Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

--
Ed Huntress

Very nice article. I also find myself using battery powered tools more
and more. Beats running extension cords for every little thing. I have
a battery powered angle grinder, impact wrench, drill etc. For one or
two cuts or unscrewing a couple of nuts, they are indispensable.

i

On 2016-07-19, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:59:10 -0500, Ignoramus12525
wrote:

Very nice article. I also find myself using battery powered tools more
and more. Beats running extension cords for every little thing. I have
a battery powered angle grinder, impact wrench, drill etc. For one or
two cuts or unscrewing a couple of nuts, they are indispensable.

i

On 2016-07-19, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.


Thanks. The power of these things is now pretty impressive. What
impresses me more is the run time.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.


I use cordless tools in the shop all the time. 1/4", 3/8" drivers, 1/2"
impact. They are real nice when you're out in a salvage yard, makes
pulling the 20 parts off to get to the one you need so much faster...

The impacts are getting pretty good but air still has them beat for raw
power and lifespan as well as total cost of ownership. I still have my
first IR air impact gun and it's well over 30 yars old. Still works like
the day I got it and has had one rebuild (vanes and one bearing replaced)

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.


I use cordless tools in the shop all the time. 1/4", 3/8" drivers, 1/2"
impact. They are real nice when you're out in a salvage yard, makes
pulling the 20 parts off to get to the one you need so much faster...

The impacts are getting pretty good but air still has them beat for raw
power and lifespan as well as total cost of ownership. I still have my
first IR air impact gun and it's well over 30 yars old. Still works like
the day I got it and has had one rebuild (vanes and one bearing replaced)

--
Steve W.

I have had a number of cheap air impacts, and finally bought an IR 1/2" a
few years ago. Other than being an airhog it is head and shoulders above
anything I've ever used except for the 35+ year old Chicago Pneumatic stuff
my dad has. I remember breaking down engines with his CP air ratchet that
some cheap impacts wouldn't touch. Ok, maybe that was a rosy glasses
moment. LOL.













---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:59:10 -0500, Ignoramus12525
wrote:

Very nice article. I also find myself using battery powered tools more
and more. Beats running extension cords for every little thing. I have
a battery powered angle grinder, impact wrench, drill etc. For one or
two cuts or unscrewing a couple of nuts, they are indispensable.

Yeah, guys with smaller jobs would like battery powered tools more.

The angle grinders and circular saws are the hardest on the batteries.
You can hear the RPMs start dropping after about a minute of use. I'd
-never- buy a cordless 9" grinder. For the really tough work, you
have to have a cord. (Or LOTS of batteries and the patience to
constantly swap 'em between the chargers and tool.) The 36v are
probably the way to go if you don't want a cord and have larger jobs.

I went between 14.4v, 18v nicad, and 18v LION on 3 consecutive
impactors, and the difference wasn't great, but the convenience was.
The Bosch 14.4 and Milwaukee 18 LION (sm batt) last about the same,
while the Makita 18 with the 3Ah LIONs lasted the longest. The tools
with the lithiums were over a pound lighter than the old nicad. The
nicads charged in 25-28mins, the lithiums 15. Convenient! I like the
new (free, won in raffle) Milwaukee batteries have 4-LED battery
status lamps, so I can swap a new battery when I know I'll be needing
it nonstop for awhile. When I was building decks, knowing how long my
battery would last would have been very handy, but I won the Milwaukee
after tapering off the larger jobs.


On 2016-07-19, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

What a convenient footrest!

My favorite use for a battery drill was the creeping scaffold.
http://www.markchick.com/site/crawle...r_features.htm

And this one belongs at Burning Man
http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/...ex-scooter.jpg

Hougen Ogura makes a nifty battery-powered metal punch
http://www.coptool.com/category/brands/hougen/ (scroll down 8 screens)

--
It is easier to fool people than it is to
convince people that they have been fooled.
--Mark Twain

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

I use cordless tools in the shop all the time. 1/4", 3/8" drivers, 1/2"
impact. They are real nice when you're out in a salvage yard, makes
pulling the 20 parts off to get to the one you need so much faster...

