My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?


FWIW the Pex heavy duty flexible line is a great solution. Hide it
behind a mop board, etc and don't bust up the concrete

On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not good for hot water.

Dan

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...

--
Snag



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On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:56:33 AM UTC-4, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?


FWIW the Pex heavy duty flexible line is a great solution. Hide it
behind a mop board, etc and don't bust up the concrete

+1 for Pex, I used some to re-plumb hot water lines in the garage.
Much cheaper than copper.

George H.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial portion
of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going to use
Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

No. PVC cis not rated for hot water. PEX might be a better option though.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"

wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper
line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig
up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use
PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at
around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...

That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to
120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

You have that problem because Canada is officially Metric.

On 6/28/2016 6:10 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...

PVC is acceptable up to 140F, which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at. CPVC is good up to 200F.

"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ho...ature_Laws.php

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

+1 for pex and avoiding the digging of the kitchen floor if it isn't
absolutely necessary.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

Proper copper will outlast your neighbor, as long as its not buried in
an alkali substrait (or an acidic one as well)


---
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wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up
a substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater
set at around 125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will
bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem getting water in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...

--
Snag



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On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:19:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

Terry..Id watch that carefuly. Ive seen more than one plumbing job
gone wrong over the years as the PVC got more and more brittle and
then they turned up the heat a bit.

Skyline must have run out of copper the day they did my
kitchen...there was a 12" stub of PVC between the copper supply line
and the flex feeder hose for the hot water in my kitchen sink. Worked
just like a fuse link it did

Thats the reason Im going to have to replace all my floors before
long.

Came home and found 2" of water throughout the house.

Not a fun gas bill either.....


---
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Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up
a substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use
PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater
set at around 125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will
bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem getting water in my weighing cup up to
120+ to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the
mixer with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise
. FWIW I just started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached
baking flour from the local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out
of the stuff we were buying at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just
today ... I make all our loaf bread , hamburger and hot dog buns ,
bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does the sweet stuff ...

"Mine" above refers to my bread machine ...

--
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On 6/28/2016 9:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:19:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

Terry..Id watch that carefuly. Ive seen more than one plumbing job
gone wrong over the years as the PVC got more and more brittle and
then they turned up the heat a bit.

Skyline must have run out of copper the day they did my
kitchen...there was a 12" stub of PVC between the copper supply line
and the flex feeder hose for the hot water in my kitchen sink. Worked
just like a fuse link it did

Thats the reason Im going to have to replace all my floors before
long.

Came home and found 2" of water throughout the house.

Not a fun gas bill either.....

LOL!

On 28-Jun-16 11:35 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:56:33 AM UTC-4, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?


FWIW the Pex heavy duty flexible line is a great solution. Hide it
behind a mop board, etc and don't bust up the concrete

+1 for Pex, I used some to re-plumb hot water lines in the garage.
Much cheaper than copper.

George H.


+2, Pex is cheaper, easier, quicker and better.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:12:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

Proper copper will outlast your neighbor, as long as its not buried in
an alkali substrait (or an acidic one as well)

I would suspect a corrosive environment under the slab since the initial
problem is a leak in an older copper line. PEX would be my choice and I
would not cut the floor if possible to avoid it.

--
Mr.E

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in :

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ho...ature_Laws.php

Like I said... utter nonsense. Quoting from that source:

"Water temperatures exceeding 124 degrees Fahrenheit (°F) (51 degrees Celsius (°C)) are
necessary to prevent the rapid growth of Legionella, the causative agent of Legionella
pneumonia (traditionally known as Legionnaires’ disease) in hot water systems."

I fully understand the need for scald prevention -- but that simply means that the water
delivered from the tap must not exceed 120 degrees F, which is easily achievable with anti-
scald mixing valves. The idea that the *water heater* must be limited to that temperature is
complete nonsense.

On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:04:26 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.

And both take a simple focus, which most people don't seem to have.
If you simply _pay_attention_ while doing either, the results can be
truly spectacular.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach

On 6/29/2016 9:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:04:26 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.

