On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 04:20:07 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
calmly ranted:

Gunner said:
While we are waiting...

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/SouthwickJr1.htm
http://www.locksley.com/6696/guns2.htm

I'm not going to more sites tonight, but the figure I read in one of Kleck's
studies, or somebody's, was a projected figure of 500,000. To arrive at that
figure he had to accept all unsubstantiated claims from anyone who said that
by yelling "you'd better leave, I have a gun" he actually caused the wind
that was rattling to windows to cease, in every case. It was a sort of
honor-system survey, which makes me wonder if the author is in the market
for a nice old bridge...

Oh, come on, Ed. Kleck was a true gun -critic- until he did his
research and faced the -truth- aka F A C T S .


But I think that you and everybody who is playing with these statistics are
wasting your time and missing the point. These range wars with statistics
lead nowhere. Gun control isn't about statistics or logic. It's about how
people want to live their lives, what they make of the threat environment
(or lack thereof), and how they want to respond to it. I see two legitimate
points of view about that one. One is that one of the worthiest goals one
can pursue is to spend his or her life trying to eliminate the source of
unnecessary threats in our society. The other is to spend his or her life
preparing to defend oneself and one's family against those threats, and
protecting a right to possess the means to do so. That's anti-gun and
pro-gun (from the self-defense point of view) in case I'm being obscure.

That's a far too simplistic statement, Ed. You see guns as threats?
(worthiest goal/eliminate threats/anti-gun) See the reports from
Australia after banning guns. How is their "worthy goal" serving them,
hmmm?

And this (the hour it takes to decide to buy and keep a gun + half a
day training + a few hours a year practicing) isn't quite as heavy as
your "spending one's life preparing to defend oneself" statement now,
is it? Being alert to one's surroundings should be every person's duty
to themselves, regardless of their position on guns...unless you like
to set yourself up to be mugged.



I don't disparage either point of view. As it happens, I've found a solution
for myself that keeps me from having to waste too much of this short life
worrying about either side: I stay out of ghettos, I don't shop at 7-Eleven
after 10:00 PM, and I never give anyone the finger when I'm stuck in
traffic.

Ditto here. And as to traffic, I try to remember to smile and say
"Thank you!" or "Merry Christmas" to anyone acting like an ass. It
works very subtly and is much better "punishment."


================================================== ========
CAUTION: Do not use remaining fingers as pushsticks!
================================================== ========
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 3:01:37 GMT, Lady Chatterly
wrote:

Which way?

Who?

"Mike In Santa Cruz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 3:01:37 GMT, Lady Chatterly
wrote:

Which way?

Who?


Do have fun, Mike.........

--

SVL

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 05:31:38 GMT, Mike In Santa Cruz
wrote:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 3:01:37 GMT, Lady Chatterly
wrote:

Which way?

Who?


http://www.filelibrary.com:8080/cgi-...1/whostage.zip

HTH
--
Cliff

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:35:57 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Mike In Santa Cruz" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 3:01:37 GMT, Lady Chatterly
wrote:

Which way?

Who?


Do have fun, Mike.........

--


How do you turn that thing off??

In article , says...

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 3:01:37 GMT, Lady Chatterly
wrote:

Which way?

Who?

Who's on first.

^_^

FW

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:05:38 GMT
in alt.machines.cnc :
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:43:36 GMT, "David Moffitt"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote:
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:16:53 GMT, "David Moffitt"
wrote:


%%%% "Carbine" Williams built the prototype to the Garand rifle (M1) totally
with hand tools even to the point of making the barrel from a salvaged
tractor axle.
Firearms have been made for a long time with simple hand tools. I'll build a
22 pistol (possibly even a rifle) with items in your home in 5 minutes.

Mr. Williams was in Prison at the time he invented the M1 Carbine.

Gunner

%%%% Quite correct. He designed and tested the weapon in his mind while in
solitary confinement. Quite a smart man.

Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

Carbine Williams was in prison for allegedly killing a tax revenue
agent during a struggle over Williams still.

And then got sent to a prison farm because of a bad attitude in prison.
:-)

tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:19:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

http://faceprint.com/~walpd/gen/moor...n_pate_03.html

Gunner



"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:28:13 GMT in
alt.machines.cnc :
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:19:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

http://faceprint.com/~walpd/gen/moor...n_pate_03.html

Hmmm - okay, so he (Williams) was less than a sterling citizen. "Takes
all kinds." as they say, only the reality is more like "We got all kinds."

He apparently would have been able to answer affirmatively "Have you
Rehabilitated yourself, kid?"


tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

pyotr filipivich wrote:
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:28:13 GMT in
alt.machines.cnc :

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:19:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

http://faceprint.com/~walpd/gen/moor...n_pate_03.html


Hmmm - okay, so he (Williams) was less than a sterling citizen. "Takes
all kinds." as they say, only the reality is more like "We got all kinds."