The impacts are getting pretty good but air still has them beat for raw
power and lifespan as well as total cost of ownership. I still have my
first IR air impact gun and it's well over 30 yars old. Still works like
the day I got it and has had one rebuild (vanes and one bearing replaced)

--
Steve W.

I have had a number of cheap air impacts, and finally bought an IR 1/2" a
few years ago. Other than being an airhog it is head and shoulders above
anything I've ever used except for the 35+ year old Chicago Pneumatic stuff
my dad has. I remember breaking down engines with his CP air ratchet that
some cheap impacts wouldn't touch. Ok, maybe that was a rosy glasses
moment. LOL.



Yeah there is a big difference from the 19.99 impacts to the name brand
units. For folks on a budget the Earthquake units at HF actually are not
bad. BUT test them and run them a lot in the first week or two.
Defects tend to show up quick in air tools.

--
Steve W.

On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:45:33 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

I've been using cordless tools for something like 30 years, beginning
with one of the original Makita 6 volt drills. Indispensable. Mostly
I've had Makita and Dewalt stuff. But I've given up on buying
expensive models. The last straw was when a Makita battery electronics
failed, forcing me to charge it manually with a power supply. A
replacement battery cost as much as a Ryobi drill/ battery/charger, so
I switched to Ryobi a few years ago. I have 5 chargers, 11 batteries,
and 9 tools. Mostly purchased as combo sets on sale, which means I
ended up with extra drills that I gave away. Surprising even myself
(an admitted tool maven), all those tools, batteries and chargers were
occasionally in use at the same time with 3 of us working. A friend
(large professional shop) has a similar setup, but perhaps three times
as much stuff. Sometimes he has a dozen people working. We agree, none
of these tools owes us anything, and we wouldn't lose a minute's sleep
if any of them expired. My friend (longer history with Ryobi) has had
a few failures. I've had none, but another friend had a side grinder
die recently. It always ran hot though, probably a defective brush
holder. Bottom line, the Royobi cordless tools are the best value for
this amateur and at least one professional.

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 9:55:29 PM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

My favorite use for a battery drill was the creeping scaffold.
http://www.markchick.com/site/crawle...r_features.htm


I had seen that on "Cool Tools" or some other such show and thought it was great. but a thousand bucks? That's pretty steep. I'd rather wait for the Harbor Freight model.

On 7/20/2016 10:22 AM, The Voice wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:45:33 -0700, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

I've been using cordless tools for something like 30 years, beginning
with one of the original Makita 6 volt drills. Indispensable. Mostly
I've had Makita and Dewalt stuff. But I've given up on buying
expensive models. The last straw was when a Makita battery electronics
failed, forcing me to charge it manually with a power supply. A
replacement battery cost as much as a Ryobi drill/ battery/charger, so
I switched to Ryobi a few years ago. I have 5 chargers, 11 batteries,
and 9 tools. Mostly purchased as combo sets on sale, which means I
ended up with extra drills that I gave away. Surprising even myself
(an admitted tool maven), all those tools, batteries and chargers were
occasionally in use at the same time with 3 of us working. A friend
(large professional shop) has a similar setup, but perhaps three times
as much stuff. Sometimes he has a dozen people working. We agree, none
of these tools owes us anything, and we wouldn't lose a minute's sleep
if any of them expired. My friend (longer history with Ryobi) has had
a few failures. I've had none, but another friend had a side grinder
die recently. It always ran hot though, probably a defective brush
holder. Bottom line, the Royobi cordless tools are the best value for
this amateur and at least one professional.

Thanks for the tip. By-the-by, I would not have guessed that cordless
drills (or other serious cordless tools) had been around that long. I'm
not sure when I first became aware of them - maybe in the 1990s when I
saw my younger brother using them.

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 7:35:39 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

--
Ed Huntress

I'm currently using Porter-Cable 20V Lithium tools, and they're great. way more powerful than the 18V Bosch tools they replaced. I had occasion to use some 18V Makita Brushless tools last week, and I was impressed.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:45:34 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 7:35:39 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

At the end of it, there's a mention of "John Doe's" DeWalt-powered
bicycle, and a photo of it.

