).

This spotter can't read. I never said Outlook was better written than OE.
I said "When and if Outlook has a news server function, then this will
become the target.". that is clear, but maybe not from your galaxy.

And presumably a news *client* function?

So little change,
or have M$ written some real tight code to prevent/minimise idiots
playing
out with it? For such a large company with a bottomless pit of money, I
find it inconceivable that they can't write secure software.

And yet you continue to use it.

Most viruses come via emails, not news posts. I only use OE for news.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:07:11 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:

[snip]

Are Microsoft developing anything further?
Windows XP seems to be due to be around for quite a while.
Perhaps Microsoft have worked out that the benefits of future developments
are outweighed by the escalating costs.

If you have a 2GHZ PC with 0.5Gb memory and Windows XP that should do you
for most purposes until the hardware fails due to old age.

Don't try Microsoft's FS 2004 on it! ;O)

And given that my old P120 (From around 1995 IIRC) is still running and can
handle Linux (use to run NT4 workstation and server just fine) what is the
benefit in onward development? There must be a vast user base with no plans
to change.

Hmm.. there really are changes afoot at MS, the FS I referred to above
for example; they used to release Flightsim, and then about a year
later they'd update it to fix the bugs, then they'd announce a new one
and so the (more recently) 2 year cycle would go along. However they
have stopped doing the update, which means you got to upgrade to get
bug fixes, or live with the bugs. I'm not sure how I feel about that
proposition to be honest.

Further, they have made a really rather good (in my view) range of
game controllers (sidewinder, which for the most part have been very
well made and nicely designed, the software with them has been a tad
variable from time to time). They also brand good mice and keyboards.
(Well, I like the ones I have had so far, and I'm pretty picky!)
However they have announced that the game controllers are to be
discontinued sadly - I'll miss them myself.

So here we are with OE and for all we know IE being chopped (I
wouldn't be all that surprised), and XP seemingly here for the very
long run.

Sure looks like a shifting of longer term direction to me. Disaster
management?

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:46:34 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:

But then I'm just a cynic :-)
Dave R

To your credit, you probably didn't get that way on your own - you had
help from others I'd wager! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:46:21 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Will you please put me on your killfile.

That is quite possibly the stupidest request I've ever had!!

hmm. he may have a point for a change - I kill filed him and things
were nice and peaceful since by and large, but the only rancid little
reminder I get of his existence is when you reply to something he's
dribbled, and if you had him kill filed, then it wouldn't be there.

If someone's ****ing you off, you don't beg them to killfile
you, you killfile them. Which part of that logic defeats you?

So using the logic, I have to point out, people who frequently feed
the troll are under consideration for the kill file, which is not what
I would want to have chosen as a solution, as you often make sense as
a group, as far as I can tell. The Logic is compelling as you say, but
this can't make for a best solution despite how logical it is. Bottom
line is - he's a pain so I kill file him and all of you who feed him?
how the hell is that a good solution? ;O) Mind you he isn't "****ing
me off" as you say, but I'd rather not read all the same, so maybe
this means the application of the logic is wrong? Life's too short for
this! ;O) sigh

If only the longer term members would KF him, then maybe, with a
reduced platform, there'd be less point him being here, of course the
flaw in that is that he has to be bright enough to see it too,
but......... ;O) Nuff said.

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

"Gnube" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:46:21 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Will you please put me on your killfile.

That is quite possibly the stupidest request I've ever had!!

It is not! Put me on your killfile.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

Gnube wrote:

If only the longer term members would KF him, then maybe, with a
reduced platform, there'd be less point him being here, of course the
flaw in that is that he has to be bright enough to see it too,
but......... ;O) Nuff said.

Ah, but you make one flawed assumption - that without IMM,
uk.d-i-y would be troll free. I don't believe that would happen.

A group as busy as this is bound to attract trolls, and having
one "house" troll who is well known to the group, who deters
other trolls from participating, is preferable to having a whole
bunch of them. A case of "better the troll you know".

As DWER put it, "he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR
braindead Troll."

That's what I think anyway. I've yet to see a Utopian NG with no
trolls.

But I do take your point about my responding to his posts
negating you killfiling him - I can't think of a good solution,
but I apologise for the inconvenience.

--
Grunff

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:34:01 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Don't have Sky,

What, you not got that blue thing outside the window, where the hell
are you? ;O)

or CAT boots.

Don't have a cat, so it sure won't need boots!

Don't believe in God either.

There's plainly nothing recent or local that would stand even the
slightest scrutiny or the smallest "request for supporting evidence"
to have faith in. There's some rumours about days of yore for sure,
but it's all over now by the looks of things.

It's possible I might be persuaded that there's a devil, I'm pretty
sure I've seen her handy-work on occasion. I sometimes wonder if
that's what's really alluded to by the phrase "Mother Nature"?

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:34:31 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Because of everything.

Do you ever actually read your posts? Do they make sense in your
world?

"Are you the antiChrist..."
"Why..."
"Because of everything"

Sure looks like recreational pharmaceutical abuse! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
sbip drivel

Please put me on your killfile.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:25:31 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

is that we don't have to fix the bugs in Outlook Express"

LOL! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

geoff wrote:

BEN -IMM is our Clockwork Orange

Noted. Cheers Geoff.

--
Ben Blaney
GSF1200 VFR800 CBR600 CD200
"We stopped only for fuel"

ISPs supporting something other than OE? Blimey!
There's an opening for some piece of software there.

Toby.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Now, now - he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR braindead Troll.
Just keep throwing him the odd bone to gnaw and he will be here for
years frightening unwary visitors.

Wow! another spotter! He goes to bed with steam train manuals under his
pillow.

You seem to have a thing about spotting and bedclothes. Problem?

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:07:25 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Gnube" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:46:21 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Will you please put me on your killfile.

