I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal.

" If this works, you will all be dazzled by my brilliance! "

Or baffled by your bull****. Either way I am looking forward to being
entertained.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16" says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 14:29:51 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16" says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if they're
talking gross horsepower.
Remove the chain and take the thing to an RC hobby shop. They will for
sure have optical tachs for sale. They will probably check the RPM for
free if you ask nicely. Make a constrasting mark on the sprocket
before you bring it in. Maybe color half the sproket with a black
Sharpie.
Eric

On 11/2/2017 10:24 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Hard to know from your (lack of) description, but I'll offer warning...

My limited experience with Works tools is that they're near the bottom
for ruggedness.
In general, a cheap hand tool rated at 3.5 HP may deliver that for
short bursts, maybe. It's not designed for ANY continuous duty,
at any power level.

Again, my limited experience with electric chainsaws and related
devices is that the universal motors with brushes fail because
the brush overheats and melts the plastic, yes, the brush holders
are typically plastic. It seems to be working fine, but the next time
you turn it on, the plastic has hardened around the brush and it's stuck.
You can often take it apart and free it up. It will work for a while
until it freezes up again.

I'd not put a lot of time or $$ into a project based on a Worx motor.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want
to use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled by my brilliance!

and if it doesn't work...?

My Husqvarna 350 tops out around 12,000 RPM.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16" says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want
to use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled by my brilliance!

The question is what is its RPM when producing the power the load
needs. Could you fake the drive with hardware store vee belts and
pulleys to find out?

My collection of pulleys that weren't the right size has helped a lot
on subsequent projects.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16" says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage; divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws, I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

The RPM at what point? Under load? Tht's going to be tough unless you can
rig up a brake or drive a pump with a restricting valve.

Just driving the chain? A couple of people have proposed some methods.

Under no load? Be careful. If it's a shunt wound or permanent magnet motor,
it will be OK. If it's a series wound motor, there is no theoretical maximum
RPM and it could be damaged by overspeed.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Plaese porrf raed befre postng.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws, I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to toss
its magic smoke..

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws, I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs carry
a horsepower rating—our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 15:13:59 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

The RPM at what point? Under load? Tht's going to be tough unless you can
rig up a brake or drive a pump with a restricting valve.

Just driving the chain? A couple of people have proposed some methods.

Under no load? Be careful. If it's a shunt wound or permanent magnet motor,
it will be OK. If it's a series wound motor, there is no theoretical maximum
RPM and it could be damaged by overspeed.

Only one thing I can say for certain - it will NOT be a series motor.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 19:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws, I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs carry
a horsepower rating—our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."


It's called "smoke horsepower"

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax. com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw
that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've
had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on
timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now
make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like
the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital
camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be
sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw
that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from
how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac
draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the
electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by
designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for
a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage
(/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the
motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.

--
Ed Huntress

I thought they measured the peak power at the motor's breakdown
torque, just before speed drops.
http://industrialelectricalco.com/wp...que-curves.pdf

I have a 5.5HP, 3750W generator that struggles to start a 1/2 HP motor
on an air compressor, as long as the tank pressure is low. I can't
measure the compressor motor's torque vs RPM curve but it clearly is
drawing that much electrical power at startup.

-jsw

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax. com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.


On vacuums and compressors it's actually "air horsepower" - and
there is a defined specification

Air horsepower = flow rate ( cubic feet / minute) × pressure (inches
water column) / 6,356

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 19:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5 hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws, I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs carry
a horsepower rating—our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."
Don't know about HP of the "TECO Master" (TECO = T Eato Co) shop vac I
picked up for five bux six years ago - the seller let it go because no
one was interested since it wasn't wet/dry - he had kept it in the
original box with the printed printed sheet "owners manual". When I
opened it up for inspection I found the date stamp "Aug.31 1971".
My son's evaluation as a shop vac is "IT REALLY SUCKS"
I keep it in the laundry room outside the shop door for lint trap
cleaning, puppy haircut cleanup and any other use I come up with like
disk/belt sander dust removal.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:37:00 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want
to use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled by my brilliance!

The question is what is its RPM when producing the power the load
needs. Could you fake the drive with hardware store vee belts and
pulleys to find out?

My collection of pulleys that weren't the right size has helped a lot
on subsequent projects.

I never pass up 25cent pulleys at yard sales, at worst, most come with
a set screw.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax. com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.
I think chainsaw horsepower is measured by how fast it cuts human
flesh.

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!

Cello.

