 |
|
| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
| Reply |
|
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
How do I get 2 showers to work at same time off one combi boiler?
Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially
I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? Thanks for your help, Ellen |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
Ellen Rawlinson wrote:
Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? It is extrremely doubtful that a cheapo combi will have suffuicuinet power to heat two showers going flat out simultaneously. Combis I have expereinced struiggle to geat evben one, but then, I am not a fan of combis The solution is eiher a much bigger combi to cope with peak demands, or a heat bank - which is basically a fancy name for a sort of hot water tank- or a mains pressure boiler and pressurised hot water tank. Cost and avaiable space will decide which is your best option. What I tink is teh worts of all possible worlds ins a normal un pressurised system with hot water cylinder and elkectric pumps to get teh pressure. I costed out various alternatives in my build, and space not being a problem,. decided on mains pressure boiler and hot water tank. Even that struggles with teh whole family here for holidays etc. I like a huge hot bath, and that takes about 50% of a tank. I susp[ect a BIG combi might have been cheaper, but even then two shower max seems to be the order of the day. I had little space for boilers but a lot for a water tank...so there ya go. Thanks for your help, Ellen |
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
In article ,
Ellen Rawlinson wrote: Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same temperatures as an electric shower from a combi. -- *Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Ellen Rawlinson wrote: Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same temperatures as an electric shower from a combi. There is another advantage of fitting an electric shower in this scenario... as you have no immersion heater, consider what happens if your combi breaks down: your 6 tenants are without any form of central heating or (more importantly) hot water. You'll be frantically trying to get an emergency plumber to fix it; and what happens if he can't get the parts for a couple of days? Answer - you'll be footing the bill for alternative accomodation for your tenants. Having an electric shower, completely independent of the combi, gives you a bit of flexibility at least if the worst happens: at least the tenants can still wash! David |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Ellen Rawlinson wrote: Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? It is extrremely doubtful that a cheapo combi will have suffuicuinet power to heat two showers going flat out simultaneously. Combis I have expereinced struiggle to geat evben one, but then, I am not a fan of combis The solution is eiher a much bigger combi to cope with peak demands, or a heat bank - which is basically a fancy name for a sort of hot water tank- It isn't. I costed out various alternatives in my build, and space not being a problem,. decided on mains pressure boiler What is thsi? _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Tell him to stick to drains. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly, using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the non-return valves. Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the gas meter. Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower. Combi's are cheap. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, Hi Ellen, We successfully run two showers at the same time from one combi. It's an oil-fired Trianco unit. Basically the flow rate reduces when both showers are in use, but they are still perfectly usable. As one of the other posters said, even when used like this the flow is still comparable or better than many electric showers I've used. One of the showers has a thermostatic mixer (the kids use this one), while the other has a manual temperature/flow control. If you're using the thermostatic one the only thing you notice is that the flow slows down a bit. When using the non-thermostatic one you need to turn it a bit hotter than normal to compensate. They're both in use most mornings as eneryone tries to get freshened up and out of the house at the same time! Cheers Splodge |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lobster" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Ellen Rawlinson wrote: Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? It is certainly possible to get the same sort of flow at the same temperatures as an electric shower from a combi. There is another advantage of fitting an electric shower in this scenario... as you have no immersion heater, consider what happens if your combi breaks down: your 6 tenants are without any form of central heating or (more importantly) hot water. You'll be frantically trying to get an emergency plumber to fix it; and what happens if he can't get the parts for a couple of days? Answer - you'll be footing the bill for alternative accomodation for your tenants. So, you fit two combi's. Divide and rule. Simple cheap and easy, and at least one shower will be working at any one time. See my other post on this. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Peter Parry" wrote in message ... On 9 Apr 2005 06:14:04 -0700, (Ellen Rawlinson) wrote: I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even worse. So, not a constructive post. Doom and gloom which we all know anyway. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly, using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the non-return valves. Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the gas meter. Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower. Combi's are cheap. But the work to install all of the above isn't..... |