That is quite possibly the stupidest request I've ever had!!

It is not! Put me on your killfile.

Masochist: "Whip me, whip me!"

Sadist: "No!"


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:12:20 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Gnube wrote:

If only the longer term members would KF him, then maybe, with a
reduced platform, there'd be less point him being here, of course the
flaw in that is that he has to be bright enough to see it too,
but......... ;O) Nuff said.

Ah, but you make one flawed assumption - that without IMM,
uk.d-i-y would be troll free. I don't believe that would happen.

Can't blame a bloke for reaching out for it when it looks so easy to
reach! ;O)

A group as busy as this is bound to attract trolls, and having
one "house" troll who is well known to the group, who deters
other trolls from participating, is preferable to having a whole
bunch of them. A case of "better the troll you know".

Possibly, but I'm not able to be fully sure, maybe it's just too
radical for me! ;O)

As DWER put it, "he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR
braindead Troll."

I saw that, wondered what might have been smoked to think it! ;O)

That's what I think anyway. I've yet to see a Utopian NG with no
trolls.

I imagine it'd be quite nice.

But I do take your point about my responding to his posts
negating you killfiling him - I can't think of a good solution,
but I apologise for the inconvenience.

Hmm given all you 've said, what do you reckon, un-KF him and try to
enjoy abusing him along with everyone else? Seems a bit strong but
can't see any point doing much else. sigh

thinks aloud
We could try that weather-lawyer item, that's pretty toxic to just
about anything it touches, maybe it'd be like a sink pipe clearing
fluid for trolls. But then again, you're right, since this is one
useless troll, where's the harm, it keeps our count up, so keeps the
nasty stuff away. Yeah, I may even un-KF it if I get bored enough.
thinks aquiet again

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

Surely his diy projects should be very imaginative??
Regards
Capitol

IMM wrote in message ...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

He reminds me very much of Gollum, in Lord of the Rings.

So we a spotter who watches Star Trek, read about Goblins and a Harry
Potter
fan. My God!!

Andy, when you go to bed do you put your CAT boots on the dresser, so you
can see them from bed?



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

In message , Gnube
writes
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:09:56 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

So you are one of those too. I always wondered what sort of people
watched
Sky 1.

Now look here - you can say what you like about magnetic water
softeners, talk as much crap as you like about insulation, and
come up with all manner of bizzare theories which violate all
known laws of physics, but I *won't* hear a word against Star Trek.

--
Grunff


Now, now - he may be a braindead Troll but he is OUR braindead Troll.
Just keep throwing him the odd bone to gnaw and he will be here for years
frightening unwary visitors.

I've wrestled with this for 5 minutes now and I still can't decide if
this is a good thing or if this is a bad thing! ;O)

Well, it is entertaining
--
geoff

Gnube wrote:

Hmm given all you 've said, what do you reckon, un-KF him and try to
enjoy abusing him along with everyone else? Seems a bit strong but
can't see any point doing much else. sigh

It's kind of a local past time. Support your local troll and all
that.

--
Grunff

In message , Grunff
writes
Richard Caley wrote:

Star Trek has not been on Sky 1, other than one episode broadcast so
audience could look up Michelle Nichols's skirt, for as long as I have
had cable. Pity.

pedantic trekky

_N_ichelle Nichols

/pedantic trekky

Not Nickerless then
--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"Gnube" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:46:21 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Will you please put me on your killfile.

That is quite possibly the stupidest request I've ever had!!

It is not! Put me on your killfile.

It's not "on" it's "in" - logicboi
--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
sbip drivel

Please put me on your killfile.

John - this is a newsgroup, not an echo chamber - DIY
--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

So little change,
or have M$ written some real tight code to prevent/minimise idiots
playing
out with it? For such a large company with a bottomless pit of money, I
find it inconceivable that they can't write secure software.

And yet you continue to use it.

Most viruses come via emails, not news posts. I only use OE for news.

Better be careful when you're downloading those binaries then ...
--
geoff

Andy Hall wrote in
:


I wonder if it's a matter/anti-matter thing?

Shouldn't think it matters

mike r

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:14:07 UTC, "IMM" wrote:

The big deal is that OE is the target for viruses. When and if Outlook has
a news server function, then this will become the target.

Why on earth would it need a news server function? It's a client
program...

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70, PC/AT..

On 15 Aug 2003 20:59:39 GMT, (Huge) wrote:

"Frank" writes:

main problem with Agent and infact a lot of other news readers is the lack
of native SSL suport

Why in the name of God would you want to read News with SSL?

Well packet sniffing of the groups you read can be quite revealing...

Jim.

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

Surely his diy projects should be very imaginative??
Regards
Capitol

I'm, sure Andy's are.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

IMM wrote:

In the real world they do. I an not in Star Trek land.

You do klingon to this group though.... ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:07:25 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Gnube" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:46:21 +0100, Grunff wrote:

IMM wrote:

Will you please put me on your killfile.

That is quite possibly the stupidest request I've ever had!!

It is not! Put me on your killfile.

Masochist: "Whip me, whip me!"

Sadist: "No!"

Amazing!! Literally amazing!


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

"Gnube" wrote in message
...

A group as busy as this is bound to attract trolls, and having
one "house" troll who is well known to the group, who deters
other trolls from participating, is preferable to having a whole
bunch of them. A case of "better the troll you know".

Possibly, but I'm not able to be fully sure, maybe it's just too
radical for me! ;O)

It is. Stick to Sky 1.

snip drivel


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:14:07 UTC, "IMM" wrote:

The big deal is that OE is the target for viruses. When and if Outlook
has
a news server function, then this will become the target.

Why on earth would it need a news server function? It's a client
program...

Some here said was to have one. Duh!!!


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 04/08/2003