The Portland HF is selling now lists no-load RPM as 5,500, Tawm.
https://manuals.harborfreight.com/ma...7999/67255.pdf pg 8

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 22:15:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I have a 5.5HP, 3750W generator that struggles to start a 1/2 HP motor
on an air compressor, as long as the tank pressure is low. I can't
measure the compressor motor's torque vs RPM curve but it clearly is
drawing that much electrical power at startup.

That's a 10x start-load! I've read that motor startup uses 4-10x the
current, but most I've seen were closer to 4x. That's a biggie.

Have you tried an idler pulley setup to remove the flywheel load from
the motor on startup?

Is it time to plumb in an unloader/pressure switch, or does it already
have one? http://tinyurl.com/yb6f8hgu

Any way to wire in a start cap to help with the current onrush?

Have you verified the genset specs under load?

Are you trying to fix this, or is it posted here only as info, since
the genset does start the compressor?

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 22:15:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax .com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw
that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've
had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on
timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now
make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like
the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital
camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be
sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw
that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from
how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac
draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the
electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by
designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for
a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage
(/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the
motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.

--
Ed Huntress

I thought they measured the peak power at the motor's breakdown
torque, just before speed drops.
http://industrialelectricalco.com/wp...que-curves.pdf

I have a 5.5HP, 3750W generator that struggles to start a 1/2 HP motor
on an air compressor, as long as the tank pressure is low. I can't
measure the compressor motor's torque vs RPM curve but it clearly is
drawing that much electrical power at startup.

-jsw

There are various legitimate ways to measure horsepower, but
electrical power is being misused in those consumer-product ratings we
were discussing.

At stall, all of that power is converted directly to heat. That's
power, but it isn't horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:18:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax .com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.


On vacuums and compressors it's actually "air horsepower" - and
there is a defined specification

Air horsepower = flow rate ( cubic feet / minute) × pressure (inches
water column) / 6,356

Without doing the math, I'll guess that's close to the kinetic power
measured by torque and rpm, or the ability to lift a load at a
specific rate against gravity (the original definition of
"horsepower.")

It doesn't appear that they used such a method to measure the
"horsepower" of my "4.25 hp" Ridgid shop vac. That would blow any fuse
in my house, except for the one on my electric dryer. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 00:13:05 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax .com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.
I think chainsaw horsepower is measured by how fast it cuts human
flesh.

That's Texas Chainsaw Horsepower (TCH).

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 00:13:05 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

I think chainsaw horsepower is measured by how fast it cuts human
flesh.

Gerry has been watching too many Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies.

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:10:28 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want
to use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no
luck researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled by my brilliance!

and if it doesn't work...?

My Husqvarna 350 tops out around 12,000 RPM.

But that's a gas model. Electrics are much, much tamer.

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 22:15:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I have a 5.5HP, 3750W generator that struggles to start a 1/2 HP
motor
on an air compressor, as long as the tank pressure is low. I can't
measure the compressor motor's torque vs RPM curve but it clearly is
drawing that much electrical power at startup.

That's a 10x start-load! I've read that motor startup uses 4-10x
the
current, but most I've seen were closer to 4x. That's a biggie.

Have you tried an idler pulley setup to remove the flywheel load
from
the motor on startup?

Is it time to plumb in an unloader/pressure switch, or does it
already
have one? http://tinyurl.com/yb6f8hgu

Any way to wire in a start cap to help with the current onrush?

Have you verified the genset specs under load?

Are you trying to fix this, or is it posted here only as info, since
the genset does start the compressor?

The compressor motor has a starting cap.

I replaced the 1970's Load Genie unloader and swapped the copper tube
that may have been stressing it for rubber power steering hose rated
175PSI, 302F but still don't hear the hiss of it unloading, however
the compressor works fine on grid power. I only noticed the no-start
during a long power outage.

If I have to inflate another tire on someone's neglected generator
during an outage I can loosen the head outlet fitting or use the 12V
compressor from the car.

-jsw

On Thursday, November 2, 2017 at 10:18:27 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 21:09:44 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 20:26:14 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 16:18:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:1unmvc95lkhs0ufmfla2ta6nanaamsk20r@4ax. com...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:38:23 -0400, Leon Fisk

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:24:25 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that
I
want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had
no
luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine
all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing
belt
sprockets close to optimal. If this works, you will all be
dazzled
by
my brilliance!

Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make
another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the
old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and
record
the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency.
Viola!