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for 2 electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis. But to respond to your specific question it may be helpful to look at electrical shower outputs. These are commonly 8.5kW, 9.5kW or 10.5kW. A combi is 24kW, 28kW or 35kW electrical equivalent. So in heating terms a combi produces more hot water than 2 electric showers. If there is good mains pressure it should be easy to equitably share the flow by plumbing the showers in small enough bore. IME the Screwfix bar mixer works well across a range of pressures. Of course you have got to stop the other bath grabbing too much water as well. Its really a design problem which is probably why the plumber is struggling. He may also know a friendly electrician because for 2 electric showers you will definately need a good one. If there is poor cold pressure you are stuffed either way. Anyway its rented accomodation, has to be safe but who says it has to be good? Or have matters improved since I was in rented accom.... Jim A |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly, using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the non-return valves. Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the gas meter. Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower. Combi's are cheap. But the work to install all of the above isn't..... Combi's are one box solutions, the simplest and easiest method of installation. This place is to have 6 people showering in the morning. Say the average shower is 100 litres of hot water. That is a 600 litres of water requiring storage. A hell of a lot. Even 500 litres is a hell of a lot, and expensive to provide storage for, with maybe the floor requiring strengthening. Only combi's with their infinitely continuous supply of hot water can provide the solution to this problem economically. Two combi's. One for each shower, join the outlets for the baths. Everyone satisfied, no digruntled tenants, no running out of hot water, and also backup. If one combi goes down, one will work giving a shower. So they will have to wait longer for a shower for a few days, but at least there will be hot water and heat in the house. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for 2 electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis. A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for 2 electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis. A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. In this case, provided the cold supply is adequate I wouldn't dismiss the suggestion out of hand, neither would I advocate it. Although there is redundancy and you could employ smaller cheaper combis, two maintenance contracts would be required. That's a business case issue for the renter. As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution depending on the weight given to various factors. Jim A |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly, using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the non-return valves. Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the gas meter. Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower. Combi's are cheap. But the work to install all of the above isn't..... Combi's are one box solutions, the simplest and easiest method of installation. This place is to have 6 people showering in the morning. Say the average shower is 100 litres of hot water. That is a 600 litres of water requiring storage. A hell of a lot. Even 500 litres is a hell of a lot, and expensive to provide storage for, with maybe the floor requiring strengthening. Only combi's with their infinitely continuous supply of hot water can provide the solution to this problem economically. Two combi's. One for each shower, join the outlets for the baths. Everyone satisfied, no digruntled tenants, no running out of hot water, and also backup. If one combi goes down, one will work giving a shower. So they will have to wait longer for a shower for a few days, but at least there will be hot water and heat in the house. What happens if either the gas or power fail, result no hot water unlike with a storage tank, OK there is only a limited supply but every one will be able to wash using flannel, soap and a bowl.... I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and storage tank. |
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. It's also crying out from an up rated electricity supply and electric showers, and if there is going to be more than one kitchen with full cooking facilities then that alone will probably mean that the cost of having the electric intake up rated has already been budgeted for. It's also crying out for a storage tank so that there is at least some hot water if there is a major breakdown of either boiler(s) or power, also a storage tank will allow water to be heated in an emergency by electricity (although expencive it will be cheaper than pitting up to six tenants into a Hotel for how ever long. This is not a clear cut plumbing decision, as someone else has said, it's a planning / business decision as well. |
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
First, check the water psi in front of home; divide by two. Hot water
usually comes out at lower psi than cold. Now, call your water supplier, ask them what is the psi to the water meter at your rental. If psi is 60 but 20 feet from the meter coming from your hose spigut, the psi is 40, than dig up water meter and take out old pipe. |
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for 2 electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis. A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. In this case, provided the cold supply is adequate I wouldn't dismiss the suggestion out of hand, neither would I advocate it. Although there is redundancy and you could employ smaller cheaper combis, two maintenance contracts would be required. Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck. That's a business case issue for the renter. As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution depending on the weight given to various factors. And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
|