And both take a simple focus, which most people don't seem to have.
If you simply _pay_attention_ while doing either, the results can be
truly spectacular.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach


My step-mother refused to follow recipes thus she only made a few
palatable dishes.

Tom Gardner wrote:
On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the
mixer with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise
. FWIW I just started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached
baking flour from the local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out
of the stuff we were buying at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just
today ... I make all our loaf bread , hamburger and hot dog buns ,
bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.

You'd probably like my hamburger steak with mushroom gravy and my spaghetti
sauce ... those 2 are all mine . I sometimes follow a recipe - loosely - but
usually tweak it to our tastes .

--
Snag

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:31:02 -0700, Matt Singer wrote:

On 6/28/2016 9:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:19:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

Terry..Id watch that carefuly. Ive seen more than one plumbing job
gone wrong over the years as the PVC got more and more brittle and
then they turned up the heat a bit.

Skyline must have run out of copper the day they did my
kitchen...there was a 12" stub of PVC between the copper supply line
and the flex feeder hose for the hot water in my kitchen sink. Worked
just like a fuse link it did

Thats the reason Im going to have to replace all my floors before
long.

Came home and found 2" of water throughout the house.

Not a fun gas bill either.....

LOL!

Yeah, what a shock that the Wieber mansion came poorly built, and the Amazing Wieber waited for
failure instead of using his precognition to prevent the need for a new floor that he'll never be
able to afford.

On 6/29/2016 4:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in :

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ho...ature_Laws.php

Like I said... utter nonsense. Quoting from that source:

"Water temperatures exceeding 124 degrees Fahrenheit (°F) (51 degrees Celsius (°C)) are
necessary to prevent the rapid growth of Legionella, the causative agent of Legionella
pneumonia (traditionally known as Legionnaires’ disease) in hot water systems."

I fully understand the need for scald prevention -- but that simply means that the water
delivered from the tap must not exceed 120 degrees F, which is easily achievable with anti-
scald mixing valves. The idea that the *water heater* must be limited to that temperature is
complete nonsense.

Older houses don't have mixing valves (not that they couldn't be
retrofitted.) 140F at the heater is the temperature that will allow the
water at the tap to be 120F. Any hotter and there is a scalding risk at
the tap if there is no mixing valve.

On 6/29/2016 7:21 AM, Isn't Life Strange wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:31:02 -0700, Matt Singer wrote:

On 6/28/2016 9:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:19:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC ... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to 120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

Terry..Id watch that carefuly. Ive seen more than one plumbing job
gone wrong over the years as the PVC got more and more brittle and
then they turned up the heat a bit.

Skyline must have run out of copper the day they did my
kitchen...there was a 12" stub of PVC between the copper supply line
and the flex feeder hose for the hot water in my kitchen sink. Worked
just like a fuse link it did

Thats the reason Im going to have to replace all my floors before
long.

Came home and found 2" of water throughout the house.

Not a fun gas bill either.....

LOL!

Yeah, what a shock that the Wieber mansion came poorly built, and the Amazing Wieber waited for
failure instead of using his precognition to prevent the need for a new floor that he'll never be
able to afford.

I keep forgetting about his ability to see the future. I guess he must
have known long ago that he'd be a dole scrounger.

On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 5:52:14 AM UTC-4, axolotyl wrote:
On 28-Jun-16 11:35 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:56:33 AM UTC-4, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?


FWIW the Pex heavy duty flexible line is a great solution. Hide it
behind a mop board, etc and don't bust up the concrete

+1 for Pex, I used some to re-plumb hot water lines in the garage.
Much cheaper than copper.

George H.


+2, Pex is cheaper, easier, quicker and better.

Grin, My only issue with pex is that I bought a 100' roll of 1" stuff
and it was a pain trying to get it straight. Hot air gun and lots of
bending with arms... ughh. Maybe there's a better way to straighten it?