A big, 16" bar, 15A corded electric Makita chainsaw has a
no-load
chain speed of 2900 ft/min -- 48 fps. I'd use my digital camera
in
timed multi-shot mode (10 frames/sec., I think) and take a
series
of
photos, and then measure the distance between a marker in two
sequential shots. You'd have to do it multiple times to be sure
you
get two visible, sequential photos with the marker.

Then work backward from the sprocket and chain pitches to get
the
motor rpm.

(Yes, there must be a simpler way.)

For reference, I saw specs on a Greenworks corded 14.5A saw that
said
6000 rpm. Another saw said 5500 rpm. A Remington Versa 12A 16"
says
3200 rpm.

If this is a cordless saw, all bets are off. As for 3.5
hp...that
sounds like Sears or Ridgid horsepower to me -- like 22A, if
they're
talking gross horsepower.

--
Ed Huntress

I've seen a rating in "electrical horsepower" calculated from how
much
juice it pulls, probably without considering efficiency or power
factor.

I think that some of them, including Ridgid, don't even go that
far.
They stall it and measure the current; multiply by the voltage;
divide
by 750; and claim that as "horsepower." My Ridgid shop vac draws,
I
think, 10A when it's running. But they claim it has "4.25 [peak]
horsepower."

HA-Ha-ha-ho!

--
Ed Huntress

We should call that "puke" horsepower since the motor is about to
toss
its magic smoke..

Yeah, that would be a better term for it. This is what Popular
Mechanics said about it in a shop-vac comparison. To me, this is
unbelievable:

"In addition to being designated by capacity, most wet/dry vacs
carry
a horsepower rating-our test units range up to 6.5 hp. But if you
think that means a vac motor is as powerful as a garden-tiller
engine,
think again. Like many other consumer-grade tools, the horsepower
rating is modified by the word "peak." This indicates the electrical
draw at the point where the motor is overloaded and stalls. The
upshot? Horsepower ratings aren't the most accurate way to compare
wet/dry vacs. Looking at amperage makes more sense."

--
Ed Huntress

Well, the motor is physically able to do it, just not for long.
Kettering made the automotive electric starter practical by designing
for brief peak power, 5 HP from a motor smaller than a 1/2 HP
continuous-duty motor.

-jsw

OK, but this isn't real horsepower they're talking about -- even for a
minute. They're defining "horsepower" as current times voltage (/747).

But if that's "horsepower, then you could have a really big power
resistor that developed 10 horsepower. g

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.


On vacuums and compressors it's actually "air horsepower" - and
there is a defined specification

Air horsepower = flow rate ( cubic feet / minute) × pressure (inches
water column) / 6,356

and on (non electric) motors, it's 550 foot-pounds per second. the picture that makes in my head is this: A motor with a 1 foot radius drum attached, winding a rope. If that rope can lift a one pound weight 550 feet in one second, that's a one horsepower motor. If nothing is moving, it's not doing useful work.

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
...
and on (non electric) motors, it's 550 foot-pounds per second. the
picture that makes in my head is this: A motor with a 1 foot radius
drum attached, winding a rope. If that rope can lift a one pound
weight 550 feet in one second, that's a one horsepower motor. If
nothing is moving, it's not doing useful work.
======================

Th Harbor Freight 1300Lb electric hoist can give an easily measured
demonstration of electrical and mechanical horsepower.

-jsw

On 11/2/2017 9:09 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.


It was the same guy that measured amplifier output in car stereos in the
70's.

On 11/2/2017 2:04 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Tom Gardner"Â* wrote in message news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project.Â* I need to know the RPM.Â* I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm.Â* I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal.

" If this works, you will all be dazzled by my brilliance! "

Or baffled by your bull****.Â* Either way I am looking forward to being
entertained.




It really is a good, useful idea, it will be a bit harder to build now
that I no longer have a machine shop. But using hand tools is good
practice. I will have to farm out a couple of turnings and a bit of
mill work.

On 11/2/2017 3:44 PM, mike wrote:
On 11/2/2017 10:24 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project.Â* I need to know the RPM.Â* I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm.Â* I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal.Â* If this works, you will all be dazzled by
my brilliance!

Hard to know from your (lack of) description, but I'll offerÂ* warning...

My limited experience with Works tools is that they're near the bottom
for ruggedness.
In general, a cheap hand tool rated at 3.5 HP may deliver that for
short bursts, maybe.Â* It's not designed for ANY continuous duty,
at any power level.

Again, my limited experience with electric chainsaws and related
devices is that the universal motors with brushes fail because
the brush overheats and melts the plastic, yes, the brush holders
are typically plastic.Â* It seems to be working fine, but the next time
you turn it on, the plastic has hardened around the brush and it's stuck.
You can often take it apart and free it up.Â* It will work for a while
until it freezes up again.

