Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old May 30th 20, 04:33 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 96
Default Speaking of TiN coated drills was Followup: Choosing a set of drill bits

On Fri, 29 May 2020 14:38:13 -0400, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 May 2020 20:56:30 -0700, Corvid
wrote:

On 05/28/2020 07:40 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 5/28/2020 11:53 AM, wrote:
I have slowly been replacing my bits with ones from
DrillHog. The
Ebay store is less expensive than on Amazon. They are
claimed to be
made in the US and have a lifetime warranty.


Is a warranty useful? I assume that it would cover
breakage, but not
anything else. I occasionally break bits, but they are
almost
always the small, inexpensive ones.

Lifetime Warranties can be useless, covering only the
originally
purchased (and short lived) item, but *not* its
replacement. I learned
that scam with some ****ty headlights.

What lifetime?
Often "the lifetime of the original installation"
Translated as "untill it fails"? or the replacement is
"not the
original installation"?
Better is "the lifetime of the original owner"
Or "transferable to second owner with notice"
Or "Will be replaced if it EVER breaks"
Lifetime warranty against "failure of workmanship or
materials"
doesn't really cover much if they can get out of it by
saying it was
mis-used or claim "normal wear and tear"


Many years ago I bought a set of left-hand drills to try
removing broken studs. The first drill I tried was a 7/32
and it snagged in the hole and twisted into a right hand!
Junk.....

I have a couple left hand bits that started out right handed, of
course they don't have any relief on the lands either. they showed up
in boxes of miscellaneous "good stuff" during "Saturday morning
shopping"

  #22   Report Post  
Old May 31st 20, 07:38 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9,022
Default Followup: Choosing a set of drill bits

On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:56:14 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Bob La Londe on Tue, 26 May 2020 12:02:56 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 5/26/2020 8:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
I've had decent luck with the cobalt drills from HF as well, but to be
fair I've had ok luck with their cheaper drills as well.

==============================

In steel?


Yes. Although that's so broad its not really a question. 1018 isn't
much harder than aluminum, and I'd challenge any steel drill to punch
holes in harder alloys for very long without burning up. (I do have
some carbide drills, but I mostly use them for aluminum.)

On a project making 304 stainless steel pens (multiples) a couple years
ago I was able to drill out more bodies per sharpening with Precision
than with HF drills, but out of the box the HF was sharp and the
Precision Twist Drill just rubbed.

The HF would drill about 3 bodies (both halves) and the Precision would
drill 6-10 (both halves) before needing to be resharpened. Yes, better
drills are better, but a properly ground drill actually drills.


As a friend says "Technique can matter more than tool quality."

In this case "cheap sharp drills are better than expensive dull
ones."

OT3H, I've look at some Henry Taylor carving gouges, but they are
shipped "blunt". As in "first you'll have to finish the bevel, then
sharpen the edge, then hone it." Which I kind of sort of can do with
chisels, but on curved gouges? Not sure I could do that without a lot
of learning curve.


Gouge a hole in some hardwood with the gouge in question. Add some
diamond paste to the hole. Replace the gouge in the hole and hone.
Profiled rubber sanding forms can be handy for this, too.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...-sanding-grips

--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  #23   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 03:57 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 2,578
Default Followup: Choosing a set of drill bits

On 2020-05-26, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 5/25/2020 1:00 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2020 12:17:42 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 10:59:51 AM UTC-5, rangerssuck wrote:


First: Big shout out to my Drill Doctor. I had to drill three #19
holes in cast iron yesterday and all I had was my set of HF TiN drills.
Had to sharpen the bit for each hole, but I did get through the job OK.
Drill Doctor made quick work of it.


Second: Enough is enough already. I have had enough screwing around
with garbage bits. I'm looking to buy my last set of drill bits.
Generally the 115 piece sets (1/16 - 1/2, A-Z, 1-60) fit my needs. I'm
not looking to break the bank, but I don't want to cheap out, either.
So, I'm looking for suggestions. If you were looking for a complete set
of drills, what would you buy?


I had a job that involved drilling through stainless electrical
control panels last month. Having been ****ed off too many times by my
crappy drills, I decided to take a look at some cobalt drills. After
doing my research, I decided to take a shot on the Harbor Freight cobalt
drills.


Holy crap, these are the real deal. A night & day difference from
the "HSS" drills they sell. Rather than looking like a boy scout trying
to start a fire, these things just make holes. really easy to drill a
half-inch hole (in three steps) with a 20V Porter Cable.


