This original subject was started under the heading of
" Exporting Jobs- Gee I wonder why" and quickly degenerated into one of
those endless back and forth arguments about the world economy etc.
However, the original post was about why this little piece cost 330.00.
There were some who defended the price with all sorts of stuff about shelf
storage costs, plant overhead, machine amortization, labor costs and so on.
After reading all this stuff I said to myself " Wait a minute, why has this
simple job turned into some internet version of a Government commission?
Isn't the real issue how do we get this tailstock ram at a reasonable price
to fix this old lathe." Then I remembered the old saying about " American
ingenuity" and thought, why in all this talk is there not one of these
people who can solve this simple problem. After all, aren't machinist
supposed to be problem solvers? Anyway I did some research and found the
dimensions of this item- its 6.5" long, 1" O.D. and has an MT 2 taper
inside, has a .125 slot for the key and a 10 TPI left hand acme nut in the
end. pretty simple to make on a home lathe in a few hours, but I thought
this stuff all sounds like shelf items-
Searched my catalogues and found-
1/2" 10 TPI LH acme nut for 1.26
Morse taper drill sleeve with 1" O.D. and MT 2 inside, hardened and ground-
USA version 8.00 - Import Version 2.95
Bought 2 of the nuts and 1 each of the sleeves

Cheapie version- Used the Import piece and just welded the nut to the end-
time to set up, center and weld- 5 minutes
Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes
Milled the 1/8" slot in both units- another 10 minutes.
Conclusion A- for a guy fixing his old lathe he could do a quickie fix that
works fine for 5.00 in parts and 10 minutes time. For a " restorer type" he
could duplicate the original for about 10.00 in parts and 1/2 hour of time.
Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each, just by examining the
problem and finding a simple solution
Conclusion C- Utilizing the time spent by everyone on this board yabbering
about the world economy we could have built 100 of these things.

Actually, I also solved the problem in a similar fashion, but my posted
solution which follows was lost in the pandemonium created by the original
question.

PS: problem solved-
Took an imported Morse #2 sleeve which had an OD of 28 MM and turned it down
to 1", cut off the end and drilled it through to 27/64ths and borrowed a
1/2" LH acme tap and tapped it- aside from the drive to my friend's shop
for the tap, total time 20 minutes. The only thing left is to mill the slot
for the key- If I buy the lathe I will do it after measuring the key- if not
I will send the part to the owner with my compliments.


"EdFielder" wrote in message
k.net...
This original subject was started under the heading of
" Exporting Jobs- Gee I wonder why" and quickly degenerated into one of
those endless back and forth arguments about the world economy etc.
However, the original post was about why this little piece cost 330.00.
There were some who defended the price with all sorts of stuff about shelf
storage costs, plant overhead, machine amortization, labor costs and so
on.
After reading all this stuff I said to myself " Wait a minute, why has
this
simple job turned into some internet version of a Government commission?
Isn't the real issue how do we get this tailstock ram at a reasonable
price
to fix this old lathe." Then I remembered the old saying about " American
ingenuity" and thought, why in all this talk is there not one of these
people who can solve this simple problem. After all, aren't machinist
supposed to be problem solvers? Anyway I did some research and found the
dimensions of this item- its 6.5" long, 1" O.D. and has an MT 2 taper
inside, has a .125 slot for the key and a 10 TPI left hand acme nut in
the
end. pretty simple to make on a home lathe in a few hours, but I thought
this stuff all sounds like shelf items-
Searched my catalogues and found-
1/2" 10 TPI LH acme nut for 1.26
Morse taper drill sleeve with 1" O.D. and MT 2 inside, hardened and
ground-
USA version 8.00 - Import Version 2.95
Bought 2 of the nuts and 1 each of the sleeves

Cheapie version- Used the Import piece and just welded the nut to the end-
time to set up, center and weld- 5 minutes
Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and
pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes
Milled the 1/8" slot in both units- another 10 minutes.
Conclusion A- for a guy fixing his old lathe he could do a quickie fix
that
works fine for 5.00 in parts and 10 minutes time. For a " restorer type"
he
could duplicate the original for about 10.00 in parts and 1/2 hour of
time.
Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could
not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each, just by examining the
problem and finding a simple solution
Conclusion C- Utilizing the time spent by everyone on this board yabbering
about the world economy we could have built 100 of these things.