--
Ed Huntress

I'm currently using Porter-Cable 20V Lithium tools, and they're great. way more powerful than the 18V Bosch tools they replaced. I had occasion to use some 18V Makita Brushless tools last week, and I was impressed.
I have a couple of the old Makita 9.6 volt drills with the nicad
batteries. I also have a set of a drill and impact driver made by
Makita that is the newer lithium battery powerd style. Half the weight
and at least as much power. Faster charging too. Way faster. I wanna
get a new set because I know how much better they will be.
Eric

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:55:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:59:10 -0500, Ignoramus12525
wrote:

Very nice article. I also find myself using battery powered tools more
and more. Beats running extension cords for every little thing. I have
a battery powered angle grinder, impact wrench, drill etc. For one or
two cuts or unscrewing a couple of nuts, they are indispensable.

Yeah, guys with smaller jobs would like battery powered tools more.

The angle grinders and circular saws are the hardest on the batteries.
You can hear the RPMs start dropping after about a minute of use. I'd
-never- buy a cordless 9" grinder. For the really tough work, you
have to have a cord. (Or LOTS of batteries and the patience to
constantly swap 'em between the chargers and tool.) The 36v are
probably the way to go if you don't want a cord and have larger jobs.


I can maybe one up that, the battery power chain saw.

Even though the saw is laid out like a log cutter instead of a tree
trimmer saw, I REALLY LIKE IT for quick pruning of one or two apple
tree branches at a time. No farting around starting up a gas saw, no
need to drag out the hydraulic lines for a hydraulic orbital saw.

It is VERY HARD on batteries. I hope it lasts a year at $350 a pop.

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-4, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

Thanks for your comments. I'm not a good judge of brands these days, as some of the old tool makers have divided their lines into industrial and consumer with very different results, but the ones you listed are pretty close. B&D, although it once made a great industrial line (I have three of their industrial drill motors, all 40 years old or more and going strong), is now one of several companies owned by the same conglomerate, and B&D has been assigned to the consumer market. Still, I have two recent ones, and I have no complaints about them. The same company owns DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, and others. DeWalt is a little higher-end, and Porter-Cable, in the opinion of many,is higher still.

Or they were. Competition is heavy, and they're all jockeying for different market segments. At the premium industrial end you have Fein and Metabo -- and you pay for it. The rest are pretty much head-to-head. (I still favor Milwaukee, but that's based on old experience.)I own a Makita grinder and a Ryobi belt sander, and both are doing fine after years of heavy use.

If I were buying one today, I'd look at reviews by users on the brands you listed. It's a little like cars: nobody can afford to make junk these days, unless they don't expect to stay around.

--
Ed Huntress

Rudy Canoza wrote:

Thanks for the tip. By-the-by, I would not have guessed that cordless
drills (or other serious cordless tools) had been around that long. I'm
not sure when I first became aware of them - maybe in the 1990s when I
saw my younger brother using them.



We had a cordless drill back in the mid '60s at a TV shop. It was
used by the antenna installers. It was bulky, because it had a lead
acid battery pack in a separate steel box. it was unwieldy, and didn't
hold a good charge. It was probably 10 years old, when I worked there.
It was made for industrial unit, and I was told that it had cost over
$400 when they bought it. I can't remember the name, after 50 years. I
never used it, but I did clean out the antenna truck, and make sure it
was charged. After all, I was barely into my teens, at the time.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:01:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Competition is heavy, and they're all jockeying for different market segments.
At the premium industrial end you have Fein and Metabo -- and you pay for it.

When I bought a Ryobi cordless oscillating multi tool, a friend with a
high end corded model poo pooed my purchase. I think his was a Fein.
We put them to the test with similar blades, and his did cut
substantially faster. Then we swapped blades, and the Ryobi was
faster. I wasn't surprised, but he was.

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 8:19:04 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:01:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Competition is heavy, and they're all jockeying for different market segments.
At the premium industrial end you have Fein and Metabo -- and you pay for it.

When I bought a Ryobi cordless oscillating multi tool, a friend with a
high end corded model poo pooed my purchase. I think his was a Fein.
We put them to the test with similar blades, and his did cut
substantially faster. Then we swapped blades, and the Ryobi was
faster. I wasn't surprised, but he was.

