Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)



"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

I have a Darex that works great for tips
http://www.darex.com/
I found one at a tag sale years back for $45.00

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

In article ,
Waynemak wrote:
I have a Darex that works great for tips

Will it do flat bottom drills and 45 deg angles?

cs

Tom Gardner wrote:
A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)

Sorry, but I don't think I can grind a flat bottom drill
or a 45 deg angel drill point with a bench grinder.
cs

I don't have a link to an image handy, but there are several inexpensive
variations of a sharpening fixture that mounts (to your bench with a single
stud or bolt) perpendicular to the bench grinder wheel.

They tilt up/down for point angle, and swing in an arc for the relief angle.

These have been offered by Craftsman, General, and I believe the importers
such as Homier have similar versions.

WB
...............

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Charles A. Sherwood wrote:

Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

No matter how much they charge you once a year, it would be cheaper
to go to a commercial tool & cutter grind shop and have your custom
grinds done. Say you would have put $150 into a drill grinder. That
money would bring you what, $3 in interest in a year? If you are
going to have 2 drills sharpened special grind, that might cost you
$5 a year. You can see it's a money-losing proposition to own a
machine.

I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.
I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments).
Sharp buying over time will net you one for $200-275. That will do a
good job for you.

Other guys have written a lot about how to use a cheap General drill
grinding jig. I've never looked because I figure all that writing is
about a poorly designed tool or it wouldn't be needed.

You can actually sharpen larger drills freehand once you learn how.
I don't think you can learn without a live teacher, though. Google
on what teenut once wrote, it's the one where you indent the tip of
your finger to act as a indexing stop or something.

GWE

Check out the Darex M3 or M5 systems.

Bob Swinney
"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

My suggestions woud be:

Skip a drill grinder for once a year useage.

Invest in a good "opti-visor", a good work light, a good pedestal grinder
with a suitable
wheel, and a good protractor with a metal scale (with tenths graduations).
Note that
all of these can be used for other purposes. (protractor for angle, the
metal scale
for length of drill lips).

Truly, a couple hours spent mastering the techniques of grinding a drill
point has it's own
rewards. For example, get yourself a beatup drill bit and a scrap piece of
metal.
Oh yeah, a new drill also, from which you can visually compare physical
features, and
results of using same.

Regrind the old bit and try drilling a hole, noting perfomance.
Chips from both lips of drill? Are they equal width/thickness?
Force required to feed drill okay?

Just keep in mind a badly pointed drill can grab and do nasty things,
so observe all appropriate safety precautions.



"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Charles A. Sherwood wrote:

Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

No matter how much they charge you once a year, it would be cheaper
to go to a commercial tool & cutter grind shop and have your custom
grinds done. Say you would have put $150 into a drill grinder. That
money would bring you what, $3 in interest in a year? If you are
going to have 2 drills sharpened special grind, that might cost you
$5 a year. You can see it's a money-losing proposition to own a
machine.

I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.
I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments).
Sharp buying over time will net you one for $200-275. That will do a
good job for you.

Other guys have written a lot about how to use a cheap General drill
grinding jig. I've never looked because I figure all that writing is
about a poorly designed tool or it wouldn't be needed.

You can actually sharpen larger drills freehand once you learn how.
I don't think you can learn without a live teacher, though. Google
on what teenut once wrote, it's the one where you indent the tip of
your finger to act as a indexing stop or something.

GWE

Grant sez:
" I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.
I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments)."

I'm curious about how you sharpen the 1/1/2" drills. I have a Darex M3 and
it came with a 1/16 to 1/2" chuck. Later I added the optional 1/2 to 3/4"
chuck. Does Darex offer a chuck that goes to 1-1/2? How do you sharpen the
drills over 3/4"?

Bob Swinney





"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Charles A. Sherwood wrote:

Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

No matter how much they charge you once a year, it would be cheaper
to go to a commercial tool & cutter grind shop and have your custom
grinds done. Say you would have put $150 into a drill grinder. That
money would bring you what, $3 in interest in a year? If you are
going to have 2 drills sharpened special grind, that might cost you
$5 a year. You can see it's a money-losing proposition to own a
machine.