George H.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:47:12 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in :

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ho...ature_Laws.php

Like I said... utter nonsense. Quoting from that source:

"Water temperatures exceeding 124 degrees Fahrenheit (°F) (51 degrees Celsius (°C)) are
necessary to prevent the rapid growth of Legionella, the causative agent of Legionella
pneumonia (traditionally known as Legionnaires’ disease) in hot water systems."

I fully understand the need for scald prevention -- but that simply means that the water
delivered from the tap must not exceed 120 degrees F, which is easily achievable with anti-
scald mixing valves. The idea that the *water heater* must be limited to that temperature is
complete nonsense.

Mine is set at 140F IRRC


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On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:56:36 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:12:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?

Proper copper will outlast your neighbor, as long as its not buried in
an alkali substrait (or an acidic one as well)

I would suspect a corrosive environment under the slab since the initial
problem is a leak in an older copper line. PEX would be my choice and I
would not cut the floor if possible to avoid it.

+1


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"james g. keegan jr." wrote in news:KTQcz.572603$nP7.459923
@fx28.fr7:

On 6/29/2016 4:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in :

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"james g. keegan jr." wrote in
:

PVC is acceptable up to 140F,

True

which is the hottest setting a water
heater should be at.

Utter nonsense.

http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Ho...ature_Laws.php

Like I said... utter nonsense. Quoting from that source:

"Water temperatures exceeding 124 degrees Fahrenheit (°F) (51 degrees Celsius (°C))
are
necessary to prevent the rapid growth of Legionella, the causative agent of Legionella
pneumonia (traditionally known as Legionnaires’ disease) in hot water systems."

I fully understand the need for scald prevention -- but that simply means that the water
delivered from the tap must not exceed 120 degrees F, which is easily achievable with
anti-
scald mixing valves. The idea that the *water heater* must be limited to that temperature
is
complete nonsense.

Older houses don't have mixing valves (not that they couldn't be
retrofitted.) 140F at the heater is the temperature that will allow the
water at the tap to be 120F. Any hotter and there is a scalding risk at
the tap if there is no mixing valve.

So change the outdated faucets with anti-scald faucets -- or do what people managed to do
for generations: learn not to stick your hands in hot water. Limiting the water heater to 120F is
unnecessary and dangerous.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:22:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 5:52:14 AM UTC-4, axolotyl wrote:
On 28-Jun-16 11:35 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:56:33 AM UTC-4, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:46:17 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the manifold
in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line is in or just
bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up a substantial
portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded line. He's going
to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use PVC?


FWIW the Pex heavy duty flexible line is a great solution. Hide it
behind a mop board, etc and don't bust up the concrete

+1 for Pex, I used some to re-plumb hot water lines in the garage.
Much cheaper than copper.

George H.


+2, Pex is cheaper, easier, quicker and better.

Grin, My only issue with pex is that I bought a 100' roll of 1" stuff
and it was a pain trying to get it straight. Hot air gun and lots of
bending with arms... ughh. Maybe there's a better way to straighten it?

Cap one end, fill with hot water, lay out straight, drain to cool?
A hot air gun might work, too, but that could pose problems.
Maybe a hair dryer funnelled into the end...

I've only worked with it minimally so far, and the 1" was a beast to
arc. I had to use hot water just to get the ends to go on the
fittings, too. Once it's heated, it's much easier to work with. Of
course, I did the refit on the whole house water filter in the dead of
winter, just so I could experience cold PEX. :-\

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:23:06 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 9:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:04:26 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.

And both take a simple focus, which most people don't seem to have.
If you simply _pay_attention_ while doing either, the results can be
truly spectacular.


My step-mother refused to follow recipes thus she only made a few
palatable dishes.

Dad and I nearly throttled Mom every time she made a decent meatloaf.
99% were horrible, but those few she made well were never recipeed.
Her excuse was that she just used whatever was on hand, and she liked
variety.

She was a great cook overall, but those damned meatloaves really teed
us off. When I taste something great, I want the recipe, damnit!
Meatloaf can't often be called decent, let alone good.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:30:39 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"

wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper
line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig
up a
substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use
PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh
wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater set at
around
125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will bear watching ...