Ryobi (part of TTI, as is Milwaukee) and Dremel (now owned by Bosch, IIRC) both came up with models to compete with the Fein Multimaster, once Fein's patents expired. It's not hard to make a more powerful tool, if that's where the competition is. The Fein was the original but the newer ones are built to one-up it in one way or another -- particularly on price.

I own a Multimaster and it's the best-machined hand power tool I've ever seen. That isn't everything, but it's an impressive display of where their heads are at. It works extremely well.

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/20/2016 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-4, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

Thanks for your comments. I'm not a good judge of brands these days, as some of the old tool makers have divided their lines into industrial and consumer with very different results, but the ones you listed are pretty close. B&D, although it once made a great industrial line (I have three of their industrial drill motors, all 40 years old or more and going strong), is now one of several companies owned by the same conglomerate, and B&D has been assigned to the consumer market. Still, I have two recent ones, and I have no complaints about them. The same company owns DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, and others. DeWalt is a little higher-end, and Porter-Cable, in the opinion of many,is higher still.

Or they were. Competition is heavy, and they're all jockeying for different market segments. At the premium industrial end you have Fein and Metabo -- and you pay for it. The rest are pretty much head-to-head. (I still favor Milwaukee, but that's based on old experience.)I own a Makita grinder and a Ryobi belt sander, and both are doing fine after years of heavy use.

If I were buying one today, I'd look at reviews by users on the brands you listed. It's a little like cars: nobody can afford to make junk these days, unless they don't expect to stay around.

My corded drill is Milwaukee, and it has been a good tool; I use it more
than the others combined. I have a DeWalt jigsaw, a Bosch circular saw,
and a Makita orbital sander. All have performed well, but as I said, I
don't do a lot of work with them. The Bosch saw is a worm-drive, and if
I had it to do over again, I'd have got a "sidewinder" for the weight
saving. I got what seemed like a good deal on the Bosch, and I figured
I was going to use it a little more than I have.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 07:35:27 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

Thank you for using Javascript/bootstrap/flipbook instead of Flash!

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Wow, those batteries are imposing. Our garden club bought a 48V trimmer.
That thing is relentless: I think we only charge it every couple of
weeks. At home I have a 12V LiIon trimmer that discharges in about 30
minutes working around the house.

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 2:50:09 PM UTC-4, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On 7/20/2016 4:01 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 12:45:33 PM UTC-4, Rudy Canoza wrote:
On 7/19/2016 4:35 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Good stuff, good article.

I don't do enough work using power tools to justify buying new cordless
tools to replaced my corded ones. I have a drill, a circular saw, a
jigsaw and an orbital sander, all corded. I have given some thought to
replacing the drill, the tool I use most often, but the use is still
seldom enough that I can't quite justify it.

In your view, are the brands typically available at, say, Home Depot all
of roughly comparable quality? Off the top of my head, I recall seeing
DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Ryobi, possibly Black & Decker; I imagine
there are some others I'm not remembering. I'm sure the vast majority
of them are manufactured in China, regardless of the national domicile
of the brands.

Thanks for your comments. I'm not a good judge of brands these days, as some of the old tool makers have divided their lines into industrial and consumer with very different results, but the ones you listed are pretty close. B&D, although it once made a great industrial line (I have three of their industrial drill motors, all 40 years old or more and going strong), is now one of several companies owned by the same conglomerate, and B&D has been assigned to the consumer market. Still, I have two recent ones, and I have no complaints about them. The same company owns DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Delta, and others. DeWalt is a little higher-end, and Porter-Cable, in the opinion of many,is higher still.

Or they were. Competition is heavy, and they're all jockeying for different market segments. At the premium industrial end you have Fein and Metabo -- and you pay for it. The rest are pretty much head-to-head. (I still favor Milwaukee, but that's based on old experience.)I own a Makita grinder and a Ryobi belt sander, and both are doing fine after years of heavy use.

If I were buying one today, I'd look at reviews by users on the brands you listed. It's a little like cars: nobody can afford to make junk these days, unless they don't expect to stay around.