Sharp buying over time will net you one for $200-275. That will do a
good job for you.

Other guys have written a lot about how to use a cheap General drill
grinding jig. I've never looked because I figure all that writing is
about a poorly designed tool or it wouldn't be needed.

You can actually sharpen larger drills freehand once you learn how.
I don't think you can learn without a live teacher, though. Google
on what teenut once wrote, it's the one where you indent the tip of
your finger to act as a indexing stop or something.

GWE

Robert Swinney wrote:

Grant sez:
" I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.

I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments)."


I'm curious about how you sharpen the 1/1/2" drills. I have a Darex M3 and
it came with a 1/16 to 1/2" chuck. Later I added the optional 1/2 to 3/4"
chuck. Does Darex offer a chuck that goes to 1-1/2? How do you sharpen the
drills over 3/4"?

Bob Swinney

Oh, you're almost certainly right, Bob! My bad .. I meant 3/4" not 1.5" ..
mea gulpa

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Robert Swinney wrote:

Grant sez:
" I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.

I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments)."


I'm curious about how you sharpen the 1/1/2" drills. I have a Darex M3
and it came with a 1/16 to 1/2" chuck. Later I added the optional 1/2 to
3/4" chuck. Does Darex offer a chuck that goes to 1-1/2? How do you
sharpen the drills over 3/4"?

Bob Swinney

Oh, you're almost certainly right, Bob! My bad .. I meant 3/4" not 1.5" ..
mea gulpa

GWE

As they say, Grant, it takes an honest man . . . .

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Robert Swinney wrote:

Grant sez:
" I own a Darex M3 with a Glendo mount for a 7" Baldor bench grinder.

I can sharpen drills from about 1/8" up to 1-1/2", any angle I want.
Those aren't cheap, nor are they current. Look for a lightly used M5
setup on ebay, or an M4 (same thing, just fewer included attachments)."


I'm curious about how you sharpen the 1/1/2" drills. I have a Darex M3
and it came with a 1/16 to 1/2" chuck. Later I added the optional 1/2
to 3/4" chuck. Does Darex offer a chuck that goes to 1-1/2? How do you
sharpen the drills over 3/4"?

Bob Swinney

Oh, you're almost certainly right, Bob! My bad .. I meant 3/4" not 1.5"
..
mea gulpa

GWE

Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

I think the quality of grind I get out of my darex is better than any level
of grinding I could do free hand, and its fast. I would rather spend my time
making what I want.
"Beecrofter" wrote in message
om...
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

In article , cas@w-
sherwood.ih.lucent.com says...
Tom Gardner wrote:
A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)

Sorry, but I don't think I can grind a flat bottom drill
or a 45 deg angel drill point with a bench grinder.
cs


With a bit of practice I'm sure you could.

Ned Simmons

Keywords:
In article , (Charles A. Sherwood) wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)

Sorry, but I don't think I can grind a flat bottom drill
or a 45 deg angel drill point with a bench grinder.
cs

Depends on how fussy you are. I've done both. You can also rough them
on a bench grinder & fine tune them with a Dremel. The accuracy is only
limited by your ability to determine where you need to remove metal and
your patience. Some sort of template or jig could be used to check the
angle, even a bevel protractor. An Optivisor helps.

Doug White

In article ,
Robert Swinney wrote:
As they say, Grant, it takes an honest man . . . .

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...

Bob,

What in the world is it about your newsreader? I frequently see
you "reply" to something with nothing but quoted text, and then either
follow up to that, or post again beside it a real answer. It happens
occasionally with others, but it happens very frequently with you for
whatever reason.