I'd not put a lot of time or $$ into a project based on a Worx motor.


I wont be taxing the motor very much and it doesn't need to last long,
just long enough to demonstrate the concept for a while. I got the
cheapest one with the most "power". It should do the job as I have
defines it.

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 03:28:42 -0400
Tom Gardner wrote:

snip
It really is a good, useful idea, it will be a bit harder to build now
that I no longer have a machine shop. But using hand tools is good
practice. I will have to farm out a couple of turnings and a bit of
mill work.

There is a maker-space kind of operation locally here that has mills,
lathes, tools... for use. You pay a monthly fee or some such for access.

It looks like there is something similar in Cleveland. Might be worth
checking out if you haven't already...

http://www.makersalliance.org/

The Cleveland Library has a 3D printer and a few other goodies too:

https://cpl.org/subjectscollections/...al/makerspace/

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 11/2/2017 1:38 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
Affix something to the chain that sticks out a little. Now make another
attachment or hold something close by that will hit it. Like the old
clothespin, playing card and bicycle spokes. Turn it on and record the
sound. Use something like Audacity to measure the frequency. Viola!


I like it ... that's really clever! The only tricky part is affixing
something to the chain - there's not much clearance. I'd tack weld, or
solder, a bit of wire.

On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 12:40:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 22:15:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I have a 5.5HP, 3750W generator that struggles to start a 1/2 HP
motor
on an air compressor, as long as the tank pressure is low. I can't
measure the compressor motor's torque vs RPM curve but it clearly is
drawing that much electrical power at startup.

That's a 10x start-load! I've read that motor startup uses 4-10x
the
current, but most I've seen were closer to 4x. That's a biggie.

Have you tried an idler pulley setup to remove the flywheel load
from
the motor on startup?

Is it time to plumb in an unloader/pressure switch, or does it
already
have one? http://tinyurl.com/yb6f8hgu

Any way to wire in a start cap to help with the current onrush?

Have you verified the genset specs under load?

Are you trying to fix this, or is it posted here only as info, since
the genset does start the compressor?

The compressor motor has a starting cap.

I replaced the 1970's Load Genie unloader and swapped the copper tube
that may have been stressing it for rubber power steering hose rated
175PSI, 302F but still don't hear the hiss of it unloading, however
the compressor works fine on grid power. I only noticed the no-start
during a long power outage.

So do you hear the hiss when on grid power? Could the resiliency of
the rubber hose bypass the function of the unloader? I haven't seen a
crossection of the valve, or had one apart, so I'm not certain how it
works. It sounds like there may be a spool in there which opens the
check valve to allow filling, and it then releases the valve and
covers the orifice/uncovers the vent orifice when the pressure switch
turns off the compressor motor.

If it's only affected after a power outage, could the start cap on the
motor be leaking down?


If I have to inflate another tire on someone's neglected generator
during an outage I can loosen the head outlet fitting or use the 12V
compressor from the car.

I finally bought one of those 12v jobs. Haven't had a flat for 30
years, but the time-before-last when I did, the spare was down. After
that, I regularly thumped the spare to verify air. Now, my Tundra
spare and the 4 on the ground have pressure sensors. Handy!

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 03:16:24 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 11/2/2017 9:09 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

That electrical value is "power," but it's just *potential*
horsepower. If you measured actual, kinetic horsepower, in terms of
torque times rpm, it would be a minute fraction of that. If the motor
is stalled, there's no real horsepower at all.

I wonder if Sears started that practice? That was the first place I
remember seeing it.


It was the same guy that measured amplifier output in car stereos in the
70's.

Ayup. Is that a real poncho or is that a Searz poncho?

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message news
On 11/2/2017 2:04 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message news
I have a new 3.5hp (I think) "Works" largest 14" chainsaw that I want to
use the motor for a project. I need to know the RPM. I've had no luck
researching this and I no longer have an RPM meter. I imagine all
chainsaws have similar rpm. I need to get the ratios on timing belt
sprockets close to optimal.

" If this works, you will all be dazzled by my brilliance! "

Or baffled by your bull****. Either way I am looking forward to being
entertained.




It really is a good, useful idea, it will be a bit harder to build now
that I no longer have a machine shop. But using hand tools is good
practice. I will have to farm out a couple of turnings and a bit of
mill work.

***

If you don't mind some shipping costs I can help you out with some basic
stuff. I'm not a "real" machinist, but I am perfectly competent at turning
stock into a pile of unrecoverable chips.