My corded drill is Milwaukee, and it has been a good tool; I use it more
than the others combined. I have a DeWalt jigsaw, a Bosch circular saw,
and a Makita orbital sander. All have performed well, but as I said, I
don't do a lot of work with them. The Bosch saw is a worm-drive, and if
I had it to do over again, I'd have got a "sidewinder" for the weight
saving. I got what seemed like a good deal on the Bosch, and I figured
I was going to use it a little more than I have.

That sounds like a good homeowner's collection of power tools. They're all good brands.

We only had a fairly short period in which the consumer-grade power tools descended in quality. In the late '70s, US power-tool makers were alarmed that the Japanese were beating them up. They redesigned their lines to compete on price -- particularly Sears, Skil, and B&D. Some of the cheaper tools went from ball bearings to plain bearings; Skil and Loctite co-engineered motors that were glued together; all of them developed cheaper gears. The motors were OK but down on power. The gears and bearings were awful. Even the electrical switches were cheap.

That didn't last long. Quality became a big issue, and the manufacturers upgraded. Now, as I mentioned, building junk is a good way to go out of business. Word gets around really fast. Junky tools don't last long on the market.

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:10:05 AM UTC-4, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 07:35:27 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

Fab Shop magazine just published an article on the state of the art in
cordless tools:

http://magazine.fsmdirect.com/2016/july/d/#page7

Thank you for using Javascript/bootstrap/flipbook instead of Flash!

That decision is out of my hands, but I'm glad that it makes you happy. d8-)



RCM members should find it interesting. (How about a 2,500-Watt,
battery-powered, 9-inch angle-head grinder?)

Wow, those batteries are imposing. Our garden club bought a 48V trimmer.
That thing is relentless: I think we only charge it every couple of
weeks. At home I have a 12V LiIon trimmer that discharges in about 30
minutes working around the house.

Talking with a variety of manufacturers, it sounds like everyone has upgraded their batteries and controlling electronics, and that's where most of the competitive game is now.

I can't wait to see Metabo's 2,500-watt (3.3 hp) angle-head cordless grinder. Maybe they'll have it at IMTS in September, or at Fabtech in November, but I don't know yet.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 08:20:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Junky tools don't last long on the market.

Clearly there's a market for very low cost stuff that is sometimes
very bad. I don't fault folks for buying cheap. After all, a large
proportion of tools are bought as gifts and/or destined to live in
closets. I'm reminded of that every time I see an ad for a 100 piece
set of router bits. I have lots of stuff that others would
consider junk, but it's fine for the few times I need it. I've
misjudged occasionally both ways, buying better than I needed, and
buying too cheap for use that turned out to more than expected. One
example, an $80 SDS hammer drill. Didn't think I'd use it enough to
wear it out, but I was wrong. Bought a second one only slightly
better, still miles ahead of buying a brand name model considering my
limited use.

So, if you stick with reputable brands, and if you aren't looking for industrial-type performance,
it's hard to go wrong.

An anecdote: I have a Bosch miter saw. Paid a lot because it was
something I use more than most, but nowhere near as much as a
professional does. People nod approvingly, fine German craftsmanship.
Nope. It's an overpriced but better quality import, and that's all.
Lots of features, some aggravatingly non-intuitive. When it quit, a
**** brush connection was at fault. I patched it up, and the only
reason it's lasting is that it isn't being used every day. That event
and many others have taught me not to be brand loyal, and to accept
that spending a lot doesn't guarantee good quality or good design.

The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.

Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:


The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.

Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.

When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

On 22/07/16 22:13, wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:

The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.
Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.
When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

What vintage was that? My dad and I found in the early/mid 1970s that
buying Sears stuff was not a good idea as too many parts were non
standard and when they failed you either couldn't get the parts or the
replacement part price was as much as a whole new tool. A scroll saw
bought one year needed 4.5" blades and the next year Sears didn't sell
them and no one else did either as the standard was 5", easily fixed
with a 0.5" spacer but a minor PITA. The killer that put my dad off
buying from Sears was a hand drill where the 3 jaw chuck failed and the
replacement cost as much as a new drill, the mounting thread was non
standard for the chuck size so Sears was the only source. Maybe thing
have changed.