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip He is wrong. Divide and rule. Try two combi's. one doing one shower, one doing the other. Combine the outlets for the baths to fill them quickly, using non-return valves and a shock arrestor on the bath side on the non-return valves. Have one combi do upstairs heating and one do downstairs. Simple and cheap and effective. Have each combi have its own gas supply right back to the gas meter. Check the mains water pressure and flow. Replace the mains stop cock with a full-bore stop cock irrespective, and have dedicated 22mm cold supplies to the combi's from the stop cock. Take the cold supply for each shower off the combi supply just before the combi. Any pressure fluctuations on that line will be equal on both cold and hot at the shower. Combi's are cheap. But the work to install all of the above isn't..... Combi's are one box solutions, the simplest and easiest method of installation. This place is to have 6 people showering in the morning. Say the average shower is 100 litres of hot water. That is a 600 litres of water requiring storage. A hell of a lot. Even 500 litres is a hell of a lot, and expensive to provide storage for, with maybe the floor requiring strengthening. Only combi's with their infinitely continuous supply of hot water can provide the solution to this problem economically. Two combi's. One for each shower, join the outlets for the baths. Everyone satisfied, no digruntled tenants, no running out of hot water, and also backup. If one combi goes down, one will work giving a shower. So they will have to wait longer for a shower for a few days, but at least there will be hot water and heat in the house. What happens if either the gas or power fail, result no hot water unlike with a storage tank, If the power fails any backup electic will fail too. OK there is only a limited supply but every one will be able to wash using flannel, soap and a bowl.... I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and storage tank. You suspect wrongly. Do you know how big a 500-600 litre cylinder is? And how much they cost? And how long it takes to recover heat? _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
|
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. It's also crying out from an up rated electricity supply and electric showers, It is not. The performance of eclectic is abysmal, adding to greenhouses gasses and costing 4 times as much to run. snip half-baked babble _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
|
"James Salisbury" wrote in message ... A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. You could, with a bit of plumbing have an unvented cylinder for the showers and baths, heated from the heating loop output of the combi, and just use the DHW output of the combi for kitchens. That way you can have lots of hot water for the baths and showers and still use the combi. Futile, as you may as well have all off the ,mains pressure unvented cylinder. Hitching combi to an unvented cylinder gives no gains. The cost of a 500-600 litre unvented cylinder is well, scary. Two combi's is cheap to install and will do the job superbly "never" running out of hot water. Small note you will need a pressure ballanced type of shower mixer. for cylinders a 210L or 250L one. Supplying 6 people in the morning. You have to be kidding, no I think you are kidding. I pity the last two or three, as they will not have a hot shower. snip misinformation about heating systems _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... In this case, provided the cold supply is adequate I wouldn't dismiss the suggestion out of hand, neither would I advocate it. Although there is redundancy and you could employ smaller cheaper combis, two maintenance contracts would be required. Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck. That's a business case issue for the renter. As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution depending on the weight given to various factors. And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions. Well its not my refurbishment (or yours). If and when there is any feedback from the OP perhaps I'll comment and suggest further. But I do agree that large storage cylinders are useless for multi-occupation. Jim A |
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... In this case, provided the cold supply is adequate I wouldn't dismiss the suggestion out of hand, neither would I advocate it. Although there is redundancy and you could employ smaller cheaper combis, two maintenance contracts would be required. Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck. That's a business case issue for the renter. As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution depending on the weight given to various factors. And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions. Well its not my refurbishment (or yours). If and when there is any feedback from the OP perhaps I'll comment and suggest further. But I do agree that large storage cylinders are useless for multi-occupation. That's better. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#26
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:36:02 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote: Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. Probably more than that. The problem of mounting two Romanian landowners side by side on the wall is not inconsiderable and maintenance would be real headache. A deal can be stuck. Undoubtedly, but which Boier would you stick it on? -- Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/ |
|
#27
|
|||
|
|||
|
Peter Parry wrote:
On 9 Apr 2005 06:14:04 -0700, (Ellen Rawlinson) wrote: I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even worse. A 24kW combi should give you two showers at least as good as the highest-powered (10.5kW) electric showers. In the depths of winter and early spring when the incoming water is cold that means you won't get a very good flow of water at a comfortably hot temperature, so make sure the bath/shower rooms are warm because otherwise it'll be a miserable experience showering. However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down (they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating. It's anathema (not to say heresy) to admit it but A Certain Person's suggestion of 2 combis for redundancy has some merit, though you need a foolproof way of knowing when one of them has failed otherwise you still only hear about it when they've both gone and there's no hot water or heating and you have to call out a heating engineer at emergency call-out rates. (And you can't rely on tenants telling you that one of the showers has packed up or there's no heating in certain rooms when you really do want to know this: ask any landlord - tenants aren't like that!) |
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... snip What happens if either the gas or power fail, result no hot water unlike with a storage tank, If the power fails any backup electic will fail too. Oh, right, so the power fails and 250 lts (or more) of hot water instantly becomes cold water does it ? You ****** ! :~( OK there is only a limited supply but every one will be able to wash using flannel, soap and a bowl.... I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and storage tank. You suspect wrongly. Do you know how big a 500-600 litre cylinder is? And how much they cost? And how long it takes to recover heat? You clueless idiot. |
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck. Bollox, buying two combies will not mean you can haggle on price. That's a business case issue for the renter. As I said its really a design issue. There is more than one solution depending on the weight given to various factors. And have not highlighted any or added any value or suggestions. Nor have you, other than your pet conbi solution whilst ignoring the real issues. |
|
#30
|
|||
|
|||
|
"James Salisbury" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... "Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? There are a lot of issues here regarding adequacy of electric supply (for 2 electric showers), adequacy of cold water pressure, adequacy of gas supply at boiler for large combi or (whispering) 2 combis. A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. You could, with a bit of plumbing have an unvented cylinder for the showers and baths, heated from the heating loop output of the combi, and just use the DHW output of the combi for kitchens. That way you can have lots of hot water for the baths and showers and still use the combi. Small note you will need a pressure ballanced type of shower mixer. Look at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/s..._Direct_Cylind er.html for cylinders a 210L or 250L one. If the mains cold water flow is poor then you could have a conventional ho****er cylinder, aagin heated by the heating loop of the combi. This requires 500-600 litres of storage for six people showering with two showers. An unvented cylinder of that size will be well north of £1000. Two combi's can be bought for far less than the price of one cylinder alone, which will do a better job never running out of hot water. Have you seen the size of 600 litre cylinder? Unvented cylinders require an annual service. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#31
|
|||
|
|||
|
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. It's also crying out from an up rated electricity supply and electric showers, It is not. The performance of electric is abysmal, adding to greenhouse gasses and costing 4 times as much to run. snip half-baked babble You didn't snip the half-baked babble, I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#32
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip A domestic supply gas supply can provide 212 cu foot an hour, about 62kW input. Two properly sized combi's can do the job no problem, with the average around 27kW. This problem is crying out for two combi's as the solution. It's also crying out from an up rated electricity supply and electric showers, It is not. The performance of eclectic is abysmal, adding to greenhouses gasses and costing 4 times as much to run. snip half-baked babble You didn't snip the half-baked babble, you left your ignorant uninformed clap-trap in. What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of electricity, clue, it's the same fuel that heats the water in a combi.... DIMM, IMM, Drivel, Dr Evil, what ever you call yourself there is one thing that is a constant, you are an ignorant little ******. |
|
#33
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip It is not. The performance of electric is abysmal, adding to greenhouse gasses and costing 4 times as much to run. snip half-baked babble You didn't snip the half-baked babble, I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus. What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of electricity, clue, it's the same fuel that heats the water in a combi.... |
|
#34
|
|||
|
|||
|
In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote: Two boiers side by side is not X 2 the cost. A deal can be stuck. Bollox, buying two combies will not mean you can haggle on price. I'm inclined to agree - especially if they're combined in such a way as IMM suggests. Most plumbers are likely to laugh at doing it that way. And since IMM thinks system boilers are the way forward because of easy installation, wonder why he suddenly needs to complicate matters? And BTW, if it's such a brilliant idea, why isn't there a system boiler made in just this fashion? -- *Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
|
#35
|
|||
|
|||
|
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote: er.html for cylinders a 210L or 250L one. If the mains cold water flow is poor then you could have a conventional ho****er cylinder, aagin heated by the heating loop of the combi. This requires 500-600 litres of storage for six people showering with two showers. An unvented cylinder of that size will be well north of £1000. Two combi's can be bought for far less than the price of one cylinder alone, which will do a better job never running out of hot water. Have you seen the size of 600 litre cylinder? Unvented cylinders require an annual service. More figures plucked from the air. IMM seems to have forgotten about fast recovery cylinders and that the chances of all six people showering directly one after the other remote. They're just as likely to get dry and dressed before the next one uses the shower. And some will prefer to shower in the evening. -- *Speak softly and carry a cellular phone * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