1/2" 10 TPI LH acme nut for 1.26
Morse taper drill sleeve with 1" O.D. and MT 2 inside, hardened and ground-
USA version 8.00 - Import Version 2.95
Bought 2 of the nuts and 1 each of the sleeves

Cheapie version- Used the Import piece and just welded the nut to the end-
time to set up, center and weld- 5 minutes
Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes
Milled the 1/8" slot in both units- another 10 minutes.

First, i agree, the guy has machines, shut up and make one. But:


How would you feel if you got this[your item] from south bend?

What no engraved depth markings? does the screw still push the tool out?

the ones in my catalog are only 4 inches long, a bit stumpy.




Conclusion A- for a guy fixing his old lathe he could do a quickie fix that
works fine for 5.00 in parts and 10 minutes time.

Not true, above

For a " restorer type" he
could duplicate the original for about 10.00 in parts and 1/2 hour of time.
Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each, just by examining the
problem and finding a simple solution

Again not true, It would take a couple hours to blank one, starting with
a piece of ground stock[not free] and countless hours screwing with the
taper to get it right. unless you do tapers all the time and your taper
attachment is all dialed in. i twould take me a couple hours to clena
the crap off of mine
As I said, I would bid at least twice SB price to make one and make
money. It is NOT a high price. Problem is SB lathes aren't worth 300 bucks.

Conclusion C- Utilizing the time spent by everyone on this board yabbering
about the world economy we could have built 100 of these things.

Absolutely

In article t, EdFielder
says...

Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each,

Yes there is. They don't want to. They're not in the
parts manufacture business. They're in the "sell off whatever
stock is remaining business."

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote:

In article t, EdFielder
says...


Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each,


Yes there is. They don't want to. They're not in the
parts manufacture business. They're in the "sell off whatever
stock is remaining business."

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

Jim


And at the risk of starting a flame war on this thread too -- why not?
If you can make them at a profit for $30 bucks a pop then do so. Sell
them to folks with SB lathes, make a tidy profit, and blow raspberries
at the "where are the jobs" threads.

It's called "free enterprise", and it's a damn good way to run an
economy as long as you put _some_ limits on it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"yourname" wrote in message

How would you feel if you got this[your item] from south bend?

If I paid 330.00 I would be mad, if I paid 30.00 I would be happy.

What no engraved depth markings? does the screw still push the tool out?





It would take a couple hours to blank one, starting with
a piece of ground stock[not free] and countless hours screwing with the
taper to get it right. unless you do tapers all the time and your taper
attachment is all dialed in. i twould take me a couple hours to clena
the crap off of mine
As I said, I would bid at least twice SB price to make one and make
money. It is NOT a high price.


Are you NOT reading??!! Why in the world would you do all that blanking
and grinding when the thing is already available off the shelf for 3.00???
Are you one of those guys who builds a machine to turn his car upside down
to drain the oil?

And yes, it does pop the tool out, thats just a matter of being sure the nub
on the screw protrudes into the ram when retracted. Didn't know they had
engraved markings, but I think a 6" steel rule ( Home Depot .49 ) riveted
or glued to a flat milled on the side of the ram will do nicely.
Please don't tell me you need to buy an engraver for this.

In article , Tim Wescott says...

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

And at the risk of starting a flame war on this thread too -- why not?

No flames there - and I'm only guessing at this of course, given
the history behind the situation. But the guess is that LeBlond
does not have either the tooling or the experience to replicate
the original SB stuff.

The trouble with repro stuff (which is what they would be
producing if they went with alternative techniques) is that
some customer will buy one, and then claim it's not as good
as the original one that his buddy charley got, and want
a refund. Lack of graduations, etc. In general QC on repro
stuff is a big issue.