I haven't tried the HF ones, but I have a set of cobalt steel
number-sized bits (with split points), and find them excellent.
Whenever I need to replace a bit from the HHS Cleveland bits in my 115
bit set, I order individual cobalt steel with split point.

I don't expect a drill doctor (certainly not mine, which is one
of the early ones of that name) to do a proper job making a split point
on smaller bits (e.g. 3/16" or smaller), but I vastly prefer the
behavior of cobalt steel with split points to standard chisel-point
bits.

If I could afford it, I would get the full 115 bit set in
quality Cobalt steel with split points. As it is, the bits which get
worn out most rapidly do get replaced with the Cobalt with split points.

If I need to sharpen one from 1/4" down, *without* split point,
I've got an antique DuMore drill sharpener which does an excellent job
on chisel points from 1/4" down to #70.

BTW If you have gotten an index with a 115 bit set, and the
index is made by Huot (generally the best index brand that I have
found), look carefully in the section for the fractional size bits, and
you will see a spring clip on the angled divider. If you have wondered
what that clip is for -- get a Huot index for #61-#80 bits and it clips
in there so your 115 piece set becomes a 135 piece set. :-)

I bought the less-expensive fractional set and a set of cobalt step
drills (which also fly through stainless). I will be watching the sales
and jumping on a 115 piece set soon. Just today, I had an HF HSS #21
drill bend(!) while drilling on a drill press in 1/8" aluminum. Not
doing this again.


That is pretty bad. I've bought inexpensive 115 bit sets (TiN
coated) and discovered that some of them are sharpened backwards. (This
aside from ones which jam during the drilling in steel and suddenly
acquire a reverse twist. :-)

Just thought this might be handy information for someone.


And I've added my personal experience above.

[ ... ]

I've had decent luck with the cobalt drills from HF as well, but to be
fair I've had ok luck with their cheaper drills as well.


Making me wonder just how variable the sets are -- and how good
your luck is. Perhaps you just bought each on a very good day. :-)

That being said I bought some decent brand name drills for all the
standard sizes and a modest metric set. Cleveland, Precision, etc.
Some of them I found to be dishearteningly disappointing. Well, until I
took them over to the grinder and reground them.


A pity I don't have a sharpener which can put a *good* split
point on the smaller bits. I've tried it with my older Drill Doctor,
and once brought to a meeting where someone else who had good split
point luck with his brought his as well. We both brought sample bits,
too. It turns out that his good experience was with bits say 5/16" or
larger, and my bad experience was with bits 3/16" and smaller. Same
results with both drill doctors. :-)

So -- I use the DuMore (with its set of point steadying collets)
to get a good chisel point on bits -- (even those which started out with
a good split point before dulling too far to use), and that is typically
enough to get a project completed -- until I get an order of a half
dozen or dozen cobalt steel split point bits to replace them. :-) A pity
that the DuMore can't handle bigger than 1/4" bits. :-(

I started out in the 115 bit index with ordering 1/4", 3/8" and
1/2" in cobalt split point as replacements -- even before those got
dulled. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #24   Report Post  
Old June 29th 20, 05:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,679
Default Followup: Choosing a set of drill bits

On 6/25/2020 7:57 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2020-05-26, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 5/25/2020 1:00 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2020 12:17:42 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 10:59:51 AM UTC-5, rangerssuck wrote:


First: Big shout out to my Drill Doctor. I had to drill three #19
holes in cast iron yesterday and all I had was my set of HF TiN drills.
Had to sharpen the bit for each hole, but I did get through the job OK.
Drill Doctor made quick work of it.


Second: Enough is enough already. I have had enough screwing around
with garbage bits. I'm looking to buy my last set of drill bits.
Generally the 115 piece sets (1/16 - 1/2, A-Z, 1-60) fit my needs. I'm
not looking to break the bank, but I don't want to cheap out, either.
So, I'm looking for suggestions. If you were looking for a complete set
of drills, what would you buy?


I had a job that involved drilling through stainless electrical
control panels last month. Having been ****ed off too many times by my
crappy drills, I decided to take a look at some cobalt drills. After
doing my research, I decided to take a shot on the Harbor Freight cobalt
drills.


Holy crap, these are the real deal. A night & day difference from
the "HSS" drills they sell. Rather than looking like a boy scout trying
to start a fire, these things just make holes. really easy to drill a
half-inch hole (in three steps) with a 20V Porter Cable.