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:13:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:


The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.

Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.

When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

Yes, and I have a lot of them -- because my dad was a Sears store general manager. Even my shotgun was Sears. g

They had a promotional sale on corded drill motors around 1962 -- $5. Plain bearings, and plain everything else. I tried to kill mine for around ten years with no luck. Finally, I lost it when we moved.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:01:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:13:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:


The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.

Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.

When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

Yes, and I have a lot of them -- because my dad was a Sears store general manager. Even my shotgun was Sears. g

They had a promotional sale on corded drill motors around 1962 -- $5. Plain bearings, and plain everything else. I tried to kill mine for around ten years with no luck. Finally, I lost it when we moved.
Back in 1979 I was living in a small town in a depressed economy.
There was a Goodwill box in the parking lot and folks would leave
stuff outside the box, even though signs said it was illegal to do so,
so that other folks could see if there was anything they could use
before Goodwill picked it all up. So one day my brother and I were
driving past and since I was the passenger I spied first a box that
looked like it had a Sears drill motor inside. It did. It didn't work
but when I opened it up it was just a wire from the power cord that
came off of a spade connector. After fixing that the drill motor
worked great. It is all cast aluminum, kinda heavy for a 1/4" drill,
but the chuck on it is a very good Jacobs that grips well and runs
very true. I have used that drill motor with sanding discs and worked
it until it was too hot to hold comfortably. It still works great. A
really high quality tool. My brother is still a little miffed at me
for spying it first.
Eric

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:53:03 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

What vintage was that?

Late 50's.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:53:03 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

What vintage was that?

Late 50's.

Dan


Montgomery Ward was the other source for affordable tools.
I still use the welder i bought at thier going out of business sale.
IIRC they even sold logan lathes back in the 50's.
Power-Kraft was thier label.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex...x?id=657&tab=1

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=657

Best Regards
Tom.

Sears stuff is contracts to make stuff. Once a really good one goes
out the lessor takes over due to budget cuts - and we get junk. After
a while, a good one comes on line and away we go again.

I was in Sears some years ago and they had stopped taking tools back.
Some salesmen did but they were careful.

What I see as 'stupid' is going to a estate sale, get the sears tools
and take them back for new ones. (of lower lesser grade steel and such).

Martin

On 7/22/2016 4:53 PM, David Billington wrote:
On 22/07/16 22:13, wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:

The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're
shopping.
Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.
When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either
buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a
lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

What vintage was that? My dad and I found in the early/mid 1970s that
buying Sears stuff was not a good idea as too many parts were non
standard and when they failed you either couldn't get the parts or the
replacement part price was as much as a whole new tool. A scroll saw
bought one year needed 4.5" blades and the next year Sears didn't sell
them and no one else did either as the standard was 5", easily fixed
with a 0.5" spacer but a minor PITA. The killer that put my dad off
buying from Sears was a hand drill where the 3 jaw chuck failed and the
replacement cost as much as a new drill, the mounting thread was non
standard for the chuck size so Sears was the only source. Maybe thing
have changed.

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:39:01 PM UTC-4, Howard Beal wrote:


Montgomery Ward was the other source for affordable tools.
I still use the welder i bought at thier going out of business sale.
IIRC they even sold logan lathes back in the 50's.
Power-Kraft was thier label.


Best Regards
Tom.

You are right. I forgot about MW. I too have one of their welders. It was better than the one Sears sold at that time.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:39:01 PM UTC-4, Howard Beal wrote:


Montgomery Ward was the other source for affordable tools.
I still use the welder i bought at thier going out of business sale.
IIRC they even sold logan lathes back in the 50's.
Power-Kraft was thier label.


Best Regards
Tom.

You are right. I forgot about MW. I too have one of their welders. It
was better than the one Sears sold at that time.

Dan


MW had a huge store in chicago which had a bargain basement where they sold
customer returns, display items,
damaged in shipping goods at big discounts. I used to go there every
saturday morning bargain hunting in the
tools section. Sears had a simular bargain basement in thier shipping
warehouse/store. Lots of fun saturdays
back then.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:54:12 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:01:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:13:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:33:21 PM UTC-4, The Voice wrote:


The individual product reports are easy to find online, if you're shopping.