I think that somebody at LeBlond said, look, lets do a service
and keep on selling all the stuff that came with the acqusition.
But don't go into the parts manufacture business because that's
not what we do, and we're not willing to invest what it would
take to be first rate at it. And if we're not first rate at
it, we shouldn't be doing it.

Like I say, only a guess there.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message ...
In article , Tim Wescott says...

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

And at the risk of starting a flame war on this thread too -- why not?

No flames there - and I'm only guessing at this of course, given
the history behind the situation. But the guess is that LeBlond
does not have either the tooling or the experience to replicate
the original SB stuff.

The trouble with repro stuff (which is what they would be
producing if they went with alternative techniques) is that
some customer will buy one, and then claim it's not as good
as the original one that his buddy charley got, and want
a refund. Lack of graduations, etc. In general QC on repro
stuff is a big issue.

The Hot Rod crowd had no problem solving this- you can get top quality
reproduction parts for all the American muscle cars from body to interior-
as good or better than original. And at a price a teenager can afford.

I think that somebody at LeBlond said, look, lets do a service
and keep on selling all the stuff that came with the acqusition.
But don't go into the parts manufacture business because that's
not what we do, and we're not willing to invest what it would
take to be first rate at it. And if we're not first rate at
it, we shouldn't be doing it.

Like I say, only a guess there.

Jim

Following is an excerpt from their own biography on the web-

"
-- Today, our product line includes much more than lathes, but we still
get requests for the 10-inch belt-driven toolroom lathe, a standard for over
40 years. Times have changed since the O'Brien brothers, "the Henry Fords of
the lathe," set up their one-room shop. This was a era when South Bend,
Indiana, was a manufacturing center, with Studebaker, the Oliver Plow
Company, and the Singer Sewing Machine Company, among others. Many of those
companies are gone. And certainly, our last twenty-five years were not like
our first, yet similarities remain. John and Miles O'Brien set out with the
single-minded dedication to build the best lathe they could, and they
succeeded. With much sacrifice and hard work, we've maintained that
tradition, and will into the next century."

Yeah- Sure!!
According to their own figures, South Bend was at one time the LARGEST
machine tool manufacturer in the WORLD. With distribution in 88 countries!
Now don't you think there must be literally 10's of thousands of these
machines still around in basements, shops, barns and back yards. With all
that " sacrifice and hard work" and a little common sense don't they realize
that there is probably a decent industry in just supplying parts and
technical advice to the owners of all this old iron- AND that every guy who
gets good and reasonably priced parts from them is a potential long term
customer.


==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Are you NOT reading??!! Why in the world would you do all that blanking
and grinding when the thing is already available off the shelf for 3.00???
Are you one of those guys who builds a machine to turn his car upside down
to drain the oil?
I think perhaps it is your reading comprehension that is lacking. I
can't find a #2 morse taper socket that is 6 1/2 inches long. Maybe you
can.


And yes, it does pop the tool out, thats just a matter of being sure the nub
on the screw protrudes into the ram when retracted. Didn't know they had
engraved markings, but I think a 6" steel rule ( Home Depot .49 ) riveted
or glued to a flat milled on the side of the ram will do nicely.
Please don't tell me you need to buy an engraver for this.

So what you are suggesting is that SB sell hacked POS parts? I realize
the lathes were POS to begin with, but no reason to make them worse.

The South Bend lathes have excellent parts support "ebay" Many of the
lathe owners make there own parts thats why they bought the thing, to make
stuff. Thats why I have mine.
"EdFielder" wrote in message
k.net...

"jim rozen" wrote in message ...
In article , Tim Wescott says...

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

And at the risk of starting a flame war on this thread too -- why not?

No flames there - and I'm only guessing at this of course, given
the history behind the situation. But the guess is that LeBlond
does not have either the tooling or the experience to replicate
the original SB stuff.

The trouble with repro stuff (which is what they would be
producing if they went with alternative techniques) is that
some customer will buy one, and then claim it's not as good
as the original one that his buddy charley got, and want
a refund. Lack of graduations, etc. In general QC on repro
stuff is a big issue.

The Hot Rod crowd had no problem solving this- you can get top quality
reproduction parts for all the American muscle cars from body to interior-
as good or better than original. And at a price a teenager can afford.