I haven't tried the HF ones, but I have a set of cobalt steel
number-sized bits (with split points), and find them excellent.
Whenever I need to replace a bit from the HHS Cleveland bits in my 115
bit set, I order individual cobalt steel with split point.

I don't expect a drill doctor (certainly not mine, which is one
of the early ones of that name) to do a proper job making a split point
on smaller bits (e.g. 3/16" or smaller), but I vastly prefer the
behavior of cobalt steel with split points to standard chisel-point
bits.

If I could afford it, I would get the full 115 bit set in
quality Cobalt steel with split points. As it is, the bits which get
worn out most rapidly do get replaced with the Cobalt with split points.

If I need to sharpen one from 1/4" down, *without* split point,
I've got an antique DuMore drill sharpener which does an excellent job
on chisel points from 1/4" down to #70.

BTW If you have gotten an index with a 115 bit set, and the
index is made by Huot (generally the best index brand that I have
found), look carefully in the section for the fractional size bits, and
you will see a spring clip on the angled divider. If you have wondered
what that clip is for -- get a Huot index for #61-#80 bits and it clips
in there so your 115 piece set becomes a 135 piece set. :-)

I bought the less-expensive fractional set and a set of cobalt step
drills (which also fly through stainless). I will be watching the sales
and jumping on a 115 piece set soon. Just today, I had an HF HSS #21
drill bend(!) while drilling on a drill press in 1/8" aluminum. Not
doing this again.


That is pretty bad. I've bought inexpensive 115 bit sets (TiN
coated) and discovered that some of them are sharpened backwards. (This
aside from ones which jam during the drilling in steel and suddenly
acquire a reverse twist. :-)

Just thought this might be handy information for someone.


And I've added my personal experience above.

[ ... ]

I've had decent luck with the cobalt drills from HF as well, but to be
fair I've had ok luck with their cheaper drills as well.


Making me wonder just how variable the sets are -- and how good
your luck is. Perhaps you just bought each on a very good day. :-)

That being said I bought some decent brand name drills for all the
standard sizes and a modest metric set. Cleveland, Precision, etc.
Some of them I found to be dishearteningly disappointing. Well, until I
took them over to the grinder and reground them.


A pity I don't have a sharpener which can put a *good* split
point on the smaller bits. I've tried it with my older Drill Doctor,
and once brought to a meeting where someone else who had good split
point luck with his brought his as well. We both brought sample bits,
too. It turns out that his good experience was with bits say 5/16" or
larger, and my bad experience was with bits 3/16" and smaller. Same
results with both drill doctors. :-)

So -- I use the DuMore (with its set of point steadying collets)
to get a good chisel point on bits -- (even those which started out with
a good split point before dulling too far to use), and that is typically
enough to get a project completed -- until I get an order of a half
dozen or dozen cobalt steel split point bits to replace them. :-) A pity
that the DuMore can't handle bigger than 1/4" bits. :-(

I started out in the 115 bit index with ordering 1/4", 3/8" and
1/2" in cobalt split point as replacements -- even before those got
dulled. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.



I don't own a Drill Doctor, but some day I hope to own a decent tool and
cutter grinder. For now I hand grind drill bits on the bench grinder.
Often my grinds are more effective than the factory grind on high dollar
known name drills. I'm not good enough that I put any of my hand grinds
into one of the CNC mills and just "trust" them. For shallow prespotted
holes they are okay. That being said I can take a little more care and
get a decent hand grind. I can also split the point with a rotary hand
piece and a small abrassive wheel. I'm not as good at that, but again
if I take care I can do an okay job. The biggest help to me was a
magnifying lamp mounted on my work bench near the bench grinder. I'll
swing it over the grinder to put the primary grinds on, and then over
the vise where I can split the point. When I feel good and with a
little luck I've used my hand ground split point drills to deep drill
stainless for things like stainless steel pen bodies. 3/16 is also
about my limit, but in a pinch I have done drills freehand as small as
#21. #21 is a common size I use all the time for 10-32 threaded holes.
I try to keep fresh clean new spares, but it doesn't always happen.

FYI: I usually do a 3 facet grind, but I can do a round fall away grind
as well. The 3 facet grind is easier and faster. Particularly with
badly damaged drills.

Smaller drills I usually just throw away and replace. They are cheap.


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