Yup. No reason to make judgment based on brand or high price.

When I was in college ,some friends and I found that one should either buy Sears Best or Sears Worst. Sears Best if you expected to use it a lot, and Sears Worse if it was likely a one time thing.

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

Yes, and I have a lot of them -- because my dad was a Sears store general manager. Even my shotgun was Sears. g

They had a promotional sale on corded drill motors around 1962 -- $5. Plain bearings, and plain everything else. I tried to kill mine for around ten years with no luck. Finally, I lost it when we moved.
Back in 1979 I was living in a small town in a depressed economy.
There was a Goodwill box in the parking lot and folks would leave
stuff outside the box, even though signs said it was illegal to do so,
so that other folks could see if there was anything they could use
before Goodwill picked it all up. So one day my brother and I were
driving past and since I was the passenger I spied first a box that
looked like it had a Sears drill motor inside. It did. It didn't work
but when I opened it up it was just a wire from the power cord that
came off of a spade connector. After fixing that the drill motor
worked great. It is all cast aluminum, kinda heavy for a 1/4" drill,
but the chuck on it is a very good Jacobs that grips well and runs
very true. I have used that drill motor with sanding discs and worked
it until it was too hot to hold comfortably. It still works great. A
really high quality tool. My brother is still a little miffed at me
for spying it first.
Eric
I have a PET 1/4" drill I bought in 1957 for $17.00 from Canadian
Tire. I don't know how many houses I have wired using it, used it with
grinding wheels, sanding disks, as an improvised lathe and many other
applications. The only reason I don't use it much any more is that I
usually grab yhe cordless one hanging inside the shop doorway.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:39:01 PM UTC-4, Howard Beal wrote:


Montgomery Ward was the other source for affordable tools.
I still use the welder i bought at thier going out of business sale.
IIRC they even sold logan lathes back in the 50's.
Power-Kraft was thier label.


Best Regards
Tom.

You are right. I forgot about MW. I too have one of their welders.
It was better than the one Sears sold at that time.

Dan

I have one of those Logan lathes branded PowrKraft ... in fact , MW was
the driving force that got Logan into the lathe business , their main line
was and still is mine safety equipment . MW wanted a lathe that could
compete with the Atlas that Sears was selling .

--
Snag

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 18:39:16 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 5:53:03 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:

Then Sears was about the only place to buy tool at reasonable prices.

Dan

What vintage was that?

Late 50's.

Dan


Montgomery Ward was the other source for affordable tools.
I still use the welder i bought at thier going out of business sale.
IIRC they even sold logan lathes back in the 50's.
Power-Kraft was thier label.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex...x?id=657&tab=1

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=657

Best Regards
Tom.


Pennys sold tools as well...but they were nowhere as prolific as Sears
or Wards

IRRC..they sold PennCraft tools. Which were rebadged SnapOn back in
the late 60s early 70s..I think.






---
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On 07/23/2016 11:04 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

Pennys sold tools as well...but they were nowhere as prolific as Sears
or Wards

IRRC..they sold PennCraft tools. Which were rebadged SnapOn back in
the late 60s early 70s..I think.
....

Not actually sure who manufactured for JC PennEy, didn't really matter
as wife worked there while we were still in school so got an employee
discount as well as being able to get the sale prices. Have a _ton_ of
the stuff, most of which is still serviceable nearly 50 year
later...that includes a couple drills, circular saw, jigsaw and probably
some other stuff if were to dig deeply enough. The handtools are in the
regular rotation of everything else with virtually none having been
broken altho the internals of the ratchet did finally expire.

In those days (mid-60s thru early/mid-70s) Mr Penney himself was still
around and until he passed, there were no credit cards and payday was in
the little brown envelope stuffed with $2 bills and change; no checks.

He was a remarkable gentleman; she had worked in the store in hometown
parttime during HS and the couple of years between my graduation and
starting college before she also began school and transferred stores to
continue working. Mr Penney visited the latter store that year and
remembered having meeting her in the hometown store some two years prior
to that...to the point that he actually named the other store. He was
about 90 at the time.

--