I think that somebody at LeBlond said, look, lets do a service
and keep on selling all the stuff that came with the acqusition.
But don't go into the parts manufacture business because that's
not what we do, and we're not willing to invest what it would
take to be first rate at it. And if we're not first rate at
it, we shouldn't be doing it.

Like I say, only a guess there.

Jim

Following is an excerpt from their own biography on the web-

"
-- Today, our product line includes much more than lathes, but we still
get requests for the 10-inch belt-driven toolroom lathe, a standard for
over
40 years. Times have changed since the O'Brien brothers, "the Henry Fords
of
the lathe," set up their one-room shop. This was a era when South Bend,
Indiana, was a manufacturing center, with Studebaker, the Oliver Plow
Company, and the Singer Sewing Machine Company, among others. Many of
those
companies are gone. And certainly, our last twenty-five years were not
like
our first, yet similarities remain. John and Miles O'Brien set out with
the
single-minded dedication to build the best lathe they could, and they
succeeded. With much sacrifice and hard work, we've maintained that
tradition, and will into the next century."

Yeah- Sure!!
According to their own figures, South Bend was at one time the LARGEST
machine tool manufacturer in the WORLD. With distribution in 88
countries!
Now don't you think there must be literally 10's of thousands of these
machines still around in basements, shops, barns and back yards. With all
that " sacrifice and hard work" and a little common sense don't they
realize
that there is probably a decent industry in just supplying parts and
technical advice to the owners of all this old iron- AND that every guy
who
gets good and reasonably priced parts from them is a potential long term
customer.


==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I don't think that's true Jim. LeBlond is very capable of reproducing any
Southbend part, and they probably have the drawings, methodology, and
tools/fixtures, unless that was scrapped.

The reason they wouldn't make new parts and sell the existing stock
(assuming this is true), is that THERE ISN"T ANY DEMAND FOR PARTS ON 50+
YEAR OLD MACHINES. Most people who own machines are quite capable of making
replacements, or coming up with some kind of hack solution. Why would
LeBlond make a production run of 500 tailstock rams when they wouldn't sell
them in the next few years, even if the prices were "cheap" . It would take
forever to move them.

If it was profitable to produce spare parts they would do it.

SO either make it yourself, or find it on ebay.

Tony

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Tim Wescott says...

When it's all gone, that's it. No more parts. They've
priced them high because a) they don't care if they sell
or not, and b) there's effectively no competion for NOS
stuff. Actually a smart business decision IMO.

And at the risk of starting a flame war on this thread too -- why not?

No flames there - and I'm only guessing at this of course, given
the history behind the situation. But the guess is that LeBlond
does not have either the tooling or the experience to replicate
the original SB stuff.

The trouble with repro stuff (which is what they would be
producing if they went with alternative techniques) is that
some customer will buy one, and then claim it's not as good
as the original one that his buddy charley got, and want
a refund. Lack of graduations, etc. In general QC on repro
stuff is a big issue.

I think that somebody at LeBlond said, look, lets do a service
and keep on selling all the stuff that came with the acqusition.
But don't go into the parts manufacture business because that's
not what we do, and we're not willing to invest what it would
take to be first rate at it. And if we're not first rate at
it, we shouldn't be doing it.

Like I say, only a guess there.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

If a machine company sold me a replacement part cobbled out of taper sockets
and home depot hardware I'd throw it back at them.

FYI, Southbend lathes are capable of .0001 accuracy. Whats the runout on
your tailstock spindle if you bothered to test that. Don't tell me, there's
no runout on your taper socket stuffed into the end of a piece of bar stock.

Anyhow, why not just use a #3 morse reamer and bore & ream your own.

Tony

"yourname" wrote in message
...

1/2" 10 TPI LH acme nut for 1.26
Morse taper drill sleeve with 1" O.D. and MT 2 inside, hardened and
ground-
USA version 8.00 - Import Version 2.95
Bought 2 of the nuts and 1 each of the sleeves

Cheapie version- Used the Import piece and just welded the nut to the
end-
time to set up, center and weld- 5 minutes
Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and
pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes
Milled the 1/8" slot in both units- another 10 minutes.