He apparently would have been able to answer affirmatively "Have you
Rehabilitated yourself, kid?"


tschus
pyotr



What David Marshal (Carbine) Williams designed was not a carbine but the
short stoke gas piston system. In Williams design the gas piston and
cylinder is located near the chamber and when a small amount of gas is
bled down into a enclosed cylinder that contains a piston, the piston is
thrown violently to the rear. The piston has only a very small movement
(1/3 inch) but the force by with it hits the operating rod is sufficient
that the residual energy of the striking of the operating rod is
sufficient to cycle the weapon. When the operating rod reaches battery
(fully closed position) it pushes the piston to the top of the cylinder.

The history of the M-1 carbine indicates that it was a part time project
of a group of engineers at the Winchester arms company. When the US
Government issued the request for the carbine in 1940, Winchester
submitted its design of a carbine that fired a 110 grain projectile at
1850 fps from a Inch and a half long sholderless case with the Williams
Gas system and got the contract

The locking system, with the the bolt mounted extractor and plunger
ejector were adopted from the M-1 Garand Rifle.

The Independent of Clackamas County

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 21:36:55 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:28:13 GMT in
alt.machines.cnc :
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:19:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

http://faceprint.com/~walpd/gen/moor...n_pate_03.html

Hmmm - okay, so he (Williams) was less than a sterling citizen. "Takes
all kinds." as they say, only the reality is more like "We got all kinds."

Hell yes. A ****load of the Great Men of history have been less than
sterling citizens. I suspect that the Harvy Milqtoast types who stay
on the straight and narrow simply are unable to go against the odds
and achieve great things.

He apparently would have been able to answer affirmatively "Have you
Rehabilitated yourself, kid?"

Ayup. Though he did drink himself to death..but thats also not
uncommon.

Gunner



tschus
pyotr

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:06:51 -0800, The Independent of Clackamas
County wrote:



pyotr filipivich wrote:
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 08:28:13 GMT in
alt.machines.cnc :

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 06:19:13 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


Chuckle..the prison warden was approached and being something of a gun
fan, allowed Williams to construct and test fire the weapon in the
prisons workshop. He also aided him in getting Remington and others
to look at the design and the rest is history.

As I understood it (but I am basing it on the movie, starting James
Stewart), Williams designed it in solitary to keep from going bonkers, then
started building it on his breaks. From the movie, I take it that Mr
Williams was your basic cantankerous American who didn't think much of
being told what to do or not to do by government employees.

http://faceprint.com/~walpd/gen/moor...n_pate_03.html


Hmmm - okay, so he (Williams) was less than a sterling citizen. "Takes
all kinds." as they say, only the reality is more like "We got all kinds."

He apparently would have been able to answer affirmatively "Have you
Rehabilitated yourself, kid?"


tschus
pyotr



What David Marshal (Carbine) Williams designed was not a carbine but the
short stoke gas piston system. In Williams design the gas piston and
cylinder is located near the chamber and when a small amount of gas is
bled down into a enclosed cylinder that contains a piston, the piston is
thrown violently to the rear. The piston has only a very small movement
(1/3 inch) but the force by with it hits the operating rod is sufficient
that the residual energy of the striking of the operating rod is
sufficient to cycle the weapon. When the operating rod reaches battery
(fully closed position) it pushes the piston to the top of the cylinder.

The history of the M-1 carbine indicates that it was a part time project
of a group of engineers at the Winchester arms company. When the US
Government issued the request for the carbine in 1940, Winchester
submitted its design of a carbine that fired a 110 grain projectile at
1850 fps from a Inch and a half long sholderless case with the Williams
Gas system and got the contract

The locking system, with the the bolt mounted extractor and plunger
ejector were adopted from the M-1 Garand Rifle.

The Independent of Clackamas County

Quite true. But it makes good press and a decent movie. And Williams
did die with over 50 firearms patents to his name, including making
the Johnson Rifle actually work.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:24:14 GMT in
alt.machines.cnc :

Hmmm - okay, so he (Williams) was less than a sterling citizen. "Takes
all kinds." as they say, only the reality is more like "We got all kinds."

Hell yes. A ****load of the Great Men of history have been less than
sterling citizens. I suspect that the Harvy Milqtoast types who stay
on the straight and narrow simply are unable to go against the odds
and achieve great things.

I recall an incident at my high school. I figured things weren't too
out of hand, as Sgts Muse and Jones were watching things, giving off vibes
of "Remember when you was young, stupid and full of **** & vinegar?", and I
some how got the understanding that if things went from the mere
gar-mouthing, both of them would grab their sons and advise them to "keep
it cool - or else!" Aiee.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."