I find myself paging up and down in the reply looking for the
added text, and then I go back to the top and see that it was you, so I
go looking for another reply. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

That depends -- I sometimes sharpen down to #70 drill bits, and
would hate to try to do that by hand. For that, I have a drill grinder
made by DuMore -- the makers of the toolpost grinders. They no longer
make this, but it was avaialble with collets for all the way down to #70
bits. Unlike most collets, these don't actually grip the drill bit
(which is gripped by a simple drill chuck), but rather stabilize the bit
nearer to the point. It will handle up to 1/4" bits.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 23 Nov 2004 18:20:06 -0500, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

That depends -- I sometimes sharpen down to #70 drill bits, and
would hate to try to do that by hand. For that, I have a drill grinder
made by DuMore -- the makers of the toolpost grinders. They no longer
make this, but it was avaialble with collets for all the way down to #70
bits. Unlike most collets, these don't actually grip the drill bit
(which is gripped by a simple drill chuck), but rather stabilize the bit
nearer to the point. It will handle up to 1/4" bits.

Enjoy,
DoN.
Boy, I like that idea for grinding small drill bits. A little
stabilising sleeve or collet. Since Dumore don't make 'em any more I
think mebbe it's time to try to build my own.
ERS

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:56:42 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article , cas@w-
sherwood.ih.lucent.com says...
Tom Gardner wrote:
A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)

Sorry, but I don't think I can grind a flat bottom drill
or a 45 deg angel drill point with a bench grinder.
cs


With a bit of practice I'm sure you could.

Ned Simmons
I do this. The flat bottom ones. The trick is to grind the end of the
drill flat and square first, then grind the reliefs. A machinist's
square is plenty good enough. Since I only do this to make
counterbores they don't need to cut all the way to center. And it
really is easy. Use a Sharpie or similar fel pen to color the end to
see where you are grinding.
ERS

Don,

I have been writing my reply usu. underneath a quoted passage of the
original post and then oftentimes deleting everything else in the message.
Does this not come across as I intended?

Bob Swinney

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Robert Swinney wrote:
As they say, Grant, it takes an honest man . . . .

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...

Bob,

What in the world is it about your newsreader? I frequently see
you "reply" to something with nothing but quoted text, and then either
follow up to that, or post again beside it a real answer. It happens
occasionally with others, but it happens very frequently with you for
whatever reason.

I find myself paging up and down in the reply looking for the
added text, and then I go back to the top and see that it was you, so I
go looking for another reply. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I doubt this "skill" could be extended to accurately point drills of 1/8" or
smaller. I would guess most people with a drill sharpening gadget have it
primarily for accurate work with small drills.

Bob Swinney
"Beecrofter" wrote in message
om...
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

"Waynemak" wrote in message
...
I think the quality of grind I get out of my darex is better than any level
of grinding I could do free hand, and its fast. I would rather spend my
time making what I want.

My point precisely!

Bob Swinney
"Beecrofter" wrote in message
om...
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On 23 Nov 2004 18:20:06 -0500, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:
Best bet is to learn to hand grind the bits, it costs nothing to let a
skill sit idle for a year and the few bits you ruin while you take the
time to learn will cost far less.
Yes there is a jig, gadget or fixture for those unwilling to learn a
manual skill but they really are not needed.

That depends -- I sometimes sharpen down to #70 drill bits, and
would hate to try to do that by hand. For that, I have a drill grinder
made by DuMore -- the makers of the toolpost grinders. They no longer
make this, but it was avaialble with collets for all the way down to #70
bits. Unlike most collets, these don't actually grip the drill bit
(which is gripped by a simple drill chuck), but rather stabilize the bit
nearer to the point. It will handle up to 1/4" bits.

Check Lautards article (one of the bedside series) re. frinding small
drills.

Bob Swinney

Enjoy,
DoN.
Boy, I like that idea for grinding small drill bits. A little
stabilising sleeve or collet. Since Dumore don't make 'em any more I
think mebbe it's time to try to build my own.
ERS

In article ,
Robert Swinney wrote:
Don,

I have been writing my reply usu. underneath a quoted passage of the
original post and then oftentimes deleting everything else in the message.
Does this not come across as I intended?