|
#36
|
|||
|
|||
|
:::Jerry:::: wrote: "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... snip It is not. The performance of electric is abysmal, adding to greenhouse gasses and costing 4 times as much to run. snip half-baked babble You didn't snip the half-baked babble, I did look above. You can get lesson to improve powers of focus. What is one of the main fuels used now for the generation of electricity, clue, it's the same fuel that heats the water in a combi.... Just a small point about the combi solution. Could Dr evil tell me what combi boilers could be bought as economically as he suggests. The only combi boilers I have seen ,that meet current regs, are condensing boilers which start around the =A3800 quid mark. Genuine question as someone I know needs a new combi. |
|
#37
|
|||
|
|||
|
John Stumbles wrote:
However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down (they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating. It also provides stored hot water in the event of a mains electricity or water failure. Even if the cylinder hasn't fully reheated, it will be tepidly warmer than the cold mains. Although rare, extended water and electricity failures do occur. Owain |
|
#38
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Ellen Rawlinson" wrote in message om... Hello! I'm rennovating a house that I intend to rent out. Essentially I have two bathrooms, each of which is going to have a bath with shower over. I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. Does anyone know if there's a way to run two showers (with thermostatic mixer valves) at the same time off the one combi boiler I'll be putting in, or is my plumber right? Thanks for your help, Ellen If you want / need to go the stored hot water route, have a chat with these people http://rangecylinders.co.uk/ |
|
#39
|
|||
|
|||
|
"John Stumbles" wrote in message ... Peter Parry wrote: On 9 Apr 2005 06:14:04 -0700, (Ellen Rawlinson) wrote: I want to be able to run both showers at once (as there will be six people in the house), and my plumber thinks the only way to do this is with electric showers. A cheap combi will give you a twin shower effect on a par with that achieved by using an aged and incontinent rat in place of the shower head. Two electric showers (assuming you have a single domestic supply to the house and need both to operate together and with other appliances on) may have to be so small that their effect will be even worse. A 24kW combi should give you two showers at least as good as the highest-powered (10.5kW) electric showers. In the depths of winter and early spring when the incoming water is cold that means you won't get a very good flow of water at a comfortably hot temperature, so make sure the bath/shower rooms are warm because otherwise it'll be a miserable experience showering. Electric showers are made by Satan. However if the place is for rental then as others have pointed out you really need to consider what will happen _when_ the boiler breaks down (they all do at some time or other). A stored water system (conventional gravity fed, unvented or thermal store) will allow you the option of electric backup heating for water, though not for space heating. Wrong. An integrated thermal store can have electric backup for space heating. Also the stored water, unvented cylinder or thermal store, will have to be in a very large cylinder, which is quite expensive to buy, never mind fit. anathema (not to say heresy) to admit it but A Certain Person's suggestion of 2 combis for redundancy has some merit, For for only redundancy. It will deliver the requirements more effectively and cheaper than any other method. though you need a foolproof way of knowing when one of them has failed otherwise you still only hear about it when they've both gone and there's no hot water or heating and you have to call out a heating engineer at emergency call-out rates. (And you can't rely on tenants telling you that one of the showers has packed up or there's no heating in certain rooms when you really do want to know this: ask any landlord - tenants aren't like that!) You should read. One combi does one shower one does the other. If one doesn't work with 6 people in the morning they will soon let you know. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
|
#40
|
|||
|
|||
|
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "Doctor Evil" wrote in message ... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... snip What happens if either the gas or power fail, result no hot water unlike with a storage tank, If the power fails any backup electic will fail too. Oh, right, so the power fails and 250 lts (or more) of hot water instantly becomes cold water does it ? You ****** ! :~( OK there is only a limited supply but every one will be able to wash using flannel, soap and a bowl.... I also suspect that after the cost of running two water supplies from the company valve, two gas supplies from the meter together with all the extra CH/HW pipes one could have installed a large boiler and storage tank. You suspect wrongly. Do you know how big a 500-600 litre cylinder is? And how much they cost? And how long it takes to recover heat? You clueless idiot. ...............another half-wit enters the ring.....he has been taking Plowman pills. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
| Reply |
|
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| How to find a good contractor? | Home Repair | |||
| FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, MENTAL TORTURE and BLATANT human rights violations | Woodworking | |||
| The Time The Monkey Came To Live At Rube's Shop | Woodworking | |||
Linear Mode