First, i agree, the guy has machines, shut up and make one. But:


How would you feel if you got this[your item] from south bend?

What no engraved depth markings? does the screw still push the tool out?

the ones in my catalog are only 4 inches long, a bit stumpy.




Conclusion A- for a guy fixing his old lathe he could do a quickie fix
that
works fine for 5.00 in parts and 10 minutes time.

Not true, above

For a " restorer type" he
could duplicate the original for about 10.00 in parts and 1/2 hour of
time.
Conclusion B- There is no reason that the South Bend parts people could
not
make these things and sell them for 30.00 each, just by examining the
problem and finding a simple solution

Again not true, It would take a couple hours to blank one, starting with
a piece of ground stock[not free] and countless hours screwing with the
taper to get it right. unless you do tapers all the time and your taper
attachment is all dialed in. i twould take me a couple hours to clena
the crap off of mine
As I said, I would bid at least twice SB price to make one and make
money. It is NOT a high price. Problem is SB lathes aren't worth 300
bucks.

Conclusion C- Utilizing the time spent by everyone on this board
yabbering
about the world economy we could have built 100 of these things.

Absolutely

Ahernwill wrote:

Actually, I also solved the problem in a similar fashion, but my posted
solution which follows was lost in the pandemonium created by the original
question.

PS: problem solved-
Took an imported Morse #2 sleeve which had an OD of 28 MM and turned it down
to 1", cut off the end and drilled it through to 27/64ths and borrowed a
1/2" LH acme tap and tapped it- aside from the drive to my friend's shop
for the tap, total time 20 minutes. The only thing left is to mill the slot
for the key- If I buy the lathe I will do it after measuring the key- if not
I will send the part to the owner with my compliments.


LOL
I'm reminded of a quote, from a famous cookery book, about
making rabbit stew, The first line read:
"First shoot your rabbit."

Tom

Lets looks at this from different viewpoints.

viewpoint 1: You are a commercial shop and you need the machine to make
parts to sell. I suspect a commercial shop would figure its cheaper to
buy the part rather than make it in house. After all, any time spent
repairing machines is not time spent making parts to sell. The only
exception to this would be if the machine was critical to meeting
a delivery, in which case fixing the machine would be a high priority
item.

viewpoint 2: you are a home shop machinest
In this case you are balencing money vs time.
If you don't have the time and you have the money, you buy the part.
If you gots lot of time you make the part. (assuming you have the skill)

chuck

Charles A. Sherwood wrote:
Lets looks at this from different viewpoints.

viewpoint 1: You are a commercial shop and you need the machine to make
parts to sell. I suspect a commercial shop would figure its cheaper to
buy the part rather than make it in house. After all, any time spent
repairing machines is not time spent making parts to sell. The only
exception to this would be if the machine was critical to meeting
a delivery, in which case fixing the machine would be a high priority
item.

viewpoint 2: you are a home shop machinest
In this case you are balencing money vs time.
If you don't have the time and you have the money, you buy the part.
If you gots lot of time you make the part. (assuming you have the skill)

chuck

That's pretty accurate. In the context of this newsgroup, #2 would be
applicable.

EdFielder wrote:

Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes

Whatever kind of coffee you're drinking, it must be *really* good stuff.
Guess I'm kinda pokey, here's how long it might take me assuming the
4-jaw is already mounted (usually is), and I'm wide awake with a clear head:

3 min.--Chuck sleeve, rough-center by eye
3min.--center to .0005 hopefully, with indicator
2 min.--pilot drill to 1/4"
3 min.--drill through for clearance of tailstock screw
3 min.--mount and line up boring bar, set up carriage stop for depth of
hole to press nut into
5 min.--bore out short hole to whatever dia. I think the nut will be
turned down to
10 min--Unchuck sleeve, chuck a piece of threaded rod to hold nut for
turning, set the leadscrew tpi to the same thread so it can be indicated
and centered (that's if you have a quick-change gearbox, I don't so it
would take me twice as long)
2 min.--carefully measure bore in sleeve to determine OD of nut
3 min.--mount nut on threaded rod with washer to space it away from
chuck, put a toolbit on the compound
2 min.--rough turn nut, and mike it
2 min.--lock the cross-slide, make another cut within ten thou of final
size, mike it again
3 min.--make the final pass, do a little file work for an easier press
or shrink fit and hope you didn't take too much off
Shrink fit? you gotta heat the sleeve up, that will take a few minutes--
then just drop the nut in unless something goes wrong and it freezes
halfway in cockeyed. Press fit will be quicker, of course.
Getting close to an hour now, still haven't put the setscrew in but I
don't know why it's needed, so I'll skip it.
Oh yeah, gotta allow some time for rummaging for the right washer,
scratching my head, answering the phone, etc.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl


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It would take me at least 15 minute to make sure the acme taps does what it
needs, and not breat it. If it did break the cost of the ram just went WAY
up.
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...
EdFielder wrote:

Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and
pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes

Whatever kind of coffee you're drinking, it must be *really* good stuff.
Guess I'm kinda pokey, here's how long it might take me assuming the 4-jaw
is already mounted (usually is), and I'm wide awake with a clear head:

3 min.--Chuck sleeve, rough-center by eye
3min.--center to .0005 hopefully, with indicator
2 min.--pilot drill to 1/4"
3 min.--drill through for clearance of tailstock screw
3 min.--mount and line up boring bar, set up carriage stop for depth of
hole to press nut into
5 min.--bore out short hole to whatever dia. I think the nut will be
turned down to
10 min--Unchuck sleeve, chuck a piece of threaded rod to hold nut for
turning, set the leadscrew tpi to the same thread so it can be indicated
and centered (that's if you have a quick-change gearbox, I don't so it
would take me twice as long)
2 min.--carefully measure bore in sleeve to determine OD of nut
3 min.--mount nut on threaded rod with washer to space it away from chuck,
put a toolbit on the compound
2 min.--rough turn nut, and mike it
2 min.--lock the cross-slide, make another cut within ten thou of final
size, mike it again
3 min.--make the final pass, do a little file work for an easier press or
shrink fit and hope you didn't take too much off
Shrink fit? you gotta heat the sleeve up, that will take a few minutes--
then just drop the nut in unless something goes wrong and it freezes
halfway in cockeyed. Press fit will be quicker, of course.
Getting close to an hour now, still haven't put the setscrew in but I
don't know why it's needed, so I'll skip it.
Oh yeah, gotta allow some time for rummaging for the right washer,
scratching my head, answering the phone, etc.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl


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In article t, EdFielder
says...

Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and pressed
in and drilled for a set screw

The original SB part used a pin installed cross-wised to the
bronze nut to retain it. A setscrew would probaby strip out
or come loose in short order. A simple press-up fit would
also fail in short order.

I think the original design has some merits.

Jim


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That is fairly typical of a machinist who is used to working for someone
else by the hour. The key to productivity in this and any other job is
examining the entire project and its function. Most machinist I know have a
tendency to make each project a " by the book" exercise in utilizing all
their skills. This is fine for certain jobs, but for what we are talking
about, its overkill.
Remember, this is a 60 year old South Bend hobby lathe. The original
does not even have a dial on the tailstock ram, only a crude sort of inch
scale on the side. Its function is to drill holes or support a center for
turning. The accurracy of the center support has nothing to do with the
acme screw or nut, it is determined by the fit of the ram in the casting.
If this fit is good, then once set and clamped its job is done. Further,
most acme nuts made for this purpose will have 0.010-0.020" lash, so all
that precise centering of the nut is just wasted effort. For the set screw,
the easy way is drill all the way throught the ram and nut and then tap with
a 10-32 tap- then put a set screw in each side long enough to be flush with
the surface and not too long to interfere with the threads-
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...
EdFielder wrote:

Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and
pressed
in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes

Whatever kind of coffee you're drinking, it must be *really* good stuff.
Guess I'm kinda pokey, here's how long it might take me assuming the
4-jaw is already mounted (usually is), and I'm wide awake with a clear
head:

3 min.--Chuck sleeve, rough-center by eye
3min.--center to .0005 hopefully, with indicator
2 min.--pilot drill to 1/4"
3 min.--drill through for clearance of tailstock screw
3 min.--mount and line up boring bar, set up carriage stop for depth of
hole to press nut into
5 min.--bore out short hole to whatever dia. I think the nut will be
turned down to
10 min--Unchuck sleeve, chuck a piece of threaded rod to hold nut for
turning, set the leadscrew tpi to the same thread so it can be indicated
and centered (that's if you have a quick-change gearbox, I don't so it
would take me twice as long)
2 min.--carefully measure bore in sleeve to determine OD of nut
3 min.--mount nut on threaded rod with washer to space it away from
chuck, put a toolbit on the compound
2 min.--rough turn nut, and mike it
2 min.--lock the cross-slide, make another cut within ten thou of final
size, mike it again
3 min.--make the final pass, do a little file work for an easier press
or shrink fit and hope you didn't take too much off
Shrink fit? you gotta heat the sleeve up, that will take a few minutes--
then just drop the nut in unless something goes wrong and it freezes
halfway in cockeyed. Press fit will be quicker, of course.
Getting close to an hour now, still haven't put the setscrew in but I
don't know why it's needed, so I'll skip it.
Oh yeah, gotta allow some time for rummaging for the right washer,
scratching my head, answering the phone, etc.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl


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In article et, EdFielder
says...

Remember, this is a 60 year old South Bend hobby lathe. The original
does not even have a dial on the tailstock ram,

The 10Ls (and maybe the 10Ks) have the micrometer dial on the
handwheel. Actually a pretty handy feature, when drilling holes.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
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==================================================

Baloney

If you can crank these out in less than an hour, go to it


I doubt it

you would still end up with a POS with no graduations, 2 inches too
short[by someone elses measurements]



hell, I wouldn't by a southbend on a bet anyway....



EdFielder wrote:
That is fairly typical of a machinist who is used to working for someone
else by the hour. The key to productivity in this and any other job is
examining the entire project and its function. Most machinist I know have a
tendency to make each project a " by the book" exercise in utilizing all
their skills. This is fine for certain jobs, but for what we are talking
about, its overkill.
Remember, this is a 60 year old South Bend hobby lathe. The original
does not even have a dial on the tailstock ram, only a crude sort of inch
scale on the side. Its function is to drill holes or support a center for
turning. The accurracy of the center support has nothing to do with the
acme screw or nut, it is determined by the fit of the ram in the casting.
If this fit is good, then once set and clamped its job is done. Further,
most acme nuts made for this purpose will have 0.010-0.020" lash, so all
that precise centering of the nut is just wasted effort. For the set screw,
the easy way is drill all the way throught the ram and nut and then tap with
a 10-32 tap- then put a set screw in each side long enough to be flush with
the surface and not too long to interfere with the threads-
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...

EdFielder wrote:


Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and

pressed

in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes

Whatever kind of coffee you're drinking, it must be *really* good stuff.
Guess I'm kinda pokey, here's how long it might take me assuming the
4-jaw is already mounted (usually is), and I'm wide awake with a clear

head:

3 min.--Chuck sleeve, rough-center by eye
3min.--center to .0005 hopefully, with indicator
2 min.--pilot drill to 1/4"
3 min.--drill through for clearance of tailstock screw
3 min.--mount and line up boring bar, set up carriage stop for depth of
hole to press nut into
5 min.--bore out short hole to whatever dia. I think the nut will be
turned down to
10 min--Unchuck sleeve, chuck a piece of threaded rod to hold nut for
turning, set the leadscrew tpi to the same thread so it can be indicated
and centered (that's if you have a quick-change gearbox, I don't so it
would take me twice as long)
2 min.--carefully measure bore in sleeve to determine OD of nut
3 min.--mount nut on threaded rod with washer to space it away from
chuck, put a toolbit on the compound
2 min.--rough turn nut, and mike it
2 min.--lock the cross-slide, make another cut within ten thou of final
size, mike it again
3 min.--make the final pass, do a little file work for an easier press
or shrink fit and hope you didn't take too much off
Shrink fit? you gotta heat the sleeve up, that will take a few minutes--
then just drop the nut in unless something goes wrong and it freezes
halfway in cockeyed. Press fit will be quicker, of course.
Getting close to an hour now, still haven't put the setscrew in but I
don't know why it's needed, so I'll skip it.
Oh yeah, gotta allow some time for rummaging for the right washer,
scratching my head, answering the phone, etc.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl


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If this was made from scratch, you would need to bore an ACCURATE MT2, Have
the MT2 bore true to the OD, have it hard enough that it could be used more
than 50 times before needing to be replaced. The South Bend while not loved
by all is a good accurate lathe if not all worn out. The beds on the 9" are
often worn, so other parts are out there on the market all teh time. But
with a good bed and other true parts they can turn a nice part. I know I
have used them and bought and sold more than I can count on my hands.
"yourname" wrote in message
...
Baloney

If you can crank these out in less than an hour, go to it


I doubt it

you would still end up with a POS with no graduations, 2 inches too
short[by someone elses measurements]



hell, I wouldn't by a southbend on a bet anyway....



EdFielder wrote:
That is fairly typical of a machinist who is used to working for someone
else by the hour. The key to productivity in this and any other job is
examining the entire project and its function. Most machinist I know
have a
tendency to make each project a " by the book" exercise in utilizing all
their skills. This is fine for certain jobs, but for what we are talking
about, its overkill.
Remember, this is a 60 year old South Bend hobby lathe. The original
does not even have a dial on the tailstock ram, only a crude sort of inch
scale on the side. Its function is to drill holes or support a center
for
turning. The accurracy of the center support has nothing to do with the
acme screw or nut, it is determined by the fit of the ram in the casting.
If this fit is good, then once set and clamped its job is done. Further,
most acme nuts made for this purpose will have 0.010-0.020" lash, so all
that precise centering of the nut is just wasted effort. For the set
screw,
the easy way is drill all the way throught the ram and nut and then tap
with
a 10-32 tap- then put a set screw in each side long enough to be flush
with
the surface and not too long to interfere with the threads-
"Ken Grunke" wrote in message
...

EdFielder wrote:


Cadillac version bored the USA sleeve and turned the nut down and

pressed

in and drilled for a set screw
25 minutes

Whatever kind of coffee you're drinking, it must be *really* good stuff.
Guess I'm kinda pokey, here's how long it might take me assuming the
4-jaw is already mounted (usually is), and I'm wide awake with a clear

head:

3 min.--Chuck sleeve, rough-center by eye
3min.--center to .0005 hopefully, with indicator
2 min.--pilot drill to 1/4"
3 min.--drill through for clearance of tailstock screw
3 min.--mount and line up boring bar, set up carriage stop for depth of
hole to press nut into
5 min.--bore out short hole to whatever dia. I think the nut will be
turned down to
10 min--Unchuck sleeve, chuck a piece of threaded rod to hold nut for
turning, set the leadscrew tpi to the same thread so it can be indicated
and centered (that's if you have a quick-change gearbox, I don't so it
would take me twice as long)
2 min.--carefully measure bore in sleeve to determine OD of nut
3 min.--mount nut on threaded rod with washer to space it away from
chuck, put a toolbit on the compound
2 min.--rough turn nut, and mike it
2 min.--lock the cross-slide, make another cut within ten thou of final
size, mike it again
3 min.--make the final pass, do a little file work for an easier press
or shrink fit and hope you didn't take too much off
Shrink fit? you gotta heat the sleeve up, that will take a few minutes--
then just drop the nut in unless something goes wrong and it freezes
halfway in cockeyed. Press fit will be quicker, of course.
Getting close to an hour now, still haven't put the setscrew in but I
don't know why it's needed, so I'll skip it.
Oh yeah, gotta allow some time for rummaging for the right washer,
scratching my head, answering the phone, etc.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl


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News==----

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Newsgroups

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