It does -- in the ones where you actually *have* added text.
But some show no changes at all to the quoted text -- just the whole
text quoted with nothing added by you. And there seems to *always* be
either a followup to that with new text posted by you, or another posted
in parallel (that is, another followup to the original message) with
text added by you, and reasonable trimming.

I suspect a bouncy keyswitch or mouse button is causing it to
send the first one before you ever get a chance to change things. Just
read back in this thread, and you will discover that the article to
which I replied (by you) was a reply to another (also by you) with the
full text quoted, and nothing added by you.

I'm sure that it is not intentional on your part, but it is
happening fairly often, so you might try to figure out just *what* is
happening.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Eric R Snow wrote:
On 23 Nov 2004 18:20:06 -0500, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

In article ,
Beecrofter wrote:

[ ... ]

That depends -- I sometimes sharpen down to #70 drill bits, and
would hate to try to do that by hand. For that, I have a drill grinder
made by DuMore -- the makers of the toolpost grinders. They no longer
make this, but it was available with collets for all the way down to #70
bits. Unlike most collets, these don't actually grip the drill bit
(which is gripped by a simple drill chuck), but rather stabilize the bit
nearer to the point. It will handle up to 1/4" bits.

Enjoy,
DoN.
Boy, I like that idea for grinding small drill bits. A little
stabilising sleeve or collet. Since Dumore don't make 'em any more I
think mebbe it's time to try to build my own.

If you want to see what the DuMore looks like, you might visit
this web page which I threw together when I was restoring it.

http://www2.d-and-d.com/interesting-...der/index.html

The basic mechanism is similar to a General drill grinding
fixture, except that the rotation is about a horizontal axis, instead of
the vertical axis the General uses. And -- the fixturing of the drill
bit is a lot better, including provisions for rotating it exactly 180
degrees after grinding the first flute. (There is a magnifier which
gets a view of the edge of the flute above a reference line to help you
align the flute properly for the first grind.

I managed to get a manual for this (a photocopy) from DuMore
before they stopped supplying these. Apparently, some later finders of
these machines were not able to get the manual.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
A bench grinder. {LET THE "DRILL DOCTOR" GUYS FREAK!!!)

Sorry, but I don't think I can grind a flat bottom drill
or a 45 deg angel drill point with a bench grinder.
cs

I think you could with a little practice, Charles. I do it all the time,
although I worked as a machinist for the vast majority of my life and
practiced hand grinding tools almost daily. It can be done, and very
successfully.

Harold

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Charles A. Sherwood wrote:

Sometimes I need a special drill for a model project.
For example, I need a drill with a 45 deg point.
Another other project needed a flat bottom drill.

I am looking for recomendations on a drill
sharpener that can grind these special points.

Any recomendations? I don't want to spend a forturne
on something I will only use once a year.

chuck

No matter how much they charge you once a year, it would be cheaper
to go to a commercial tool & cutter grind shop and have your custom
grinds done. Say you would have put $150 into a drill grinder. That
money would bring you what, $3 in interest in a year? If you are
going to have 2 drills sharpened special grind, that might cost you
$5 a year. You can see it's a money-losing proposition to own a
machine.

Chuckle! I love your philosophy, Grant!

I'm of the opinion that the convenience of owning tools far outweighs the
inconvenience of discovering you need something special ground, driving to a
given shop, waiting for them to work it in, maybe today, maybe next week,
and making the drive back to pick it up, mean time you're stopped on the
project. Factor in the inconvenience and subcontracting simple jobs like
this makes no sense. Especially when they can be done with surprising
results by hand with a pedestal grinder.

Besides, isn't part of the challenge of doing it at home in *doing it at
home*? Having it done by others sort of defeats the purpose.

Harold

The M series Darex(discontinued) would. I have one and have used it to do
both flat point and 45° points

Randy



"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Waynemak wrote:
I have a Darex that works great for tips

Will it do flat bottom drills and 45 deg angles?

cs