That's why I have a problem gettingwater in my weighing cup up to
120+
to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

You have that problem because Canada is officially Metric.

As a lab. tech. etc. I have worked in SI (Metric) since 1960.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:27:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper line
is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has to dig up
a substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace the corroded
line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be better to use
PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water heater
set at around 125° to avoid potential scalding . Still , it will
bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem getting water in my weighing cup up to
120+ to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the
mixer with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise
. FWIW I just started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached
baking flour from the local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out
of the stuff we were buying at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just
today ... I make all our loaf bread , hamburger and hot dog buns ,
bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does the sweet stuff ...

"Mine" above refers to my bread machine ...
Using 120 F water gives me a dough temp of about 94 which seems to
work OK.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:04:26 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 12:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the mixer
with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise . FWIW I just
started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached baking flour from the
local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out of the stuff we were buying
at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just today ... I make all our loaf bread
, hamburger and hot dog buns , bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does
the sweet stuff ...



Cooking is art, baking is science with a bit of art mixed in.
That's why I weigh everything except the yeast.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On 6/29/2016 10:13 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Dad and I nearly throttled Mom every time she made a decent meatloaf.
99% were horrible, but those few she made well were never recipeed.
Her excuse was that she just used whatever was on hand, and she liked
variety.

She was a great cook overall, but those damned meatloaves really teed
us off. When I taste something great, I want the recipe, damnit!
Meatloaf can't often be called decent, let alone good.

--
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge.
-- Marie Ebner von Eschenbach



Recipes are rules and my step mom was above following rules.

On 6/29/2016 9:39 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

You'd probably like my hamburger steak with mushroom gravy and my spaghetti
sauce ... those 2 are all mine . I sometimes follow a recipe - loosely - but
usually tweak it to our tastes .


See you next Tuesday?

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:27:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:10:46 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:47:20 AM UTC-4, Tom Gardner wrote:
My neighbor's got a leak in the hot water line running from the
manifold in her utility room to the kitchen sink. The copper
line is in or just bellow the concrete slab. The plumber has
to dig up a substantial portion of the kitchen floor to replace
the corroded line. He's going to use Copper. Wouldn't it be
better to use PVC?

If it is hot water, you might use CPVC. But not PVC. PVC is not
good for hot water.

Dan

I done screwed up then , all the plumbing in our new house is PVC
... oh wait , it's good for up to 140° and we keep the water
heater set at around 125° to avoid potential scalding . Still ,
it will bear watching ...
That's why I have a problem getting water in my weighing cup up to
120+ to use in my bread machine.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

My bread recipes all call for 105° to 110° , I usually preheat the
mixer with hot water . I only use mine for mixing and the first rise
. FWIW I just started recently using Seal of Minnesota unbleached
baking flour from the local Mennonite store . Beats the stuffin' out
of the stuff we were buying at Walmart . Picked up a 50 lb bag just
today ... I make all our loaf bread , hamburger and hot dog buns ,
bread sticks , pizza dough . The wife does the sweet stuff ...

"Mine" above refers to my bread machine ...
Using 120 F water gives me a dough temp of about 94 which seems to
work OK.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

My bread machine has the heating element in the bottom , don't know what
the dough temp actually is but it feels like around 100° or so when I pull
it after the first rise . I've been using the quick yeast , rise time is
about half of the programmed cycle .

--
Snag

Tom Gardner wrote:
On 6/29/2016 9:39 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

You'd probably like my hamburger steak with mushroom gravy and my
spaghetti sauce ... those 2 are all mine . I sometimes follow a
recipe - loosely - but usually tweak it to our tastes .


See you next Tuesday?

Darn , the wife has a night shift that day . I won't be cooking , probably
nuke some frozen burritos or something ... She's off on Thursday and I've
been wanting to try out the "power burner" on our new gas range with my wok
.. Pork chow mein sound good ? (note to self , pick up some fresh ginger
root)
--
Snag